In this episode, Kathryn interviews Catherine Dawson, General Counsel at Affinipay, discusses her career transition from big law to in-house counsel, emphasizing her interest in technology. She also talks about the benefits of using AI in legal practice, such as task automation and increased efficiency. Dawson recounts her experience of working part-time while starting a family, emphasizing the possibility of work-life balance in law. She provides advice to parents on navigating their careers; suggesting reevaluation and adaptation based on changing situations.

Highlights

• Insights about law school, career path, and working in an in-house role
• Entering a legal career in the technology space and challenging issues with AI
• Transitioning from Biglaw to in-house and understanding roles within a company
• The potential of AI for lawyers and how it can help save time and do more meaningful work
• Advice on prioritizing different aspects of life at different stages and making choices as per personal needs
• How being full-time in-house differs from being full-time at a big law and how it was more feasible while her kids were in elementary school
• How to reevaluate life stages and job demands as children grow older

Episode Resources

• https://www.affinipay.com/company/about-us/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-d-dawson 

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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Erin Gordon, author of "Look What You Made Me Do", a memoir exposing a toxic culture in a prominent law firm. Erin shares her experience of continuous micro-harassments, personal defamation, and inadequate work allocation, leading to extreme stress and impeding her professional growth. Despite having a strong legal case against the firm, practical difficulties meant she had to endure the environment with minimal improvement.

Highlights

• Insights on the pressure to stay in big law firms despite negative experiences
• The turning point when she consulted employment lawyers who advised her to leave the firm
• The long-term impact on her career, including self-esteem issues, lack of professional growth, and financial loss
• Erin's realization that she wasn't a bad lawyer, but rather a victim of a system that prioritizes loyalty over individual experiences

Episode Resources https://eringordonauthor.com/  

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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Dina Segal, the Chief Legal Officer at Gusto, and discusses her personal and professional journey including her transition from a big law firm to an in-house counsel position and her experiences as a working mother. 

She speaks about the Lexis Plus platform's innovative Judicial Brief Analysis tool and highlights the importance of understanding the business, building trust, and creating impactful solutions. Dina, a board member of the SunLaw Group, which supports women in-house counsel, also talks about the challenges faced by women in the legal profession. 

Dina emphasizes work-life balance and advises against measuring balance on a day-to-day basis. She promotes mental health awareness in the legal industry and encourages self-forgiveness on tough days. 

Highlights

• Dina’s background and why she decided to attend law school, and her early interest in advocacy
• Her pathway to in-house law and the importance of understanding the business you're in when working in-house
• Career progression in-house and the challenges and milestones for those seeking an in-house career
• Dina’s experience of transitioning the SunLaw Group's activities digitally during the COVID-19 pandemic
• The importance of being present wherever you are, whether it's at work or with family and suggests viewing balance over longer time periods
• The lasting impact of small but meaningful moments with children
• Advice to aspiring lawyers and the importance of identifying their fundamental driver or passion
• Significance of keeping the larger picture in mind during challenging periods

   Episode Resources

• https://gusto.com/company-news/the-rise-of-women-entrepreneurs

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In this episode, directors Cara Bain and Allison Rosner from Major Lindsay in Africa discussed the trajectory of their legal careers and the importance of workplace partnerships. While detailing their unique career paths, they stressed the benefits of diverse backgrounds and perspectives in enhancing team performance. They encouraged listeners to be receptive to diverse opportunities, stay proactive, and be open-minded in their careers. 

Highlights

• Allison discusses her atypical path to the legal industry. She shares how her curiosity about the private equity industry led her to join it and ultimately work as a Chief of Staff to the General Counsel in a Legal Department.
• Allison talks about forming relationships with candidates early on in their careers and guiding them as their career progresses.
• Challenges in the legal industry are discussed, such as the tension between companies and staff over remote work and the internal pay inequities due to the vast increase in compensation over the last five years.
• Allison gives tips on how to get up the nerve to negotiate during a job transition, encouraging people to get out of their comfort zone and seek support from mentors or cheerleaders.
• Discussion on the role of mentorship and peer support in retaining talent within the legal profession.
• The importance of considering every opportunity and starting the job hunt before feeling ready is emphasized.

   Episode Resources

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-rosner-b837736
• https://www.mlaglobal.com/en/people/cara-bain?byconsultantorauthor=cara-bain  

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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In this episode, Kathryn interviewed Sejal Patel from Sage Ivy Consulting. Sejal traces her unique career from law to consulting, emphasizing that law schools should better guide students about alternative legal careers and business development. She suggests young lawyers maintain their professional relationships from law school, cultivate new ones through LinkedIn and conferences, and develop friendships with clients. Together with Kathryn, they stress the importance of early start in professional networking and continuous learning for a successful career.

Highlights

• Navigating the paths after law school and confronting the realities of alternative legal careers
• Encouraging business development as a part of lifestyle, exploring hobbies and fun activities with potential clients
• Why you should start early with business development, ideally during law school years
• How to develop networks and business for those who don't have those kinds of connections from diverse backgrounds
• The importance of turning clients into friends for gaining inside knowledge and sustaining long-term relationships
• The need to attend bar association conferences and events for networking opportunities
• The importance of early business development network building

   Episode Resources

• http://www.sageivyconsulting.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/sbpatel/  

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Kathryn interviewed Frieda Garcia, a managing partner at BAL. Frieda shares her journey to becoming an immigration lawyer, primarily influenced by her family's legal immigration issues. Although the field is challenging due to its complexity and politicized nature, it is also rewarding, particularly in cases where she's assisted scientists and nurses. 

Frieda commends her firm's intentional diversity efforts and credits this to her rise as a Latina woman. Toward the end of the episode, she reflects on the unpredictable nature of immigration law, emphasizing resilience and empathy as essential attributes. She offers advice to aspiring lawyers, encouraging resilience, forming strong relationships, treating others with kindness, and prioritizing self-care.

Highlights

• Frieda Garcia and her motive behind pursuing law
• Her first experience with immigration law
• The intricacies of looking at immigration law from the perspective of employers
• The start of her passion for immigration law
• BAL's recognition as the most diverse law firm
• The importance of adaptability and resilience in dealing with the unpredictability of her work in immigration law
• How young professionals in law should persevere towards their goals, make and learn from mistakes, and forge strong relationships
• Value of respectfulness and self-care in the demanding field of law and leadership
• How aspiring law professionals should continuously work towards their goals despite the obstacles

   Episode Resources

• Link to Frieda’s bio: https://www.bal.com/people/frieda-garcia/
• Frieda video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2L24flp-cY
• BAL Insights page: https://www.bal.com/insights/ 

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Kathryn interviewed Elise Holtzman, President of The Lawyer’s Edge, who shares her journey from pre-med to law and discusses challenges faced by lawyers. She highlights the pressure being overwhelming leading to visible stress, but advises breaking down goals into smaller achievable tasks. Elise also points out that self-doubts often block individuals from expressing their needs or setting boundaries, and stresses the need to ignore such doubts as they are not based on reality. She encourages lawyers to seek help when stuck and to realize that progress requires new skills and habits, even if changing these seems hard.

Highlights

• Why Elise decided to move from medical school to law school
• The idea of conducting "mini experiments” and trying a few new things like learning to delegate more or showing up with solutions rather than just problems.
• Law firms' responsibility to communicate their expectations upfront to their associates and to give them a clear roadmap for professional development
• Ways individuals can develop a macro perspective on their legal career while dealing with daily tasks, such as finding quiet time to reflect or discussing with a friend
• Spending time with like-minded individuals who can provide motivation and support in aspiring career advancements
• The challenges of being stuck in a rut in the legal field and suggests making small changes to gradually improve the situation
• The importance of pacing oneself and not trying to make dramatic changes all at once
• The mental roadblocks or "gremlins" that prevent people from making much-needed changes in their careers  

Episode Resources

• https://thelawyersedge.com/about-us/meet-elise-holtzman/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliseholtzman 

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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Kathryn interviewed Susan Myres, a Managing Partner of Myres & Associates PLLC, who discusses the prevalence of “decision fatigue” in the legal industry. She suggests lawyers take regular breaks and maintain a work-life balance to counter fatigue and stress. She emphasizes the components of self-care and health in a lawyer’s responsibility to their clients. Susan also highlights the lack of effective tools to manage this ongoing stress within the profession. Arguing for the importance of being adequately prepared for cases and meetings, she recounts an experience where her unpreparedness negatively impacted a client. She views these scenarios as learning opportunities, warning that, without proper management, decision fatigue can lead to unsustainable legal careers. Lastly, Susan advocates for the development of effective tools to aid in managing decision fatigue and ensuring continued quality in legal service.

Highlights

• What led Susan Myers to specialize in matrimonial and family law
• Why the practice of family law interesting for her
• Dealing with the intensity of family law cases
• The notion of decision fatigue
• The Harvard Business Review issue "How to Make Decisions Amid Chaos"
• Managing stress and emotions amidst decision fatigue
• The importance of delegation and taking breaks for overall well-being
• The signs of approaching burnout in law practice
• The concept of decision fatigue and the importance of checklists in managing tasks efficiently
• Importance of self-awareness in managing workloads and stress in the legal profession
• Why young lawyers who feel enormous pressure to do it all
• The need to mentor and support them

   Episode Resources

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01OU2Y5TmNw
• https://www.thehoustondivorcefirm.com/our-team/susan-myres/ 

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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Kathryn Introduces guests Douglas Letter and Shira Feldman from Brady United, an organization focused on reducing gun violence. They discuss their driving factors for practicing law, touch on their work, and explore specific gun laws, including the case of United States vs Rahimi, relevant to domestic violence prevention. Shira outlines the current state of gun laws post-Bruin decision while Doug shares optimism about the Supreme Court's potential future pro-safety rulings.

Highlights

• Doug and Shira’s work at Brady, which involves legal advocacy and representation for gun violence victims
• The optimistic outlook after the oral arguments in the "US vs Rahimi" case
• State regulations on assault weapons and high capacity magazines
• The role states play in regulating gun laws and the optimism that these measures will be upheld by the Supreme Court in the future
• The significance and value of their work at Brady
• Their initiatives outside of litigation, particularly working with Hollywood, to increase awareness and bring about a cultural shift on gun safety.
• Shira and Doug’s work at the broader organization of Brady and their important incremental changes.

   Episode Resources https://www.bradyunited.org/our-work/brady-legal/our-legal-team  

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Kathryn interviewed Dylan Penningroth to discuss the intersections of Black history, law, and the civil rights movement. Penningroth, author of "Before the Movement: the Hidden History of Black Civil Rights", stresses the importance of viewing the Black community as a diverse group with various perspectives, and using the law as both an instrument of oppression and of change. He speaks on his research challenges and the impacts of corporate law on Black history.

Highlights

• The hidden history of Black Civil Rights
• The significance of contextual understanding of civil rights that goes beyond racial discrimination
• The importance of taking a focused approach to understand the Civil Rights movement
• Marriage, divorce, and inheritance in the lives of Black people
• The reasons why stories involving Black people sometimes get "lost"
• Black people using law as a tool in their daily lives
• The tension between law as both a source of oppression and a tool for liberation
• Ponders whether the law a strategy is worth pursuing for Black people
• Shows mixed opinions about the law as a tool of oppression and also a tool of liberation   

Episode Resources

• https://www.law.berkeley.edu/our-faculty/faculty-profiles/dylan-penningroth/
• https://history.berkeley.edu/dylan-c-penningroth  

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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Kathryn interviewed Amanda Wolfman, who shares her career transition from social work to law and advocates for diversity, equity, and inclusion within the legal field. From her experiences at various law firms, she emphasizes the importance of problem-solving skills and having these values ingrained in all facets of a firm's operations for it to be impactful. She also shares some career highs and lows and the satisfaction derived from solving clients' problems. 

Highlights

• Her experience on job transition and finding the right fit.
• The future of diversity in the legal field and how to encourage positive change.
• The need for deep commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• Showing up and actively fighting for progress in diversity, equity and inclusion.
• Highlights of her career in law.
• More career highs, including trials won and differences made for clients.

   Episode Resources https://www.nge.com/Our-Lawyers/Amanda-Wolfman  

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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