“This is really new territory that is going to challenge the way some of these law firms are run and how the industry responds to that going forward over the next couple of years,” says co-host Howard Rosenberg. In this episode, Howard and Chris Batz dive into the rising trend of superstar law partners landing eight-figure salaries and the major impact it’s having on firm management, client relationships, and talent acquisition.

As these high-profile lateral hires bring in up to $20 million, firms are being pushed to rethink compensation models and operations. Howard shares insights from his recent trip to London, where law firm leaders voiced mixed reactions. Some are worried about staying competitive, while others are dealing with pay scale compression, affecting both junior and senior attorneys. Could this shift spark a major overhaul in how firms operate and structure their fees?

The episode also looks at how technology, artificial intelligence, and market changes might shape the legal industry in the coming decade. Will firms adapt to these shifts, or face disruption? It’s clear the legal landscape is at a turning point.

Quotes

• “This is really new territory that is going to challenge the way some of these law firms are run and how the industry responds to that going forward over the next couple of years. I think that’s really exciting. It is what it is; it’s not going to change, but how firms deal with and respond to it is an open book.” (01:09 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• “You have these firms hiring outrageous talent, entire teams following them, and the market consolidating with specialists going to the high-rate firms, leaving these 600-plus firms holding the bag. They are now forced to make really difficult decisions. It’s amazing to see the effects of COVID, the expectations for first-year associate salaries skyrocketing—what, $215k now, I believe—and this new superstar level of talent is taking material percentage points of revenue away from firms to platforms that can truly resource them in ways others can’t even come close to. So yes, it’s absolutely changing the game.” (05:49 | Chris Batz) 

• “I’m curious what the implications will be for new attorney hires and the junior partners who are looking at the ranks and wondering, ‘Where’s my future in this firm?’ And then there’s the vision coming from the leadership team as the firm continues to evolve, with such a huge, almost moon-like presence coming into the orbit of the firm, affecting the entire ecosystem.” (07:58 | Chris Batz)

• “I think you’re going to see a whole change in the industry with technology coming on board, along with AI, talent, and pricing. All these ingredients are mixing in a way that will change the very dynamics of the industry going forward.” (11:00 | Howard Rosenberg)

Links

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“For a lot of law firm leaders that I’m in contact with, this is their central challenge: to chart a path of sustained growth.” says new co-host Howard Rosenberg who joins co-host Chris Batz to continue their discussion about the best way for law firms to form, based on data and intelligence, a structured strategy approach to growth through acquisition. 

It's not easy, Chris explains, and requires discipline, long term thinking, and learning to “say no to the shiny objects.” Law firms remain people-first industry built on talent wherein, nonetheless, that very personnel tends to turn over quickly, among other daily changes and distractions.Therefore it’s important to form a well-defined, codified plan with solid parameters and to be able to communicate it clearly across the entire team.

Join today’s discussion to learn why Chris says strategy is king and to hear Howard delve into the true meaning of growth.

Quotes

• “For a lot of law firm leaders that I’m in contact with, this is their central challenge: to chart a path of sustained growth. The question is, ‘Where do they do it? What practice areas get the investment and which people in those practice areas get the priority for either acquisitions or just time and attention because one thing can’t be done in isolation without understanding the rest of the firm. So, it’s a really complex equation, but it’s the route for growth.” (0:51 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• “Frankly, it’s strategy. It’s this idea of knowing what to say ‘no’ to and knowing what to say ‘yes’ to. This approach is structured, it’s intentional, and it’s avoiding the shiny objects that pull firms away from truly accomplishing their strategic goals.”  (1:54 | Chris Batz) 

• “The most successful managing partners that I’m in contact with seem to realize they’re in the talent business. It’s a talent asset business, and the talent walks out the door every day and comes back in the morning, and I think you cannot grow without having the best people in the best seats within the law firm. And that changes your perspective about how you go for growth.” (7:58 | Howard Rosenberg)

• “There’s a trade-off. Someone’s trading something when that’s taking place. I have clients who do it. Some of it has to do with size, frankly. For the smaller firms, it’s harder to dedicate time. Everyone’s got to be rowing the same way and have to be contributing to the bottom line. Again it goes back to this fun topic of ‘size matters.’ (10:02 | Chris Batz)

• “Growth —what does that mean? I still come back to the definition of growth. It may not be purely revenue growth. It may be doing more interesting work or more sustained work that has less pricing variability…Every firm has to take this decision for themselves; it's not a cookie-cutter approach.” (11:23 | Howard Rosenberg)

Links

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“It’s not where I thought I was going to wind up, but it’s been a very, very fulfilling journey,” says Howard Rosenberg, today’s guest—who will be joining Chris Batz as co-host—on The Future is Bright podcast. On this episode, Howard recalls his journey from graduating from the prestigious Rhode Island School of Design with a degree in architecture, to finding himself unexpectedly working in corporate law after graduating from Cambridge University in the UK with an MBA. Though they may seem worlds apart, Howard has learned that each field is ultimately concerned with people and finding the best way to solve problems. 

Howard describes his time at the firm which was then known as Berwin Leighton Paisner where he had a “ringside view” as to just how mergers worked. He describes what it was like to use technology to advance the drafting of contracts just as the internet was taking off, and how this led to his role as CEO of Be Professional, which handled compliance work for small businesses,  a collaboration with global consulting firm Deloitte, and the first company founded by both a law firm and a Big Four accountants and practice company. 

In keeping with his people-centered business practices, Howard is currently Partner and Head of Talent Intelligence and Acquisitions at Baretz+Brunelle, where he helps firms learn the most about potential partner recruits to ensure they’re betting wisely on the future success of their firm. He explains his “money ball” analogy which has gotten attention lately in the press, and whether or not he is the Billy Bean of lateral partner recruiting.  

Quotes 

• “I think the skillset is completely different. It’s all about people, but I think lawyers come to the table who are very intellectually gifted individuals. Dealing with architects is a creative kind of endeavor. They’re kind of chalk and cheese, but they’re trying to get things done, they’re trying to solve problems.” (04:01 | Howard Rosenberg)

• “That’s what’s interesting about my career, even going to architecture school: it’s all transferable skills about learning how to solve problems, it’s just that I do it in a visual way, and now in the business community, I’m kind of rewarded from a strategy/BD perspective about helping clients solve their problems around talent acquisition…It’s all been a very interesting journey. It’s not where I thought I was going to wind up, but it’s been a very, very fulfilling career journey today.” (04:24 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• “Of all those roles that I was involved in, all those great people, for me it always came down to the people. And I saw firsthand how interesting and challenging it was to invite law firm partners to join the partnership through the lateral acquisition process and I thought there had to be a better way to streamline this process.” (11:20 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• “You’re betting. These people are not inexpensive. You’re betting the future reputation of the firm on a handful of people that could really move the dial in a practice area and a geographic location. And I think the time has come that firms can do this; they see talent as an asset class, and that’s totally new territory.” (15:15 | Howard Rosenberg)

Links

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“What makes your brand unique is a combination of tangible and intangible things,” explains Gary Singer, Chief Strategy Officer at Kobre & Kim LLP, who joins The Future is Bright podcast. Gary shares the remarkable story of driving the Altoids brand, which was virtually unknown outside the United States, to astronomical sales. In today’s episode, he discusses his unique approach to branding, which he calls “meaningful differentiation,” and explains the “outside-in” approach that has contributed to his success.

Many entrepreneurs focus on themselves and the ‘what’ they offer consumers, but Gary emphasizes the importance of focusing on ‘who’—identifying a need and learning how to fill it. He shares how, during research for Altoids, they created a target customer named Dan and even had consumers write obituaries for the product to gauge emotional connections.

Gary brought his unique branding approach to the law firm Kobre & Kim LLP. Learn about the innovations happening there and why Gary believes the hardest choice is what to say no to.

Quotes

• “As the product management industry matured, agencies became more and more focused on the creative side and a little less focused on the strategy side. So that’s when I decided I didn’t feel like I continued to have a big enough seat at the table. So, made the switch to McKinsey as a partner, as a direct-to-life partner focused on financial service institutions. And there the idea was the intersection of the creative thinking that I had done at an agency with the linear analytic part of me that came from places like University of Chicago.” (3:59 | Gary Singer)

• “Brand is your unique collection of tangible and intangible benefits. In my mind, for a brand to matter, it needs to communicate meaningful differences versus the alternative. So, if Brand A and Brand B are identical, then the brand doesn’t matter, because I have the same tangible and emotional connections to both of them.” (13:24 | Gary Singer) 

• “There’s a little bit of Dan in all of us. I’m a lot older than 26 right now, but I still would like to be a college kid with resources, and that’s what appealed to this broad group of people. As it’s become more and more of a mass brand, I think it’s losing Dan a little bit and it’s trying to appeal to everybody and maybe losing a little bit of its magic.” (16:52 | Gary Singer)

• “Strategy is making choices and the hardest choice to make is the choice of what you’re not going to do.” (26:32 | Gary Singer)

Links

Connect with Gary Singer:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyisinger/

Law Firm web profile: https://kobrekim.com/people/gary-singer

Columbia Business School Professor website: https://business.columbia.edu/faculty/people/gary-i-singer

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

As the legal profession evolves, the importance of C-suite executives in law firms is rising. Jennifer Johnson, CEO of Calibrate, shares her vision for a future where these executives are equal to managing partners and report to a board.

Calibrate is a management consulting and executive search firm that places top talent in essential C-suite roles within corporate law firms, freeing lawyers to focus on their practice. Jennifer sees these “revenue enablers” as vital for providing the business expertise needed to navigate the industry’s significant changes and challenges.

In this episode of The Future is Bright, Jennifer talks with host Chris Batz about the current state of leadership in the law firm industry, the recruiting process and more. She also shared a personal story of triumph sure to encourage anyone faced with life challenges. 

Tune in to hear her inspiring story and several insights for Law Firm executives!

Quotes

• “The candidates we present to our clients understand a law firm's business and not just their subject matter expertise. They know how to apply that and then work across the business. And, that’s been a breath of fresh air for a lot of law firm leaders.” (4:18 | Jennifer Johnson) 

• “They really do want to practice law, the lawyers, for the most part, that’s what they want to do. So, bringing in these business professionals to help them run the business with them and for them is the smartest thing any of them could do. The day of running law firms by committee and total consensus—I’m not sure you can do that anymore and survive at the rate and pace of change that’s happening.”  (11:32 | Jennifer Johnson) 

• “Just because somebody is really good at making rain, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going to be the best leader.” (16:15 | Jennifer Johnson)

• “At the end of the day, your lawyers are your salesforce. You’ve got a salesforce that are not trained to be salespeople.” (19:58 | Jennifer Johnson)

Links

Connect with Jennifer Johnson:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferjohnsoncalibrate/

Website - https://calibrate-strategies.com/about-calibrate/calibrate-team/jennifer-johnson/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Built on a foundation of collaboration, relationship, and trust, Munsch Hardt Kopf & Harr, a top Dallas-based corporate law firm recognized as one of the city’s best places to work, has strategically served their clients since its founding in 1985. These core values have remained steadfast, even as the market has rapidly evolved, staying true to their Texas roots. 

Phil Appenzeller, CEO of Munsch Hardt Kopf & Harr, discusses what makes the firm special and a couple of reasons why it won Dallas’ award for Best Places to Work for nine out of ten years. He highlights how truly caring for employees at every level contributes to a sticky work culture, leading many to spend their entire careers at the firm.

Tune in to this episode of The Future is Bright to discover what's next for Phil as he concludes his tenure as CEO, including a return to litigation and writing a musical! 

Quotes

• “Lawyers are so relational based, it’s not like you’re coming in and doing an audit on a company. You’re actually coming in, sitting down with a client—I’ve got an individual client right now who’s trying to sell oil and gas interests and—you develop those relationships. I think it’s just a little bit different than those accounting firms that are a little bit more institutionalized.” (8:12 | Phil Appenzeller) 

• “I think clients want to know that if they hire Phil Appenzeller, they’re getting Phil Appenzeller. They’re not getting punted off to some other attorney that they don’t know. I go back to the relational—I just think the practice of law is still relational. I think clients want that relationship. I think the second thing they want is value. Everybody talks about rates. I’m not sure rates are as big an issue as it is ‘Did I get value for the work that was done?’” (8:41 | Phil Appenzeller) 

• “You want to create a place where people are happy coming to work. I always tell people when they ask, ‘Why do you stay at ‘Munsch?’ I say, ‘My best friends are here.’” (22:58 | Phil Appenzeller) 

Links

Connect with Phil Appenzeller:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-appenzeller-59895319/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Columbus Street LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street

The Lion Group LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-lion-group-llc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“I have been really, really lucky in every move that I’ve made to be with really bright people and just be allowed to learn from them,” says today’s guest Aaron Crews who currently serves as chief product and innovation officer and head of enterprise at data and professional services company UnitedLex. On today’s episode of The Future is Bright, Aaron discusses his career trajectory, what it was like living in Silicon Valley at the peak of the tech boom, his innovation role at Littler and the tools he helped to develop. He also describes what he learned about improving business through technology while working for Walmart as Senior Associate General Counsel and head of e-discovery and why Bentonville, a small town in northwest Arkansas is the coolest city in the world. 

AI, Aaron says, is following the same circuit—from service providers, to law firms and then in-house—as e-discovery did nearly fifteen years ago. As writing constitutes such a large part of a lawyer’s training, what will the generation of lawyers look like as AI writing programs all but do the work for them? Aaron shares his thoughts on the ability of AI to help people move up the food chain as well as potentially reengineer the fundamentals of an entire industry. 

What does this mean for a firm whose philosophy is human first, technology second? Join today’s discussion to learn more. 

Quotes

• “One of my superpowers is, I’m too dumb to be afraid.” (8:07 | Aaron Crews) 

• “It’s a small but deep community and all of those people taught me a lot in the process. Sometimes it was a lesson in a case, the other side, at the end of something. And sometimes it was just sitting down and talking to people. ‘How do you think about that? Why do you do it that way? What do you think that should be?’ People are just kind enough to share the way they think so that I can absorb it.” (11:44 | Aaron Crews) 

• “The service providers were the first mover [of e-discovery], law firms then came next and then in-house started saying, ‘How much of this can we bring in and run ourselves?’ And I think you’re seeing that same process replay with AI now and so UnitedLex, in that service provider space really has been the opportunity for the last several years to really get deep in how far you can push the data science envelope in the name of helping and improving and expanding legal services.” (34:24 | Aaron Crews)

• “We build and train lawyers largely through the writing process. Reading. Writing. We build arguments through writing, we refine arguments through writing. We initially assert them through writing and then the oral argument phase is the nuances and the ‘well, what about’s. That entire paradigm is eviscerated in a decade. And what is the model that we’re going to use to build and train lawyers if they’re not writing anything from scratch?” (48:02 | Aaron Crews) 

Links

Connect with Aaron Crews:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ediscoverycounsel/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Marty Cohn, the National Director of Client Engagement at Sheppard Mullin, has a diverse background with significant experience in both consulting and legal sectors in the U.S. Initially steering clear of sales in favor of marketing, Marty's perspective shifted as he recognized the importance of accountability and return on investment (ROI) in marketing, sparking a newfound enthusiasm for sales. In this episode of The Future Is Bright podcast, he sits down with host Chris Batz to delve into the nuances of selling professional services, emphasizing the foundational role of relationships, people, and trust.

During his tenure as the marketing director for the national sports sector at PricewaterhouseCoopers, Marty played a pivotal role in elevating the firm to a leading position among the Big Four's sports practices. He also shares insights from a survey he conducted at Sheppard Mullin, where he gathered opinions from 31 marketing professionals on the current state of sales. Marty discusses his method for identifying potential clients and the criticality of adhering to the American Bar Association's (ABA) best practices.

Join today’s discussion to hear his thoughts on the difference between the worlds of accounting/consulting and the law business, the infinite value of LinkedIn and how he manages to mentor others without actually acting as a mentor.

Quotes

• “In our business, we’re talking about relationships and respect and trust and every interaction is different and every marketing and sales opportunity is different because you’re dealing with a person, not an inanimate object.” (2:06 | Marty Cohn) 

• “It’s a matter of respect and best practices. This is a relationship business, our opportunity to bring in a new client is going to be based on our ability to build a trusted relationship with transparency.” (16:54 | Marty Cohn) 

• “My day is a mix of always looking for potential new clients, following up on existing sales opportunities, following up and being involved in active sales opportunities, working with my partners and our internal teams on all of these pursuits. It’s a big mix.” (18:15 | Marty Cohn)

• “I think there’s so much potential here in our business. It’s tremendously rewarding. I find it to be challenging, fun, every adjective that you can give it is probably in my vocabulary of what goes on day-to-day.” (21:55 | Marty Cohn)

Links

Connect with Marty Cohn:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-cohn-b890363/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“It’s culture through and through,” says Micheal Pierson about Pierson Ferdinand LLC, which he co-chairs with Joel Ferdinand and which recently launched one of the largest law firm launches in U.S. history, counting over 130 partners. The two men join host Chris Batz to discuss the firm, why it’s both ahead of its time and bolstered by timeless principles. Pierson Ferdinand, they say, is about people, happiness and freedom. Where many firms, particularly older ones, are hesitant to embrace technology, theirs thrives on it and the two co-chairs have been practicing the post-COVID-style work model for years now. Having witnessed bosses and supervisors do all the wrong things, they strive to create an open-door environment, where every employee can make their concerns known. They know the importance of listening more than they speak, of admitting they’re wrong—neither of which is easy for lawyers—and putting family first. It’s a mission of service, Joel says, that borders on the biblical. 

In this episode, he and Michael discuss the changing legal landscape in a post-COVID world and in a current climate which includes the war in Ukraine, a potential uncoupling with China, issues with the U.S.’s membership in NATO. What opportunities does all this present for lawyers in the U.S., the largest legal market in the world? Since COVID accelerated profitability of so many Adlaw’s Top 100 and 200 firms, what does this mean for billable time? What do clients and lawyers want?

On this episode of The Future is Bright, Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explore these issues as well as surprising new developments in the last two years which, they say, could push us into a whole new world. 

Quotes

• “We’ve started to see a large uptick in lawyers who are looking for better options who are looking for better alternatives than just practicing at a very large law firm environment. And that’s in large part what Pierson Ferdinand aims to do, which is to redefine the notion of what an elite law firm can be.” (4:45 | Michael Pierson) 

• “Law firms are very resistant to change, being as old as many of them are. And I completely understand that, Michael completely understands that. Clients want change.” (5:48 | Joel Ferdinand)

• “It’s a pretty turbulent time and it’s one of these times where we can be a very steady hand for our clients in their business affairs, but fundamentally it’s a tumultuous time to be on this planet.” (12:34 | Michael Pierson)

• “This is one of the core tenets of Pierson Ferdinand: it’s culture through and through.”  (13:32 | Michael Pierson) 

• “Lawyers typically are so antagonistic to tech.” (23:56 | Joel Ferdinand)

• “To me, this is biblical. When Michael said we believe in service and leadership, we do. That comes from something very specific for me, and much like Michael said, I watched for close to 20 years of a career, would-be bosses or supervisors even in my early stages, be awful. They’d yell at you, they’d cuss at you, they’d haze you. Because they thought that was the cultural environment of a law firm, or of a business. And I watched it from a distance before I got into C-suites and once I got into C-suites, I watched it closely and tried to do something different.” (31:39 | Joel Ferdinand) 

Links

Connect with Michael Pierson | Co-Chairman & Corporate:

Website: https://pierferd.com/michael-pierson

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amichaelpierson/

Joel Ferdinand | Co-Chairman & Litigation:

Website: https://pierferd.com/joel-m-ferdinand

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-ferdinand-a7518519/

https://pierferd.com/news/pierson-ferdinand-debuts

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“You can only divvy up the pie so much and distribute it so much before it starts eating into the profitability,” says Dan Binstock who, with Gary Miles, returns to the podcast to discuss the latest trends in corporate law partnership. More and more major law firms are shortening the length of time it takes for their associates to make partner, or bestowing the title of partner to those who are, in practice, really senior associates. This allows firms to to charge partner-level prices while clients receiving associate-level prices. This raises issues about quality,integrity, transparency. How long can such a practice continue before firms’ integrity and performance are sacrificed for short-term profitability? What happens when firms over-leverage themselves? 

By misrepresenting their statistics, Gary explains, more and more firms are robbing valuable players of their due recognition and compensation, and the profits are split among a larger pool of people. Part of the problem is the psychological pressure on both sides–firms don’t want to look like they’re not expanding (and therefore falling behind), and so they offer partnerships to candidates who want to feel like they have a seat at the table. 

Part of a recruiter’s job, Dan explains, is to help partners understand what equity means at different firms. He, Gary, and Chris discuss what will happen when, with inflation, rates continue to go up and the inevitable pullback comes. They also explain why firms should think in terms of categories and not tiers. 

Quotes

• “There are a whole bunch of other reasons, like recruiting benefits and profitabilities increasing and going so much higher, you can only divvy up the pie so much and distribute it so much before it starts eating into the profitability. And as we’ve got groups and groups of people who are really skilled but  may not have the business development chops to bring in as much business, putting them into equity may dilute the profits.” (11:23 | Dan)

• “More firms are increasingly needing a home for the people whom they don’t want to lose, who are very, very valuable but who aren’t yet equity-ready, for one reason or another. They’re losing these people to other firms who are saying, ‘Come over here, we’ll make you an equity partner.’ And it’s an ego and a marketing thing–well, calling it an ego thing is not fair. It’s not just ego, it’s marketing and feeling like even if you’ve got a small seat at the table, it’s still some type of seat.” (12:04 | Dan)

• “You could be a partner that’s on the lower end, or in the middle, and you did what you were supposed to do but you didn't receive any overrun. It has nothing to do with the firm’s performance. The firm took that money, put it into their bonus pool that all equity partners share in, but then disperses it very unevenly.” (18:19 | Gary)

• “I think, really, the whole term of equity, at a lot of firms, is just that: it’s just nomenclature. We all know, at most firms, you have as much equity as the contribution you make to the firm, usually in the form of business. That’s generally where the equity lies.” (20:04 | Gary) 

• “One thing we don’t talk enough about–and this plays at the associate level but plays even more at the partner level of recruiting–is how much psychological and political stuff is baked into the cake already. How important it is for law firm leaders, or the pressure law firm leaders feel, to stay consistent in where they are or rising in the ‘outward presentation of a hierarchical ecosystem of firms.’” (35:06 | Gary)

Links

Bloomberg Law Article: One Tiny Number Shows Why More Firms Want Non Equity Partners

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/one-tiny-number-shows-why-more-firms-want-nonequity-partners

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Garrison: https://g-s.com

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/

Connect with Gary Miles:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Why do we have this problem with such smart people, the brightest of the brights, attorneys at such top firms, getting wrapped up with shady people?” asks Dan Binstock, who returns, with Gary Miles, to the podcast to discuss the less-than-ethical practices employed by legal recruiters that potential candidates need to watch out for. Part of the problem, they explain, is that for all of their advanced education, most candidates are woefully uneducated in this area of recruiting, not to mention many firms fall for the fallacy that if they’re not actively growing they’re shrinking. So, a fast-talking, sales-focused recruiter who’s willing to cut ethical corners and appeal to a candidates’ healthy ego, can convince the candidate to make a decision that could alter the course of their career. 

The answer, they agree, is doing the same due diligence as a candidate that one does as a lawyer. Ask the right questions, many examples of which are provided in today’s discussion. Take your time; listen to what is said and what is not said. Don’t fall for fast answers or, as Gary says, give the recruiter an inch of rope and let them think they’re a cowboy. 

Dan and Chris act out a series of role plays to give you a better idea of how to remain in control of the conversation with deceptive legal recruiters. They’ll also go over the importance of expressed consent when closing out a conversation. 

Quotes

• “A lot of people who are drawn to recruiting or sales in general tend to be people that, maybe are really good talkers, and may not have the highest ethical barometers and may fudge the corners a little bit.” (7:32 | Dan) 

• “A lot of firms think that if they do the deal with the “unethical recruiter” at least, for some period of time, according to their fee agreement, the person will not call in their lawyers to try to move someone out of their firm. So it gets to be a cost/benefit analysis.”  (14:12 | Gary)

• “You do so much diligence, so much preparation, so much finding out what is going to impact your clients’ situation in any given context or business that they’re involved in. Yet, when it comes to a partner’s career, and making one of the most important decisions they’re going to make if I’m going to move from my firm, if so, where? What will be the best fit for me and my practice? What is the potential for long term success? A lot of partners won’t do any diligence.” (20:25 | Gary) 

• “If they can’t speak about the search for at least 60 seconds, they don’t know. They’re just going off, you can hear them looking at a website. ‘Oh, this is a firm that has offices in Washington, DC, New York, Charlotte, Chicago, Boston, yeah, nine offices in…’ And if it looks like they’re reading through a script? Bulls**t.” (29:42 | Dan)

Links

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Garrison: https://g-s.com

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/

Connect with Gary Miles:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

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