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Product Thinking

Melissa Perri

Successful product management isn’t just about training the product managers who work side by side with developers everyday to build better products. It’s about taking a step back, approaching the systems within organizations as a whole, and leveling up product leadership to improve these systems. This is the Product Thinking Podcast, where Melissa Perri will connect with industry leading experts in the product management space, AND answer your most pressing questions about everything product. Join us each week to level up your skillset and invest in yourself as a product leader.

  • 42 minutes 54 seconds
    Episode 198: The Cupcake Approach: Validating Product Concepts with PJ Linarducci
    This time on the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri is joined by P.J. Linarducci, Chief Product Officer at Thumbtack, to explore the complexities of product leadership in both large and small-scale organizations. P.J. shares insights from his journey, starting with his formative years at Meta and his transition to Thumbtack, where he embraced the role of leading the entire product organization. He delves into the significant mindset shift from being one of many leaders at a large company to owning full responsibility at a smaller, more agile company. P.J. also highlights the challenges of evolving Thumbtack from a marketplace model to a holistic home management platform, requiring new approaches to both product strategy and company culture. Tune in to learn how product managers can influence without authority.
    PJ explains how Thumbtack's product direction shifted from being a simple marketplace to a more comprehensive service aimed at helping homeowners navigate the complexities of managing their homes. He also explores the finicky challenge of balancing innovation (zero-to-one work) with optimizing and growing an established value proposition, sharing his insights on how product leaders can drive strategy and foster collaboration across teams without relying solely on authority.
    Tune in to hear PJ's take on leadership, influence, and how Thumbtack is transforming the home services industry, all while empowering small businesses and enhancing customer experiences.

    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 07:45 - Cultivating Influence Over Authority

    In discussing leadership dynamics, PJ emphasizes the importance of operating with influence rather than relying solely on authority. He cautions against the dangers of using positional power to drive decisions, as it can stifle open communication and feedback. Instead, he advocates for product managers to act as "organizers in chief," facilitating conversations among team members and synthesizing diverse perspectives into cohesive strategies. By encouraging collaborative decision-making, product managers can foster a culture where ideas are enhanced rather than simply followed, ensuring that the best solutions emerge from the collective input of the team.

    • 24:03 - The Cupcake MVP

    Here, PJ emphasizes the importance of focusing on core customer hypotheses when developing a minimum viable product (MVP). To do so, he brings in a cupcake analogy to illustrate that while an MVP must provide value, it doesn't need to be a complete version of the final product. The cupcake serves as a metaphor for distilling a product idea down to its essential components. PJ believes that product teams should prioritize validating the most critical hypotheses before building features, avoiding the comfort of easily built components like the pedestal for a singing monkey. By tackling the most challenging aspects of the product first, teams can ensure they are addressing essential user needs, rather than simply checking off boxes with features that may not contribute to the product's core value.
    • 26:08 - Understanding User Relationships: Beyond the Immediate Need

    PJ shares with Melissa some insights from his experience at Thumbtack, where they aimed to reduce user friction by fostering a deeper understanding of customers' needs. Instead of only asking for minimal information to facilitate immediate interactions, the team expanded their onboarding process to gather richer data about users' goals and aspirations for their homes. Surprisingly, users responded positively to this approach when they understood the value proposition behind sharing more information. This revelation illustrates that when users see clear benefits, they are willing to provide sensitive data, challenging the common belief that asking for too much information creates friction.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    20 November 2024, 5:00 am
  • 42 minutes 15 seconds
    Episode 197: Aligning Product Development with Business Objectives in Healthcare with BJ Boyle
    In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri sits down with BJ Boyle, Chief Product Officer at PointClickCare, to explore the dynamic landscape of product management in the health tech industry.

    One area in which BJ strikes a chord is how fostering strong relationships with the executive team can drive success, highlighting the need for product managers to connect deeply with their users. With more than two decades worth of experience in the health tech space, BJ has a lot of insights to share from his personal journey, including lessons learned during his transition to the C-suite

    He delves into the unique challenges of managing product strategy in a rapidly evolving industry, emphasizing the importance of aligning product development with market needs and regulatory changes. He also makes clear the importance of balancing domain expertise with product management acumen and engineering understanding, and the value of cross-functional collaboration in building effective product teams. 

    Tune in to explore how PointClickCare is innovating within the healthcare sector and to gain practical advice for navigating the complexities of product management in health tech.

    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 07:45 - Bridging Product Teams with Real-World Market Insights

    BJ discusses the critical importance of exposing product managers to real-world market scenarios, especially in the complex world of health tech, where user personas like nurses and doctors don't operate in the same way as everyday consumers. He explains that getting product managers out into the field—shadowing nurses or interacting with real users—is key to driving better product outcomes. Through customer advisory boards, partnerships, and the work of a growing UX research team, PointClickCare is ensuring its product managers are connected with the actual environments their products serve. This approach helps them better understand user pain points and needs, even in highly regulated industries like healthcare.
    • 22:15 - Balancing Subject Matter Expertise with Product Skills

    Here, BJ highlights the challenge of balancing domain expertise with product management skills in the healthcare industry. He explains that early in his career, many product managers came from user roles, like nurses or business managers, which resulted in strong domain knowledge but a lack of core product management capabilities. As a solution, BJ discusses the importance of blending product managers from various backgrounds, including those with classical product training and those with domain expertise. This mix allows teams to execute more efficiently and avoid the pitfalls of either too much backlog or not understanding the healthcare space enough to make informed decisions.
    • 39:53 - Embracing AI to Solve Staffing Challenges

    BJ expresses excitement about the potential of AI and technology to transform healthcare, especially in addressing staffing shortages. With AI-driven tools like predictive models and smart documentation, he sees an opportunity to alleviate administrative burdens on healthcare providers, allowing them to focus more on patient care. He discusses how the industry is evolving from simply meeting regulatory requirements to leveraging technology to improve staff efficiency and patient outcomes. He also shares his personal connection to healthcare, which fuels his passion for enhancing care transitions and eliminating outdated practices like relying on fax machines.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    13 November 2024, 5:00 am
  • 45 minutes 2 seconds
    Episode 196: The Affirm Card: Transforming Payment Flexibility with Vishal Kapoor
    In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Vishal Kapoor, Senior Vice President of Product at Affirm, joins Melissa Perri to dive into the intricacies of building and scaling products in the fintech space. Vishal shares his journey through 15+ years of product management. The episode offers deep insight into not just what Affirm is up to, but into the very bones of the culture that drives their product development.

    The conversation covers Affirm's strategic approach to launching its new Affirm card, emphasizing the importance of real-time feedback loops, data-driven decision-making, and prioritizing customer experience. Vishal also highlights how the company uses experimentation platforms to test new features with minimal lift for its merchant partners and explores the art of balancing long-term roadmaps with agile responses to customer needs.

    Melissa and Vishal also get into the important topic of how product managers can cultivate strong cross-functional partnerships, especially with legal and compliance teams, to navigate industry regulations while maintaining innovation. 

    Tune in to learn how Affirm is shaping the future of fintech and get practical advice for building adaptable product strategies in complex industries.
    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 12:18 - Iterative, Fast-Paced Product Culture at Affirm

    In discussing the go-no-go decision-making process, Vishal reveals Affirm’s product culture, which thrives on fast-paced iteration. The company introduced the digital card as a beta product, learned from its success, and evolved the offering into a physical card. This iterative approach ensures constant feedback loops with customers and allows the product to evolve quickly based on real-world data. Vishal stresses the importance of identifying the right problems and empowering teams to run at the solution space with speed and precision.

    • 23:54 - The Go-No-Go Process: Ensuring Readiness for Big Launches

    Here, Vishal describes the meticulous process Affirm follows before launching major products. Returning to the topic of the "go-no-go" meetings, Vishal explains this process in greater detail – these are meetings held before the launch of a major product. In them, all aspects of the product, from quality to customer support readiness, are evaluated against pre-established exit criteria. This process ensures that all necessary conditions are met before launch, even if it requires delays to maintain high customer experience standards.

    • 38:11 - Compliance as a Collaborative Partner, Not a Barrier

    When discussing the challenges of compliance in fintech, Vishal describes how Affirm integrates legal and compliance teams into the product development process. Rather than seeing these functions as roadblocks, Affirm treats them as collaborative partners. This proactive approach ensures that compliance considerations are factored into product decisions from the start, preventing delays and fostering innovation within regulatory boundaries.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    6 November 2024, 5:00 am
  • 49 minutes 58 seconds
    Episode 195: Sparking Joy in the Workplace with Robin Daniels
    Robin Daniels is on the latest episode of the Product Thinking Podcast to discuss how it’s possible to transform working cultures through the careful construction of a supportive community atmosphere. Robin, Chief Business and Product Officer at Zensai, explains to Melissa Perri how his remarkable journey through product management and marketing across leading tech companies like Salesforce and LinkedIn has led him to where he is today. 

    Robin has held leadership positions at renowned tech companies such as Salesforce, LinkedIn, Box, and Matterport and points out the necessity for modern leaders to understand the interconnectedness of product, sales, and marketing to drive effective go-to-market strategies.
    The pair also ponder the question of what sparks joy in a corporate setting, and they discuss how a weekly check-in system that promotes self-reflection among employees is a far more functional system than the outmoded annual performance review method of performance management.

    Robin’s insights serve as a rallying cry for leaders to embrace new ways of thinking about performance management so be sure to tune in now!

    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 08:03 - PLG and Removing Friction in Onboarding

    Towards the beginning of the episode, Robin highlights the importance of reducing friction at every step of the customer journey, especially in product-led growth (PLG) models. To illustrate the value of this, he shares the example of launching Salesforce Chatter's freemium model via a Super Bowl ad, where the challenge was to optimize signups for mobile devices with lower capabilities. The takeaway that he gleaned from this was that reducing friction—from awareness to onboarding—ensures a smoother experience for customers and can lead to higher engagement and conversion rates.

    • 17:06 - Learning from Unexpected Use Cases

    Robin also talks about how companies should respond to unexpected use cases that emerge after launching a product. He recounts his experience at Matterport, where releasing a smartphone version of their 3D camera solution led to 80,000 signups in one week. Unexpected users, such as large retail companies, adapted the tool for inventory and brand management, prompting the company to rethink their product vision and unlock further growth. This example illustrates the need to adapt product strategies based on customer feedback and new use cases.
    • 27:50 - Shifting Performance Management Paradigms

    One area of product development that Robin shares a critique of is around the traditional annual performance review. He notes its disconnect from the real-time feedback that today’s workforce desires. To reinforce his ideas in this area, he shares insights from a survey he conducted, revealing that employees actually tend to prefer more frequent performance insights, such as weekly or monthly updates. This approach not only reduces the stress associated with year-end evaluations but also allows for ongoing course corrections and personal development. By leveraging AI to compile achievements from weekly check-ins, Robin’s company aims to simplify the process, making performance evaluations more reflective of an employee's journey and growth throughout the year.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    30 October 2024, 4:00 am
  • 53 minutes 57 seconds
    Episode 194: From Product Leader to CEO with Mercedes Chatfield-Taylor
    Mercedes Chatfield-Taylor, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Artico Search, Inc. and a top recruiter specializing in leadership roles for scale-up companies, returns to chat with Melissa Perri on this episode of Product Thinking. Together they discuss the evolving CEO landscape, particularly the increasing importance of collaboration across functions in lean organizations and the growing demand for leaders focused on profitability and sustainability. Mercedes shares insights into the typical paths to becoming a CEO, including from product leadership roles, and the skills needed to transition successfully. 

    As far as Mercedes is concerned, there’s a core set of skills and talents that CPOs can bring to the table as a CEO, but finding that path and applying them is the challenge. The episode explores how focusing on product empathy, deep customer understanding, and cross-functional collaboration will aid aspiring CEOs from product backgrounds. They also touch on the value of aligning with sales, operations, and finance. 

    Want to learn more about what leadership traits will set product leaders up to succeed in the CEO space? Tune in to the full episode now.

    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 02:12 - From Growth At All Costs to an Efficiency Focus for CEOs

    Mercedes highlights a crucial shift in the CEO landscape from a “grow at all costs” mentality to a focus on profitability, sustainability, and scalability. She explains that the most sought-after CEOs today are those who have successfully managed transitions to profitability, while maintaining operational efficiency. These leaders know how to get the most out of lean teams by fostering collaboration across departments like sales, marketing, and engineering. In today’s business environment, it’s no longer enough to grow; CEOs must do more with less and lead cross-functional, highly collaborative teams to thrive.

    • 25:42 - The Importance of Building Strong Relationships with Sales

    Mercedes highlights the importance of a Chief Product Officer (CPO) working closely with the Chief Revenue Officer (CRO) and sales teams to succeed in transitioning to a CEO role. She emphasizes that CPOs need to have a deep understanding of how products are sold and should actively participate in sales processes, including joining sales calls and interacting directly with customers. This hands-on experience with the sales cycle not only provides empathy for the challenges of sales but also makes the transition to CEO much smoother, as it fosters stronger alignment with revenue generation. Mercedes shares an example of a CPO who successfully made this transition by building relationships across the organization, eventually becoming a CEO highly respected by sales teams.

    • 42:14 - CPOs Can Thrive as CEOs in Any Industry

    Mercedes argues that CPOs are natural successors for CEO roles across various industries, not just in SaaS or product-led growth (PLG) companies. Whether in finance, automotive, or real estate, a CPO who understands the product deeply and has strong commercial acumen is well-positioned to take on the CEO role. She cites examples of successful transitions in industries ranging from fintech to automotive, emphasizing that CPOs who work closely with sales, marketing, and finance and who are exposed to board-level discussions can smoothly make the leap to CEO. The key is ensuring they round out their skill set with experiences beyond product management.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    23 October 2024, 4:00 am
  • 43 minutes 57 seconds
    Episode 193: Navigating Hyper-Growth with Sean Solme Kim, Former Head of Product at TikTok and Amazon Prime
    In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri sits down with Sean Kim, former Head of Product at TikTok and a key figure behind the platform’s innovative features, including the popular Stitch functionality. Sean shares his insights on product management gleaned from his extensive experience at both Amazon and TikTok, emphasizing the importance of customer behavior in guiding product development.

    Sean discusses how his team at Amazon optimized customer retention through data-driven strategies, ultimately increasing Prime subscriptions by honing in on customer benefits and by automating messaging. Transitioning to TikTok, he reveals how he leveraged similar principles to foster a culture of empowerment among product managers, enabling them to own their projects and drive impactful results. He highlights the need for clarity in vision and metrics, ensuring that teams are aligned and able to innovate freely within a structured framework.

    Whether you're a product manager, leader, or simply interested in the tech industry's evolution, this episode offers invaluable lessons on creating meaningful products that resonate with users and sustain growth in an ever-changing landscape.

    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 18:22 - Data-Driven Approach to Retention and High-Value Actions

    Sean’s success in improving Amazon Prime retention relied on identifying and promoting high-value actions—specific behaviors that correlated strongly with long-term retention. These actions included things like taking advantage of Prime shipping, streaming Prime Video, or using Prime Music within the first few days of membership. Through data analysis and cohort studies, Sean’s team learned that customers who used multiple benefits early in their membership had much higher retention rates.

    His approach was deeply data-driven, utilizing machine learning to analyze customer behaviors and run tests across different markets. The team automated processes to test various hypotheses, such as which benefits to promote to specific demographic groups, and then used those insights to optimize the customer experience. This level of personalization and testing at scale helped Amazon Prime develop a highly effective strategy for improving customer retention through tailored engagement.

    • 27:08 - Empowering Product Managers at TikTok and Amazon

    Sean shared insights into how both Amazon and TikTok foster a sense of ownership among product managers (PMs), which empowers them to make decisions and execute on company goals. At both companies, PMs were responsible for identifying the problems they wanted to solve in alignment with key business objectives like improving retention or daily active users (DAUs). Sean highlighted the autonomy given to PMs, noting that no one dictated specific actions, but rather, PMs were expected to create their own strategies and negotiate the resources needed for execution.

    • 33:31 - Launching TikTok’s Stitch Feature by Recognizing User Behavior

    Sean’s development of the Stitch feature at TikTok provides an example of how great products can emerge from observing user behavior. The feature wasn’t initially part of TikTok’s product roadmap; instead, it came about after noticing that users were downloading videos, adding their reactions via third-party software, and re-uploading them. Recognizing this clunky process, Sean’s team worked on integrating the behavior directly into the app, thus making it much easier for users to create content by stitching their reactions with other videos.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    16 October 2024, 4:00 am
  • 49 minutes 2 seconds
    Episode 192: Brian Fugere’s Blueprint for Merging Teams and Technologies
    In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri chats with Brian Fugere, Chief Product Officer at Symplr, an expert with decades of experience in healthcare technology and enterprise solutions. Brian shares valuable lessons from his diverse career, offering a behind-the-scenes look at how Symplr approaches innovation in the complex world of healthcare operations and compliance.
    Tune in to hear Brian’s insights on leading product teams in a rapidly evolving industry, and how he balances customer demands with strategic decision-making. He also dives into the importance of simplifying products for enterprise clients, while tackling the unique challenges of navigating regulatory requirements in healthcare.

    Throughout the conversation, Brian emphasizes the need for clear communication, empowering teams to deliver value, and fostering a culture of collaboration that puts both the customer and product at the forefront. 
    Whether you're in healthcare, product management, or navigating leadership challenges in any sector, this episode provides actionable advice to drive meaningful impact through your product strategy.
    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 15:43 - Balancing Build Versus Buy Decisions

    Brian addresses the decision-making process behind building a product in-house versus acquiring it. He states that time and resources are the two critical factors in this equation. The company evaluates whether acquiring an existing solution would be faster and more cost-effective than building one. Brian is keen to stress that a company must also assess its internal competencies when making this decision. Symplr, for example, is better at buying existing solutions and optimizing them, rather than building something from scratch, as they’ve built teams specifically skilled in acquisitions and improvements.

    • 29:05 - The Role of Subject Matter Expertise vs. Product Expertise in Healthcare

    In healthcare, balancing subject matter expertise with core product management skills is critical. Brian explains that in assembling product teams, he intentionally mixes product experts with subject matter experts to foster cross-learning. As he points out, healthcare is a particularly complex field where deep domain knowledge is crucial for addressing nuanced customer needs, but pure product expertise is still required in order to run processes efficiently. For example, ex-nurses who deeply understand the intricacies of healthcare systems may not have the product management background but are invaluable for shaping the right solutions. Getting that balance of expertise right is vital for such an important field.

    • 37:46 - Balancing "Carrot and Stick" for Customer Transition

    When it comes to migrating customers from older platforms to newer ones, Fugere outlines the complex balancing act involved. Simpler has a dedicated migration team, reflecting how integral this process is to their strategy. Fugere's guidance to product managers is to aim for "sufficient parity" with the older platform to facilitate a smooth transition. However, they also need to offer enticing new features that encourage users to migrate willingly. The key is identifying high-priority pain points from customer feedback and rethinking problematic areas to add real value—like applying AI to automate parts of the scheduling process in their workforce management product.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    9 October 2024, 4:00 am
  • 43 minutes 4 seconds
    Episode 191: The Evolution of Customer Experience: Insights from Blake Morgan
    In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri sits down with Blake Morgan, a seasoned expert in customer experience, best-selling author, and someone with a career spanning major companies like Coca-Cola and AT&T.  Blake dives deep into the evolution of customer experience, sharing insights from her 18-year journey in the field and offering a fresh perspective on what it means to truly prioritize the customer.

    Tune in to discover how Blake's book, "The Eight Laws of Customer-Focused Leadership," provides a roadmap for becoming a transformative leader who puts customers first. She discusses practical strategies for integrating customer feedback into your organization, avoiding common pitfalls in measuring success, and the role of leadership in driving a unified customer experience.

    Throughout the episode, Blake highlights the importance of breaking down silos, engaging directly with customers, and fostering a culture where every employee takes ownership of the customer experience. Whether you're a product manager, UX designer, or leader in any industry, this conversation will inspire you to rethink how you approach customer-centricity and drive meaningful change within your organization.
    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 05:36 - Customer-Focused Leadership Starts with Mindset  

    Blake starts by delving into the core principles of customer-focused leadership, as outlined in her book, "Eight Laws of Customer-Focused Leadership." She explains that being customer-focused starts with the leader's mindset, and it’s crucial for executives to wake up every day excited to serve both customers and employees. The modern customer-focused leader needs to be deeply involved in the trenches, just like Lindsay Snyder, the President of In-N-Out, who frequently works alongside her team members in the stores. Blake points out that this hands-on leadership approach not only builds a strong connection with employees but also helps leaders stay attuned to the reality of day-to-day operations.

    • 20:37 - Customer-Centric Approach: Learning from T-Mobile

    Blake highlights the critical mistake companies make when they prioritize profit over customer care. She points to T-Mobile’s "Un-Carrier" strategy, led by former CEO John Legere, as a model for customer-centric transformation. In 2012, T-Mobile shifted the telecom industry by eliminating hidden fees and complex contracts that frustrated customers. This approach helped them rise from a lesser-known player to a major industry leader. John Legere's leadership style evolved alongside the company’s philosophy—he embraced a more relatable and bold persona, which resonated with both employees and customers. As Blake explains, his consistent focus on creating a customer-friendly brand was instrumental in T-Mobile's growth.

    • 26:55 - Pitfalls of Poor Chatbot Implementation: Air Canada

    Blake recounts the case of Air Canada’s chatbot failure as an example of how poor AI implementation can lead to severe customer dissatisfaction. A customer was misinformed by the airline's chatbot about a bereavement reimbursement policy, leading to a legal case when the customer followed incorrect advice and was denied compensation. Air Canada’s failure to take responsibility for the chatbot’s error worsened the situation, resulting in negative PR. Blake criticizes companies that release faulty chatbots without adequate testing or fail to uphold their customer promise when mistakes happen.

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    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    2 October 2024, 4:00 am
  • 40 minutes 44 seconds
    Episode 190: Mastering Product Focus: Balancing Legacy and Innovation with Shruti Patel
    In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri welcomes Shruti Patel, Executive Vice President and CPO Business Banking at U.S. Bank, to share her expertise on navigating the complexities of product development within large financial institutions. 

    Discover how Shruti's approach to product leadership is driving transformation in business banking and learn actionable insights for maintaining agility and relevance in a rapidly evolving market.

    The conversation also covers the differences between product management in traditional banking sectors and companies like Shopify. 
    Overall, Shruti emphasizes the importance of continuous improvement in existing products and customer experiences, while also keeping an eye on emerging trends and technologies. 
    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 04:03 - Navigating the Differences Between Traditional Banking and Fintech  

    At the top of this episode, Shruti highlights the distinct differences between traditional banking institutions and modern fintech companies, particularly from the perspective of product management. As she explains, while fintechs like Shopify operate with a narrow focus and modern tech stacks, banks like US Bank handle a broader range of services and face the complexities of managing legacy systems. These systems, having been built over decades, often necessitate a more deliberate and slower approach to innovation. Shruti is keen to underscore that the responsibility of managing people’s money in a highly regulated environment further complicates the speed and agility typically associated with product development in fintech.
    • 13:22 - Addressing Small Business Challenges Through Product Innovation

    In discussing her work at U.S. Bank, Shruti elaborates by insights gained from U.S. Bank’s annual survey of small businesses, which identified cash flow management and access to capital as two of the most significant challenges faced by these enterprises. Shruti emphasizes that understanding these pain points is crucial in shaping the bank’s strategy to provide digital tools that not only facilitate financial transactions but also offer businesses valuable insights into their cash flow.

    • 35:10 - Transitioning to a Product-Centric Organization

    Shruti shares with Melissa her insights on how large enterprises can successfully transition from a project-based approach to a product-centric one. She advises that organizations start by clearly defining their core product sets and mapping the customer journeys associated with these products. This involves understanding how customers interact with products and identifying pain points across these touchpoints. She also goes on to emphasize the importance of organizing the business around these customer journeys to ensure that all efforts are aligned with enhancing the customer experience.

    Episode Resources:

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    Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:
    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    25 September 2024, 4:05 am
  • 47 minutes 23 seconds
    Episode 189: Prioritizing Platform Products with Vijay Pitchumani of Okta
    Vijay Pitchumani is the esteemed guest of Melissa Perri on this episode of the Product Thinking podcast. Vijay, a renowned expert in product strategy, and Director of Product at Okta, shares his insights on the essential role of product managers in platform teams and the unique challenges they face.

    Across the pair’s discussion, Vijay and Melissa delve into the critical function of product managers in platform environments. Vijay emphasizes that despite their focus on backend systems, platform teams require strong product management to define and track success metrics. He explains how engineers, while highly skilled, often need guidance on setting clear, actionable success metrics that align with customer needs and enable rapid iteration. This includes breaking down objectives into smaller, measurable targets that facilitate ongoing customer feedback and platform evolution.
    The conversation also explores the potential for experimentation within platform teams. Vijay shares his experience with API-first approaches, advocating for the release of APIs to a select group of customers, to gather early feedback, before fully developing user-facing components.

    Tune in to this episode to gain valuable insights into the evolving role of product managers in platform teams and learn how to navigate the challenges of scaling and innovating in the platform space.
    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 17:37 - Crafting a Platform Vision

    Developing a vision for a platform is distinct from crafting a vision for user-facing products. Vijay emphasizes the need for platform PMs to think long-term and anticipate future use cases and non-functional requirements. Unlike user-facing products where MVPs can evolve incrementally, platform decisions must account for scalability and future capabilities from the outset. This involves providing engineering teams with a clear understanding of market trends and future needs to guide technology choices and ensure the platform can evolve to meet new demands.

    • 26:21 - Balancing Short-Term Experiments and Long-Term Goals

    When it comes to justifying experiments to platform teams, Vijay advises framing them as short-term, time-boxed experiments that demonstrate potential value with minimal investment. He suggests that PMs propose experiments with clear, short-term goals (e.g., two weeks of effort) to test hypotheses and validate ideas. This approach helps in avoiding waste and ensures that the experiments are manageable and deliver actionable insights quickly. By setting clear expectations and timelines, PMs can secure buy-in from stakeholders and ensure that experiments align with broader business objectives, reducing the risk of wasted effort and resources.
    • 39:39 - The Evolving Role of AI in Enhancing Productivity 

    Vijay discusses the rotation of PMs across different teams and projects as a strategy for both career development and ensuring diverse experiences. By rotating PMs, organizations can keep them engaged and provide them with varied experiences, which helps in identifying their strengths and weaknesses. This practice also ensures that PMs bring fresh perspectives to different problems and projects. To support this, he advises setting clear expectations and providing sufficient onboarding time to help PMs acclimate to new challenges. This approach not only enhances PMs’ skills but also benefits the organization by leveraging diverse insights and experiences.

    Episode Resources:

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    Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:
    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    18 September 2024, 4:00 am
  • 46 minutes 11 seconds
    Episode 188: How AI is Redefining Enterprise Productivity with Tamar Yehoshua of Glean
    Melissa Perri welcomed Tamar Yehoshua, President of Product and Technology at Glean, to the Product Thinking podcast for an in-depth conversation about the rapidly evolving landscape of AI and enterprise productivity. Tamar, with her extensive background in AI and search technologies, dives into Glean’s journey of integrating cutting-edge retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) technology to enhance enterprise search and knowledge management.

    In this episode, Tamar shares how Glean’s approach to AI is revolutionizing the way businesses retrieve and utilize information, emphasizing the importance of balancing search relevance, personalization, and security. She discusses the challenges of building an AI-driven product that adheres to strict data permissions while delivering actionable insights. Tamar also provides a behind-the-scenes look at the engineering-heavy structure of Glean’s team and how senior product managers play a critical role in bridging the gap between technical excellence and user needs.
    If you’re interested in how to navigate the complexities of AI innovation, optimize enterprise workflows, and future-proof your product strategies, this episode is a must-listen.

    You’ll hear us talk about:

    • 06:36 - The Critical Role of Security in Enterprise Search

    When discussing Glean's approach to enterprise search, Tamar emphasizes the paramount importance of security and privacy. Glean’s platform deals with vast amounts of proprietary information within enterprises, making it essential to ensure robust security measures. Tamar explains that the platform is designed to adhere strictly to the privacy controls and policies of various SaaS applications, requiring meticulous attention to detail to maintain compliance. She highlights that Glean offers both a hosted service and the option for customers to host the service within their own cloud instances, ensuring a high level of data isolation and security.

    This focus on security is critical for building trust with enterprise clients, particularly when dealing with large organizations that have stringent security requirements. Tamar’s insight into the complexities of securing enterprise data showcases the deep technical challenges involved in developing a product like Glean. It also reflects the broader industry trend where security and data privacy have become fundamental selling points for technology solutions, especially in the enterprise space.

    • 27:28 - The Importance of Personalized Retrieval in Enterprise AI 

    Tamar Yehoshua emphasizes the challenges of integrating large language models (LLMs) with enterprise data. Unlike general LLMs, enterprise solutions require sophisticated retrieval mechanisms to ensure that only authorized and relevant information is accessed. Tamar explains that simply dumping all enterprise data into an LLM is not feasible due to issues with permissions and the specificity required in enterprise contexts. Glean’s approach is to index all enterprise data, enforce metadata-based permissions, and personalize results based on the user’s role and relationships within the company.

    • 38:17 - The Evolving Role of AI in Enhancing Productivity 

    In discussing the future of AI, Tamar touches on the emerging trend of agentic workflows, where AI systems can perform multi-step tasks autonomously. Although these systems are still in their infancy and require user intervention, Tamar is optimistic that they will soon become more reliable. She believes that as AI models improve, these workflows will enable users to offload routine tasks, allowing them to focus on more strategic and creative work.

    Tamar envisions a future where AI significantly enhances workplace productivity by handling time-consuming tasks such as summarizing meeting notes or updating databases. She also addresses concerns about AI potentially replacing jobs, advising professionals to embrace AI as a tool to improve their own efficiency and capabilities.

    Episode Resources:

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    Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedInIf you enjoyed this episode, please visit:
    Previous guests include: Shruti Patel of US Bank, Steve Wilson of Contrast Security, Bethany Lyons of KAWA Analytics, Tanya Johnson Chief Product Officer at Auror, Tom Eisenmann of Harvard Business School, Stephanie Leue of Doodle, Jason Fried of 37signals, Hubert Palan of Productboard, Blake Samic of Stripe and Uber, Quincy Hunte of Amazon Web Services

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    Product Thinking is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so
    Product Thinking Guest and Audience Podcast Feedback Form
    11 September 2024, 4:00 am
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