In this episode, we have a good (loyal?) friend of the show back for a second round: John Lyons.

Important links

* John on LinkedIn

* John’s new YouTube show ‘Bin Juice’

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

Show notes

* John on LinkedIn

* John’s Substack and other links

Summary

* John shares his journey from advertising to consulting, focusing on practical outcomes rather than marketing politics.

* He highlights the common misconception that advertising only means paid ads and explains that any brand communication can be seen as "advertising."

* John describes the industry's split between "brand" and "performance" marketing, noting that customers don’t view these distinctions.

* He emphasizes the importance of measuring marketing's financial impact and explains why companies need an "always-on" approach to marketing for lasting brand recognition.

* John criticizes the "trust-me" approach in marketing and suggests that marketers should communicate results clearly to executives, especially in financial terms.

* He explains how changes in privacy and digital tracking have made it harder to measure digital ad performance accurately.

* His recommendation for effective marketing measurement is to return to basic incrementality testing to see what actually drives growth.

* John stresses the need for brand-building but advises against over-investment in specific channels too early. He supports a balanced approach, combining testing and targeted investments.

* He concludes by encouraging marketers to detach emotionally from their campaigns and focus on long-term growth.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

Show notes

* Adam’s agency Thinkerbell

* Adam’s book: Stop listening to the customer

Summary

* Adam Ferrier challenges the idea of being "customer-obsessed," arguing that brands lose their identity by focusing too much on consumer needs.

* He believes brands should prioritize their own values and what they stand for instead of solely catering to customer demands.

* Companies like Apple and IKEA are examples of successful brands that don’t always prioritize customer convenience but stick to their vision.

* Ferrier suggests that modern marketing often dilutes creativity, and strong brand leadership is essential to keep a brand distinct.

* He advocates for a company-wide approach to branding, where everyone, not just the marketing department, is responsible for the brand's success.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

Here are the key takeaways from the podcast:

* Effectiveness in marketing: It's about ensuring that marketing efforts, particularly advertising, achieve their intended goals, whether that's awareness, behavior change, or sales.

* Econometrics simplified: Econometrics uses data to determine if a marketing campaign worked by analyzing both the campaign’s direct impact and other factors (e.g. a competitor campaign) that could influence the outcome.

* When to use econometrics: It's most useful for businesses with multiple marketing channels and more complex budgets but might not be necessary for very small businesses with straightforward marketing efforts.

* Creativity matters: In a world with fragmented attention, compelling creative content is essential. Strong branding and creative consistency across platforms amplify marketing effectiveness.

* The rise of digital: While traditional media like TV is losing its dominance, the advent of digital tools allows for more targeted, cost-effective, and immediate marketing responses, making brand-building and performance marketing work hand-in-hand.

Links

* Grace Kite & Magic Numbers

* Grace on LinkedIn

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

As a brand designer, Austin experienced a similar journey to mine, he learned about the power of brand strategy and started offering it to clients. Things were great. But on that journey towards becoming a strategist, he also noticed that some things were broken in this new ‘era’ of strategic brand designers.We explore the following topics:

* Is Brand Strategy Overrated?: We dive into whether brand strategy is often overhyped, sometimes leading to boring or trendy brand identities that don't stand the test of time.

* Distinctiveness is key: The key takeaway is that making your brand stand out with distinctive assets—like logos or mascots—is way more important than getting bogged down in traditional strategy stuff.

* What strategy should be about: Instead of getting lost in complex strategies, we should focus on creativity and making brands that are instantly recognizable.

I hope you enjoyed this conversation, please let me know in the comments how you use brand strategy (or how you avoid it 😁).

I also mentioned Roel Stavorinus his book on Strategic brand design, it’s actually available in English now!

Want more critical, hands-on content on brand-building? Please hit that subscribe button!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

Discover the 5 key brand religions, their core beliefs, and how they can apply to your brand.

Important links

* Download the white paper to take a deep dive into the 5 brand religions

* Kristof on LinkedIn

* The episode with Jan Verlinden (Ritchie)

Creative business company

One of the biggest challenges in my own career has been trying to convince business leaders that their ‘brand’ is one of the most important assets of their company.

That’s why this episode is sponsored by Creative Business Company, a strategic consultancy on a mission to make brand more accountable and effective.

They take the lessons they’ve learned from over a decade of experience working with big brands like Morningstar, Formula E, and Shell, and adapt them to work with smaller, fast-growing companies to help them get more attention, convert leads, and drive sales.

So if you’re trying to get the budget for ‘brand’, create messaging that converts, or lower your cost of acquisition, check out Creative Business Company for ideas, evidence and tools that will help you make an impact fast. 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

Discover the captivating marketing story of Ritchie, a Belgian lemonade brand built from strong marketing principles by entrepreneur/marketer Jan Verlinden (ex Pepsi-co). Learn how Jan leverages his experience at big brands to grow Ritchie through unexpected marketing channels and tactics to expand his market share gradually.

Show notes

* Jan on LinkedIn

* Check out Ritchie, the amazing brand Jan is building

* The book about the Ritchie story (online in Dutch)

Creative business company

One of the biggest challenges in my own career has been trying to convince business leaders that their ‘brand’ is one of the most important assets of their company.

That’s why this episode is sponsored by Creative Business Company, a strategic consultancy on a mission to make brand more accountable and effective.

They take the lessons they’ve learned from over a decade of experience working with big brands like Morningstar, Formula E, and Shell, and adapt them to work with smaller, fast-growing companies to help them get more attention, convert leads and drive sales.

So if you’re trying to get the budget for ‘brand’, create messaging that converts, or lower your cost of acquisition, check out Creative Business Company for ideas, evidence and tools that will help you make an impact fast. 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

A deep dive into the problematic state of online advertising, from its lack of effectiveness to its societal impacts.

Show notes

* Find ‘Adscam’ + the free ebooks on Bob’s website

* Bob on LinkedIn

Creative business company

One of the biggest challenges in my own career has been trying to convince business leaders that their ‘brand’ is one of the most important assets of their company.

That’s why this episode is sponsored by Creative Business Company, a strategic consultancy on a mission to make brand more accountable and effective.

They take the lessons they’ve learned from over a decade of experience working with big brands like Morningstar, Formula E, and Shell, and adapt them to work with smaller, fast-growing companies to help them get more attention, convert leads and drive sales.

So if you’re trying to get the budget for ‘brand’, create messaging that converts, or lower your cost of acquisition, check out Creative Business Company for ideas, evidence and tools that will help you make an impact fast. 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

A deep dive into brand architecture and how to use it to strengthen your brand positioning

Show notes

* Felicia on LinkedIn

* The Morningstar case study by Creative business company

Brand strategy course

Activate your strategic brain and level up your creative business. Find courses on brand strategy, brand workshops, and brand strategy presentations. You can use LTBPODCAST to get a 20% discount.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

In this episode, we discover the power of ‘associative attention’, a framework developed by Max Stricker and Samuel Brealey. It zooms in on the importance of not only getting attention but the right type of attention through strong association.

Show notes

* Associative Attention Paper & ‘Health Check’

Associative Attention is a framework that helps brand owners deliver better executions (think advertising, POS material, packaging). It connects the dots between the WHAT and the HOW of attention. Brand owners need to do well in both areas and those who do can see transformational executions.

You can download the full article here. It also includes a quick ‘Health Check’ you can take to start your Associative Attention journey.

* Max on LinkedIn

* The article with Samuel Brealey on WARC (paywall)

* This episode is sponsored by Creative business company. Find your free no-bs brand-building guides here.

Brand strategy course

Activate your strategic brain and level up your creative business. Find courses on brand strategy, brand workshops, and brand strategy presentations. You can use LTBPODCAST to get a 20% discount.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com

Discover what it takes to be a leader in brand for a large B2B tech company.

Show notes

* Gwen on LinkedIn

* This episode is sponsored by Creative business company. Find your free no-bs brand-building guides here.

Brand strategy course

Activate your strategic brain and level up your creative business. Find courses on brand strategy, brand workshops, and brand strategy presentations. You can use LTBPODCAST to get a 20% discount.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit letstalkbranding.substack.com