Xmas Special: From Project-Driven to Flow-Driven Software Development in 2025 with Vasco Duarte

In the kickoff episode of the “5 Wishes for 2025” series, Vasco Duarte dives into a topic close to his heart: why managing software like construction projects leads to failure. Drawing on his experience in the Agile community and sharing compelling real-world examples, Vasco introduces a new perspective on how software development should flow, adapt, and continuously deliver value.

Software Development: Stop Building Houses, Start Growing Gardens

“Software is more like a garden than a construction site—continuous care and attention are key to thriving.”

Vasco begins by debunking the myth that software development can be meticulously planned like a construction project. Sharing a story about a failed 18-month software endeavor, he highlights how rigid plans crumble in the face of changing markets. Instead, he advocates for an adaptive, flow-based approach to software development, comparing it to the continuous nurturing required in a garden.

Why Projects Fall Short in Software Development

“You can’t plan your year’s meals in January—why would you try that with software?”

Vasco identifies three critical flaws of project-driven software development:

1. Assumption of Stability: Markets and requirements shift too fast for static plans.

2. Front-loaded Decisions: Early decisions often fail to hold up over time.

3. Artificial Boundaries: Restrictive scopes kill innovation and flexibility.

The Three-Step Framework for Flow-Based Software Development 1. Continuous Delivery

“Software is like a shark—it has to keep moving or it dies.”

Vasco explains how companies can succeed by continuously delivering updates to users. He shares insights from a mobile startup using experiments and feedback loops to keep evolving and delivering measurable value.

2. Incremental Funding

“Fund software like a business, not like a construction project.”

Drawing on ideas from Lean-Agile financial planning, Vasco introduces incremental funding as a smarter way to manage development. He points listeners to a previous episode with experts Maarit Laanti and Rami Sirkia for deeper insights.

3. Goal-Oriented Teams

“Teams need goals, not just backlogs.”

Vasco stresses the importance of giving teams end-to-end ownership of the value they create. The backlog is a tool, but the real focus should be on clear goals that align with business impact. He mentions his OTOG - One-Team-One-Goal blog post. 

Raising Agility to the Portfolio Level

“Flow-based software development lets us make quick, strategic decisions at the portfolio level.”

By embracing continuous delivery, incremental funding, and goal-driven teams, organizations can elevate agility from individual teams to the entire portfolio. Vasco highlights this as a game-changer for modern businesses, enabling quicker, smarter product decisions.

Global Agile Summit 2025 – Don’t Miss Out!

“Join us in Tallinn to see flow-based software delivery in action.”

Vasco invites listeners to the Global Agile Summit 2025, where real-world examples of flow-based development will take center stage. For those listening during the holiday season, there’s a Super Early Bird ticket available with a 75% discount. Visit GlobalAgileSummit.com for details.

About Vasco Duarte

Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success.

You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.

BONUS: A Coaching Masterclass - How Our Language Affects Our Leadership Style, And The Culture We Create, With Michelle Pauk and Victor Pena

In this BONUS episode, Victor Pena and Michelle Pauk dive deep into the power of language in shaping our work as leaders, Agile Coaches, and Scrum Masters. Together, we explore how the words we use influence relationships, decisions, and the success of Agile practices. From navigating the ambiguity of language to fostering effective communication, this episode provides actionable insights to help you thrive in a constantly changing workplace.

Language as a Culture Carrier

“Language is how we carry culture, but without clarity, it can lead to misalignment and conflict.”

Victor and Michelle discuss how language reflects and shapes workplace culture. Misaligned terminology—like “servant leader”—can create tension between teams and executives. They highlight the importance of achieving shared understanding and the role of language in fostering trust and collaboration.

“Start by asking what others mean by key words—it’s the first step toward alignment.”

Feedforward vs. Feedback

“Feedback gets us stuck in the past, while feedforward builds a path to a better future.”

Drawing inspiration from Marshall Goldsmith, we discuss how focusing on future-oriented improvement (feedforward) avoids the blame game and builds positive momentum. As Agile practitioners, shifting from root cause analysis to solution-focused coaching allows teams to move forward effectively.

“Ask yourself, what can we do better tomorrow instead of dwelling on what went wrong yesterday?”

The Ambiguity of Language in Collaboration

“Words mean different things to different people—be curious about how others see the world.”

Victor and Michelle unpack how language ambiguity impacts communication and decision-making. They emphasize the need to explore the assumptions behind others’ words and how Agile principles like #NoEstimates challenge traditional views on planning and work management.

“When you encounter a term that seems obvious, ask: What does this mean to you?”

Semiotics and the Language of Work

“Symbols are the silent drivers of collaboration.”

Semiotics, the study of symbols, plays a vital role in Agile practices like visual management. From story cards to team boards, symbols help teams communicate and navigate their work. The duo discusses how the language of Agile evolves through symbols and how to introduce these effectively in organizations.

“Create visual symbols that align with your team’s values—they’ll anchor your collaboration.”

Beyond the “Agile is Dead” Debate, Raising The Bar Of Our Shared Conversation

“What’s trying to come forward in the evolution of Agile?”

While some criticize Agile as outdated, Victor and Michelle argue that its core principles—delivering value faster and improving quality—remain timeless. They explore how Agile can evolve to meet current challenges while retaining its essence.

“Instead of asking if Agile is dead, ask what the next evolution looks like.”

About Victor Pena and Michelle Pauk

Victor Pena is an Agile Coach dedicated to helping organizations achieve business agility. With a focus on innovation, collaboration, and delivering great customer value, Victor transforms practices to ensure long-term success in a dynamic environment.

You can link with Victor Pena on LinkedIn and connect with him via email at [email protected].

Michelle Pauk is the founder of Streamside Coaching, helping leaders and organizations thrive through change. With over 15 years of experience in Agile environments and certifications from the International Coaching Federation, Michelle specializes in leadership development and organizational growth.

You can link with Michelle Pauk on LinkedIn and connect with her at StreamsideCoaching.com.

Karthiga Seturaj: The Isolated Product Owner, Lacking Collaboration and Engagement

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

The Great Product Owner: Dealing With Uncertainty and Growing Team Trust

Karthiga shares the characteristics of an exemplary Product Owner, emphasizing their ability to navigate ambiguity and support their teams during challenging moments. Great Product Owners demonstrate strong leadership, foster team relationships, and celebrate successes, contributing to a positive and collaborative environment.

The Bad Product Owner: The Isolated PO, Lacking Collaboration and Engagement

Karthiga discusses anti-patterns in Product Ownership, including the absence of strong relationships with developers and testers. A “bad” PO often fails to collaborate effectively within the “three amigos” framework or acts solely as a task scribe. These behaviors hinder refinement and the overall development process, emphasizing the need for active, communicative Product Owners.

Self-reflection Question: How does your Product Owner foster collaboration with developers and testers?

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Karthiga Seturaj

Karthiga is a dedicated Agilist with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams, emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability, and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to Manager of Agile Coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful change.

You can link with Karthiga Seturaj on LinkedIn.

Karthiga Seturaj: Building Habits for Continuous Improvement With The Help Of Agile Retrospectives

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Karthiga’s success definition is similar to what we’ve heard before:  helping teams achieve independence and self-sufficiency. To illustrate that point, she describes an experience where a team’s decision to run retrospectives independently was both surprising and fulfilling, marking a key moment of maturity. This shift allowed her to focus on more strategic initiatives and support the team’s continued growth.

Self-reflection Question: Does your team take proactive steps to improve their work processes without prompting?

Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: DAKI (Drop, Add, Keep, Iterate)

Karthiga highlights the DAKI retrospective format as a simple yet effective way to foster team reflection. By encouraging teams to categorize feedback into what to drop, add, keep, and iterate, this approach helps Scrum Masters facilitate actionable discussions. She suggests using tools like a retro postbox on a shared whiteboard to make capturing daily ideas a habit.

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Karthiga Seturaj

Karthiga is a dedicated Agilist with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams, emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability, and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to Manager of Agile Coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful change.

You can link with Karthiga Seturaj on LinkedIn.

Karthiga Seturaj: Leading Agile Transformations with the Flow Framework

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Karthiga discusses an agile transformation involving the adoption of the Flow Framework and Spotify model. With leadership support and tools like Lean Change Canvas, the transition fostered psychological safety, adaptability, and feedback-driven improvement. Key lessons include measuring the current state, establishing clear success criteria, and embracing agility in agile adoption.

Self-reflection Question: How can you ensure psychological safety during major changes in your organization?

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

 

About Karthiga Seturaj

Karthiga is a dedicated Agilist with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams, emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability, and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to Manager of Agile Coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful change.

You can link with Karthiga Seturaj on LinkedIn.

Karthiga Seturaj: The Right And The Wrong Metrics For Agile Teams

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Karthiga shares a team story where metrics like Flow Efficiency were implemented to improve understanding of work processes. Despite leadership support and training, the team became overly focused on “making metrics look good,” reflecting Goodhart’s Law. This led to discussions on aligning the purpose of metrics with improving workflows, not chasing numbers.

Self-reflection Question: Are your team’s metrics driving the right behaviors and outcomes?

Featured Book of the Week: Project to Product by Mik Kersten

Karthiga recommends Project to Product: How to Survive and Thrive in the Age of Digital Disruption with the Flow Framework for its introduction to the Flow Framework and its impact on understanding value stream management. This book transformed her approach to metrics, highlighting bottlenecks and improving flow efficiency. She particularly appreciated its simplicity and practical application in bridging business and technical team gaps.

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Karthiga Seturaj

Karthiga is a dedicated Agilist with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams, emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability, and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to Manager of Agile Coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful change.

You can link with Karthiga Seturaj on LinkedIn.

Karthiga Seturaj: The Importance of Addressing Conflicts Early in Agile Teams

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

As a Scrum Master, Karthiga shares a failure story involving unresolved conflicts between a Product Owner and an engineering lead that escalated into organizational changes and team departures. Reflecting on this experience, Karthiga emphasizes the importance of confronting issues early and effectively. Key tips include involving the right people, leveraging feedback from retrospectives, and using data to address conflicts constructively.

Self-reflection Question: How comfortable are you with addressing conflict in your team, and what steps can you take to improve?

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Karthiga Seturaj

Karthiga is a dedicated Agilist with over 15 years of experience in the software industry. She specializes in coaching agile teams, emphasizing respect, inclusion, accountability, and outcomes. Her journey spans from Scrum Master to Manager of Agile Coaches, transforming teams and driving impactful change.

You can link with Karthiga Seturaj on LinkedIn.

Sara Caldwell: The Curious Strategist and The Overwhelmed Task Manager, Two Contrasting Product Owner Patterns The Great Product Owner: The Curious Strategist, A Model Product Owner

Sara describes an exemplary Product Owner who blended curiosity, strategic thinking, and empathy. By understanding team concerns and fostering connection, this PO became a trusted collaborator. Whether strategizing or engaging in team bonding, this PO consistently demonstrated entrepreneurial thinking and alignment with team goals.

The Bad Product Owner: The Overwhelmed Task Manager

A contrasting example involves a PO unable to perform beyond task management due to divided focus and limited availability. Sara reflects on systemic issues and offers tips for collaboration, like defining key moments for engagement and modeling desired behaviors to build alignment between PO and team.

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Sara Caldwell

Sara is an organizational anthropologist passionate about human-centered change. She helps organizations tackle tough problems, all while keeping things fun and engaging. Sara blends strategic thinking with empathy, turning challenges into opportunities. Agile values guide her—whether helping teams flow, wrangling her rescue pets, or navigating the complexities of everyday life.

You can link with Sara Caldwell on LinkedIn.

Sara Caldwell: Agile Retrospectives and Critical Team Insights With the Spotify Squad Health Check

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Success as a Scrum Master, according to Sara, is about fostering self-regulating teams that thrive even in the Scrum Master’s absence. By reducing her “air time” and encouraging self-reflection, she helps teams solve problems independently. Sara highlights strategies like NPS feedback and enabling constraints to continuously evaluate and improve her own impact.

Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The Spotify Squad Health Check

Sara recommends this retrospective for its focus on assessing team health across multiple dimensions. The Squad Health Check fosters meaningful conversations, encourages team-driven improvements, and provides valuable insights for leaders. Its versatility makes it a go-to for improving team dynamics and driving sustainable change. Listen to the episode to learn how Sara uses this retrospective format.

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Sara Caldwell

Sara is an organizational anthropologist passionate about human-centered change. She helps organizations tackle tough problems, all while keeping things fun and engaging. Sara blends strategic thinking with empathy, turning challenges into opportunities. Agile values guide her—whether helping teams flow, wrangling her rescue pets, or navigating the complexities of everyday life.

You can link with Sara Caldwell on LinkedIn.

Sara Caldwell: From Command-and-Control to Collaborative Visioning, A Change Practice

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Sara shares how her early experience of creating a change vision taught her the importance of co-creation. By involving teams through focus groups and story collection, she fosters ownership and accelerates transformation. Listen to learn actionable tips for facilitating vision-building and empowering teams to take part in change processes.

Self-reflection Question: How can you involve your team in co-creating a vision for your next project?

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Sara Caldwell

Sara is an organizational anthropologist passionate about human-centered change. She helps organizations tackle tough problems, all while keeping things fun and engaging. Sara blends strategic thinking with empathy, turning challenges into opportunities. Agile values guide her—whether helping teams flow, wrangling her rescue pets, or navigating the complexities of everyday life.

You can link with Sara Caldwell on LinkedIn.

Sara Caldwell: Human-Centric and Transformational Leadership for Agile Teams

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

Sara shares her experience with a healthcare project aimed at digitizing care workers’ documentation processes. Despite innovative technical solutions, the team overlooked user empathy, leading to adoption challenges. Engineers who shadowed care workers discovered crucial insights that transformed their approach. Sara reflects on the importance of direct user engagement and how to prevent anti-patterns, like distancing engineers from end-users, in product development.

Featured Book of the Week: Brave New Work by Aaron Dignan

This transformative book emphasizes the need for organizations to be person-centric and complexity-conscious. Sara shares how Brave New Work inspired her to rethink operating systems for teams. Along with Leadership is Language by David Marquet and Radical Candor by Kim Scott, she discusses actionable lessons to improve leadership and team dynamics. These books provide a blend of theory and practical strategies to create empowered, high-performing teams.

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥

Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.

Buy Now on Amazon

[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

About Sara Caldwell

Sara is an organizational anthropologist passionate about human-centered change. She helps organizations tackle tough problems, all while keeping things fun and engaging. Sara blends strategic thinking with empathy, turning challenges into opportunities. Agile values guide her—whether helping teams flow, wrangling her rescue pets, or navigating the complexities of everyday life.

You can link with Sara Caldwell on LinkedIn.