Myths and storytelling have been a part of human culture since ancient times. From the oral traditions of indigenous peoples to the epic tales of gods and heroes, stories have shaped our understanding of the world, our place in it, and our deepest desires.

For artists, these narratives offer more than a glimpse into the past—they are a source of guidance, inspiration, and meaning. 

In this final conversation of our ‘Reclaiming Wonder’ series, I am joined by renowned storyteller, mythologist and Christian thinker Martin Shaw.

In our conversation, Martin and I discuss the profound relationship between storytelling and the arts. Martin shares the importance of allowing stories to remain wild, to breathe, and not become domesticated by rushing to interpretation. We discuss the concept of being 'wedded to the wild' and the role of artists in re-wilding faith.

You can learn more about Martin’s work here

You can explore our library of over 300 episodes with artists, mystics, theologians, and creative thinkers at http://www.makersandmystics.com

Thank you to everyone who has followed along in this series of conversations. I’d love to hear from you. Which conversations inspired you most? Which ones did you wrestle with or skip over? Send me a line, and if you want to go deeper into these conversations, please consider joining our creative collective at http://www.patreon.com/makersandmystics

We’d love to have you with us. 

I hope to meet you all at The Breath and The Clay event March 21-23, in Winston Salem, NC.

When you see me, come say hi. You’ll be in good company with other artists and creative seekers such as John Mark McMillan, Amanda Cook, Sho Baraka, Joshua Luke Smith, Kendra Apache, Elissa Weichbrodt and many others. 

The new year is a time of reflecting, looking back over the lengths I’ve come, evaluating what has transpired in my life and in my inner life, and then looking ahead, seeking clarity and direction for where I will place my time, resources and attention for the months to come.  

I find that a large part of transitioning from one moment in time to another involves letting go of the past, often grieving our losses, and making peace with the life we have rather than pining after the life we thought we would have or wanted to have. Then, through the mystery of the process, finding wonder even in grief, and in the midst of ordinary life. 

My guest today is someone who has seen grief and loss in her own life and who also helps others on their journey through grief. She is one who has learned to recognize wonder in the most unexpected places, like grief and in letting go of the past. Her journey has led her through many different faith practices as well as her creative life has taken on many shapes and forms.  

Today, I’m speaking with Award-winning author, contemporary translator of sacred literature, international speaker, and world-renowned teacher of contemplative practice and inter-spiritual dialog, Mirabai Starr. 

This conversation was recorded earlier in 2024, but I think as we move into this new year, the conversation offers a timely invitation to find beauty even amidst our losses and to hold space for the every day to become a place of spiritual and creative transformation.  

Much of our conversation centers on grief as an unexpected doorway to wonder. Mirabai shares about her most recent book, Ordinary Mysticism, which Ann Lamont calls a gorgeous, transformative, welcoming book for anyone who longs to feel more present, more alive, more joyful, and aware of the holiness of daily life.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy a longer unedited version of this conversation which includes several additional stories of my own and several from Mirabai.  Visit Patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

GET TICKETS TO THE BREATH AND THE CLAY MARCH 21-23 2025.  

Wesley Vander Lugt is a pastor, theologian, writer, and arts advocate. He teaches theology and directs the Leighton Ford Center for Theology, the Arts and Gospel Witness at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Charlotte North Carolina. Wes holds a PhD in Theology, Imagination and the Arts from the University of St Andrews, and his latest books are Beauty is Oxygen: Finding a Faith that Breathes and the forthcoming A Prophet in the Darkness: Exploring Theology in the Art of Georges Rouault.

In my conversation with Wes, we discuss his latest book Beauty Is Oxygen and the role beauty plays in our experiences of wonder. 

This episode is sponsored by The Breath and The Clay Creative Arts Organization, exploring the intersections of art, faith and culture. Our next gathering is March 21-23 in Winston Salem, NC. and features a diverse roster of presenters and performers, including Sho Baraka, Amanda Cook, John Mark McMillan, and many others.  Tickets are on sale now at thebreathandtheclay.com

The Breath and The Clay is returning to Winston Salem, NC!! Join us March 21-23rd, 2025, for our annual creative arts gathering!

This event will feature musical performances, an immersive art gallery, keynote talks, various workshops, and community discussions.

Participating artists include Sho Baraka, Kendra Adachi, John Mark McMillan, Molly Parden, Justin McRoberts, and many, many others.

You can find out more about the event and reserve your spot today at thebreathandtheclay.com.

Visual Artists and Film-makers! Submit your works for inclusion in our immersive art gallery here.

Follow the event on Instagram for regular updates @thebreathandtheclay

Rob Bell is the New York Times Best-Selling author of fourteen books and plays, which have been translated into 25 languages. His visual art can be seen on Instagram @realrobbell. His band is HUMANS ON THE FLOOR, and his podcast is The RobCast. 

Today on Makers and Mystics, Rob and I are talking about his Interplanetary tale of love, loss, and bread, his sci-fi fantasy novel Where’d You Park Your Spaceship.

In our conversation, we discuss following creative tangents and the long curiosity that keeps inviting us to follow them. 

This episode is sponsored by The Breath and The Clay Creative Arts Organization. Our next gathering is March 21-23 in Winston Salem NC. Tickets are on sale now. 

Katherine May is an internationally renowned writer, podcaster and speaker whose work touches on nature, spirituality, slow living and neurodivergence.

Her hybrid memoir Wintering was a global bestseller, adapted as BBC Radio 4’s Book of the Week, and shortlisted for the Porchlight and Barnes & Noble Book of the Year. Her most recent title, Enchantment became an instant New York Times bestseller.  

In our conversation Katherine and I discuss the common need for rediscovering pathways into enchantment and wonder. We discuss her concept of wintering and how even our most difficult times can become sources of creative and spiritual nourishment.  

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an exclusive segment of our conversation where Katherine and I unpack the phrase “secular mystic” as she’s described in the inner sleeve of Wintering.  

I’d like to personally invite you to join us at The Breath and The Clay creative arts gathering March 21-23 2025 in Winston Salem, NC. Get Tickets here.

The question of when it is time to let go of a dream haunts most creatives at one time or another. Living out our sense of fidelity to a creative vision shifts and changes over time, just as the demands of life shift and change over time. But finding a way forward can be challenging, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.  Film producer Thomas Torrey has tackled this question in his recent musical drama Long December. 

Thomas Torrey is a writer/director/producer based in the Southeast. His production company, Bad Theology, has produced three feature films, including the 2017 ride-share thriller FARE, which the Los Angeles Times called “stunning” and Bloody Flicks named as one of the Ten Best Films of the Year; the 2020 mind-bender MINOR PREMISE, which Forbes called “one of the best sci-fi thrillers of the past decade”; and the newly released musical drama LONG DECEMBER, winner of the 2024 One In A Million Award at the Sun Valley Film Festival. Thomas continues to produce films under Bad Theology and also founded a company called Protagonist, with a mission to help entrepreneurs and business leaders communicate and craft their stories through documentaries and social media content. You can follow Long December @longdecember.movie, Bad Theology @badtheology, and Protagonist @protagonist.company. 

I caught up with Thomas in his hometown of Charlotte, North Carolina, to discuss the new film and the creative process behind its making. 

Many of our listeners will be familiar with several members of the cast, including long-time friends of the podcast, John Mark McMillan and Stephen Williams of Jude Moses. 

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment with Thomas on the power of community in the creative process. Visit patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more. 

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Early Bird Tix to The Breath and The Clay March 21-23, 2025!!!

Watch Long December

Makers and Mystics has teamed up with New Zealand's Sunday Sanctuary Podcast for a special collaborative episode.

For the November 10th episode of Sunday Sanctuary, Stephen Roach joins host Petra Bagust for a chat about poetry, creativity, and the different ways that noticing the small wonders of the world can reopen, restore, and change our lives.

In this segment of the conversation, Petra and Stephen discuss the wonder found in Maori culture, storytelling, and the gift of our elders.

Petra Bagust is a multi-talented Aotearoa, New Zealand media personality, writer, and advocate. Her passion for creativity and ethical living resonates with a wildly diverse audience, making her one of New Zealand’s most sought-after radio and television hosts since the nineties.

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Attend our Advent Book Club!

For many people, and perhaps even for some of our listeners, the Bible elicits a very different response from one person to another. For some, it is a source of comfort and spiritual nourishment, even a great source of creative inspiration, while for others, it brings up difficult questions or even negative emotions and uncomfortable associations. 

But as we’ve talked this season about disenchantment and reclaiming wonder, I’m curious if taking a second look at this collection of stories, songs, and spiritual directives may be yet another unexpected doorway into wonder. 

My guest today is author and scholar Cheryl Bridges Johns.  Cheryl is the author of four books including Re-enchanting The Text: Rediscovering the Bible As Sacred, Dangerous and Mysterious. 

In our conversation, we discuss the impact of looking at scripture solely from a didactic viewpoint and what may occur in the reader who instead approaches the Bible as a mystical text with the uncanny ability to change and transform, even re-enchant its reader with a renewed spiritual vitality and understanding of God and the human condition. Cheryl and I also discuss the importance of nature as God’s second book and the role of imagination in creating the world around us.  

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment with Cheryl offering several practices to unlock a renewed vision on your creative and spiritual life.  

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Music in this episode by: Some Were At Sea

Lacey Sturm is a Grammy-nominated queen of hard rock who secured a place in rock history as the first solo woman to top the Billboard Hard Rock Albums chart with her debut album Life Screams. With a career spanning songs like “All Around Me,” “I’m So Sick,” “Again,” “Impossible,” “State of Me'' and most recently “Awaken Love,”

Lacey Sturm has proven herself as one of the most powerful and enduring voices in hard rock. She is also a sought-after speaker and author, penning the autobiographical books The Reason, The Mystery and The Return. Also a dedicated wife and mother, Lacey tours with her family, supported on stage by her guitarist husband Josh Sturm. You can connect with Lacey at www.laceysturm.com

In this episode, Lacey shares openly about walking through devastating experiences early in life and the role music played in helping her find healing. She shares about her life now and how changing seasons bring out unexpected encounters with beauty and hope.

*Also, just a heads up, our talk today includes sensitive subject matter, including mental health, abuse, and domestic violence.

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Name Drops:
Mr. Rogers, Nirvana, Tim Burton, Spiderman

Topics:
Art and Identity, Looking for the Helpers, Hope, Hurricane Katrina, Multiverse, Music

Trigger Warnings: Domestic Violence, Abuse, Addiction, Death 

Russ Ramsey is an author and pastor with a passion for uniting art and faith. He has been in vocational ministry for more than twenty years and currently serves as the lead pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church’s Cool Springs location. He holds an MDiv and ThM from Covenant Theological Seminary, and is the author of six books, including Rembrandt is in the Wind: Learning to Love Art through the Eyes of Faith (Zondervan 2022), and Behold the King of Glory, recipient of the 2016 Christian Book Award for New Author. Russ was also a founding contributor and member of The Rabbit Room and is a featured speaker each year at The Rabbit Room’s annual conference, Hutchmoot. 

In today’s episode Russ discusses his new book, Van Gogh has a Broken Heart. The conversation explores how Van Gogh’s life and art reveal universal themes of struggle and wonder and what Van Gogh reveals about the human condition.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment on why the arts are important to communities of faith. Visit Patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more. 

Name Drops:  Van Gogh, Norman Rockwell, Paul Simon, Rembrandt, 

Books: The Sunflowers Are Mine, Van Gogh Has A Broken Heart 

Topics: Suffering, Van Gogh, Wonder, Faith, Honesty in art, mental health, emotional well-being

Trigger Warning: This episode deals with topics of racism, mental health, and suicide.

Van Gogh Letters

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