Our podcast is centered around the Send Institute. We receive many questions about Send Institute, and I felt some clarity is in order. Many of our field personnel do not realize that Send Network is a resource for them. It is essentially a think tank designed to explore, expand and enhance church planting in North America.

 

Sending Well e-book by Dino Senesi 

https://www.amazon.com/Sending-Well-Dino-Senesi-ebook/dp/B077TP88Q7 

In this episode of Coaching Podcast, hosts, Dino Senesi and Jamie Limato, are joined with guest, Josh Turner. Josh is a church planter strategist for Conservatives of Virginia. Listen and learn more about the One Day Coaching Map.

Additional resources:

• One Day Coaching Map https://www.namb.net/Resources/Participants-Guide-4.0-Refillable-One-Day-Map.pdf
• Survive and Thrive by Jimmy Dodd https://www.amazon.com/Survive-Thrive-Relationships-Pastor-PastorServe/dp/1434709191

Transcription:

Introduction: Thank you for joining us on the Coaching Podcast. As part of the Send Network, we are passionate about equipping church planters to live out the call God has placed on their lives. Join us as we talk through healthy coaching practices and why every church planter needs one. Here's your host, Dino Senesi.

Dino: Hello everybody, this is Dino Senesi, and this is the Church Planter Podcast, coaching podcast. I'm the director of the Send Network. I have two guests with me today, and I can't wait for you to talk to them, and on my right is Josh Turner, and Josh is a church planter strategist for Conservatives of Virginia. Josh, good to have you, man.

Josh: It's good to be here, Dino. Thanks for having me.

Dino: Yeah, and on my left is my friend and comrade, Jamie Limato. Jamie is now full time with the North American Mission Board. He is the coaching coordinator. He works in the Northeast, but he works everywhere, and if you guys have been to MAPS or heard us talk about coaching anywhere, you've been exposed to Jamie and been blessed and encouraged by that, but this is a special podcast because we are celebrating 100 one day coaching MAPS beginning in 2013, and I want to defer to Jamie a little bit about that. Jamie, you've been around for a lot of those. What kind of changes have you seen in what we've been doing for church planter coaches since number one?

Jamie: Yeah. So, our training has definitely become more, it flows better, and it's more interactive. It holds more of an adult learning model, and to be honest with you, it's been great to come along for the journey to just, to grow not only as a coach but also as a trainer, and so it's been fun to be a part of it since the beginning.

Dino: Well, and my friend, you have contributed a lot to the development of the material from your practical experience as a champion in D.C. and just your passion for learning. Of course, you have the gallop strength learner, so you love to learn and you've passed a lot of that wealth on to us, so glad to have you on the team, and glad to have your contributions to the kingdom through church planter coaching. So the reason Josh and Jamie are together today is because they were in the first one day coaching MAP in 2013, August in D.C., and they knew each other, but they formed a special relationship through peer coaching, and so I want to start right on the 101 level because the word coaching means everything to everybody, all kinds of things, and peer coaching may not be clear what we're talking about for everybody. So, Josh, talk to us a little bit about what's a peer coaching relationship?

Josh: Yeah, so a peer coaching relationship is where, well, at first, Jamie and I showed up at the one day coaching MAP and we got paired up to peer coach each other, and so ironically, we needed each other at the time and didn't realize how much we needed each other, and so it's basically just almost like practicing on each other, asking intentional questions, and helping draw out really what's already there in each other, and I think we did that well together.

Dino: Yeah, and so, but that was a different skill for you, so Jamie, when you first started that kind of relationship, how was that different than other relationships that you had?

Jamie: Yeah, well, I think it was different in that, just like Josh was saying, it was intentional in that we had coaching guides that we were using, and so the goal of it was to practice asking good questions, and as you would go along in the relationship, you'd begin to ask great questions because we'd learn that the best and great questions in coaching are off of the words that the person who is being coached that they're using, and so Josh did that great with me, and that was what was incredibly different from any other relationship that I have had up to that point.

Dino: And so, Josh, in this process what changed in you because you were one guy coming into peer coaching, probably was accustomed to dealing with relationships one way, and now suddenly it's like a new way, it's like trying to ride a bike without training wheels. It's probably a little awkward I would think.

Josh: Well, yeah. And so what Jamie did, too, was he listened well, and then he identified areas that he could probe and push back on, and one of the things he did well was ask strategic questions about what I was going through, and then the action steps, like what are you going to do about it. What are some things you can do next week? So, anyway.

Dino: So when you say strategic questions, and I'll give you a second to let your brain roll just a little bit, but kind of give me at least from a topic, what are some of the things that you did talk about, or would typically talk about in a coaching conversation?

Josh: Yeah, so in this particular coaching conversation, I think and believe we were talking about staff members, just staffing, different strategies and different challenges with staffing and so Jamie would say something like, what are three things you could do this week or next week or when are you going to do them? When's the best time to do them, and so we would set a date, and then I knew that the next time we met that that needed to happen, and he was going to ask me about it, and so it was very strategic, very intentional.

Dino: So high level of accountability in coaching whether you're coaching a peer or not, Jamie, we get, some of us think, some people think that we're a little bit soft. We coach guys, but talk about accountability, how does accountability work in a coaching relationship?

Jamie: Yeah, so the whole goal in the coaching conversation is to arrive at an action item, and one of the ways that we do that is by asking when questions. When will you do that? And then, they might say, I'm going to do that next week. Well, when next week? And they might say, Monday or Tuesday. Well, which of those would be better, Monday or Tuesday? And so, now we start to get down to a very identified goal and an identified set of action items that help us achieve that goal, and Josh did that incredibly well all while still targeting the heart because what we were both dealing with at the time were both heart issues. Yes, they had staffing issues related to it, but really, they came down to the heart for both of us.

Dino: Yeah, as you're thinking about that, I thought of a word I haven't thought of before. I think about coaching, and that's annoying. Annoying because a good coach is persistent. You know what the relationship's like. You've agreed to be in this kind of relationship, but that doesn't eliminate it from being a little bit annoying at times, but we live our lives in the aspirational level, and Eddie Hancock was training recently, and I heard him say, too many of our goals are never, ever followed up on, and so what kind of things do you think you accomplished in the relationship, the peer coaching relationship, Josh, besides just strategic stuff? What kind of personal things maybe happened for you?

Josh: So, what happened with that peer coaching relationship is it became intentional as well with the other parts of my life, like being a senior pastor. I started coaching my staff. I started coming home and asking questions to help my kids get through something that they were going through, not giving them the answers, but they realized, wow, I've got the answer through asking questions it was drawn out, and then being strategic and discerning about what, as Jamie mentioned, a real issue is because a lot of the times what we say is the problem is not really the problem. So coaching helps bring that out and identify that. It really solves problems.

Dino: Yeah, we like to talk a lot about symptoms because symptoms are also those annoyances in life, and some of them never get resolved because we just want the pain or the aggravation to go away without going into deep waters, deep waters of the heart. Jamie, for you, you work with systems all over North America. How important is peer coaching and how does this affect the health of coaching in a city?

Jamie: Well, I would say that peer coaching is incredibly important when it comes to establishing your coaching system because you cannot become a great coach until you become a mediocre coach, and until you become a pretty good coach, and the only way you get there is through practice, and so if you want, if we want to deliver great coaching to every church planter, we need individuals who will pair up, and they'll go through the training, number one, and then they'll pair up and engage in a peer coaching relationship where they experience the benefit of coaching, but then they also are ready to begin that coaching journey of growing as a coach, and they've practiced that in safety. One of the other things that happens in our Send Network peer coaching system is we also do a peer coaching look in, which Dino, you did with Josh and I, and the result of that is we're able to get feedback on the coaching that we have done.

Jamie: And so we're able to hear from someone on the outside, the things that we've done well, the things that we could improve upon, and how those things relate to the competencies that we learned at the training.

Dino: Yes, and you might be happening on this podcast today, and you're a church planter. You don't have a coach. You may be in the Send system, and one day you're going to be called on by a coach. You don't know what it's all about, and you might be a little suspicious. Well, I hope you would know today that we work hard on developing coaches to be great to help you fulfill your unique kingdom assignment, so coaching is about you, on our seat on the bus and men like Jamie and Josh invest hours and hours coaching planters and developing coaches, so that you could do what God's asked you to do, and ultimately that you could fulfill the mission of God where he has assigned you, so listening in on a conversation like this, you're seeing just a little bit up under the hood about how serious we are about the great coaching part.

We say, oftentimes in our training, or I'll say, we could have said, Josh, we're going to deliver good coaching or we could have said, we're going to deliver kind of good or okay coaching or mediocre coaching, and we just couldn't find a word. We wanted to put a qualifier there, and we say, let's make it great. Let's put that bar in front of us because as someone said recently in our training, it's a great commission. Surely it deserves great coaching. And so, that's really the heart behind all of this. Josh, if someone doesn't have a coach, give them some advice on how to set up a peer coaching relationship. What would you do if you were in that situation?

Josh: Yeah, so if you don't have a coach, the first thing I would do is just desire to have one. I mean, and realize how important it is to have a coach, and then just find somebody to coach, somebody else, another peer, another pastor or someone else that is interested in helping coaching and get involved and just start doing it. I think that's an important thing. Just do it.

Dino: Yeah, getting those coaching reps in is critical, having those conversations will not only help you in the moment, but it'll help you develop your leaders and develop disciples just a little bit. Jamie, I want you to make reference back, too, because as a planter thinks about a coach, a lot of times a planter says I've already got a coach or I've got multiple coaches. Talk a little bit about the voices and how that fits together and how that might inform a planter. What is the exact function of having a coach in their life?

Jamie: Yeah, one of the things that we talk about is helping us to understand what coaching is different from. It's different from counseling. It's different from advising. It's different from teaching, and it's different from mentoring. All of those particular voices are pouring in. They're pouring into the life of the leader, and we have plenty of those as church planters, and if we thought about it long enough, we could have a long laundry list of pouring in voices, whether that's podcasts or community leaders or people in your core group or people in your small group, and the reality is, is all of those voices can become, to get to a place where it's really noisy, and you don't really know what your next step is, or if you know what your next step is, you being to compare your next step with someone else's next steps, and so what a coach is able to do is come alongside the leader and begin to draw out what God has already placed in there.

And to begin to help hold them accountable to the action items that they come up with. That was what was so life giving to me in my relationship, in my peer coaching relationship with Josh, and as I've coached other planters, it's been life giving to me as well in that he was able to draw out of me what God had already placed in there, and at the time, I had lots of voices speaking in, and the last thing I needed was one more voice telling me what to do. What I needed was a voice to draw out what God had already told me to do.

Dino: Yeah, I always think about the book by Jimmy Dodd, Survive or Thrive, six relationships every pastor needs. So, there are voices that are critical to you, and it's not just the coaching voice, but the coaching voice complements all the other voices, Josh, because what you're being told by multiple people eventually you have to sort it out and make decisions, so that coaching voice is critical for that. Josh, what advice would you have for a church planter based on what you've seen? What do you think, what kind of voices do they need and how would you advise them?

Josh: Well, I think they need several voices. I mean, there's mentoring, there's just different avenues, there's podcasts, there's all kind of places that give advice, but I mean, as Jaime mentioned, everyone, every leader needs a good coach, and I think you say that all the time. Every leader needs a good coach to draw out, as Jaime mentioned, what God's already doing, and so I'm, I mean, I think that's key in church planting.

Dino: Very good. We need a shepherd of our soul. Well, we have in the show notes, we will have six coaching guides for peers, so if you want to coach, find a friend, and check the show notes and get the six coaching guides, and this'll get you started. They're nothing dramatic. They're just simple questions that you would ask through a coaching conversation. Have an hour meeting. Let your coach, coach you for 30 minutes. You coach him for 30 minutes, and see how God uses that to help you get clarity, to reflect, get some space, and get some accountability in your life. Josh and Jaime, it's a thrill to have both of you. It's been fun, and thank God for you. Number one, you were at number one, and so we're at number 101, and it's amazing to think about all that's happened over those years of working together. So, until next time, keep coaching.

Closing Remarks: You have been listening to the Coaching Podcast, a resource of the North American Mission Board. Are you a church planter in need of a coach? Visit namb.net/coaching to learn more.

 

What does church planter wives’ coach look like? How is it different from the coaching their husbands’ receive? Planter wives’ coaches ask questions in a gospel framework that result in action. Lean the value of coaching for planter wives and the challenges developing their coaches. Dino Senesi and Planter Spouse Care Director, Kathy Litton, interview Cathie Heard about planter wives’ coaching.    

Show notes:   

Geneva Push Coaching Resource page:   

https://genevapush.com/coach/   

Kathy Litton’s planter spouse resource page:   

https://www.namb.net/send-network-blog/authors/kathy-litton-1   

Send Network’s Five Heart Hungers Coaching Tool in English, French, Spanish and Mandarin Chinese:   

https://www.namb.net/resources/five-heart-hungers-worksheet

Hear the story of Geneva Push, a church planting network in Australia. See how coaching wives became a part of the DNA of the network. Kathy Litton and Cathie Heard discuss the needs of a church planter wife and how coaching can help. Dino Senesi and Spouse Care Director, Kathy Litton, of the Send Network interview Cathie Heard about planter wives’ coaching.    

Cathie Heard’s church planter wives’ encouragement videos: https://genevapush.com/resources/tag/cathie-heard/   

Kathy Litton interview about planter wives’ care: https://www.namb.net/send-network-blog/spouse-care-interview-with-kathy-litton   

For more church planter coaching resources go to the Send Network Church Planter Coaching page: https://www.namb.net/coaching

See under the hood of the church planter coaching system in St. Louis. Hear about the wins and the challenges of providing a great coach for every church planter. Learn the importance of a strong coaching champion to help encourage and develop coaches in a city. And learn the secret of great coaching in your city.

• Noah Oldham's church: http://augustgate.com/  

• Principles and Practices of Church Planter Coaching free ebook: https://www.namb.net/send-network-blog/sending-well-principles-and-practices-of-church-planter-coaching

Introduction: Thank you for joining us on the Coaching Podcast. As part of the Send Network, we are passionate about equipping church planters to live out the call God has placed on their lives. Join us as we talk through healthy coaching practices and why every church planter needs one. Here's your host, Dino Senesi.

Dino Senesi: Welcome to the Send Network Coaching Podcast. My name is Dino Senesi, and I'm the director of coaching for the Send Network, and today, I have a guest from St. Louis. His name is Noah Oldham. Now, Noah is a utility player. Now you know I'm going to segue into baseball, right? He's a utility player in the kingdom because he's a Send City Missionary, and that's part of his role, and the other part of his role is that he is a church planter and pastor of a multi-campus church in St. Louis, August Gate Church. Welcome, Noah, to the podcast.

Noah Oldham: Thanks Dino. Appreciate you having me.

Dino Senesi: Yeah man, and so let's talk Cardinals. What are you thinking? What's it going to look like this year because at least now, we're in March, so we're thinking baseball, right?

Noah Oldham: Ah man, yeah. I think the Cardinals always kind of look middle of the pack strong, even when we've been the best in the division or ended up best in the division, but folks are pretty depressed right now. We just had a pitcher that we offered money to, and he took $5 million less to go to another city-

Dino Senesi: Ouch.

Noah Oldham: So that he could win, so I think that people are a little bit down in the dumps right now.

Dino Senesi: Well let me tell you, as a baseball fan, I've never been anti-Cardinal, but I've been a Reds fan and a Braves fan, and so great deal of respect for a great organization, and yes, many years, you have looked like middle of the pack, and you've come out with a World Series on those years, so be encouraged. You can do it without what's-his-name, so very good. What's one place I need to eat in St. Louis the next time I come?

Noah Oldham: I'm not sure if you've eaten there already. I may have pushed you this direction, but Bailey's Range. It's a restaurant at 10th and Olive downtown. It's a St. Louis original restaurant. The owner, Bailey, everything he touches turns to gold. It's a craft burger, craft milkshake place, all locally sourced, in-house baked goods. It's an amazing place.

Dino Senesi: Wow. You’re making me hungry. Yeah, so very good. We went to a good place last time we were there with your coaches, your existing coaches. We got some good food. Do you remember where that was? 

Noah Oldham: Man, I don't. Oh yeah, we went to Tuckers. It was steak house.

Dino Senesi: Oh dude. That was some good grub right there. So, it was very good. What is your wife's name?

Noah Oldham: My wife's name is Heather.

Dino Senesi: Yeah, Heather. And I met Heather at either a Send Conference or ... I think it was a Send Conference at Long Beach. So I met her, but how's everything with Heather?

Noah Oldham: It's great. She's busy these days. She's the pastor's ... The planter wife care advocate here in St. Louis, and she homeschools our four children, and she's a lead pastor's wife, and so she does a tremendous amount. She's busy, but she's thriving. She's doing well.

Dino Senesi: Wow. And she is busier than you, and you're a utility player.

Noah Oldham: That's right. That's right. She keeps it all together here.

Dino Senesi: Very good. What's something your family loves to do in St. Louis together?

Noah Oldham: We love to hit up some of the free spots in St. Louis. St. Louis is known to be one of the most budget-friendly, family cities. We got a world renown zoo that's absolutely free, and so we like to hit that up. We like to go to Cardinal's baseball games. We like to spend together. Since we homeschool, we enjoy our time together, and so we try to do a weekly family worship with the kids, break out musical instruments. Some of them dance. We put music on YouTube on the TV and just let loose for Jesus. It's a lot of fun.

Dino Senesi: That sounds so cool. Appreciate your family. Appreciate Heather, and I know that's something that's vitally important to what's going on in your world, so I appreciate you as well, my friend.

I want to talk about coaching in St. Louis. Obviously, this is a coaching podcast. I'm just a curious guy, and I love big cities and what God's doing in those cities, but we'll just talk about church planter coaching. You gave us a longer story in a previous podcast, but coaching ... There's a personal meaning to coaching to you. Could you give us a thumbnail of that story? 

Noah Oldham: Yeah. The story goes that we had a miscarriage, early in the life of our church after years of infertility, and then getting pregnant on our own, we lost a baby in the middle of the pregnancy, we were just alone, and we were crushed. It was in that season of life, when we felt like we had no one to turn to that my coach pursued me deeper in conversation and deeper in relationship in the midst of our coaching relationship, and through that, brought his wife into the situation to help care for my wife, and they became some of the most dear people to us. Again, I always say, if it wasn't for the Hubbards, we might not be in ministry today. 

Dino Senesi: Yeah, yeah. It's really a great story. I would surely recommend to our listeners, if you did not hear the previous podcast, you could find it on the Send Network Coaching page, and you'd love to hear the details as how God used Mike Hubbard as a shepherd coach to walk alongside and shepherd the soul of Noah and Heather during excruciating circumstances, and it gives you a little bit of different vision of the value of coaching.

For some planters, Noah, you know they perceive this as, "Well, this is what NAMB is making me do." Or, "This is what my network's making me do. I got to have a coach. Oh no. I hate it." And when, in reality, a great coach is a gift from God.

Noah Oldham: Absolutely. A hundred percent necessary for the life and the health of a planter.

Dino Senesi: Yeah, very much so. And so, tell me ... Give me an update. How are things going for church planter coaching in St. Louis?

Noah Oldham: It's going really well. St. Louis has always been, since I've been here, at least, a strong city for coaching. When I was going through the planting process nearly a decade ago, immediately the different networks that exist here were all pushing coaching as something that was necessary and helpful and beneficial coaching, but what's been so cool about the last season for St. Louis ... Dino, you brought it to St. Louis, this unified vision for what our coaching can be, and so while we have a couple different state conventions that we work with and local associations, we've been able, through our NAMB Coaching, our Send Network Coaching, to bring one central lane for coaching instead of three or four or five different avenues, and that's been so helpful. We can track coaching better. We know who and who isn't in coaching, and it helps us to find coaches in an easier way as well.

Dino Senesi: Yes. Very much. When you think about something that'll last and something that'll grow, there has to be some unity in what does it mean to have a coach, and how often does someone meet with their coach, and what do they talk about. I've been having these conversations, specifically in the NAMB context, for five years, many years before that as well, and it's ... Coaching has been very random across North America. Some guys, like yourself, you had a great, great coaching story, but there was probably three or four guys in St. Louis that didn't have that same opportunity. The sheer numbers get ahead of us, but by having a system that creates a culture, then the number of coaches that know what they're doing and are passionate about what they do, continues to grow as your church planters grow, and then every planter has what they need, which is a great coach. So, what's your biggest challenge right now with church planter coaching?

Noah Oldham: We need more coaches. We have had a lot of guys doing a lot of things for years, and we're trying to grow our pool of coaches. Guys that are interested in it, even guys who aren't connected to church planting. We have a lot of guys who are getting coaching who we think are going to be tremendous coaches after this initial season of planting of receiving coaching, but we need to grow our pool, and so we're beginning to look even outside our region and even outside our tribe a little bit to get guys that are excited about the process of drawing out these church planters and helping them to flourish as they do it.

Dino Senesi: Yes, and definition of coaching, I'm thinking of this too. As you find the coaches, as you train them, as you assign them ... Well, there's two things.  I want to address the one at the end, but one of the things that our coach developers, such as your top-level coach developer, Kevin Wright, on your staff, they often say, "My coaches just want to hang out with their guys. There's not that level of intentionality." What are you doing, and what could we do to help move our coaches to being more intentional?

Noah Oldham: Well I think one of the number one things is finding that coaching champion. Kevin Wright, our coaching champion, I can't say enough good things about. Not only is he, like you said, he's on my staff, we planted August Gate Metro East together. He leads that gathering for our church, but he's a natural coach. He is so good at it.

So when this role became available, and it was placed in front of him, it was just a perfect fit, and so he is reproducing that. He's encouraging that culture. He's reminding people of what coaching is and what coaching isn't, because I think in most of our lives, especially those who played sports, we hear the word coach. We often think more like a mentor. We think like a sports coach as somebody who was really good before, and now that since they've got bad knees, all they do is tell people how to do it, but that's not what we're looking for, and Kevin understands that, and he is creating a culture here that is just exactly what we have needed in this season.

Dino Senesi: Well, he is doing an incredible job, and I could attest of that from my seat on the bus, and you're a great team because you have the bigger picture. You have the heart. You have the personal experience that says you really need a coach, and Kevin's doing a great job implementing it, and he really does embody what a great coach is like and how a great coach thinks, so I've seen, even in my own journey, I learned the most about coaching through having a great coach and then through coaching reps. Just getting out there and doing it.

Kim Robinson spoke to our team. He used something in a broader context, but it's like, "Get out of the huddle and run some plays." A lot of times, we have coaching huddles, right? Let's train. Let's advance our skills. Let's go to advanced training. Let's go a hundred hours of training. It's like the training can help prepare you to coach, but only coaching can make you a great coach. Reps, reps, reps. And so, you got somebody like Kevin around and others. I know some of your other coaches, and  appreciate their passion. Of course, Mike Hubbard, the veteran in your coaching system. A great coach, and so I think that's great for your culture. 

Now, another thing that I get from coaches is my church planter doesn't want to be coached, and so normally who's listening to this podcast is coaches, but I think what words would you give that planter, maybe that's words this coach is going to pick up and give to a planter to help them really want to be coached or be coachable? What are some words of encouragement you'd give there?

Noah Oldham: Yeah, we just try to give testimonials. We walk a planter through the process. We really don't make coaching optional. We don't force it on them either, but we tell them, "Here is what NAMB is giving to you. This is what we're going to provide for you." And we just tell the story in a compelling way how this is how coaching can help you and benefit you.

We frame it, and we shape it as the gift that it is instead of a jumping through hoops, and we've had a couple guys who have gone through that who feel like they don't necessarily need it, and when that happens, I generally have a one-on-one conversation with them, and I ask them this question: "Have I ever asked you to do something that's a waste of your time?"

Dino Senesi: Wow.

Noah Oldham: And thanks be to God, they usually say, "No. Absolutely not. Everything you've asked me to do or told me I need to do has been really beneficial." Coaching is even more important than that. And so this is going to be good, and we're going to get you the right coach too.

So I think that's necessary. If you have a system where you're matching guys up in a relationship that's going to be beneficial, a guy taste it just a little bit, he's going to be sold on it, and so I just tell a guy, "Trust me, and let's move forward in this together."

Dino Senesi: Yeah, that's good. Match-ups are important. Getting the right match-ups. Creating the right culture, which you guys have done, and it really does take time, and so building a coaching culture in most cities, although St. Louis had the benefit of having a longer history of coaching, it takes a while. It takes a few people going through a coaching cycle, those informal conversations that a person coached has, that's worth a hundred points on a zero scale to say ... It just takes one of those from somebody like you with leadership cred that says, "Trust me. This is going to help you."

Noah Oldham: One of the other cool things too, Dino, is that in our process, after we do the one-day coaching map, we do peer-to-peer coaching for a few months, and I have grown so much in peer-to- peer coaching, and so I'm able to tell planters that as well. Like, "I've gone through coaching, and here's the ways that it's benefiting me. You want to do this."

Dino Senesi: Yes. And at least in our process practicing, Keith Webb says that when you have follow up practice to do after training, the results go up 300%. I would scare to think about what our results would be without peer coaching, and that's where we take two participants, two coaches that are going to be deployed within 60 to 90 days, we let them practice for a couple of months together. We even look in on them and give them some feedback because we don't want it to be okay coaching. Our target is for it to be great coaching, and so those relationships help prepare them for their planter. We want the planter to get the best possible coach they could get. So, that's another word too. If we've got crummy coaching in our city, we're kidding ourselves when we're trying to talk a planter into having one.

Noah Oldham: Right. Right.

Dino Senesi: So, hey Noah, I appreciate it. This is a lot of value, I think, for our listeners today, and if you'll check our show notes, you'll be able to see a link to August Gate Church, a link to our Send Network Coaching page, and even a way to get access to more podcasts than just this one. The podcast is focused on helping coaches become great coaches, so we appreciate you listening. We appreciate your feedback, and Noah, thank you for the update on the St. Louis Cardinals, but even more important, for church planter coaching in St. Louis. 

Noah Oldham: Thanks for having me, Dino.

Dino Senesi: That's awesome. Until the next time, keep coaching.

Speaker 1: You have been listening to The Coaching Podcast, a resource of the North American Mission Board. Are you a church planter in need of a coach? Visit NAMB.net/Coaching to learn more.

Noah Oldham, church planter and Send City Missionary for St. Louis, and Dino Senesi, director of coaching for the Send Network, talk about the importance of coaches. Noah shares his story and how his coach played a significant role in saving his marriage and ministry.

• August Gate Church
• Sending Well: Principles and  Practices of Church Planter Coaching
• NAMB.net/Coaching

 

Introduction: Thank you for joining us on The Coaching Podcast. As part of the Send Network, we are

passionate about equipping church planters to live out the call God has placed on their lives. Join us as

we talk through healthy coaching practices and why every church planner needs one. Here's your host

Dino Senesi.

 

Dino Senesi: Welcome to the Send Network Coaching Podcast. I am the coaching director for the Send

Network. My name is Dino Senesi, and looking forward today to talking to my friend Noah Oldham.

Noah is the Sin City missionary in St. Louis. Hello Noah, how are you?

 

Noah Oldham: Hello Dino, I'm doing well man. Thanks for having me on.

 

Dino Senesi: You were telling me about what it's like in St. Louis today and it kind of made me want to

go up your direction, so what's the buzz, what's going on in St. Louis, and what does it feel

like to be in St. Louis today?

 

Noah Oldham: Oh man, St. Louis is on the verge of baseball season about to start, and today, you can

tell by looking outside, it's sunny, it's mid 50s, actually about to be 60s now and it's an amazing day

getting ready for Cardinal baseball. The city comes alive this time of the year. Everybody comes out

the winter depression, gets outside, it's a great time for mission, it's a great time to be in community.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, you know and my friends in the south and of course I live in South Carolina, the

perception is when I go to places like St. Louis and Detroit that I'm going to the North Pole, that you're

under ice nine months out of the year. They don't realize you have some very beautiful weather and

very distinct seasons in St. Louis.

 

Noah Oldham: That's right we do. We have really, really bad summers and we can often have really,

really bad winters. Spring and fall is hit or miss. It sometimes feel like a second winter and a second

summer, but we're thankful for the weather that we get here.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, so what do you love the most about your city, just living in St. Louis, what do you love

the most about it?

 

Noah Oldham: I love the fact that St. Louis is a Midwestern city. When I say that I mean it's equal parts

city and Midwestern, it's not like a metropolitan hub like Atlanta or New York or Chicago or LA that's

very, very metropolitan. You can be in the Arch, go to the top of the Arch, and look every direction and

in every direction you can see, from the Arch, cornfields. Because we're right there tucked in the middle

of the Midwest. It is a joining point St. Louis is for a diverse cultures, a very urban culture and a very

rural culture right up next to each other. It brings, not only it's challenges, but it brings it's blessings as

well.

 

Dino Senesi: Kind of give me the spiritual climate. What is I guess the average person in St. Louis, what

do they think about God, how do they process spiritual things?

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, St. Louis is full of post-Christian culture. St. Louis, even the name, gives it away that

it's a post-Catholic city, but it's also the home for the Missouri Synod Lutheran denomination and there

are a lot of other church movements that have been a part of the St. Louis city. When I meet somebody

who's from St. Louis, specifically a white person that's indigenous to St. Louis, I find out they went to

school here growing up. My second question is Catholic or Lutheran? They always laugh and they're like,

"How did you know?" I say, "Just because, that's the climate here." People here have a little bit of an

inoculation to the Gospel. Everybody has been kind of culturally Christian or has walked away on

purpose from being culturally Christian. You'll be hard pressed to find somebody not that's lost, a lot of

people don't know the Lord and don't care to know the Lord, but a lot of people know religion.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, well you know we have a similar issue in South Carolina but it's Baptist or Methodist.

It's kind of a different side of it but it's very much the same thing. People in the South kind of feel like,

"Well hey, I was born in the right place and I go to the right church so I must be going to heaven."

 

Noah Oldham: That's right.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, so that's a big hurdle to get over. Very good. Now you're a church planter as well. I

didn't say that on purpose at the beginning. You planted August Gate Church and we want to talk about

your coaching story today, there's a lot of coaches that listen to us and I want them to be encouraged by

how God has used coaching in your life as a planter, but first tell your planting story. How did August

Gate come into being?

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, so I went to college just outside St. Louis from 2001 to 2005. Came here to play

football. I was a brand new Christian, saved in high school, and in college I saw people my age leaving

the church in a mass exodus. As we begin to ask questions my Christian friends and I, people on the

football team, people in our classes, why were they walking away from the church? The main reason

they said was they felt like the church was irrelevant for their stage of life. I was a brand new believer

and the gospel is relevant to everything that I was going through, so I wanted them to know about

Jesus. My roommates and I, we started to tell funny stories about what it'd look like one day to start a

church for people like us, our age, and God birthed that idea when we were just 20 years old.

 

Then after college I went to be a youth pastor back in my home town. That burden never left me, and so

a couple years into being a youth pastor in Southeastern Illinois, God birthed a call in my heart to move

to a city to plant a church to reach the unchurched demographics of 20s and 30s. My college roommate,

my best friend, was the first person I called to invite, and God had been birthing that in his heart as well.

After a couple years of preparation, we moved to St. Louis, both of our families plus a third guy as well.

We all moved down and parachuted and planted August Gate in August of 2009 with about 15 people in

our living room. By God's grace today, actually in a couple weeks we're launching our third gathering of

our church, and we've been a part of planting over six churches in St. Louis since that time.

 

Dino Senesi: Well God's doing a lot of neat things in St. Louis from my seat on the bus, and of course

what God's doing through you and August Gate and through the entire Send Network there is incredible.

A real unusual sense of community I think you guys have accomplished and enjoyed hearing you speak

to couple of hundred church planters this past fall about community. What do you think’s important for

planters to help them in the early phases?

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, I mean early on they're going to need that brotherhood. That's what I love so much

about where Send Network is at and where we're even going is we need people around us, we need

coaches like we're talking about today. We need a brotherhood with other planters, we need a support

system, especially those guys who come into a city, they know no one, they need to have this already

put together circle of trust and circle of care and that's what Send Network is doing. Because without it,

man, you know, you've seen it, I've seen it, guys shrivel up and almost die and the work doesn't flourish

and God doesn't get the glory He deserves out of that situation.

Dino Senesi: Very much so. Now specifically your coaching story, there was some acute challenges that

you had. It sounded to me like you were under attack from the enemy in the early phases, and God used

a coach very much to help you walk through and used him in some unusual ways, mutual clients of mine

and becoming a friend, a very close friend of yours Mike Hubbard, but tell a little bit about your

coaching story within your planting story.

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, so part of our planting story was that the years that we went to prepare to come to

plant in St. Louis, 2007 specifically, was what we used to call the year from hell. It was horrific. It started

when I resigned my position as a youth pastor, the night I resigned I was life-flighted to a hospital with a

heart condition, I was on bed rest for over a month on medications that did all kinds of stuff to my body,

I gained a tremendous amount of weight, I had nowhere to go and ended up going to a church that I

didn't know very well under some promises that didn't come through. We ended up losing our house

after I lost that position. We had to move in with my in-laws. I went bald that year. I gained a

tremendous amount of weight. My mom died, and we found out we couldn't have children. All in the

course of about seven months.

 

I was crushed, man, I was crushed. When we moved to St. Louis the next year to do my church planning

residency, God was putting the pieces back together in our life. I was learning humility, I was learning to

trust the Lord, and we went through very, very costly procedures to have a child. We were told by

doctors it's the only way you'll ever get pregnant and we spent all of our life savings to have a baby. We

had a baby, and a few months after having that baby and launching our church we found ourselves

pregnant on our own out of nowhere, it was the biggest celebration you would have ever experienced.

We just didn't take it for granted at any level because we knew this was a miracle from God.

 

We celebrated, our church celebrated with us on and on, but then we went to our 14-week

appointment and ready to see how our child was growing, things were happening. Things were different

that day. The tech didn't turn the screen, didn't have the smile on her face like the time before. Long

story short our baby died in the womb and it was, do you know one of the hardest things still to this

point we've ever walked through in life. It made it even more difficult I think because of our history,

what we had gone through.

 

We were alone. We were planting this church and it was this weird thing of how do we tell people? How

do we let people care for us? What will people even do? Most people in our core team weren't even

that close to us. We're brand new relationships, we're trying to shepherd people, and on top of that my

wife and I were processing things differently. We had given up everything in life to come plant this

church and while this was very, very difficult I was finding ways to deal with the pain outwardly and my

wife was not. For instance, the first Sunday after it happened I went and, as a part of the sermon, shared

our brokenness. People said, "We're sorry and we're with you and we love you," but my wife was so

broken she wasn't able to come to service that night.

 

No one did that for her and it felt that after that night most people kind of moved on and she still

needed to heal. We entered into a dark, dark season of our life and our marriage and our church

planting. It all shifted, when one day in my monthly coaching with Mike Hubbard, he began

to dig deeper into questions. He could tell there was more going on in life, things seemed kind of

surfaced, and he kept digging. "Well what's going on in your marriage? What's going on in your home?

How are things with your heart?" When he did, I opened up and I shared with him what was going on.

Mike didn't just end our session after 30 minutes or an hour and give me some smart goals to walk away

with for our next session. Mike told me in that moment my wife and I, we want to meet with you, we

want to come alongside you in this. Mike and his wife, Heidi, invited us down to their church, they took

us out, they spent some time with us and they invested in our life. I tell people, when I tell stories of

Mike Hubbard, that I believe in many ways if it wasn't for Mike and Heidi Hubbard, Heather and I might

not be in ministry today because of the way God used that coach.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, and I was going to interject at that point Noah. I think that's an encouraging word that

our coaches could hear because sometimes, like in any ministry, you could be digging away, digging

away in a coaching relationship and suddenly there's a divine moment where you know now I know why

I'm Noah Oldham's coach. Mike had the maturity to seize that. I wrote down the one question: How are

things with your heart? We focus a lot in Send Network about you're coaching the planter not the plant,

you're coaching the person not the goal, there is a shepherding aspect of this to keep you grounded

during those difficult times. Tell me more about Mike and Heidi, they invited you in, they felt impressed

to pour more into you, what happened then?

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, they just walked with us. They were an available ear. They didn't force anything too

Much, like we need to meet all the time and do this and do this. They kept the door open, they have

individual conversations with us, they had joint conversations with us. Honestly, the few times that we

actually walked that with them, was what we needed, was what we needed, my wife and I, to see each

other and hear each other and understand that there was a bigger thing going on around us. It propelled

us, it propelled us into what is now an opportunity for Heather and I to shepherd so many other people

as I lead church planting for a name in St. Louis and my wife leads the coaching for Church Planting

Wives, the care for Church Planting Wives rather.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, and I understand the urgent need that a planter feels to get some really good and

timely advice. When there's lots of community around like you have in St. Louis that's readily available

and usually it's readily available, but you're describing a different kind of relationship, someone who will

shepherd the soul. Give me some of your thoughts about that.

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, I think that's one of the most important things, that's one of the things I love about

Mike and I love about many of our other coaches in St. Louis is there is this urgency to know the most

important thing, at the end of a career of ministry, it isn't the number of people that we had attend our

services, the number of small groups we started. At the end of career in ministry, do we, do our family,

do our children, do they love Jesus, and do they still believe in His mission in the local church? They

believe that's primary, and so all the other things that come along with that are secondary to the health

of that planter. That's why coaching is so important, it's to important here in St. Louis, it's so important

for the Send Network because without a healthy planter, we'll never plant healthy churches.

 

Dino Senesi: Excellent, and then that healthy coach is the backup, so we have to have healthy coaches

too right?

 

Noah Oldham: Amen. Yes coaches that are walking in step with the Lord, too. If Mike was just going

through the motions and was just fulfilling a role to be a "coach" and he wasn't following the Spirit I

don't know that the conversation would have gone that way, but because he was in tune with the Lord,

growing in his relationship, God used him in such a powerful way.

 

Dino Senesi: Well, and so much, and again enjoyed meeting Mike last fall, but so much in tune to what

was really, really important at the moment. He could have totally missed that, he could have said, "I'm

praying for you." He could have prayed for you but boy he really sensed, and no question from the Lord,

what a critical stage you guys were and in your own words probably wouldn't have made it without

having a coach like Mike.

 

Noah Oldham: Amen.

 

Dino Senesi: Just in closing, because we have a lot of coaches listening, I asked you to kind of think

about so you're speaking to a coach out there, you're using Mike's example, which is very encouraging

inspiration to all of us, so what word of encouragement or two would you give to a coach?

 

Noah Oldham: Yes, my main word that I think of when I think of coach is pursuit. As you are pursuing

that planter, planters they're going to be flakey, they're going to miss meetings, they're going to have

scheduling mishaps, they're going to make you feel maybe sometimes like coaching isn't the most

important thing on their daily schedule. Whether they know it or not, it's one of the most important

things that they can be doing, and so that coach being tenacious to pursue that planter, to pursue him in

questions in the middle of that coaching session, to pursue him and the Lord through prayer in between

those sessions, and to really not let him off the hook. Mike could have let me off the hook, I probably

would have been surface level, I probably wouldn't have shared what I needed to share and I wouldn't

have walked into the health that I feel like I'm able to walk into today because of that. Pursuit and

intentionality and tenacity with those guys and it's going to go well.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, well I think you gave them. Pursuit, intentionality, and tenacity right?

 

Noah Oldham: Yes.

 

Dino Senesi: Very good, and I love that profile because there is a stream of thought in a professional

coach that they make the person being coached 100% responsible for everything. I get that a coach can't

be codependent or those types of things, but there's a reality in our context we're coaching for the great

commission, we're coaching with the co-mission that we have with God, thus the pursuit of the planter

is everything. Be not weary and well doing coach.

 

Noah Oldham: Amen.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, so very good. Hey Noah, I really appreciate this snapshot of your story and your

vulnerability. I know there's other layers because I've heard it, but I think that we've gotten the

highlights of Mike Hubbard and your relationship with him, and also your heart to see coaches

reproduced in St. Louis. If you'll check in our show notes we will include the link to August Gate Church

so you could learn more about Noah Oldham. Also, my e-book has been updated for Principles and

Practices of Church Planter Coaching. If you'd like to sharpen your skills in coaching it's more of a

narrative version of the training we do. If you say, "I just want to read a list of things on how to ask great

questions," or "I want to read a list of things on the value of pure coaching." You're that kind of reader,

well that's free available on the Send Network coaching page. We'll put that link in the show notes as

well to help you sharpen skills as you coach church planters.

Noah, thank you for today.

 

Noah Oldham: You're welcome, thanks for having me.

 

Dino Senesi: Yes, very good. Until the next time, keep coaching.

 

Closing Remarks: You have been listening to The Coaching Podcast. A resource of the North American

Mission Board. Are you a church planter in need of a coach? Visit NAMB.net/Coaching to learn more.

 

 

Dino Senesi, director of church planting at the Send Network and George Ross, Send City Missionary for New Orleans, talk about benefits of coaching. The three main benefits are discovery, development and discernment. Listen to this two-part series for practical takeaways in coaching and church planting.

Visit GerogeRoss.net to find more resources from George Ross.

Dino Senesi is the Send Network coaching director at the North American Mission Board. Dino leads the team that provides leadership for creating indigenous coaching systems to help serve and develop church planters. He is the author of Sending Well: A Field Guide to Great Church Planter Coaching. In this podcast, Dino helps trainers develop confidence and competence in asking transformational questions that truly shape souls. 

1. Before you listen to this podcast, take this simple self-assessment. Use the following scoring scale. 

1 - Never. 

3 - Rarely. 

5 - Sometimes. 

7 - Usually. 

10 - Always. 

 

___ When I ask questions, people know that I have no agenda except their best interest.

___ I know how to ask questions that help others minister not only from their heads but also from their hearts.

___ Before I train, I think through and rehearse some fail-proof, “go-to” questions in case I get stuck as a trainer.

___ I have mastered the art of asking short questions.

___ I am a question “collector.” I know where to go to find good questions that I can put in my personal training tool kit.

___ Your total

 

What does this score tell you about your need to grow in your competence and confidence as a great question-asker?

2. Listen to the podcast featuring Dino Senesi. 

3. Dino mentioned that he was a born talker and teller—that when he was called to preach, he felt he was called to talk, not listen! That’s likely true for most of us as trainers of church planters. Put an X on the line below that best defines you right now.

 

talker/teller                                                                                    listener/asker

            ___________________________________________________________

 

Draw an arrow to where you would like to be. What’s one change/habit you could make/form to help you become the kind of trainer who listens and asks so that you can create the kind of environment that fosters a learner’s self-discovery?

4. When asked how he first became aware of the transforming power of great questions, Dino told the story about how his one-time executive coach, Bob Logan, asked the kinds of questions that opened up a window inside of Dino. He said that Bob’s questions helped him realize that he was ministering out of his head and not his heart. Dino began to see that asking the right questions can “create a sacred space” where the trainer “gets out of the way and the spotlight is on the learner.” Think back. Describe a time when someone asked you a question(s) that touched your soul deeply and, perhaps, changed the trajectory of your life. What’s a tweetable principle you can articulate from that experience? 

5. In our Train the Trainer Retreat, we introduce the 5 Hat Question Pathway. 1) The Fisherman pathway. 2) The Reporter Pathway. 3) The Physician Pathway. 4) The Pilot Pathway. 5) The Construction Pathway. Dino said that his favorite pathway might be the Pilot Pathway: “What’s next?” followed by “Why is that important to you?” What’s at least one go-to question you could write down that you will use in each of the 5 pathways? 

6. Dino mentioned a few of his go-to questions and approaches.

• What’s next?
• What’s motivating you?
• What’s your biggest question?
• I’m stuck.
• Let’s think about some options.
• And what else?

Which of these would you most like to add to your training tool kit? How do you think adding that question/approach might help you as a trainer? 

7. Dino mentioned several resources that have helped him ask better questions: 

Coaching Questions, by Tony Soltzfus

https://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Questions-Coachs-Powerful-Asking/dp/0979416361/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515095858&sr=1-1&keywords=Tony+Stoltzfus+Coaching+Questions 

50 Powerful Coaching Questions, by Keith Webb

https://keithwebb.com/50-powerful-coaching-questions/

40 Questions to Help You Coach in Deep Water, by Dino Senesi

https://www.namb.net/send-network-blog/40-questions-to-help-you-coach-in-deep-water

Peer Coaching Guide from the One Day Coaching MAP

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-PMcxODygsiCqJnh0FekBaUgb_plolCL

Sending Well: A Field Guide to Great Church Planter Coaching

https://www.amazon.com/Sending-Well-Church-Planter-Coaching/dp/1462751245/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515090682&sr=1-1

Which of these resources will you acquire and use to help you refine your skills as a question-asker?

8. Dino mentioned some “deep practice” opportunities for us to consider to help our growth:

• Read from the resources listed above and collect questions from them 
• Listen for trigger words in conversations to help you formulate questions
• Use “what?” and “how?” to create your own questions
• Develop a relationship with someone where you discipline yourself to only ask and not tell
• Practice asking questions with your spouse and your children/grandchildren’
• Which of these will you put into play immediately to help you grow?

9. Take some time to reflect on the experience of listening to this interview with Dino. Ask yourself, “What have I learned? What am I seeing that needs to be different, so I can ask questions that shape the souls of others? What is one personal practice that I need to implement? How do I need to adjust or add to my Traits of a Great Trainer?" 

Write down your answers. Tell someone—a team member, a fellow trainer, or your Regional Send Network Trainer—about the changes you want to make. Ask them to pray with you and encourage you. Now, develop a strategy— next steps— to make those changes a reality. 

Transcription

Introduction: Thank you for joining us on The Coaching Podcast. As part of the Send Network, we are passionate about equipping church planters to live out the call God has placed on their lives. Join us as we talk through healthy coaching practices and why every church planner needs one. Here's your host Dino Senesi.

Dino Senesi: Welcome to The Church Planter Coaching Podcast. My name is Dino Senesi and I am the coaching director of the Send network. Today we have with us George Ross. George Ross is the Send missionary in New Orleans. And so, how did I do on that George? Did I say New Orleans okay?

George Ross: You did okay. You did okay.

Dino Senesi: So very good. I love New Orleans and spent a lot of years down there and I love what God's doing with you George. But I just have to talk a little bit about the city of New Orleans, what do you love most about living in New Orleans?

George Ross: Absolutely, the culture. New Orleans is said to be an island in the south with French and Caribbean influences, the most laidback city in the world and I love the culture of the city.

Dino Senesi: Are you a Saints fan?

George Ross: I am a Saints fan. I was a Saints fan before I moved here actually. I moved from north Mississippi outside of Memphis, Tennessee and there are not a lot of options in that neck of the woods. So, I've been a Saints fan for a long time. It worked out well.

Dino Senesi: Yeah, there's a ton of Mississippi Saints fans because you really don't have a lot of options out that way. And if you live in New Orleans and you're not a Saints fan, you better hide somewhere because every man, woman and child seems to be one.

George Ross: Absolutely, and then Archie, so Archie Manning is Mississippi's favorite son, so that's another connection there to the Saints.

Dino Senesi: It's all crazy and win or lose, there's some tenacious Saints fans there and I'm still one myself, even in Carolina country. So I love that. Okay, so what's your favorite place to eat in New Orleans?

George Ross: Favorite place to eat is New Orleans Food and Spirit. My favorite place to eat.

Dino Senesi: Now, where is that George? I'm trying to place it.

George Ross: It's a little bit more of a local place. It's an area called Bucktown. So it's the Lakeview, Bucktown area. It's right next door to Orleans Parrish. It's just a local place and they serve some incredible seafood and just have great, great food. So, if you go in there, you won't see a lot of tourists but you will see a lot of locals. Really good place to eat.

Dino Senesi: I got you. What do you usually get?

George Ross: I usually get red fish. It's a great meal. It's got a crawfish sauce on top of it. Really, really good.

Dino Senesi: Yep. Sounds typical. And I'm sure a low calorie, healthy treat.

George Ross: It is low calorie if you just get the fish but I get the pasta and the sauce so I ruin it.

Dino Senesi: But you work out a lot so man, you make up for it right?

George Ross: I try to.

Dino Senesi: Very good. I love the story of your family and gosh, it's so ingrained in everything that you do, even in some of your coaching, and everything else but it's very unique. You enjoy your children, talk just a second about your family and maybe something you love to do together in New Orleans.

George Ross: Sure. We have a family of six. So, we have been foster parents for two years. And we adopted in March of this year. It's been a journey that was very difficult at times, very sanctifying journey. But we adopted two children here in New Orleans and they are part of our forever family. So, we're just so very grateful to the Lord for that, grateful to be a part of that picture. My family is very active. We actually love doing stuff outdoors. So here in New Orleans, in the summer time, that gets a little difficult with the heat but we love anything outside. We can camp, we canoe, a lot of kayaking around here so we do fishing around here. We have a very active, outdoor family. We also love the movies. If there's a good movie, we're going. We've already seen Spiderman Homecoming and my kids give it all a thumbs up.

Dino Senesi: Okay. Well that's important. That's better than reading online reviews. Let's hear some great reviews. Really good.
George Ross: Absolutely. Great movie.

Dino Senesi: So you're a Send Missionary. And I would think that most people listening would probably know what a Send Missionary is, but I'm sure there's some that wouldn't. So talk about what your role is in reaching the city of New Orleans.

George Ross: Really, four primary things for me right now. One, we put together a strategy, a plan, to have a church planting initiative here in the city. So we worked on that when we first got here and we want to see churches planted in neighborhoods all across New Orleans. The second thing that I do is help mobilize churches. The churches out in the south, or even farther outside the south, we've got some coming as far, right now as Ohio working in the city. So churches that are partnering in the city, we're trying to mobilize them in prayer, participation and provision. The third part of my job is planter support and planter support has to do with the coaching, with the planter support for the planter himself and the planter's family, the spouse. My wife is very engaged in that. Joy and I are active in planter support. Then the fourth part of my job is I'm very involved in Send Relief here as well. So, we're trying to see Send Relief initiatives, get some traction, take root here in the city. And I'm involved in that as well.

Dino Senesi: Wow. And I think there'd be a lot of great opportunities for Send Relief in a city like New Orleans.

George Ross: There really is. And we're just touching the surface of it right now. So a lot of good things happening and we look forward to more things in the future. We have 19 GenSend students here right now that have just done a tremendous job in the city and we'll be offering that yearly. So we're excited about the opportunity for collegiate students to come and work in the city, not only with church planting but to work in the city with many of our relief initiatives.

Dino Senesi: Very good. What a great way to communicate the love of Jesus to people in New Orleans too.

George Ross: Yes, absolutely.

Dino Senesi: So let's turn the page and talk a little bit about coaching. Since this is a coaching podcast, we have to go there. So I wanted to talk a little bit about your coaching story. What got you interested in coaching?

George Ross: I went to a gospel coach conference, and I'm almost positive it was 2009 in Chicago. So that was one led by Scott Thomas. He wrote the book Gospel Coach. My wife and I went, and to be honest, we were really at a place where we were dry and tired and exhausted in ministry, and I had no idea what the conference was about. I really didn't. We weren’t even planning it. My wife actually just spent some time resting. I went to the conference. And that conference was just monumental in helping me see some things that were very much neglected in my life. One of the questions that Scott posed is: Who is shepherding your soul? So Acts 20:28 says to pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Take care for the Church of God, which He obtained with His own blood. That question that was posed to me, if we're going to be shepherds of the flock, we need to pay careful attention to ourselves. Who's shepherding you and who's shepherding your soul? And I knew the answer to that for me at that time was no one. Because of that I was really struggling. I was struggling in marriage, I was struggling in ministry and I was just struggling in life. And the Lord used that to really convict me, to challenge me, to lead me to some real areas of repentance in my life. And I made a commitment at that conference that I would never neglect myself like I had neglected myself. And I had neglected my soul. So that was a turning point for me. That was a marker. I look back, and Joy and I talk about this all the time, that was one of the most defining spiritual markers of our life and our marriage. Even though she wasn't at the conference, she talks about it in our gospel coaching conferences that we do, that that was a turning point for me where I really decided to take ahold of my life, take ahold of the fact that I'm responsible for shepherding myself and to make some strategic choices and take initiatives in that area of my life.

Dino Senesi: Well, and you talk about powerful questions and how God could use a powerful question to change the course of someone's life. So if you're a coach out there, I don't think that questions are tools or weapons or something to manipulate people with, but if you're collecting great questions that is a great one. Who is shepherding your soul? The whole idea of self-leadership and shepherding yourself is great. So as you think about that, I want you to unpack gospel coaching just a little bit more, some of the nuances. I'm familiar with the book, I've read the book but from your perspective, what unique things does gospel coach training bring to the table?

George Ross: I think in a nutshell it brings it back to the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ. It makes you understand that your identity, your worth and your value is not in performance. And that is such a trap, especially for church planters. It's a trap for anyone in ministry but it's a major trap for guys in church planting. So really going back to your worth and value is rooted, is foundationally in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. And because of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, you're deeply loved by the Lord. You are approved by God. You're accepted by God and even more clearly in that picture, you're adopted by God. And those truths should really give you confidence, gospel confidence and it should give you gospel courage to be able to do the ministry that you're doing and not fall into the trap of having to have people's approval and living, dying on the hill of performance. For me, that's really what I took away from that. And I'm a performance-driven guy. I function by achievement and that's an idol for me. If I could achieve something and I can get to the end of it and I can accomplish it, achievement and accomplishment are huge things that I will allow my identity to be controlled by. So that was really a challenge for me from the gospel coach workshop, the gospel coach book that you need to be faithful. And you can be faithful because you're already approved, adopted and accepted in Christ Jesus. And that was just a huge foundational shift for me.

Dino Senesi: Well, and that's a difficult balance. Even when you talk about coaching. So I want you to address that in just a second. But when you think about coaching, the method or the model of coaching can become very performance, very flesh, very goal oriented in a counter-productive way. So as a coach, which you're a highly trained coach, highly experienced coach, how do you help a planter without making, putting him, in essence, under law, putting him in a performance track?

George Ross: First of all, just the clear communication of that foundational identity in Christ, who are you in Jesus? Which also should bring great motivation. One of the things in my life, I'm an active guy. I stay busy and I love that. I am a doer by nature. But one of the things I've transitioned my doing into, I'm not doing for God to love me anymore. I'm doing because I have been really loved. And I don't think you lose your initiative or you lose your activity. You just lose the motivation behind why you're doing it. My motivation for the longest time was for people to see what I've done. My motivation now, goodness gracious, we certainly battle this every day. Our motives can get off the wrong track but I'm always keeping in front of me, my motive is because I am loved and I have been approved and I have been adopted and accepted. And I've got a life to life for the Lord and I'm going to give him all that I've got. Without abandoning my priorities of my family, without abandoning my priorities of shepherding myself. I'm going to work for the glory of the Lord because he's worth it and my life's worth it. So for me it's a shift in motives. And that's what I'm trying to get church planters to understand. What's your motives behind what you're doing? And here's the flip side of that. Sometimes in church planting and sometimes in a little bit younger generation, I've heard this phrase used many times. I'm just going to rest in the gospel. And I've had to push back sometimes on planters, say hey you're going to have get up off your rear end and get busy. You just can't live your life resting in the gospel. It's a great word, a great phrase, but we also do have to make sure we're being fruitful, productive Christians.

Dino Senesi: And our tendency is always to over focus and over emphasize and find the negative in something incredibly positive.

George Ross: That's right. That's right.

Dino Senesi: So, really good. George, this is some very rich stuff for coaches to hear, some very foundational truths that's important. Understanding even as coaches, George, we understand the why behind the what because you talked about a shift in motives. Really, really strong to say why am I even doing what I'm doing? But a coach has to say why am I even coaching? Am I coaching for recognition and applause? Am I coaching to try to get more out of somebody else? So very well said. I hope a lot of coaches get to hear what we're talking about today. I want to wrap up on one thing, and that's actually three things that are one thing. You wrote a blog and I pushed it out to a lot of people on the coach monthly and on Twitter. Three reasons why coaching's beneficial. Three reasons why coaching's beneficial. And we'll have this in the show notes. But I wanted us to review three reasons. You hit some really solid, solid important points when it comes to coaching. So you had three. The first one you had is discovery. Talk about that a little bit.

George Ross: Yeah, we always see ourselves better than we really are. I do it. I think everyone does it. Part of coaching that is huge is the discovery. You have someone else hearing, listening, watching you. And that idea of self-awareness and self-consciousness that's so important to coaching, that discovery part of that I think is just essential for guys in leadership, guys in ministry. Coaching helps you know who you really are.

Dino Senesi: Yeah, I've heard that a good coach is a mirror in the life of the person that he's coaching so if God could use us to be a mirror for someone else, that's going to be really helpful as they discover. And then reason number two why coaching is beneficial, George, you said it's because of development.

George Ross: Yeah. I think the most dangerous place we can be is when we're stagnant, we're not going forward and we're not going back. So coaching is an opportunity for development. This past year, one of the things that I try to do every year is I try to go to a developmental conference. So this past year I picked multiply training. Mack and Charles do the training for trainers, and man, that just sharpened me. I needed that really bad because I had seen myself getting a little stagnant in some of my coaching conversations. And that particular conference and workshop was just huge for me. And they were my coaches for a couple of days. So I think coaching is developmental and it's helping you grow, and it's helping you not stay stagnant and it's helping you become a better leader.

Dino Senesi: Well, and multiply training and train the trainer is just A+. It’s still making the focal point of you and your development and your growth and so that's an incredible, incredible thing that's happening in a lot of our Send Cities now and it's amazing the progress they're making. So reason number two, or reason number one, was discovery. Reason number two was development and number three, a reason that coaching's beneficial according to you was discernment.

George Ross: Yeah. My greatest, one of my greatest struggles early on in church planting, when I was younger, planting a church outside of Memphis was just impulsiveness. I always felt like I had to do it and I had to do it now. And I look back over some of those decisions that were made in my life and if I'd had a coach speaking into that, a coach really listening to what I was about to do, I probably wouldn't have made some of the decisions that I made out of impulsive thinking. That I have to do this or we're going to die. I have to hire this person or we're not going to make it alive for the church. So coaching brings that level of discernment. We have other eyes and other ears listening to what you're doing, listening to what's going on and it can offer wise counsel to you.

Dino Senesi: Really great stuff. And you guys could find this in the show notes, the three reasons why coaching is beneficial. You'll be able to find some of George's other materials in the show notes as well. We're going to talk about that in a future podcast but George, thank you so very much. Not only for coming today and giving us a few minutes, but also for all that God's doing through you and those people around you in New Orleans, a great city, a great world city where you're making Jesus known in that city. So I really, really appreciate what you're doing. And also want to remind listeners that if you'll go to namb.net/podcast you could hear an entire, just a plethora, just picked that word out of the sky, a plethora of podcasts on all kinds of topics including Send Relief, which we mentioned today. They have a great podcast. Send Network had podcasts, more than just coaching podcasts. There's all kinds of things that'll help equip you and inspire you and encourage you in what God is asking you to do where you are right now. So until the next podcast, keep coaching.

Closing Remarks: You have been listening to The Coaching Podcast, a resource of the North American Mission Board. Are you a church planter in need of a coach? Visit namb.net/coaching to learn more.

Dino Senesi, director of coaching for the Send Network, talks with Jamie Limato and Jay Francoeur about coaching in the local church. Jamie, pastor and planter at Aletheia Church in Norfolk, Virginia, and Jay, pastor of vision, teaching and coaching at Cultivate Church in Voorhees, New Jersey, have several years of real-life experience with coaching, and they share about their knowledge. Listen to their discussion and visit namb.net/Coaching for more information.

 

Dino Senesi is the Send Network coaching director at the North American Mission Board. Dino leads the team that provides leadership for creating indigenous coaching systems to help serve and develop church planters. He is the author of Sending Well: A Field Guide to Great Church Planter Coaching. In this podcast, Dino helps trainers develop confidence and competence in asking transformational questions that truly shape souls. 

1. Before you listen to this podcast, take this simple self-assessment. Use the following scoring scale. 

1 - Never. 

3 - Rarely. 

5 - Sometimes. 

7 - Usually. 

10 - Always. 

 

___ When I ask questions, people know that I have no agenda except their best interest.

___ I know how to ask questions that help others minister not only from their heads but also from their hearts.

___ Before I train, I think through and rehearse some fail-proof, “go-to” questions in case I get stuck as a trainer.

___ I have mastered the art of asking short questions.

___ I am a question “collector.” I know where to go to find good questions that I can put in my personal training tool kit.

___ Your total

 

What does this score tell you about your need to grow in your competence and confidence as a great question-asker?

2. Listen to the podcast featuring Dino Senesi. 

 

3. Dino mentioned that he was a born talker and teller—that when he was called to preach, he felt he was called to talk, not listen! That’s likely true for most of us as trainers of church planters. Put an X on the line below that best defines you right now.

 

talker/teller                                                                                    listener/asker

            ___________________________________________________________

 

Draw an arrow to where you would like to be. What’s one change/habit you could make/form to help you become the kind of trainer who listens and asks so that you can create the kind of environment that fosters a learner’s self-discovery?

 

4. When asked how he first became aware of the transforming power of great questions, Dino told the story about how his one-time executive coach, Bob Logan, asked the kinds of questions that opened up a window inside of Dino. He said that Bob’s questions helped him realize that he was ministering out of his head and not his heart. Dino began to see that asking the right questions can “create a sacred space” where the trainer “gets out of the way and the spotlight is on the learner.” Think back. Describe a time when someone asked you a question(s) that touched your soul deeply and, perhaps, changed the trajectory of your life. What’s a tweetable principle you can articulate from that experience?

 

5. In our Train the Trainer Retreat, we introduce the 5 Hat Question Pathway. 1) The Fisherman pathway. 2) The Reporter Pathway. 3) The Physician Pathway. 4) The Pilot Pathway. 5) The Construction Pathway. Dino said that his favorite pathway might be the Pilot Pathway: “What’s next?” followed by “Why is that important to you?” What’s at least one go-to question you could write down that you will use in each of the 5 pathways? 

 

6. Dino mentioned a few of his go-to questions and approaches.

• What’s next?
• What’s motivating you?
• What’s your biggest question?
• I’m stuck.
• Let’s think about some options.
• And what else?

Which of these would you most like to add to your training tool kit? How do you think adding that question/approach might help you as a trainer?

 

7. Dino mentioned several resources that have helped him ask better questions:

 

Coaching Questions, by Tony Soltzfus

https://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Questions-Coachs-Powerful-Asking/dp/0979416361/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515095858&sr=1-1&keywords=Tony+Stoltzfus+Coaching+Questions

 

50 Powerful Coaching Questions, by Keith Webb

https://keithwebb.com/50-powerful-coaching-questions/

 

40 Questions to Help You Coach in Deep Water, by Dino Senesi

https://www.namb.net/send-network-blog/40-questions-to-help-you-coach-in-deep-water

 

Peer Coaching Guide from the One Day Coaching MAP

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-PMcxODygsiCqJnh0FekBaUgb_plolCL

 

Sending Well: A Field Guide to Great Church Planter Coaching

https://www.amazon.com/Sending-Well-Church-Planter-Coaching/dp/1462751245/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515090682&sr=1-1

 

Which of these resources will you acquire and use to help you refine your skills as a question-asker?

 

8. Dino mentioned some “deep practice” opportunities for us to consider to help our growth:

• Read from the resources listed above and collect questions from them 
• Listen for trigger words in conversations to help you formulate questions
• Use “what?” and “how?” to create your own questions
• Develop a relationship with someone where you discipline yourself to only ask and not tell
• Practice asking questions with your spouse and your children/grandchildren’
• Which of these will you put into play immediately to help you grow?

 

9. Take some time to reflect on the experience of listening to this interview with Dino. Ask yourself, “What have I learned? What am I seeing that needs to be different, so I can ask questions that shape the souls of others? What is one personal practice that I need to implement? How do I need to adjust or add to my Traits of a Great Trainer?"

 

Write down your answers. Tell someone—a team member, a fellow trainer, or your Regional Send Network Trainer—about the changes you want to make. Ask them to pray with you and encourage you. Now, develop a strategy— next steps— to make those changes a reality. 

Pastor Jay Francoeur of vision, teaching and coaching at Cultivate Church in Voorhees, NJ explains his church planter coaching process. Learn more about Jay and Cultivate Church at www.cultivatenj.com/home.   

To discover blogs, tools and other coaching resources go to www.namb.net/coaching.