This week on Upstream, Nathan Labenz of The Cognitive Revolution podcast and Brian Chau, a machine learning engineer who recently founded the Alliance for the Future, talk about Brian's efforts in Washington, D.C. to influence AI policy based on informed AI optimism. After their conversation, Nathan and Erik chat about the AI landscape. Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

--

SPONSORS: BEEHIIV | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝 Head to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns

Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more,

Spotify

Apple

--

Timestamps

(00:00) Intro

(00:42) Unpacking AI Optimism and Policy Perspectives

(01:22) Exploring the Breadth of AI and Its Economic Implications

(05:23) Debunking AI Doomsday Predictions

(14:56) Sponsors: BeeHiiv | Squad

(25:53) Navigating the Near-Term AI Landscape and Government Modernization

(41:30) Exploring AI Regulation and Executive Orders

(43:55) The Impact of AI on Startups and Economic Viability

(45:36) AI Development and Regulatory Challenges

(48:40) The Debate on AI Accountability and Regulation

(59:02) Open Sourcing AI Models: Risks and Regulations

(1:07:06) The Future of AI: Ethical, Social, and Regulatory Considerations

(1:14:41) Reflections on AI Safety and the Path Forward

--

Alliance for the Future: https://www.affuture.org/

Brian's article on research progress in AI: https://www.affuture.org/research/3-diminishing/

--

X / TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/psychosort (Brian)

https://twitter.com/labenz (Nathan)

https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg (Erik)

https://twitter.com/Upstream__Pod (Upstream)

https://twitter.com/TurpentineMedia (Turpentine)

--

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

This week on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode from Turpentine’s show Live Players with Samo Burja. Erik and Samo discuss China’s universities and the future of China’s elites. Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

--

SPONSORS: BEEHIIV | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns

Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more,

Spotify

Apple

--

X / TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/SamoBurja (Samo)

https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg (Erik)

https://twitter.com/Upstream__Pod (Upstream)

https://twitter.com/TurpentineMedia (Turpentine)

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) - Episode Preview

(00:00:57) - Universities as an example of US-China parallel evolution

(00:02:53) - Academia during The Cultural Revolution

(00:04:00) - The elite Chinese universities

(00:06:00) - Signaling theory of education

(00:06:30) - What the increase in educated leaders means for China’s ruling class

(00:07:52) - China as America’s mirror

(00:08:30) - China’s “woke”

(00:11:29) - How Xi wants China to not fail in the same way the Soviets did

(00:12:50) - Crackdown on university students

(00:14:46) - Sponsor: Squad | Turpentine

(00:15:00) - Rise of student activism in the US

(00:19:05) - The translation of regional/ethnic inequalities into ideological ones

(00:22:30) - The political ideological paradox generates an opportunity to organize young people

(00:24:30) - Role of gender in divergent politics and the East Asian “woke”

(00:27:12) - Chinese feminism

(00:34:58) - The formation of elites in US and China

(00:36:40) - Materialist focused education in China vs legal focused education in US

(00:39:47) - Printing university degrees is like printing money by devaluing degrees

(00:40:19) - Fight over Harvard Extension School

(00:42:20) - Will American universities have as much power in the next 10 years as they do now?

(00:46:05) - What positive and negative changes will China see in the near future?

(00:47:00) - Silicon Valley in China

(00:49:09) - The shift in leadership from businessmen to academia in China

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

This episode was initially recorded before a live audience in 2018. Erik talks with Naval Ravikant and Balaji Srinivasan about the history of money and centralization and why crypto has the potential to fulfill the promise of the internet. Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Squad:💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns

Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more,

Spotify

Apple

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:30) Decentralization and Blockchain: A Deep Dive with Naval Ravikant and Balaji Srinivasan

(06:22) Personal Journeys into the World of Cryptocurrency

(08:27) Debating Bitcoin vs. Blockchain: Perspectives and Predictions

(12:22) Sponsors: Squad | Turpentine

(14:33) The Social and Economic Implications of Blockchain Technology

(19:55) Blockchain Beyond Money: Envisioning Future Applications

(22:43) Crypto as a Social Phenomenon: Tribalism and Governance

(28:10) Envisioning a Decentralized Future: Microeconomics and Global Impact

(31:36) The Irony of Missing Out: Venture Capitalists and Karma

(36:02) The Global Impact of Blockchain on Identity and Ownership

(36:54) Navigating Regulations in a Decentralized Economy

(38:29)The Role of Crypto in Redefining Wealth Distribution

(40:05) Balaji and Naval's Vision

(46:48) What Do Failure Models Look Like?

(51:43) How Blockchain Can Provide New Career Opportunities, Not Just In Silicon Valley

(53:33) The Potential and Challenges of Emerging Technologies

(54:55) Identity in a Blockchain World

(58:23) On Blockchain Intersecting With Other Emerging Technologies

(59:57) What Types Of Players Are Going To Be The Big Winners And Losers?

(1:00:56) Empowering the Next Generation of Builders

(1:04:04) Visionary Ideas for Changing the World

(1:05:41) Wrap

--

X / TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/naval (Naval)

https://twitter.com/balajis (Balaji)

https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg (Erik)

https://twitter.com/Upstream__Pod (Upstream)

https://twitter.com/TurpentineMedia (Turpentine)

--

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

Music license: OYOCYNQ0XUH22PB8

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Nathan Labenz and Noah Smith for a deep dive on how AI will impact job markets, the social contract, and the role of the government. Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

SPONSORS: BEEHIIV | SQUAD | BRAVE

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Squad:💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

Brave: Get first-party targeting with Brave’s private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns

Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more,

Spotify

Apple

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:50) AI and the Future of Employment

(03:57) The Intersection of AI, Robotics, and Biotech

(05:00) Economic Disruption

(06:40) Future of Jobs in an AI-Dominated World

(08:27) AI's Impact on Economy

(10:34) Pessimism Surrounding AI's Economic Impact

(12:17) Comparative Advantage in the AI Era

(13:50) AI Replacing Human Jobs

(19:03) Sponsor: Squad | Brave

(21:24) New Social Contract in the AI Era

(34:38) Human Wages in an AI-Dominated Economy

(39:36) Impact of AI on Job Market

(41:45) Fear of AI Taking Over Human Jobs

(47:51) Role of Government in AI Development

(50:09) Potential Risks and Benefits of AI

(53:15) Future of AI and Its Social Impact

(58:38) Fear of Totalitarian States and AI

(01:03:13) The Need for a Positive Vision for AI

(01:11:03) Wrap up

--

X / TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/noahsmith (Noah)

https://twitter.com/Labenz (Nathan)

https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg (Erik)

https://twitter.com/Upstream__Pod (Upstream)

https://twitter.com/TurpentineMedia (Turpentine)

--

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by David Friedman for a deep dive on anarcho-capitalism, utilitarianism, and more. To get Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns

Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more,

Spotify

Apple

-

Autopilot explores the adoption and rollout of AI in the industries that drive the economy and the dynamic founders bringing rapid change to slow-moving industries. From law, to hardware, to aviation, Will Summerlin interviews founders backed by Benchmark, Greylock, and more to learn how they're automating at the frontiers in entrenched industries.

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6YQZkKHN7EP2yWedAvSxBC?si=18377c69a2804333

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/autopilot-with-will-summerlin/id1738163836

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave’s private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(00:46) The Friedman Family's Intellectual Lineage

(03:18) Market Failures and Government Intervention

(06:11) Privatizating Everything

(09:33) The Mechanics of Anarcho-Capitalism

(12:47) Why David Isn't a Utilitarianism

(16:33) Midroll: Brave | Turpentine

(18:19) David's Moral Framework

(23:36) Is Global Coordination Possible?

(30:46) Privatizing Military and National Defense

(32:54) Addressing Poverty in an Anarcho-Capitalist World

(35:40) Competitive Dictatorship

(40:54) Historical Precedents for Private Law

(42:31) The Inefficiency of Governments

(44:06) Coordination under Decentralization vs Centralization & Surveillance Capitalism

(55:07) Law & Punishment under Anarcho-Capitalism

(58:28) The Problems with Restorative Justice

(01:07:31) Addressing Common Criticisms of Market Systems

(01:14:41) Exploring the Moral Case for Economic Growth

(01:16:26) Existential Risks from Global Warming, AI, Nanotech, and Biotech

(01:18:49) The Market's Short-Term vs. Long-Term Dilemma

(01:20:13) Utilitarian Thought Experiment

(01:22:03) Income Sharing Agreements

(01:26:20) Equality of Opportunity vs. Outcome

(01:30:15) Why Do We Care about Equality?

(01:47:40) Anarcho-Capitalism and Crypto

(01:51:04) David's Legacy

--

LINKS:

David's Website: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

--

X / TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg (Erik)

https://twitter.com/Upstream__Pod (Upstream)

https://twitter.com/TurpentineMedia (Turpentine)

--

Upstream is a production from Turpentine

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Eul Jose Lacierda

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

In this special roundtable episode, Erik Torenberg is joined by Brad Hargreaves (the founder of Common, co-founder of General Assembly, and writer of Thesis Driven) and Noah Smith (podcast host, economist and writer of Noahpinion). They discuss the future of real estate and housing in America, the impact of regulations, and the potential of new cities.

📖 RECOMMENDED PODCAST:

Econ 102 is Noah and Erik's podcast diving into the news, business, culture and society from the lens of economics. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/econ-102-with-noah-smith-and-erik-torenberg/id1696419056

Thesis Driven is a podcast hosted by Brad Hargreaves features conversations with the leading voices at the intersection of real estate, cities, innovation, and the built world. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thesis-driven-leader-series/id1724813949

**These shows are produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

_

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox.  🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave’s private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

–

Links:

Noahpinion’s https://www.noahpinion.blog

Thesis Driven https://www.thesisdriven.com/

–

X / TWITTER:

@bhargreaves (Brad)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@noahpinion (Noah)

@TurpentineMedia (Turpentine)

–

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro

(00:28) Understanding Real Estate Economics

(01:34) Role of Technology in Real Estate

(02:22) 2008 Financial Crisis and Real Estate

(06:31) Role of Banks in Real Estate

(10:14) Future of Real Estate and Housing

(16:01) Sponsor: Brave | Turpentine

(17:44) Impact of Regulations

(24:51) Real Estate Architecture’s Evolution

(29:48) Role of Developers in Real Estate

(40:21) Challenges of Building State Capacity

(51:53) Potential of New Cities

(01:00:33) Success of New Urbanist Towns

(01:01:53) Wrap

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Alex Blania, who, with Sam Altman, co-founded Tools for Humanity, the organizarion behind Worldcoin. Erik and Alex go deep on Worldcoin, AGI, and other future tech. To get Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Sourcery by Molly O'Shea

Sourcery by Molly O’Shea brings the conversations founders and investors have behind closed doors into the light. Subscribe for upcoming episodes with: Delian Asparouhov of Founders Fund and Varda Space, and Chris Power of Hadrian.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Ni3Tese9CtZa3oxpCjgTg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SourceryVC

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox.  🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave’s private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

LINKS:

Worldcoin: https://worldcoin.org/

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:16) WorldCoin: From AI to Cryptocurrency

(06:02) Solving the Proof of Identity Problem

(10:11) The Orb: A Revolutionary Biometric Device for WorldCoin

(12:53) Sponsor - Brave |

(13:58) Turpentine Ad

(14:36) Addressing Privacy Concerns and Misunderstandings of WorldCoin

(15:50) WorldCoin as the Largest Financial Network

(17:06) Navigating Controversies and the Future of WorldCoin

(20:05) On Building WorldCoin

(25:56) Engaging with Governments and the Global Landscape

(28:29) Safeguarding WorldCoin and the Influence of Vitalik Buterin

(31:10) Partnerships, Lessons from Sam Altman, and AGI's Future

(38:06) Exploring Other Game-Changing Technologies

(42:14) WrapX / TWITTER:

@alexblania (Alex)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@upstream__pod

@turpentinemedia

--

Upstream is a production from Turpentine

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Eul Jose Lacierda

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Igor Kurganov, poker player and founder of Raising for Effective Giving. They discuss similarities between poker and Effective Altruism, the successes and failures of EA, and where EA should go next. To get Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Investing City

The Investing City Podcast helps you improve at investing, business, and life: learn from some of the brightest minds in business such as the CEO of Walmart, Morgan Housel, or billion-dollar fund managers.

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7tV2EIrKXXUPxO0jpUaLlX

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-investing-city-podcast/id1448079153

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox.  🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave’s private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

LINKS

Raising for Effective Giving: https://reg-charity.org/

--

X / TWITTER:

@IgorKurganov (Igor)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@upstream__pod

@turpentinemedia

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:01) Math, Poker and Igor’s Journey into Effective Altruism

(03:40) The Evolution of Effective Altruism

(05:15) Critiques and Challenges of Effective Altruism

(08:00) Limitations and Misapplications of Effective Altruism

(10:42) Effective Altruism’s Approach to AI Safety and Pandemic Risks

(12:54) Igor on Criticisms and Misunderstandings of EA

(17:17) Sponsor - Brave

(18:19) The Balance between Centralization and Decentralization in Effective Altruism

(24:41) Utilizing Philanthropy to Address Market Failure

(26:41) Critique of Utilitarianism

(29:29) The Influence of Politics in EA

(40:13) Appreciating Effective Altruism

(42:31) Will EA be Here to Stay?

(47:24) Wrap

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Eul Jose Lacierda

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Liron Shapira to discuss the case against further AI development, why Effective Altruism doesn’t deserve its reputation, and what is misunderstood about nuclear weapons. Upstream is sponsored by Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: History 102 with WhatifAltHistEvery week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more. Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-102-with-whatifalthists-rudyard-lynch-and/id1730633913

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj

--

We’re hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik’s personal team on other projects he’s incubating. He’s hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: https://eriktorenberg.com.

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE | SQUAD

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox.  🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave’s private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

💥 Access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to choosesquad.com and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

--

LINKS

Pause AI: https://pauseai.info/

--

X / TWITTER:

@liron (Liron)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@upstream__pod

@turpentinemedia

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro and Liron's Background

(01:08) Liron's Thoughts on the e/acc Perspective

(03:59) Why Liron Doesn't Want AI to Take Over the World

(06:02) AI and the Future of Humanity

(10:40) AI is An Existential Threat to Humanity

(14:58) On Robin Hanson's Grabby Aliens Theory

(17:22) Sponsor - Brave

(18:20) AI as an Existential Threat: A Debate

(23:01) AI and the Potential for Global Coordination

(27:03) Liron's Reaction on Vitalik Buterin's Perspective on AI and the Future

(31:16) Power Balance in Warfare: Defense vs Offense

(32:20) Nuclear Proliferation in Modern Society

(38:19) Why There's a Need for a Pause in AI Development

(43:57) Is There Evidence of AI Being Bad?

(44:57) Liron On George Hotz's Perspective

(49:17) Timeframe Between Extinction

(50:53) Humans Are Like Housecats Or White Blood Cells

(53:11) The Doomer Argument

(01:00:00) The Role of Effective Altruism in Society

(01:03:12) Wrap

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Eul Jose Lacierda

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Rob Henderson, psychologist and author of the newly released Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class. They discuss dating, cancel culture, luxury beliefs, and more.

Upstream is sponsored by Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

---

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: History 102 with WhatifAltHist

Every week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more.

Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-102-with-whatifalthists-rudyard-lynch-and/id1730633913

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj

---

We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: https://eriktorenberg.com.

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox.  🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave's private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

LINKS

Buy Rob's book: https://www.amazon.com/Troubled-Memoir-Foster-Family-Social/dp/1982168536

Rob's Newsletter: https://www.robkhenderson.com/

--

X / TWITTER:

@robkhenderson (Rob)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@upstream__pod

@turpentinemedia

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:03) Rob Henderson's unlikely journey from foster care to academia

(04:00) The importance of childhood stability

(07:48) Upward mobility is not the ultimate goal

(11:43) Sponsor | Brave

(12:46) How to improve discussions around family and class

(18:47) Understanding luxury beliefs

(25:06) Why do dumb ideas capture smart people?

(31:15) The impact of dating apps on relationships

(38:01) How technology will affect relationships and gender dynamics

(58:07) The future of higher education

(01:10:03) How to improve foster care

(01:12:50) Rob's time in the military

(01:18:57) Rob's future goals

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Michelle Poreh

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]

This week on Upstream, Erik is joined by Lyn Alden, an investment strategist known for her unique blend of engineering, tech, and finance expertise. They discuss her book Broken Money, macro trends, and her best advice in the face of an uncertain economic future. 

Upstream is sponsored by Brave: Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

---

RECOMMENDED PODCAST: History 102 with WhatifAltHist

Every week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more.

Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-102-with-whatifalthists-rudyard-lynch-and/id1730633913

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj

---

RELATED SHOW: 10x Capital Podcast

Check out our show The 10x Capital Podcast with David Weisburd, where David talks to the investors behind the investors: https://10xcapitalpodcast.com/

---

We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: https://eriktorenberg.com.

--

SPONSOR: BEEHIIV | BRAVE

Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox.  🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.

Get first-party targeting with Brave's private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign.

--

LINKS

Buy Lyn's book: https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Money-Financial-System-Failing/dp/B0CG8985FR

Lyn's website: https://www.lynalden.com/

--

X / TWITTER:

@LynAldenContact (Lyn)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)

@upstream__pod

@turpentinemedia

--

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:30) Lynn's book 'Broken Money'

(09:19) The rise and fall of monetary orders

(14:18) How technology affects money

(19:48) Sponsor | Brave

(20:51) The effects of a global reserve currency

(27:28) The future of the dollar

(34:09) Inflation and interest rates

(44:42) What are the interesting disagreements about Lyn's ideas?

(47:22) The implications of national debt

(51:34) What will the effects of Lyn's ideas be?

(56:50) Wrap

--

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

Producer: Sam Kaufman

Editor: Michelle Poreh

For guest or sponsorship inquiries please contact [email protected]