Whoever wins the election, Americans will still want to rip each other's heads off. Social psychologist Jay Van Bavel helps us understand why we should care about polarization, how we got here, and what, if anything, we can do about it. 

From the episode: 

• Jay Van Bavel is a social psychologist at New York University and the author of The Power of Us: Harnessing Our Shared Identities to Improve Performance, Increase Cooperation, and Promote Social Harmony: https://www.powerofus.online/
• The paper on political sectarianism Jay co-wrote: https://www.jayvanbavel.com/_files/ugd/9c6579_b289e58eb65b461aa67c03f4cc5d4804.pdf
• Follow Jay on X and Instagram: @jayvanbavel

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw, with help from Anakaren Santana
• Edited by Tim Howard
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram: @proxypodcast @yoweishaw

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

We all know that moment - when you feel like you need to cry in front of other people, but don't want to cry. In this episode, Yowei talks to Heather Christle, the author of The Crying Book, to parse what’s happening in that moment, what tears are saying and how we should respond to them. 

From the episode:

• Heather Christle is a poet and professor at Emory University. She has a new book coming out in March called In the Rhododendrums: A Memoir with Appearances by Virginia Wolf. It's available for preorder in all the usual places. You can follow Heather on Twitter and Instagram @heatherchristle. 
• The Thai Life insurance commerical from our crying experiment

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw and Kim Nederveen Pieterse
• Edited by John DeLore
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

Recently, Yowei noticed a pattern among new friends she's making. These friends all make her feel lighter, more playful, and listened to... and they all have a background in improv comedy. 

Today, we're sharing an interview that gets inside the head of an improv comedian to see how they connect with other people. 

This episode comes from ReThinking, a podcast where organizational psychologist Adam Grant has lively discussions and debates with people about new thoughts and new ways of thinking. 

In the interview, Adam talks to comedian Mae Martin about the value of vulnerability in connection and life lessons from the art of improvisation.

Listen to more episodes of ReThinking, here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rethinking/id1554567118

Finally, a campaign reveal. Did we get additional funding to hire Kim for more hours? Plus, some updates for what’s in store for Proxy. 

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw and Kim Nederveen Pieterse
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and other goodies, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast.

Other ways you can support:

• Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.
• Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Twitter for updates, BTS, and shenanigans.
• Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast platform.
• Sign up for our free newsletter at patreon.com/proxypodcast.
• Share with loved ones and spread the word! We don't have a marketing budget and rely on word of mouth.

The final installment of Yowei's quest to solve the mystery of proxy converations. 

In this episode, Yowei talks to a ritual expert and tries explaining what she's learned about proxy conversations to her mom. 

From the episode:

• Michael Norton is a behavior scientist, Harvard Business School professor, and the author of The Ritual Effect: From Habit to Ritual, Harness the Surprising Power of Everyday Actions. 
• Yowei's unhinged grieving ritual for her layoff: Gold Star (The Layoff Song)

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw and Kim Nederveen Pieterse
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

Part 3 of Yowei's extremely meta quest to solve the mystery of proxy conversations. 

In this episode, Yowei learns about psychodrama, a psychotherapy that has similarities to proxy conversations and used to be a dominant modality in the U.S. and then died. Dr. Scott Giacomucci breaks down the mechanics of proxy conversations and tries his psychodrama techniques on Yowei. 

From the episode: 

• Dr. Scott Giacomucci is an expert in psychodrama and the director of the Phoenix Center for Experiential Trauma Therapy in Media, Pennsylvania. 
• Download Scott's textbook about psychodrama for free.
• Follow Scott on YouTube.

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw and Kim Nederveen Pieterse
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

Part 2 of Yowei's quest to solve the mystery of proxy conversations. Why do they work?  How? Can Yowei figure out how to explain the show to people who don't get it?

In this episode, Yowei gets advice from actor, comedian, and proxy conversation expert Connor Ratliff. 

Over 20 years ago, Tom Hanks fired Connor from a small role in the HBO mini-series Band of Brothers - apparently for having "dead eyes." But is that really what happened? Connor made a podcast called Dead Eyes to investigate, and had 30 episodes worth of proxy conversations before talking to Tom Hanks himself. 

Check out Connor Ratliff's work:

• Dead Eyes podcast
• Tiny Dinos podcast
• The George Lucas Show

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw and Kim Nederveen Pieterse
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

Yowei has a problem. She's having trouble explaining the show to people who don't get it. She knows proxy conversations work. But why? How?

Part 1 of a 4-part quest to solve the mystery of proxy conversations. Yowei learns about a proxy conversation happening in a completely different context: restorative justice with proxy survivors and offenders. 

From the episode:

• Alissa Ackerman is a criminal justice professor at California State University and the co-founder of Ampersands Restorative Justice. She wrote a book about vicarious restorative justice called Healing from Sexual Violence.

Episode credits:

• Produced by Yowei Shaw and Kim Nederveen Pieterse
• Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

Teaser for full-length exclusive bonus episode on Patreon. An in-depth interview with UMass Amherst sociologist and professor Ofer Sharone about the stigma trap that laid off workers can fall into and how the myth of meritocracy impacts even people who don't think they believe in it. For the full bonus episode, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast.

From the episode:

• Ofer Sharone's book The Stigma Trap

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

With every layoff, there's the blackbox of what's really going on behind the scenes. Why did it go down the way it did? Was it really not about your performance, like they told you? How does the layoff list get made anyway?

In our inaugural proxy conversation, we connect Miles and Elliot with a proxy HR professional to answer their layoff questions.

From the episode:

• You can listen to original layoff song Gold Star on Tidal and Spotify, and watch the ridiculous layoff interpretive pole dance music video on YouTube. Gold Star was written by Yowei Shaw and Kyle Pulley, produced and mixed by Kyle Pulley of Headroom Studios, The music video was directed, filmed, and edited by Alex Beebe, with art by typobrekkie, and production and costume support from Joanna Solotaroff.
• Thank you to Catie Maillard for being our proxy HR professional. You can find out more about Catie's work at somehowimanagehr.com, LinkedIn, and TikTok.

Episode credits:

Produced by Yowei Shaw

Edited by John DeLore

Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Research and reporting support by Kim Nederveen Pieterse

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.

Please note: This story contains brief mention of suicidal ideation. If you or someone you know may be considering suicide, contact the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by dialing 9-8-8, or the Crisis Text Line by texting HOME to 741741.

Elliot and Miles loved working at the same company, until the spectre of layoffs came to haunt them.

From the episode:

• Ofer Sharone's book The Stigma Trap

Episode credits:

Produced by Yowei Shaw

Edited by John DeLore

Mixed by Kyle Pulley

Research and reporting support by Kim Nederveen Pieterse.

Proxy is a completely independent production. To support the show and get exclusive bonus episodes and our newsletter, go to patreon.com/proxypodcast. 

Follow us on Instagram @proxypodcast and @yoweishaw.

Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! That stuff matters apparently.