In northern Italy,  Alba, Barolo and Barbaresco have become wine tourist destinations. How can you make the most of your visit to these regions in Piemonte? Why should you try a Nebbiolo wine from Roero? Why is there so much excitement about the sparkling wines of Piemonte now?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with David Way, author of the terrific book The Wines of Piemonte.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you will win a copy of his terrific new book, The Wines of Piemonte. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What should you know about Gaja and the Barbaresco cooperative?

Why did David have to wait outside a Barbaresco winery for an hour past his appointment without any explanation?

How does Moscato d’Asti compare to Champagne, and why is it often undervalued?

What are the differences between how Moscato d'Asti and Prosecco are produced?

What is the history of sparkling wine production in Piemonte, including the pioneering work of Carlo Gancia?

What can you expect from the red sparkling wines of Piemonte?

Why should you try a Nebbiolo from Roero and what characteristics can you anticipate?

How can you plan a fascinating wine trip to Piemonte? 

Key Takeaways

 David notes that Alba, Barolo and Barbaresco have beautiful landscapes, amazing wines, and incredible cuisine with lots of lovely small Michelin-starred restaurants. There are also boutique hotels that are relatively inexpensive. 

There is a region called Roero, which is 20 minutes north of Alba. What people don't know about Roero, is that it's also an excellent source of Nebbiolo wines, at much lower prices. 

Piemonte has both tank method and traditional method sparkling wines. Traditional method sparkling wine made in the bottle is typical of two areas outside Piemonte, Franciacorta and Trentodoc. But Piemonte is actually the pioneer of that style. 

About David Way

David Way initially specialized in the wines of the Tuscan Maremma before broadening his interests to the rest of Italy and beyond. He works as Senior Researcher on the five textbooks for the WSET Level 4 Diploma in Wines. In his own name, David wrote The Wines of Piemonte . The book gives unparalleled coverage of one of Italy’s most important regions and includes 200 producer profiles. The book was honoured by the OIV at its award ceremony in Lisbon in 2024.

Bonus Interview – Jo Penn: Highlights

How can you legally protect yourself as a writer?

What can writers do to engage readers and especially book clubs?

What are some of my multiple streams of income as a writer?

About Jo Penn

Jo Penn is an award-winning New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of horror, thrillers, dark fantasy, crime, and travel memoirs, as well as short stories. She’s also an award-winning podcaster. Her latest novel is Blood Vintage, a folk horror story set in an English vineyard.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/316.

Are you curious about the wines of Piemonte in northern Italy? Why are Barolo and Barbaresco often compared with Burgundy? What makes Nebbiolo unique as a grape?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with David Way, author of the new book The Wines of Piemonte.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you will win a copy of his terrific new book, The Wines of Piemonte. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What makes David's book, The Wines of Piemonte, different from other Italian wine books?

How does Piemonte compare geographically to other well-known Italian wine regions?

Why does the Piemonte region have so many wine denominations and what are the challenges this presents?

What approach does David recommend for understanding Piemonte denominations?

Why is Piemonte often compared to Burgundy?

What are the unique qualities of Piemonte’s signature grape, Nebbiolo?

How has Nebbiolo evolved from the “tannic monster” of the past?

How do Nebbiolo and Barbera grapes compare?

Should you decant your wines?

Key Takeaways

Much has been written about the Barolo and Barbaresco appellations of Piemonte but very little about the rest of the region.

Barolo and Barbaresco have many small plots owned by many small growers so in that sense, it's very much like Burgundy. It’s also similar in that tiny differences of altitude, soil type, vineyard orientation, and wind direction make big differences in the final wine. 

David believes that the magic of Nebbiolo is its extraordinary aromatic complexity and amazing structure. It has structure, but not too overt in that it still has a silky and textured and it can age for decades.

About David Way

David Way initially specialized in the wines of the Tuscan Maremma before broadening his interests to the rest of Italy and beyond. He works as Senior Researcher on the five textbooks for the WSET Level 4 Diploma in Wines. In his own name, David wrote The Wines of Piemonte (Classic Wine Library, 2023). The book gives unparalleled coverage of one of Italy’s most important regions and includes 200 producer profiles. The book was honoured by the OIV at its award ceremony in Lisbon in 2024.

Bonus Interview – Jo Penn: Highlights

What are the challenges of writing memoir compared to more journalistic writing?

How does it feel to be a supertaster?

How does the concept of "terroir" in wine compare to the development of a writer's unique voice?

About Jo Penn

Jo Penn is an award-winning New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of horror, thrillers, dark fantasy, crime, and travel memoirs, as well as short stories. She’s also an award-winning podcaster. She has a Master’s in Theology from the University of Oxford. Her latest novel is Blood Vintage, a folk horror story set in an English vineyard.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/315.

Why is it so difficult to describe wine? How did England pave the way for Champagne as we know it today? What do winemaking and gardening share beyond being plant-based?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Hugh Johnson.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you will win a copy of his marvellous memoir, The Life and Wines of Hugh Johnson. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What’s behind Hugh’s decades-long love for Bordeaux?

How did Hugh’s first book about trees come about?

How has writing about wine and about horticulture influenced each other?

Are there commonalities between gardening and winemaking?

Where was Hugh’s favourite place to enjoy wine?

What was it like tasting wine with former Dom Pérignon chef de cave Richard Geoffroy?

How did England pave the way for Champagne as we know it today?

What did Hugh’s friendships with Elizabeth David and André Simon teach him about food and wine?

What was it like tasting a wine that was made hundreds of years ago?

What’s the difference between wines of "curiosity" versus "conviction"?

Where does Hugh think the future of wine communication will go?

What does Hugh hope his legacy to the wine world will be?

Key Takeaways

As Hugh observes, the essence of writing is comparing one experience to another. He tries to exploit the wonderful vocabulary of the English language which unites the brilliance of the Latin languages and the German school. However, there are no words that actually match the taste of wine.

As Hugh explains that to keep the cork in a champagne bottle they used to tie it with string. The wine fermented in the bottle and the bottle exploded because the French didn't have bottles that would take the pressure. But England did and it's an interesting story. Under King James the First, at the beginning of the 17th century, they had to build a big fleet for the Navy to protect the country. The King decreed that all the good oak trees were for the ships only. So if you're going to make glass, you need a furnace at a very high temperature. So they had to use coal instead of wood. Coal mainly comes from the north of England, in Newcastle. These glass furnaces got really hot, and the glass got darker, but it also got stronger. And they found that it could take the pressure of bubbly wine.

Winemaking and gardening both apply human skills, intelligence, and taste to natural objects. He observes who needs 450 varieties of roses. They're not needed, but they interest people, and people enjoy them.

About Hugh Johnson

Hugh Johnson is the world’s best-known wine writer, having sold more than 20 million books worldwide over a 60-year career. He began acquiring his wine knowledge as a member of the Wine and Food Society at Cambridge University before becoming a feature writer for Vogue and House & Garden magazines.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/314.

Are you curious what it would be like to ask for wine advice from legendary Hugh Johnson, author of The World Atlas of Wine, among many other books? What would he advise you on how you can improve your wine-tasting skill and pleasure? Why was Hugh initially against wine scoring and how has his perspective changed over the years? What makes a wine great in Hugh’s opinion? Why does Hugh now prefer English sparkling wines over his long-time favourite Pol Roger Champagne?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Hugh Johnson.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you will win a copy of his marvellous memoir, The Life and Wines of Hugh Johnson. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What is it about Chablis that makes it Hugh’s favourite white wine?

How have English sparkling wines changed over the years and why does Hugh now turn to them more than his long-time favourite Champagne Pol Roger?

Why is it important to taste high-quality wines at the beginning of your wine journey, if you can afford it?

How can you improve your wine-tasting skill and pleasure?

How did Hugh’s first writing job at Vogue magazine lead to his extensive wine writing career?

How did The World Atlas of Wine revolutionize the way wine and wineries were understood?

What have been the most surprising changes Hugh has seen in the wine world over the years?

What was it like for Hugh to buy his first case of First Growth Bordeaux?

How does Hugh remember his first encounter with Robert Parker's wine scoring system and his initial skepticism?

Key Takeaways

What advice does Hugh have on improving your wine-tasting skill and pleasure? The first thing you have to do is concentrate on the wine. Look at the color, sniff it, take a sip, but then when you take a sip, think about it. Keep it in your mouth for a moment or two, chew on it. Swirl it around until it registers, and you experience the wine more fully.

Hugh asks how can you score wine any more than you can score Mozart or your friends? He didn’t believe in an objective scale or giving the wrong impression that one wine is better than another. Over the years, he’s accepted scoring within a narrow range say for wine competition categories where all the wines are from the same region and grape.

Hugh says he’s had an account with the house of Pol Roger for about 60 years but more recently, he’s been switching to English sparkling wine. He observes they have a brilliant wine industry in England. Climate change is part of it, but they’re also now using champagne grapes to make the wine.

About Hugh Johnson

Hugh Johnson is the world’s best-known wine writer, having sold more than 20 million books worldwide over a 60-year career. He began acquiring his wine knowledge as a member of the Wine and Food Society at Cambridge University before becoming a feature writer for Vogue and House & Garden magazines.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/313.

How can you train your sense of smell? Why does smelling require much more focus than our other senses? What is retronasal olfaction and why is it so important when it comes to enjoying wine?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with author Johannes Frasnelli.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

Do wine aroma kits help to improve our ability to smell and taste wine?

What positive changes occur in the brains of master sommeliers?

How does our emotional state influence our ability to perceive scents?

Do humans have pheromones, and how can our body odours influence each other?

Is there a difference in how our brains process wine aromas compared to synthetic scents?

How is olfactory marketing used by certain brands to improve their customer experience?

What is the role of retronasal olfaction in wine tasting and flavour perception?

What is synesthesia, and how does it relate to perception in wine tasting?

What are the main factors that influence the recovery of the sense of smell?

Which areas of olfactory research are Johannes most excited about?

Key Takeaways

Johannes explains that master sommeliers train their brain’s sense of smell just as many people train physically when they go to the gym. The key is to make it challenging. What we can train most about smell is its connection with language. It’s important to talk about the smells we detect with each other. It's not enough just to have odors go by. You have to actively try to identify them.

Smelling is difficult for humans Johannes observes. We can oversee a visual scenery very quickly. With smelling, we don't have these abilities. When we smell something in our environment, it is much more work for us to identify the particular odors, and we have to concentrate. We don't do that a lot. So you need to have the mental spare time to focus.

Johannes says that retronasal olfaction is not only when you swallow wine, it's also when you have it in your mouth. When sommeliers swish the wine around their mouths, the molecules heat up and get pushed up into the nasal cavity, which is also part of the retro nasal component. You can test this by just pinching your nose. You won't smell because it's blocked in the front, the air cannot enter. Then as soon as you release the nose, then you will have this additional smell dimension. Retronasal olfaction is really the key player when it comes to smell and flavor perception.

About Johannes Frasnelli

After being trained as a physician at University of Vienna, Austria, Johannes Frasnelli was a visiting scientist in research labs in Dresden, Germany, in Philadelphia, PA, in Stockholm, Sweden, and in Bozen, Italy. He is currently a professor for human anatomy at the University of Quebec at Trois-Rivières (UQTR), while also being a regular researcher at the Research Center of the Sacré-Coeur Hospital of Montreal. His research focuses on the physiology, the psychology and the pathology of the sense of smell.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/312.

Why is smell, often called the Cinderella sense, so underrated in our culture, especially when many luxury products, such as wine, spirits and perfume, are based on it? Even though dogs have more than twice the number of scent receptors than humans, why are we better at detecting wine aromas? What might surprise you about how we perceive the senses of taste and smell? Why is the sense of smell so evocative compared to other senses?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with author Johannes Frasnelli.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What were some of the most memorable smells from Johannes’ childhood?

How did Johannes first become fascinated with the subject of smell and the science behind it?

What were the most surprising things Johannes discovered about our sense of smell in his research so far?

What might surprise you about how we perceive the senses of taste and smell?

Why is the sense of smell often undervalued compared to other senses like sight?

How does the process of smell work?

What’s the connection between the trigeminal nerve and wine tasting?

What’s the difference between taste and flavor, and how do they work together?

How does our sense of smell compare to animals like dogs?

Do men and women perceive smells differently?

Why is the sense of smell so evocative compared to other senses?

How can expectations and language influence our smell perception?

Key Takeaways

Johannes explains that there’s a myth about us not having as good a sense of smell as other animals, but this has its roots in the 19th century, when Darwinian ideas emerged. Suddenly, we were just another animal and not this creation of God. So different players, including the Catholic Church. It’s these senses that are very developed for us as humans such as sight versus smell.

In the context of wine, Johannes says, humans are particularly sensitive, and this may be an evolutionary advantage. Our ancestors became much more sensitive to these odors than carnivores that didn’t eat fruit. So while we have fewer smell receptors, we have a better performing brain to interpret and apply the information.

The regions of the brain responsible for olfactory processing belong to the limbic system, which is also responsible for other functions such as emotions, memory, learning, and reward. So when we smell something, we also stimulate our memories, emotions, desire for rewards, etc.

About Johannes Frasnelli

After being trained as a physician at University of Vienna, Austria, Johannes Frasnelli was a visiting scientist in research labs in Dresden, Germany, in Philadelphia, PA, in Stockholm, Sweden, and in Bozen, Italy. He is currently a professor for human anatomy at the University of Quebec at Trois-Rivières (UQTR), while also being a regular researcher at the Research Center of the Sacré-Coeur Hospital of Montreal. His research focuses on the physiology, the psychology and the pathology of the sense of smell.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/311.

What might surprise you about the impact of alcohol on heart disease? How can wine drinkers reduce the risk of certain cancers with one supplement? Does wine help protect against cognitive decline and dementia? Why do some organizations make extreme recommendations for eliminating alcohol?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with author Tony Edwards.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you will win a copy of his terrific new book, The Very Good News About Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

What positive health effects were found in Harvard’s long-term research on alcohol and heart disease?

How can wine consumption decrease the risk of certain cancers?

What did the Mayo Clinic study find about the relationship between women and red wine?

How does the concept of absolute risk versus relative risk contribute to sensational headlines?

What’s the connection between folate and cancer risk and how does alcohol consumption affect this dynamic?

How might wine protect against cognitive decline and dementia?

Why does wine play such an important part in the longevity puzzle for certain populations?

What is the surprising relationship between wine consumption and inflammation?

Why does Tony believe the World Health Organization's 2023 declaration that no level of alcohol consumption is safe is rooted in an anti-alcohol agenda rather than evidence?

What’s happening with alcohol-labeling legislation in Ireland, and how might it spread to other countries?

What were the problems with the controversial drinking guidelines proposed in Canada, and where did they come from?

Key Takeaways

Folate is depleted by alcohol. Harvard researchers discovered that if you give women folate in supplement form, women drinkers will reduce their risk of breast cancer massively to the extent of wiping out the risk.

Wine helps protect against cognitive decline and dementia. According to a large Swedish study that showed that women who drank wine exclusively had a 75% reduced risk of Alzheimer's.

Some organizations make extreme recommendations for eliminating alcohol consumption altogether, despite the research showing otherwise and Tony thinks the problem is that they find the idea of the J curve very difficult to explain.

About Tony Edwards

Former BBC science documentary producer/director/writer. Now specializing in medical research journalism, Tony Edwards is a former BBC TV producer/ director/ writer, with over 80 science documentaries to his credit, some winning awards from such bodies as the British Medical Association. After the BBC, he wrote on science, technology and medicine for The Sunday Times, Readers Digest, Daily Mail and a wide variety of medical magazines. He is married to the broadcaster and novelist Debbie Rix; they have two grown-up children, three hens and four cats, and live in rural Kent.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/310.

Have the health risks of moderate wine consumption been grossly overstated? How does moderate wine consumption reduce heart disease? What is the ideal amount and pattern of wine consumption for maximum health benefits, and how does it differ between men and women?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with author Tony Edwards.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Three of you will win a copy of his terrific new book, The Very Good News About Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

How did Tony’s experience as a BBC producer and a medical columnist shape his approach to researching and writing about wine?

Why does Tony believe the glycemic index is more accurate than the calorie theory for measuring food values?

What impact does alcohol have on your insulin response?

What does research show about the benefits of dry wine for diabetics?

What motivated Tony to revisit the topic of alcohol and health a decade after his first book, The Good News About Booze?

Which aspects of synthesizing decades of research on wine and health did Tony find most challenging?

Why was wine prescribed in UK hospitals and by physicians during the Prohibition era in North America?

What is the ideal amount and pattern of wine consumption for maximum health benefits?

How does the J-curve demonstrate the extent of the health benefits of wine for heart health and diabetes?

Does the alcohol in wine influence its health benefits?

What are the health implications of non-alcoholic wines compared to moderate consumption of regular wine?

Key Takeaways

Tony explains that the alcohol consumption guidelines are completely the inverse of what the evidence says. He wondered why the guidelines were being reduced to a level that actually no one benefits from moderate wine consumption. Study after study shows wine is really good news.

Tony observes that it’s actually the collection of polyphenols in wine that have the beneficial effect rather than simply resveratrol alone. It's the interaction of these polyphenols with each other that produces a benefit.

Tony notes that a study in 2018 came to the conclusion that for men, the maximum optimum intake of wine per day was 60 grams, which is about two-thirds of the bottle, and for women, half that.

About Tony Edwards

Former BBC science documentary producer/director/writer. Now specializing in medical research journalism, Tony Edwards is a former BBC TV producer/ director/ writer, with over 80 science documentaries to his credit, some winning awards from such bodies as the British Medical Association. After the BBC, he wrote on science, technology and medicine for The Sunday Times, Readers Digest, Daily Mail and a wide variety of medical magazines. He is married to the broadcaster and novelist Debbie Rix; they have two grown-up children, three hens and four cats, and live in rural Kent.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/309.

Why do certain musty or animalistic aromas, like barnyard or manure, become more acceptable to wine lovers over time? What does minerality really mean when it comes to wine? Why is mouthfeel so important to appreciating wine? How does the colour of wine influence our perception of how it tastes?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Master of Wine, Gus Zhu.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Giveaway

Two of you will a copy of his terrific new book, Behind the Glass: The Chemical and Sensorial Terroir of Wine Tasting.

To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck!

Highlights

Why do certain musty or animalistic aromas, like barnyard or manure, become more acceptable to wine lovers over time?

What’s behind the perception of saltiness and minerality in wine?

How do we misunderstand sweetness when it comes to wine?

Why have we developed more complex perceptions of bitterness, and how does it influence our experience of tannins in wine?

Why is mouthfeel so important in wine tasting?

How does colour affect our perception of wine?

What are the most interesting aspects of oak aging in wine, and why is there so much diversity?

Why is it important to embrace sensory differences in wine tasting?

Key Takeaways

Gus believes that the wine industry or even the media is trying to promote a certain style of wine and make people believe that many people love wines that have specific smells and taste like barnyard.

Gus observes that acidity and minerality are such vague terms and concepts that people in the wine industry discuss. When people say minerality, they may be referring to many different things.

Mouthfeel adds several other dimensions to taste, which makes wine tasting even more interesting. When blind tasting, many people depend on smell but he encourages them to pay attention to the textual, tactile sensations from the wine as well.

People usually look at the color first because it's straightforward, even though we could see colours a bit differently from each other. Even though we want to be objective, we cannot. We could be even more biased when we see things first. For example, there are already studies showing that if you color white wine as a red wine colour, and ask people to smell it, they came up with all these descriptors that are related to red wines.

About Gus Zhu

Gus Zhu is the first Chinese national to become a Master of Wine. He works as a research and development scientist at Harv 81 Group, specializing in chemical analysis and sensory studies of aroma compounds in wine, cork, and oak. Gus holds a Master of Science degree in Viticulture and Enology from UC Davis, which he earned in 2017, and achieved his MW qualification in 2019. In addition to his research in flavor chemistry and sensory science, Gus is a professional wine educator, offering tutorials to wine enthusiasts around the world.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/308.

Can you learn to appreciate aromas such as spice, petrol, and even gamey or foxy notes in wine? And would you want to, or should you? How can you better understand the taste of umami in what you eat and drink? How do culture and lifestyle influence your perception of the aromas and taste of wine?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Master of Wine, Gus Zhu.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What was the moment Gus realized he wanted to make wine his career?

How did it feel to become the first Chinese Master of Wine (MW)?

Which aspects of Gus’ multicultural education helped him pass his MW exam on the first try?

What is Gus’ book, Behind the Glass, about?

What makes Behind the Glass different from other books on wine science?

What are chemical terroir and sensorial terroir?

What was the most surprising thing Gus learned while researching and writing Behind the Glass?

Why is the concept of the “tongue map” wrong, and what do we now know about how our tastebuds work?

How can you better understand the taste of umami?

Can you learn to appreciate vegetal and herbal aromas in wine?

How do terpenes present in wine aromas, and why do people like them?

Why might supertasters be at a disadvantage in the modern world?

How do culture and lifestyle influence your perception of the aromas and taste of wine?

Key Takeaways

As Gus explains, we evolved to reject certain smells for our survival. For example, if a plant or fruit or food smells vegetal, it's a sign of under ripeness so it either doesn’t taste good or isn’t nutritious enough for consumption. In some cases, it could mean that it’s poisonous. So it makes sense then that we may not like vegetal aromas in wine.

In Asian countries, Gus says, they have a longer history with fermented food and drink. They also don’t over season or over cook protein dishes so that the taste of umami remains. Umami comes from the amino acids in protein, but we often get confused because we combine our proteins with fat, salt, and other things. If you barbecue a mushroom and don’t season it, the juice or broth released in the little dent in the mushroom is a savory, yummy, umami taste.

Gus believes that we should pay more attention to what we eat and drink. He believes that people who like the Chinese experience a more diverse range of flavours and develop a greater appreciation for them. Similarly, we develop a greater vocabulary to express what we’re eating and drinking when we think about it.

About Gus Zhu

Gus Zhu is the first Chinese national to become a Master of Wine. He works as a research and development scientist at Harv 81 Group, specializing in chemical analysis and sensory studies of aroma compounds in wine, cork, and oak. Gus holds a Master of Science degree in Viticulture and Enology from UC Davis, which he earned in 2017, and achieved his MW qualification in 2019. In addition to his research in flavor chemistry and sensory science, Gus is a professional wine educator, offering tutorials to wine enthusiasts around the world.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/307.

How far would you go for that first evocative taste of an elusive wine? Why should you try wines and books outside your comfort zone? How is folklore as rooted in a sense of place as much as wine is?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author Jo Penn.

You can find the wines we discussed at https://www.nataliemaclean.com/winepicks

Highlights

What’s the significance of terroir and what are the parallels with a writer’s voice?

How did Jo make sure to capture the sensory details when writing Blood Vintage?

Why does Jo recommend watching the TV show Drops of God?

How did Jo weave folklore and pagan rituals into Blood Vintage?

What is the genre of "folk horror,” and how does it differ from traditional horror?

What was the most difficult part off writing Blood Vintage?

Why did Jo decide to launch Blood Vintage through Kickstarter?

If Jo could share a bottle of wine with anyone, who would it be, and what wine would they open?

Why should you try wines outside your comfort zone?

Key Takeaways

As Jo asks, what will we do for that one more taste, especially of your first great wine that turned you on to wine? Some people spend their lives and fortunes chasing after certain tastes, which is why they get suckered into buying fake bottles for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s a thin, blurry line between obsession and addiction. Sometimes, it’s not simply the taste that compels us; it’s also the experience of recapturing another time, perhaps with a friend or loved one.

Jo is an advocate of encouraging people to try different kinds of wine, without being intimidated by the descriptions that some of us wine writers can use when we get carried away with esoteric or florid prose. Rein it in, Nat! Visiting smaller vineyards is an excellent way to try new wines and to support local winemakers. My advice is parallel to Jo’s when it comes to books. Try something outside your reading genre once in a while. I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed her folk horror novel. It expanded my literary taste buds.

Jo explains that folklore includes the traditional beliefs, rituals and superstitions connected to a certain area. It's rooted in the community and very much terroir-based, like wine. For example, in her area of England they have the Green Man which is the face of a fertility god covered in vine leaves. It appears in a lot of their cathedrals with the odd juxtaposition of Christianity and ancient fertility god. What connects them is the place.

About Jo Penn

Jo Penn is an award-winning New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of horror, thrillers, dark fantasy, crime, travel memoirs, and short stories. She’s also an award-winning podcaster. She has a Master's in Theology from the University of Oxford. Her latest novel is Blood Vintage, a folk horror story set in an English vineyard.

To learn more, visit https://www.nataliemaclean.com/306.