In this episode, you will hear me in conversation with Kelly McDaniel, a therapist and author, whose latest book, Mother Hunger, examines the impact on women specifically of having lacked the proper nurturance, protection, and guidance from their primary maternal figure in early life.

The reason I wanted to speak to Kelly in the context of “women without kids,” is that it seems obvious to me that living with mother hunger can’t NOT have an impact on how one feels about becoming a mother, or about the experience of being a mother after having had a child. In  the episode we discuss:

-Kelly’s definition of “mother hunger” and how she came up with the term.

-Why 50% of the population experience mother hunger and how it manifests in issues around food and love.

-What causes mother hunger - and why this is often the result of an epigenetic inheritance.

-Why structural issues make it harder for mothers and babies to bond - and the lifelong attachment issues that can result from this.

-How mother hunger impacts our procreative choices and how we may feel about becoming mothers ourselves.

-The links between mother hunger, anorexia, and being “a-reproductive” (i.e. having no desire to reproduce).

-The impact of a lack of paid parental leave on mother hunger

-Why choosing not to have a child can be the most “loving” choice if we are aware that our capacity to mother is being compromised.

-Why our materialistic, consumer culture is just another substitute mother - and a way we seek to soothe our mother hunger.

Learn more about Kelly and her work HERE and check out Mother Hunger HERE.

You can get your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE. 

Mickey Down and Konrad Kay, creators of HBO's Industry, on addictions to success, status and money, and the substance abuse that fuels their hit show. In the episode we discuss:

-Why the themes of ambition, success, and money are at the heart of HBOs Industry – and how these themes manifest in various addictions among the characters

-Choosing what we worship, and what happens when we put our faith in external things to make us feel safe, secure, happy, and whole

-Why  recreational drug and alcohol use is so normalized – and how it morphs into more problematic use, especially in high pressure industries

-The individual drivers behind the culture of “success addiction” and “never enough” depicted in the show

-The role of childhood wounds in our self-destructive adult behaviors

-The transactional nature of the sex depicted in the show, and what this says about the characters’ lack of capacity for connection and vulnerability

-Dating apps being the crack cocaine of courtship – and the role of this in an addictive hookup culture

-The motivations for two of the characters getting sober in Season 2, and their different approaches to their sobriety

-The complexity of human nature, and how our “worst selves” often come out when we are feeling vulnerable and afraid

-The role of art in helping us develop self-compassion for our less palatable actions and behaviors

-Two key lines from the show that encapsulate our modern culture of excess 

Seasons One and Two of Industry are streaming now on HBO. You can follow along on Instagram @industryhbo for updates.

Big thank you to Ghia for partnering on this episode. Get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com where you can get  $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS.

Full-spectrum life coach Goddexx on transcending binaries, the roots of codependency, and embracing the fullness of who we are - in sobriety and beyond. In the episode we discuss:

-Their experiences with food addiction in childhood – related to food insecurity in the home

-Starting to abuse alcohol in tandem with coming into their bi-sexuality

-Toggling between different addictions to manage different situations and emotional challenges

-Discovering and enacting their own “harm reduction” approach to substance abuse

-The role of codependency in dysfunctional families – and why this is especially prevalent in migrant and other marginalized communities

-The prevalence of alcohol and other drugs in queer spaces as a way of numbing out internalized homophobia and transphobia

-Their work creating sober circles and spaces for healing in the QTBIPOC space

-The value of ritual, spell-work, and other forms of spiritual practice in sobriety

-Healing from intergenerational trauma – and the role of substance abuse in numbing the pain of the past

-What it means to live a “full spectrum” life – and why this concept can be frightening for people

-The value of boundaries when it comes to embracing fluidity 

Learn more about Goddexx and their work HERE and follow them on Instagram @iamgoddexx. 

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode. Get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com where you can get  $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS.

Thanks also to  Curious Elixirs.  Purchase directly online at Curiouselixirs.com where you can use the code RUBY22 for $10 off any order worth $50 or more. 

Ghia founder Melanie Masarin shares how she came to be a pioneer in the nonalcoholic beverage space, and why quitting drinking was the best she ever did for her productivity and her wellbeing. In the episode we discuss:

-How her upbringing in France informed her drinking choices in later life

-How the drinking culture in France differs from that in the UK and US

-Cutting out alcohol to try to diagnose her stomach issues – and discovering how good it felt not to drink

-Why not drinking is integral to her success as an entrepreneur 

-Why taking a month off booze isn’t really enough to experience all the benefits of living alcohol-free

-The prophetic conversation that led to her coming up with the concept for Ghia

-Her go-to drink when there is no Ghia on the menu

-The social value of European “Aperitivo” culture - and why we don’t need alcohol to enjoy it

-Not providing options for non-drinkers as a form of social discrimination

-Why she has over-invested in getting Ghia into hospitality venues and the long-term vision attached to this

-Being “sober curious” with cigarettes and coffee

-Her experiences of the “Cali Sober” scene in LA

Follow Melanie on Instagram @melaniemasarin and get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com, where you can get $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS.

Big thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get your brews at Athleticbrewing.com and use the code RUBY20 to receive 20% off your online order of any beer or Daypack sparking water products. 

Jason Gots, podcaster and author of Humanity is Trying: Experiments in Living with Grief, Finding Connection, and Resisting Easy Answers, on the nature of human suffering, living with grief, and the Buddhist approach to addiction and self-discipline. In the episode we discuss:

-Jason’s drinking history and what led to him getting sober curious

-How Buddhist ideas and practices have influenced his relationship with alcohol

-The conversation with his father than helped his sober curiosity stick

-Having a lot of “drunken poets” as his early heroes, and letting go of his romantic associations with booze

-How a culture of “survivalism” has been passed down the generations, and different generations’ responses to this

-What the show Euphoria shows us about shifting motivations for substance use and abuse

-The role that alcohol and other substances played in his relationship with his sister, and in her death in 2015

-Medicating our grief – for both the people and the things we have lost, and the things we fear we will never be able to have

-Self-discipline as both punishment and liberation – and the role of “friendly curiosity” in supporting healthy new habits

-The Buddhist concept of “the middle way,” and why it’s so hard to achieve this – through moderation – with a substance like alcohol

Learn more about Jason and his work HERE, get your copy of Humanity is Trying HERE, and listen to the Clever Creature podcast HERE.

Big thanks to Ghia and Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get your Ghia at DrinkGhia.com and get $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS. Order your Athletic brews at Athleticbrewing.com and  use the code RUBY20 to receive 20% off your online order of any beer or Daypack sparking water products. 

Jessica Baum, psychotherapist and author of Anxiously Attached: Becoming More Secure in Life and Love, on the links between attachment theory and our addictions to substances, behaviors, and unhealthy relationships. In the episode we discuss:

-An overview of attachment theory – and how our relationship with our early caregivers wires our attachment style

-How an inability to trust and connect with others can be traced back to how our nervous system formed in infancy

-Why we become “attached” to certain substances, behaviors, and people, when we are detached from ourselves

-Why so many people experience insecure attachment – whether this is expressed in “anxious” or “avoidant” tendencies

-Why addictive behaviors are only a symptom of underlying distress – which often has its roots in attachment issues 

-The meaning of “dis-regulation” and how we learn to reach outside of ourselves to regulate our nervous system

-Why a state of relaxation and ease can feel so alien to us when we are used to being dis-regulated

-Why workaholism and “overdoing” are so prevalent as ways of avoiding states of inner distress

-The chemical reaction that makes some people more vulnerable to “love addiction”

-Where codependency and love addiction overlap

-Why healthy conflict is what builds intimacy in relationships – and how being conflict averse can enable destructive behaviors

-The journey from “selfless” to “self-full” as a way to become more secure in our attachments

-Why it’s normal and okay to “self-medicate” and how to discover what are safe medicators for us

Get your copy of Anxiously Attached HERE and follow Jessica on Instagram @jessicabaumlmhc

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode. You can get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com - where you can also use the code CURIOUS to get $10 off your first online order.

Avis Cardella, the author of Spent: Memoirs of a Shopping Addict, discusses our pervasive culture of compulsive spending and why we're more vulnerable to shopping addiction than ever. In the episode we discuss: 

-When everyday consumption morphs into compulsive spending or shopping addiction

-Why compulsive shopping is not the same as over-spending or regularly getting into debt

-The physical sensations that could show shopping has become a problem

-Why shopping addiction is not taken as seriously as substance abuse 

-How our desire to be loved and accepted plays into shopping addiction

-Growing up in a consumer culture – and equating spending and being bought stuff with “love”

-How consumer culture has changed in the decade following the 2008 financial crash – and become more targeted and insidious 

-How Avis addressed her shopping addiction – and the one time it has back come up in her life

-The psychology of “pandemic shopping”

-Why shopping too much, along with working too much, is often celebrated under capitalism – and the negative consequences of both

-The link between compulsive spending and body image issues

-The impact of social media on our spending habits

You can get your copy of Spent: Memoirs of a Shopping Addict by Avis Cardella HERE.

Big thanks and shout out to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. You can order online at Athleticbrewing.com and use the code RUBY20 to receive 20% off your online order of any beer or Daypack sparking water products. 

Author Swan Huntley on drinking to escape the trap of perfection, and why self-love is a part of every sober and sober curious journey. In the episode we discuss:

-Swan’s sober story – and how her drinking found her living a secret double life

-The book that made her realize it was time for her to quit

-Why everybody is sober curious before they get sober serious

-Why she decided to write a fictionalized account of somebody’s sober curious journey

-Reading and daydreaming as a healthy escape – and another way to dissociate 

-Why total abstinence equals freedom from our addictions

-Whether there is any such thing as an “addictive personality” – and the factors driving our compulsive behaviors

-Why the themes of perfectionism and control are very much tied to addictive behaviors

-The concept of “keeping your side of the street clean” as it pertains to sobriety

-The process of letting go of thoughts, beliefs, and resentments that are keeping us stuck in the past

-The trap of using alcohol to unlock inspiration– and finding the courage to create sober 

Learn more about Swan Huntley and her work HERE, get your copy of Getting Clean with Stevie Green HERE, and follow her on IG @swanhuntley

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode.  You can get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com - where you can use the code CURIOUS to get $10 off your first online order

DJ Hanzi, founder of sober dance party, Reprieve, DJ Hanzi, founder of sober dance party, Reprieve, talks about the healing power of music and dance, and how to navigate the nightlife as a non-drinker. In the episode we discuss: 

-How his experiences of going clubbing sober led to him setting up his sober dance party, Reprieve

-How he kept the party going during Covid – and how it became a place for people to release tension and find hope

-The therapeutic value of music and dancing when it comes to our mental health

-Why dancing sober can be so intimidating – and how to overcome your shyness on the dance floor

-Hanzi’s journey to sobriety – and why alcohol was the last substance he got around to giving up

-Why problem drinking sometimes doesn’t look like “problem drinking” – and why sobriety isn’t just for alcoholics 

-How “partying” comes to be equated with getting high, and how to reclaim our right to play

-The value of creating a more mainstream conversation about mental health, alcoholism, and addiction

-How making time for FUN can fight fatigue and fuel us in our fight for a most just and equal world

Learn more about Hanzi and Reprieve HERE and follow along on Instagram @djhanzi and @reprieveparty

Big thanks to Curious Elixirs for partnering on this episode! Ship online at curiouselixirs.com where you can use the code RUBY22 for $10 off any order worth $50 or more. 

Celebrated hair stylist Jayne Matthews on how getting a midlife diagnosis of ADHD helped her make sense of her substance abuse. In the episode, Ruby and Jayne discuss:

-Why discovering cocaine was what finally led to Jayne quitting drinking

-Why it was the hangovers – not the drinking – that became the reason she had to quit

-The dangers of being a high-functioning addict

-Jayne using booze to self-medicate her undiagnosed ADHD symptoms

-Why both alcoholism and ADHD are said to run in families – and whether this is about genetics or learned behaviors

-Not doing well in school and drinking being something Jayne could be “good at” in her teens

-Why ADHD symptoms sometimes look like PTSD

-Dealing with the shame, disappointment, and irritation of being neurodivergent in a neurotypical world

-How Jayne's ADHD traits have helped drive her business success

-Jayne's thoughts on ADHD medication given her history with addiction

-Why we are seeing a spate of mid-life ADHD diagnoses – among women in particular

You can learn more about Jayne and her work, and purchase her digital  haircutting courses, HERE, and follow her on Instagram @jayne_edosalon

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode.  You can get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com - where you can use the code  CURIOUS to get $10 off your first online order.

My guest today is the author and founder of The Luckiest Club, Laura McKowen. Laura is the first person I’ve had on the show twice. The first time, we were talking about her book, We Are the Luckiest, and I invited her back to discuss an essay she published in the New York times last fall, titled: How I Knew I Needed to Quit Instagram. 

I could relate personally to so much of what she described in her piece, in which she compared her relationship with social media with her alcohol addiction. The essay also came out around the time that reports surfaced linking social media use to negative mental health outcomes, among young girls in particular, and it seemed to me like it was part of a much larger, and ongoing conversation about how we navigate our lives online in a healthy way.

As I was researching my questions for this interview, the parallels between social media and a substance like alcohol became clearer and clearer – and we get into all of that, along with what happened when her agent and publisher gently suggested that she get back on Instagram for the sake of her career. In the episode we discuss: 

-The highs and lows of social media addiction.

-Moderating social media the way we used to moderate alcohol. 

-Why both social media and alcohol capitalize on our need to be validated and fit in.

-Why it hurts so much to be unfollowed – and why we feel ashamed for caring about this.

-How the advent of the personal brand was enabled by social media – while simultaneously shaping how we use these platforms

-The impact on our mental health of constantly micro-managing our online personas.

-How social media create a climate of constant competition with one another.

-Why there is no such thing as being 100% “authentic” on social media.

-What makes some people more susceptible to social media having a negative impact on them.

-Finding other spaces to have more complex, nuanced, and thought-provoking conversations.

Read Laura's NYT essay HERE, learn more about her work HERE. Laura's podcast is Tell Me Something True.

And big thank you to amazing folks at bonbuz for partnering on this episode. You can order directly at bonbuz.com - and get 10% off your order with the code RUBY10 when you click HERE