In this special episode, co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith discuss how, when the church acts on the consumer mentality of the Church, it accomplishes less. You will hear illustrations about the importance of choosing the best options for your church and on how to limit those options to focus more on evangelism.

What do you need to take away from the church to make it more evangelistic?

To learn more, visit the Evangelism blog at www.namb.net/yourchurchonmission. You can also email us at [email protected].    

Additional resources:

• Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action

Transcript

Announcer: Presented by the Evangelism Department of the North American Mission Board, this is Your Church on Mission Evangelism Podcast, the podcast to help pastors be on mission in their local communities. Here's your host, Joel Southerland.

Joel S.: Welcome to Your Church on Mission. I'm your host, Joel Southerland, and this is the Evangelism Podcast of the North American Mission Board. Hey, recently I read an article by Simon Sinek who wrote the book, Start with Why. He wrote this article several years ago, but I thought it was really important to maybe mention it today as we talk about evangelism.

Joel S.: In the article, he talks about a shoe salesman in the 1950s named Ben Prober who went on to own a very, very successful chain of women's shoe stores. The prices at his store weren't the cheapest. The selections weren't that different than any other store in town. The stores themselves were pretty basic. They were nice, but nothing that our design and experience obsessed era would consider any kind of competitive advantage, so with no apparent superior offering or value added, Prober Shoes managed to outsell their competition year after year after year.

Joel S.: When Ben was asked, "What's your secret to success?", here's what he always said, "Two, not three. Two, not three." Ben understood something about human beings that modern businesses and even churches have forgotten, and here's what it is, "More choice is bad." Let me tell you how he fleshed it out.

Joel S.: When a lady came into one of his shops, the odds were good that she would want to try on more than one pair of shoes. If she already had two styles to choose from and she asked for a third option, here's what Ben would say. I love this. He would say, "Of course, madame, I'd be happy to fit you the style of your choice. Now, which one would you like for me to take away?" What Ben learned is that, when his customer had two options, they could easily make a choice about which style they preferred. However, when they had three or more to choose from, they had more trouble making a decision and, more often than not, left the store without any shoes.

Joel S.: Here's the truth. Even in business, even if customers think they want more choice, the facts are overwhelmingly against them. Not only are we more likely to make a purchase with fewer options, but the confidence we have in our choices and satisfaction we get from these choices is considerably higher than if we're forced to choose from a larger selection. In other words, the only result of competing with more is you do less, you sell less. I want to compare that and bring that into church world in this podcast because what happens is, in churches, we wind up offering so much to meet the consumer mentality of our members, we actually wind up accomplishing less.

Joel S.: I'm joined by my co-host today, Scott Smith, who's an evangelism consultant with the Georgia Baptist Mission Board. Scott, most churches need to simplify a little bit, don't they?

Scott Smith: Yeah, they really do. It's kind of like government regulations. We add them, and we typically don't take the old ones away, so it becomes burdensome after a while. It becomes too heavy-laden with too many options. It's a frog in a kettle thing, right? It doesn't happen overnight. It's slow so we don't notice that we've just got too much on the agenda or just simply [inaudible 00:03:51] we're trying to funnel our visitors and our members into.

Joel S.: I think that ... I love the frog in the kettle analogy for this because I think that's what happens. Over time, in the life of a minister of a church, we added a lot of good ministries, and we added ministries when they were hot, when it fit the culture of the time, when it fits the context of the time, and then what we never did was take away any of the other options. Not only do we have the best current cutting-edge ministry going on at our church, we also have the ministry that worked 20 years ago going on at our church.

Scott Smith: I think one of the core problems, though, is that we don't have a system whereby we evaluate, not only the new ideas, but whether or not the old ideas are still working so, without any kind of a litmus test or a filter or checklist or evaluation assessment system in place, things tend to stay on the registry of options.

Joel S.: Yeah. That's also ... Man, I think since both of us are in evangelism, we both would argue that the litmus test perhaps you ought to consider is how many people are coming across through that ministry. That's not a bad gauge for is a ministry working or not, right?

Scott Smith: Exactly. At the end of the day, I mean, the Great Commission is really the great filter for what we endorse as a worthwhile idea in a church. I know we'll say more about this in some future podcasts that we're kind of kicking around with conversations. I think there's a lot to say about that, but I think back down to brass tacks is, at the end of the day, we have to evaluate our evangelists' effectiveness first, and that means every program in the church and every option that we give our people, ultimately, is traced back to how it impacts our evangelistic effectiveness.

Joel S.: What's going wrong in most churches is and, Scott, you preach in a lot of churches and I have over the years, as well, so you go to announcement time. You go to the average church, Scott, and you open up a bulletin, and it's probably a tri-fold document that has tons of options in it. I mean, we're seeing multiple kid, multiple student, multiple adults, senior adults, ministries on Sunday, Wednesday, Monday, Thursday.

Joel S.: At the end of the day, though it sounds okay, like, "Well, we want a ministry for everybody in the church," really, in all probability, you're giving them three pairs of shoes instead of two, and most people are going to walk away not having made a purchase. They're going to walk away and not engage with anything you have going on because they can't figure out what should they engage with, this [inaudible 00:06:50], so when you throw in another announcement about a new ministry you're starting, I think sometimes it just cripples people, doesn't it?

Scott Smith: It does. I think we forget that everything communicates. Everything communicates. Your announcements really communicate what your church is really about, what's the heartbeat of your church, your brochure, the website, the different things that are listing all these options, where we're finding out about them, they're communicating what is the heartbeat of your church. I think a lot of ministries can be directly traced back to evangelism. A lot of servant ministry opportunities and things like that, because of the way it's phrased or worded or what it's called but, for most churches, at least in my experience, for most churches, our announcements basically say, "We like to keep people busy. We like to keep people busy."

Scott Smith: Some churches, if you look at the menu, it's all about going deeper, right? You're communicating, "We are a church that likes to go deeper. We're a church that likes to really focus on discipleship, and its classes and small groups and on everything under the sun. Nothing wrong with that by any stretch, but there are those church, when you go into a highly evangelistic church, one that's really getting it done in evangelism, you don't have to have anybody interpret it to you.

Scott Smith: As a matter of fact, the very person who's making the announcements, if that is a part of their service, invariably communicates something about so that people can be saved, even if they're saying, "Look, we did this last year and, man, we had 18 people saved and we're excited about what's going to happen this year." Evangelism bleeds out when evangelism is the driver of the activities.

Joel S.: Yeah, so you can't have ... This is great, great wording. What that means is, you can't have all these activities going on that are non-evangelistic because when you give them options, too many options, I mean, here's what we know. Experience tells us and observation tells us people will choose the non-evangelistic option.

Scott Smith: Right, right. This conversation assumes that we're really talking about assimilation, and I think that's what keeps a lot of us up at night is, how do we assimilate, how do we get people from being a nominal member to really involved and being a tither and a worker and really using their gifts? It's almost like spray and pray. The more options I put out there for our people to plug into, they're going to plug into something.

Scott Smith: Surely, the longer the menu, they're going to find something, right, but it kind of goes back to would you rather go to cheesecake factory where it takes 40 minutes to order because you literally have to read through countless different types of food and one menu to even make a choice or do you just want to the best barbecue place in town where you know you're going to have your order in in ten minutes and enjoy the meal.

Scott Smith: It goes back to exactly what you were saying earlier. We do want to assimilate but, ultimately, every believer is to be assimilated into disciple-making, but Biblical disciple-making has evangelism at its core so, at the end of the day, it's not just, "Do I get them plugged in for the sake of getting plugged in?" We can always come up with creative ideas to get people to plug into something, but chances are that's going to cause us, by default, to create options that are easier to plug into, and the easier options to plug into are almost never evangelistic or have evangelism involved.

Joel S.: It's exactly right, so you're actually your own worst enemy because you're creating avenues for people to get involved that it may build fellowship. There's some good things that come out of those but, at the end of the day, is not helping you push forward in what we want to be doing, which is reaching our community for the cause of Christ. They almost become diversions so, when I sit you down and I put 20 pairs of shoes in front of you, you know, it's almost like you lose me. You know, it's like, "Well, that's too much. I can't make a decision when it comes to that."

Scott Smith: I think a lot of pastors may not be ready to fight this battle but, if you had to say, "Look. In order for us to add a new activity, number one, is it going to be evangelistic? Number two, what are the two other church activities or programs that we would have to take away?" What if we required ourselves that? You've heard of some ... Actually, I've heard of some state governments doing that. We will add no new regulations without taking two off the books. What if you had to do that with your church menu of things to plug into?

Joel S.: I think that's where the podcast is kind of landing and the reason we started it is that. This is not about what are you going to start next? This is about what do you need to take away? In church life, we're familiar with the term 'purging the rolls' where we look through our membership rolls and we say, "Who's on there that shouldn't be? They've passed away. We know they've joined another church. They moved to Kalamazoo. They're not really on our rolls," but when is the last time as a pastor you sat down and did that with your ministries?

Joel S.: We're going to purge our ministries, and we're going to take away the things that we really, A, don't want to be doing anymore, B, are not getting any support from the membership really anymore, there's kind of one guy hanging onto it or, C, doesn't really help us fulfill what we think our vision is for our church in reaching our community anyway. Those are hard calls and tough decisions for a pastor to make.

Scott Smith: Some ministries need to be fired.

Joel S.: Yeah, that's right.

Scott Smith: You know, they're not performing their job description anymore, Kingdom-wise. Honestly, if the only reason that a ministry is still on the books, I know it gets into local church politics based on where you are in your ministry, whether you've been two years or five years, but let's be honest. If your ministry is only on the program list, or if that ministry is only on the program list because of sentimental reasons, because it was Aunt Mabel's idea way back in the day or the one that started it was Chairman of Deacons at the time or whatever and we want to keep ...

Scott Smith: I mean, really, at the end of the day, we have to decide what's going to be the driver of every ministry in the church, and there's no way we can take the Great Commission out as a huge determining factor in whether it stays or goes.

Joel S.: I think here's a great way to ask that question. Maybe, Scott, you push back if you don't think so, but here's the question to ask. If you currently didn't have the ministry we're talking about, would you start it?

Scott Smith: Oh, that's great.

Joel S.: So, if I hadn't already made that ministry ten years ago, would I start it today? If the answer is, "No, I wouldn't start that today," then why are you letting it zap resources up from your church, whether that be man hours, money, attention, whatever that may be? If you weren't excited about that ministry today, if you wouldn't go, "Oh, man, this is the thing that's really going to change our church," then you might ought to have a hard look about, "Do we need to keep this going on or not?" because we know options paralyze people, and they're only going to give you so much, and they tend to choose the easiest one and, oftentimes, the easiest one's not the one that leads to reaching people in your community or even growing Christians in your church.

Scott Smith: What does it say to your church when you start paring down the options and, especially, stating that the ones that are sticking around, the ones that are there are there because it helps your church reach more people for Jesus in that community?

Joel S.: Yep. Hey, I'll tell you this. As a pastor, sometimes it's something you started. Sometimes, it's not the Chairman of the Deacons' idea or Ms. Myrtle's idea. Sometimes, it was your idea, and that's where to start maybe is, "Hey, this was a good idea years ago, but not so much today, and we're going to simplify in order to get better." It sends a message to the church when you're willing to part with your own favorite ministry in order to move the mission forward.

Scott Smith: Absolutely.

Joel S.: Hey, pastor, that would be just an encouraging word for you today. Maybe look at your ministry roll and maybe consider doing a ministry purge and realize that you can actually reach more people by doing less, by focusing their leadership ability, your resources, their time, their money, their energy into the things that matter the most, and you'll be shocked at how much better your ministries will become.

Joel S.: Hey, to find out more about evangelism, always be sure and visit namb.net/yourchurchonmission or namb.net/evangelism. Thanks for listening to the podcast today.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to Your Church on Mission Evangelism Podcast. To find out more about leading your church on mission, be sure and check out the blog, www.namb.net/yourchurchonmission. To send in a comment or question, email it to [email protected]..

What comes first, church health or evangelism? Join co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith as they discuss with special guest, Gary Comer, the answer to this important question. Discover which comes first and why in this episode of Your Church On Mission podcast.

Learn more at namb.net/evangelism or email us at [email protected]. 

Additional resources below:

• ReMission: Rethinking How Church Leaders Create Movement

By Gary S. Comer

• Soul Whisperer: Why the Church Must Change the Way It Views Evangelism

By Gary S. Comer

• Soul Whisperer Ministries

https://soulwhispererministry.com/

• Twitter @gcomerministry

Gary Comer

In this special episode, Joel Southerland and co-host Scott Smith discuss the secret to achieving your evangelism goals. Learn specific tools gathered from a recent study on evangelism strategy and the church, and how it applies to evangelism training. 

Want to learn more? Visit namb.net/evangelism. Have questions? Email us at [email protected].

In the second episode of this two-part series, host Joel Southerland continues the discussion of first impressions and churches with Rebecca Carlisle of To Be Received Ministries, aimed at redefining hospitality in the Church. Hear Rebecca’s insightful list of resources that will help churches with first impression ministries (from the welcome center to the kids ministry to refreshments and snacks before worship and sermon service).

For more information, visit namb.net/evangelism. To connect with To Be Received Ministries, visit www.tobereceived.com.

See Rebecca Carlisle’s recommended resources below:

• “Secrets of the Secret Shopper”

By: Greg Atkinson

• “First Impressions”

By Mark Waltz

• “The Vision Room” blog

By Bob Adams with Elevation Church

• “Connective Tissue: 2-Ply for your noggin”

By Danny Franks with Summit Church

In the first episode of this two-part series, co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith discuss with Rebecca Carlisle of To Be Received Ministries the importance of first impressions in ministry and the role it plays in helping people come to faith in Christ.

Discover key factors newcomers weigh when deciding whether they will return to your church or not and how parking lot greeters are an important first contact for guests.

Check out part 2 on the Your Church On Mission blog at namb.net/yourchurchonmission.

See Rebecca Carlisle’s recommended resources below:

• “Secrets of the Secret Shopper” By: Greg Atkinson

• “First Impressions” By Mark Waltz

• “The Vision Room” blog By Bob Adams with Elevation Church

• “Connective Tissue: 2-Ply for your noggin” By Danny Franks with Summit Church

Co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith speak with Alvin Reid, author of “Sharing Jesus Without Freaking Out,” about the importance of pastors mastering the art of personal evangelism. Discover why pastors should be able to share Jesus and encourage their congregations to replicate their skills. 

Learn more at https://www.namb.net/send-network. 

For this special episode, host Joel Southerland is joined by John Meador, pastor of First Baptist Church in Euless, Texas and founder of One Conversation—a ministry for evangelism. Discover why the North American Mission Board (NAMB) and One Conversation have partnered together to engage churches in evangelism with a course called Live This and how this can benefit your congregation today.

For more resources, visit namb.net/evangelism.

Host Joel Southerland discusses the importance of pastors’ encouraging, training and coaching church members to share their faith. Listen to clips from pastor Jimmy Scroggins of Family Church in West Palm Beach, Florida, and discover how you can begin a gospel conversation in your every day encounters. 

For more information on gospel conversations, visit https://www.namb.net/video/3-circles-life-conversation-guide. 

Co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith share wisdom about how churches measure success on member contentment and finances being met instead of on evangelism and outreach initiatives. Listen to a clip from leading evangelistic pastor Ken Whitten, Idlewood Baptist Church, Lutz, Fl., and dissect his words along with YCOM podcast hosts.

For more resources, visit namb.net/evangelism.

An interview with Brad Ball

How does worship create an evangelistic culture within a church? Listen to co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith as they interview special guest, Dr. Brad Ball, pastor of Bethsaida Baptist Church in Dublin, Ga., on challenges he faces in relation to evangelism at Bethsaida plus how inviting people to worship is important in boosting evangelistic culture. 

Check out our blog at www.namb.net/yourchurchonmission, or email us at [email protected] with any questions.

Discover the power of personal testimony. Co-hosts Joel Southerland and Scott Smith interview pastor Greg Jackson of First Southern Baptist Church in Camden, Ohio, where he divulges the challenges and triumphs of fostering evanglism in a medium-sized church. Gain takeaways and some helpful tips to creating a faith-sharing culture through telling your story.

For more resources, visit namb.net/evangelism.