What if the very thing keeping you from deep, meaningful friendships is the fear of being your true, imperfect self? 

This week Michael sits down with Jess Johnston for a chat about authenticity, friendship, and overcoming the fear of rejection. They dive into themes for her book, Perfect Is Boring (and It Tastes Like Kale): Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are, which offers a refreshing take on embracing who you are while finding your place in the world. 

Together, they explore the ups and downs of adult friendships, including letting down your guard to create real bonds. Jess’s relatable stories and practical tips make it easy to see how consistency, courage, and even a little awkwardness can lead to meaningful relationships.

If you’ve ever felt like perfection gets in the way of connection, this conversation is perfect for you.

Listen and Learn: 

• Jess’ off-grid childhood that sparked her love for writing and how those experiences shaped her perspective on connection
• The tension between performance and authenticity in your friendships and the courage to be rea
• What are the profound differences between belonging and fitting in?
• What does it really mean to be authentic?
• Awkward moments forge deeper connections—why embracing imperfection matters in your relationships and life
• The surprising power of intentionality and courage in building your adult friendships
• Why the fear of rejection is key to building meaningful friendships

Resources: 

• Book: Perfect Is Boring (and It Tastes Like Kale): Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593728246
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessmariejohnston/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessjohnstonwonderoak/
• Website: https://wonderoak.com/

About Jess Johnston

Jess Johnston lives in Southern California with her husband and four kids, who are the loves of her life. She is an Enneagram Seven and is enthusiastic about everything—but especially people, travel, and sauces. Jess’s writing makes you feel like you’re sitting cross-legged on her couch in your cozy pants while sharing hearts and drinking coffee. She is the co-author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller I’ll Be There (But I’ll Be Wearing Sweatpants) and has been a top contributor to publications such as HuffPost, Scary Mommy, and Motherly.

Related Episodes

• 385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations
• 360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson
• 374. Developing and Deepening Connections with Adam Dorsay
• 271. Cultivating Friendships in Adulthood Featuring Adam Dorsay

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Raising strong, confident girls in today’s world isn’t always easy, and this episode is here to help. Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein chats with Dr. Emily Edlynn about her book, Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World, and dives into how we can support girls as they face things like cultural pressures, objectification, and the subtle sexism that still lingers.

They share real, practical tips on helping girls think critically, find their voices, and navigate the media they’re exposed to. If you’re a parent, caregiver, or just someone who wants to make a positive difference, this conversation is full of valuable insights you won’t want to miss.

Listen and Learn: 

• Exploring the inspiration behind Sexism and Sensibility
• How societal norms shape women's voices and learn how Jo-Ann’s book helps shift the narrative
• Progress and pitfalls: The dualities of feminism and girls' empowerment in modern culture
• How beauty culture, Eurocentric ideals, and self-objectification steal women’s power and potential
• A parental guide to empowering your kids to combat self-objectification 
• The social dynamics that shape girls' voices and confidence, and why it's crucial for parents to intervene
• How can fathers empower their daughters to speak up while protecting them from societal biases?

Resources: 

• Book: Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593581162
• Website: https://www.joannfinkelstein.com/
• Substack: https://joannfinkelstein.substack.com/
• Connect on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@joannfinkelstein.phd
• Connect on X: https://x.com/finkeljo?lang=en
• Connect on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/100086974203277/
• Connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joannfinkelstein.phd/

About Jo-Ann Finkelstein:

Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD, is a clinical psychologist and the author of Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World. She was educated at Harvard University and Northwestern University and now maintains a private clinical practice. An expert blogger for Psychology Today, her work has been highlighted in The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Harvard Business Review, Oprah Daily, and CNN, among others. Her writing has appeared in The Washington Post, Ms., Your Teen, and other publications. Dr. Finkelstein serves on the Advisory Board for Stop Sexual Assault in Schools. She lives in Chicago, Illinois.

Related Episodes:

• 381. Reimagining Boyhood with Ruth Whippman
• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
• 337. Puberty Is Awkward with Cara Natterson and Vanessa Kroll Bennett
• 332. Middle School Superpowers with Phyllis Fagell
• 317. Growing Up in Public with Devorah Heitner
• 290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston

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Ever feel like your workplace is a mix of different worlds, with each generation bringing its own style, perspective, and expectations? For our second episode of the year, Dr. Michelle Quist Ryder, CEO of the American Psychological Foundation, joins us to talk about how Baby Boomers to Gen Z can navigate work together.

From remote work shifts to work-life balance expectations, you’ll come away with new knowledge on supporting each other across generations and creating healthier, more productive workplaces. If bridging generational gaps feels tricky, this episode offers practical tips to make it easier.

Listen and Learn: 

• Why generational gaps in values and tech create workplace challenges 
• Understanding generational anxiety and why adapting workplace culture unlocks success for everyone
• Are return-to-office mandates sparking workplace crises, and how can companies adapt post-pandemic?
• How self-determination theory can unlock happier workplaces and fix toxic job cultures
• Can bridging generational differences in work values create healthier, more adaptable workplaces?
• Does turning your passion into a career kill your creativity, and how can you avoid that trap?

Resources: 

● Website: https://ampsychfdn.org/about/apf-team/

● Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-quist-ryder

● Connect on X: https://twitter.com/mquistryder

About Michelle Quist Ryder

Dr. Michelle Quist Ryder is a social psychologist, research professional, and the CEO of the American Psychological Foundation, an organization that leverages the power of philanthropy to invest in research and advance psychological knowledge. Dr. Quist Ryder has an extensive background in human-centric organizational design, effective DEI practices, and leveraging psychology to solve critical societal issues.

Related Episodes:

• 176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky  
• 206. Fair Play Part 2 with Eve Rodsky
• 274. Quarterlife 
• 299. Leadership and the Changing Workplace with Chris Shipley
• 303. Both/And Thinking with Marianne Lewis
• 333. How Work Works with Michelle P. King
• 347. Job Changes & Career Pivots with Paula Brand
• 352.Twentysomethings with Meg Jay
• 338. ACT for Burnout 
• 357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson
• 374. Developing and Deepening Connections with Adam Dorsay

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Kick off the New Year with us in this special cohosted POTC episode! We've got a MAJOR announcement for 2025, and we're also chatting about the ups and downs of decision-making—all backed by psychology. We're also reflecting on our 2024 highlights, sharing what we're all hoping for in the new year, and talking about how community, flexibility, and staying true to your values play into making some of life’s tough choices. Plus, we’re giving you a sneak peek at what’s coming up on the podcast this year, including some awesome insights on relationship science and our personal goals for the future.

• Our exciting POTC New Year announcement
• Decision-making and understanding psychological flexibility
• How acceptance and commitment therapy can be applied when making decisions 
• Making values-driven decisions and the importance of community and connection
• Cohost 2024 reflections and highlights

About Emily Edlynn 

Emily (she/her) is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in pediatric health psychology who works in private practice with children, teens, and adults. She has a BA in English from Smith College, a PhD in clinical psychology from Loyola University Chicago, and completed postgraduate training at Stanford and Children’s Hospital Orange County. Emily spent almost ten years working in children’s hospitals before pivoting to private practice, which allowed her to start a writing career. Emily has written her blog, The Art and Science of Mom, since 2017 and a parenting advice column for Parents.com since 2019.

About Debbie Sorenson 

Debbie (she/her) is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Denver, Colorado with a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Anthropology from the University of Colorado, Boulder, and a Ph.D. in Psychology from Harvard University. She is author of the upcoming book ACT for Burnout: Recharge, Reconnect, and Transform Burnout with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and co-author of ACT Daily Journal: Get Unstuck and Live Fully with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. She loves living in Colorado, her home state, with her husband, two daughters, and dog.

About Jill Stoddard 

Jill Stoddard is passionate about sharing science-backed ideas from psychology to help people thrive. She is a psychologist, writer, TEDx speaker, award-winning teacher, peer-reviewed ACT trainer, and co-host of the popular Psychologists Off the Clock podcast. Dr. Stoddard is the author of three books: The Big Book of ACT Metaphors: A Practitioner’s Guide to Experiential Exercises and Metaphors in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy; Be Mighty: A Woman’s Guide to Liberation from Anxiety, Worry, and Stress Using Mindfulness and Acceptance; and Imposter No More: Overcome Self-doubt and Imposterism to Cultivate a Successful Career. Her writing has also appeared in Psychology Today, Scary Mommy, Thrive Global, The Good Men Project, and Mindful Return. She regularly appears on podcasts and as an expert source for various media outlets. She lives in Newburyport, MA with her husband, two kids, and disobedient French Bulldog.  

About Michael Herold 

Michael (he/him) is a confidence trainer and social skills coach, based in Vienna, Austria. He’s helping his clients overcome their social anxiety through Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and fun exposure exercises. (Though the jury is still out on whether they’re mostly fun for him). He is also a certified therapeutic game master, utilizing the Dungeons&Dragons tabletop roleplaying game to train communication, assertiveness, and teamwork with young adults. Or actually, anyone ready to roll some dice and battle goblins in a supportive group where players want to level up (pun!) their social skills. Michael is the head coach of the L.A. based company The Art of Charm, running their confidence-building program “Unstoppable” as well as workshops on small talk, storytelling, vulnerability, and more.

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As we turn the page to a new year, we’re excited to release this episode as a special gift to help you start 2025 on the right foot. Let’s face it—after the chaos and unpredictability of the past few years, many of us are craving positive change and looking for guidance on how to make it stick. Self-help has surged in popularity, but not all resources are created equal. That’s why we’re bringing back a conversation with Katy Milkman, author of How to Change, to cut through the noise and share strategies backed by science.

In this compassionate and inspiring episode, Katy and Jill dive into actionable tools to help you create lasting change, whether it’s breaking old habits or starting fresh. Katy’s expertise has guided organizations like Google, the U.S. Department of Defense, and Walmart, and now she’s sharing her wisdom with you.

Tune in to learn why making New Year’s resolutions isn’t just tradition—it can actually be a powerful tool for transformation when done right. Together, let’s set the stage for a brighter, more intentional year ahead.

Listen and Learn:

• Jill and Yael’s personal experiences with self-help books—what’s worked and what hasn’t
• Katy’s advice on which behaviors to focus on first for meaningful change
• Practical tips to help you tackle impulsive behaviors today
• How Katy’s book inspired real change in Jill’s daily life (her gums are a fan!)
• Why one-size-fits-all solutions fail and how to find the strategies that work for you
• The science behind readiness for change and why timing matters
• A fresh take on New Year’s resolutions and how to make them stick

Resources:

• Grab a copy of Katy’s book, How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You Are to Where You Want to Be
• Sign up for Katy’s newsletter here

About Katy Milkman:

Katy Milkman is the James G. Dinan Professor at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, host of Charles Schwab’s popular behavioral economics podcast Choiceology, and the former president of the international Society for Judgment and Decision Making. She is the co-founder and co-director of the Behavior Change for Good Initiative, a research center with the mission of advancing the science of lasting behavior change whose work is being chronicled by Freakonomics Radio. Over the course of her career, she has worked with or advised dozens of organizations on how to spur positive change, including Google, the U.S. Department of Defense, the American Red Cross, 24 Hour Fitness, Walmart and Morningstar. An award-winning scholar and teacher, Katy writes frequently about behavioral science for major media outlets such as The Washington Post, The New York Times, USA Today, and Scientific American. Her bestselling book How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You are to Where You Want to Be is now available. She earned her undergraduate degree from Princeton University (summa cum laude), where she studied Operations Research and American Studies and her PhD from Harvard University where, she studied Computer Science and Business.

Related Episodes:

• Episode 200. Growing Grit with Angela Duckworth 
• Episode 43. Willpower With Kelly McGonigal
• Episode 132. The Joy Of Movement With Kelly McGonigal
• Episode 34. Strengths, Goal Setting, and Grit with Alexis Karris Bachik 

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Parental stress has been declared a public health crisis by the U.S. Surgeon General—and it’s a conversation we all need to have. In this episode, Emily sits down with Debbie and our dear friend and guest Yael Schonbrun, a clinical psychologist and author of Work, Parent, Thrive, to explore what’s behind the overwhelming stress so many parents are feeling and, more importantly, what we can do about it.

We’re talking about all the things that pile up: money worries, the constant rush, and that pressure to “do it all.” Plus, we dive into what parental burnout actually is (and why it’s not your fault) and share simple, science-backed tips to make life a little easier.

This isn’t just about managing parental stress—it’s about showing up for yourself and your kids in a healthier, more sustainable way. If you’ve ever felt like you’re drowning in the demands of parenting, this episode is for you. It’s a conversation that matters—and one that can truly make a difference.

Listen and Learn: 

• What is parental stress, why it matters, and how we can lighten the load together?
• How can we turn overwhelming parental stress into something manageable?
• Parenting burnout is skyrocketing—what’s fueling it, and how can we reclaim balance in modern life?
• The pressures of modern parenting, how to find balance and break free from the stress.
• How working parents can shift from feeling torn between roles to using tension for enrichment
• What are the causes and consequences of parental burnout, and how driving awareness can help
• Why your well-being as a parent is crucial for your child's mental health, yet it's often overlooked—and learn how to break this unhelpful cycle
• How self-compassion and mindful check-ins can help ease your burnout and stress in daily life
• Supporting your child's autonomy to reduce parental burnout and strengthen your connections

Resources: 

• Yael’s website: https://www.yaelschonbrun.com/
• Connect with Yael on socials: 
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/yael-schonbrun-a26a5229/
• http://x.com/DrYaelSchonbrun
• http://instagram.com/yaelschonbrun/
• Our Substack Q&A, Is Parent Stress Breaking News? Three Clinical Psychologists Discuss the Surgeon General’s New Advisory: https://emilyedlynn.substack.com/p/is-parent-stress-breaking-news 

About Yael Schonbrun

Yael Schonbrun is a clinical psychologist, assistant professor at Brown University, author of Work, Parent, Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like too Much), past Psychologists Off the Clock co-host, and parent of three. In her research, private practice, and writing, Yael draws on science, philosophy, and clinical practices to share practices proven to foster healthier relationships between partners, parents and children, and between our most important life roles. Yael is a frequent contributor to The Washington Post and her writing on work, parenting, and relationships has appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Greater Good Science Center, Behavioral Scientist, Tricycle, among others.

Related Episodes: 

• 306. Screaming on the Inside: The Challenges of American Motherhood with Jessica Grose
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with the AMAZING Emily Edlynn
• 275. Work, Parent, Thrive with Yael Schonbrun
• 338. ACT for Burnout with Debbie! 
• 146. Parental Burnout with Lisa Coyne
• 382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health 
• 379. Toxic Striving with Paula Freedman-Diamond 
• https://offtheclockpsych.com/be-mighty/
• 121. Be Mighty: An Episode for Stressed Out, Worried Women with Jill Stoddard
• 267. You are Not a Horrible Parent with Carla Naumburg
• 211. Subtract with Leidy Klotz

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Life can feel so overwhelming sometimes, especially with the nonstop pace of the modern world. But what if you learned to embrace the messiness that comes with life and concentrated more on what really matters to you rather than attempting to control everything?

Building on the themes from his previous bestseller, Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, Michael is joined by returning guest Oliver Burkeman to break down his new book, Meditations for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts. 

Oliver and Michael dig into key ideas, such as the limits of control, the traps of overachievement and information overload, and how to face life challenges with a proactive, value-driven mindset. You'll love Oliver’s powerful metaphors, like navigating a kayak instead of steering a superyacht, which really brings home the beauty of going with life’s flow while staying grounded and intentional. This is an incredible resource that offers daily insights designed to inspire action, so join us for this empowering conversation and start your journey of embracing imperfection and living a more meaningful life. 

Listen and Learn: 

• Oliver’s philosophy behind 'Meditations for Mortals'
• The Evolution from 4,000 Weeks to Meditations for Mortals
• Embracing the concept of imperfectionism by being finite, taking action, letting go and showing up 
• Embracing life’s chaos with the kayak vs. superyacht metaphor
• The insecure overachiever and learning to break free from productivity guilt
• Dealing with the overflow of information and discerning what truly deserves your attention
• The paradox of life's endless problems and the freedom found in embracing them
• How to apply imperfectionism in your daily life 
• Balancing empathy with boundaries and why other people's problems aren’t yours to solve

Resources: 

• Oliver’s books: 

• Meditations for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts
• Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals

• Oliver’s Website: https://www.oliverburkeman.com/
• Connect with Oliver on X: @oliverburkeman

About Oliver Burkeman

Oliver Burkeman is the author of the Sunday Times bestselling Four Thousand Weeks and The Antidote, and for many years wrote a popular weekly column on psychology for the Guardian, 'This Column Will Change Your Life'. His work has also appeared in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Psychologies, and New Philosopher.

Related Episodes

242. Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management with Oliver Burkeman

• 257. The Gift of Being Ordinary with Ron Siegel
• 321. Imposter No More with Jill Stoddard

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What if we started seeing grief as a form of trauma—could it help us make sense of the confusing ways our mind and body react to loss?

In this conversation, Debbie sits down with Meghan Riordan Jarvis, a psychotherapist who’s spent her life helping people navigate the heartbreak of loss. She’s here to talk about her new book, Can Anyone Tell Me? Essential Questions About Grief and Loss, and to share her personal and research-based wisdom on this tender subject.

We look into the messy, complicated emotions that grief can bring—like anger, guilt, regret, and anxiety—and Megan offers simple, meaningful ways to cope. We also tackle the bigger picture: why we need more honest conversations about death and how we can show up better for each other in times of loss.

We hope you’ll join us for this meaningful conversation that might just give you a little clarity, hope, and comfort wherever you, or even the loved ones you are supporting, are on your grief journey. 

Listen and Learn: 

• Why grief education is key to feeling less alone, less afraid, and truly understood
• How we can reconnect in the face of profound loss
• Loss, grief, and mourning: uncovering the nuanced definitions and how they shape our healing journeys
• How Meghan’s two very contrasting losses shaped her approach to grief and healing
• The varying emotions of grief and why anger and anxiety might be more common than expected
• The shifting waves of loss, unexpected triggers, and lasting connections
• The idea of signs from loved ones
• Could the signs we receive from loved ones beyond death be more than just coincidence?

Resources: 

• Can Anyone Tell Me?: Essential Questions about Grief and Loss: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781649632593
• Meghan’s Website: https://meghanriordanjarvis.com/
• Connect with Meghan on: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghan-riordan-jarvis-ma-licsw-071051142

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/griefismysidehustle/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meghan.riordan.jarvis/?hl=en

Books Meghan mentioned in the episode: 

• The Grieving Brain: The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss by Mary-Frances O’Connor: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780062946249
• How Emotions Are Made, by Lisa Feldman Barrett: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781328915436
• Permission to Feel by Marc Brackett: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250212832
• Anxiety: The Missing Stage of Grief: A Revolutionary Approach to Understanding and Healing the Impact of Loss by Claire Bidwell Smith: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780738234786
• Grief Works: Stories of Life, Death, and Surviving (A Practical Guide to Grief and Loss) by Julia Samuel: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781501181542 

About Meghan Riordan Jarvis

Meghan Riordan Jarvis, MA, LCSW, is a podcast host, TEDx speaker, and trauma-trained psychotherapist specializing in grief and loss. With 20 years of experience, she speaks on the importance of understanding grief and supporting grievers. Meghan hosts the popular blog and podcast Grief Is My Side Hustle and offers a free writing workshop, Grief Mates. She is founder of the Grief Mentor Method: Six Core Concepts to Creating a Personalized Grief Process and is the author of End of the Hour, a memoir on trauma, loss, and healing. Her new book is called Can Anyone Tell Me? Essential Questions about Grief and Loss. 

Related episodes: 

• 117. Bearing Unbearable Loss: A conversation About Grief with Joanne Cacciatore
• 356. Navigating the Challenges of Caregiving with Allison Applebaum
• 354. A Family Guide to Dementia with Brent Forester
• 183. Permission to Feel: Emotional Intelligence with Marc Brackett
• 309. The Language of Emotions with Karla McLaren
• 216. Managing Anger and Irritability, Featuring Russell Kolts
• 320. Anger and Forgiveness with Robyn Walser
• 341. Self-Forgiveness with Grant Dewar
• 291. Finding Freedom From Regret with Robert Leahy 
• 118. Moral Injury and Shame with Lauren Borges and Jacob Farnsworth

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How can you begin to heal from complex PTSD? 

In this episode, Jill sits down with Stephanie Foo to explore her memoir, What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma, a deeply personal account of her healing journey through complex PTSD (CPTSD). Stephanie shares what it’s like to carry the weight of complex trauma, offering insights into how you can begin to heal too.

Through her story and experience, you’ll learn how CPTSD differs from PTSD and why understanding those differences can help you (or someone you love) feel less alone. Stephanie opens up about her therapy journey—EMDR, yoga, and meditation—and how relationships and community became her anchors in the storm.

Whether you’re a therapist, someone walking your own healing path, or supporting a loved one, this conversation is full of wisdom and practical advice to inspire hope and compassion.

Listen and Learn: 

• Meet Stephanie and find out why she wrote What My Bones Know, a memoir about healing from complex trauma.
• Understand what makes CPTSD different from PTSD and how that knowledge can help you or someone you love.
• How writing and creativity can be powerful tools for processing trauma and finding meaning.
• The role of community, relationships, and support in recovering from trauma.
• The complexities of abusive relationships and how they shape the healing journey.
• Practical therapeutic methods like EMDR, yoga, and meditation, and why they worked for Stephanie.
• How social support can make therapy more effective and healing more sustainable.
• The importance of facing suicidal thoughts with connection and support from loved ones.
• How journalism and purpose helped Stephanie move forward after trauma.
• How to begin your own healing journey and the three key elements that helped Stephanie recover from complex trauma.
• How therapists can create compassionate, validating spaces for clients dealing with trauma.

Resources: 

• What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma
• Official Website: Stephanie Foo
• Facebook: Stephanie Foo on Facebook
• Twitter: @stephaniefoooo on Twitter
• Instagram: @foofoofoo on Instagram

About Stephanie Foo

Stephanie Foo is the NYT Bestselling author of What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma. She has written for Vox and The New York Times. She worked as a radio producer for This American Life and Snap Judgment, and her stories aired on Reply All, 99% Invisible, and Radiolab. A noted speaker and instructor, she has taught at Columbia University and has spoken at venues from the Sundance Film Festival to the Missouri Department of Mental Health.

Related Episodes:

• 271. Cultivating Friendships in Adulthood Featuring Adam Dorsay
• 309. The Language of Emotions with Karla McLaren
• 325. Unseen, Unheard, Undervalued with Janina Scarlet
• 345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock
• 355. What is EMDR with Jamie Marich
• 360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson
• 374. Developing and Deepening Connections with Adam Dorsay
• 376. The Art of Therapy with Michael Alcee

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In this very special roundtable episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, our cohosts Debbie Sorenson and Emily Edlynn gather a panel of experts—including Tracy Dennis-Tiwary, Ellen Galinsky, and Devorah Heitner—to discuss an issue many parents face today: the impact of smartphones and social media on children’s mental health. 

Bringing their unique perspectives together, they look at the often-alarmist messages surrounding technology use in youth, offering a balanced and hopeful perspective rooted in evidence-based science and field and personal experience. 

Some of the key topics they talk about include addressing parental stress around technology, shifting from rigid monitoring to supportive mentoring, and how cultivating digital literacy and independence in our children. 

Please tune in for thoughtful, evidence-based strategies that prioritize your children’s well-being and growth and reassure you that healthy digital citizenship is within reach without having to resort to fear-based tactics. 

Listen and Learn:

• Meet the experts - Emily Edlynn, Tracy Dennis-Tiwary, Ellen Galinsky, and Devorah Heitner
• What are the effects of alarmist tech narratives?
• How do extreme views impact youth mental health?
• Lessons from public health campaigns on tech use
• Parents and community roles in digital literacy: How can we work together?
• Navigating the pressures of intensive parenting around tech
• Understanding the complex link between tech and mental health
• What science really says about technology’s impact on kids
• Recognizing data cherry-picking in tech research
• Teen suicide and the importance of careful data interpretation
• Key findings from the National Academy on social media
• How do teens really feel about tech?
• Harnessing positive peer influence on tech habits
• The critical role of sleep in teen well-being
• School tech policies: What can parents do?
• Ways to involve kids in creating tech solutions
• How fear-based messaging affects kids
• Parental roles: Monitoring vs. mentoring
• Building executive function skills through balanced tech use

Resources: 

• Tracy’s New York Times review of The Anxious Generation: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/books/review/jonathan-haidt-the-anxious-generation.htm
• Devorah’s Newsweek article: https://www.newsweek.com/everyone-wants-save-children-social-media-what-about-rest-us-opinion-1922435 
• Emily’s debate with Jonathan Haidt: 
• You can watch it in its entirety here or this clip on YouTube.
• And you can follow the story of her participation in the debate on her Substack newsletter here https://emilyedlynn.substack.com/p/david-meet-goliath and here https://emilyedlynn.substack.com/p/sextortionist-rings-and-other-fear 
• The Surgeon General’s advisory on Parental stress: https://www.hhs.gov/surgeongeneral/priorities/parents/index.html 
• A commentary by Emily, Debbie, and Yael on the advisory: https://emilyedlynn.substack.com/p/is-parent-stress-breaking-news 

About our panelists: 

• Tracy A. Dennis-Tiwary, Ph.D. is a professor of psychology and neuroscience and Director of the Emotion Regulation Lab at Hunter College.
• Ellen Galinsky is President of Families and Work Institute and the elected President of the Work and Family Researchers Network.
• Devorah Heitner, PhD is the author of Growing Up in Public: Coming of Age in a Digital World and Screenwise: Helping Kids Thrive and Survive in the Digital World.
• Emily Edlynn, PhD is a psychologist and the author of Autonomy-Supportive Parenting: Reduce Parental Burnout and Raise Competent, Confident Children and the emotions journal for kids, In Your Feels. And of course you all know her as a cohost of Psychologists Off the Clock. 

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We have an insightful discussion with Ruth Whippman this week, who urges us to rethink masculinity and nurture boys in a way that honors their mental health and emotional depth. A mother of three and the insightful author of Boy Mom: Reimagining Boyhood in the Age of Impossible Masculinity, Ruth brings a personal and societal viewpoint to the intense pressures that often shape modern masculinity. 

She sheds light on the cultural forces that define "being a man" and shares her journey in challenging these norms. 

We also learn about Ruth’s experiences as a mother, how society's expectations affect boys from an early age, and the importance of fostering boys' emotional development and accepting their complete human complexity. 

We hope you join us for this compassionate and in-depth conversation and broaden your understanding of how we can change how we see and raise boys today. 

Listen and Learn: 

• The impossible expectations facing boys and men today—how do they find their way forward?
• How Ruth, a mother of three boys navigated feminism, fear, and future masculinity in a conflicted cultural moment 
• Are we burdening boys with blame from the past?
• The science behind why boys need more nurture early on but often receive less and how it creates an emotional gap with lasting effects
• How early affection shapes moral growth and how gender impacts this
• Are boys being deprived of friendship lessons that promote emotional depth and connection because of the way they are portrayed in the media?
• Precarious masculinity: how shifting ideals are creating a public health crisis for boys and men
• Hyperconnection and disconnection and how masculinity ties into mental health risks for boys
• The dark online world of 'incels,' where toxic masculinity and vulnerability collide in horrific ways
• The need to rethink how we approach boys' emotional growth beyond "masculinity" norms

Resources: 

• Boymom, Reimagining Boyhood in the Age of Impossible Masculinity
• Website: https://www.ruthwhippman.com/
• Substack: https://substack.com/@ruthwhippman

Social Media: 

• https://www.instagram.com/ruthwhippman/
• https://twitter.com/ruthwhippman
• https://www.facebook.com/RuthWhippman/

About:  

Ruth Whippman is an author, journalist and cultural critic and the mother of three boys. A former BBC documentary director, she has written for the New York Times, Time magazine, The Guardian, HuffPost, and other publications. She is the author of the book America the Anxious, which was a New York Post Best Book of the Year and a New York Times Editors’ Choice and Paperback Row pick. Her latest book is Boymom, Reimagining Boyhood in the Age of Impossible Masculinity.

Related Episodes:

• 374. Developing and Deepening Connections with Adam Dorsay
• 361. Dudes and Dads: Men’s Mental Health with Danny Singley
• 360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson
• 331. Seeing Others: The Importance of Being Recognized and Valued with Michele Lamont
• 325. Unseen, Unheard, Undervalued with Janina Scarlet
• 304. The Emotional Lives of Teenagers with Lisa Damour

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