We have a very special bonus episode for you all! Andrea is joined by Brittani Ard, the host and creator of the breakout show, You Probably Think This Story’s About You. Listeners get to hear how Andrea and Britt evolved their shows from what started off as limited series into what they are today. They touch on why they both decided to independently produce their shows, the art of storytelling, the business of podcasting, and how they deal with putting such personal details of their lives out into the world. Brittani talks about how You Probably Think This Story’s About You soared to the top of the charts in its first season and Andrea explains what brought her to founding her network, True Story Media.

***

Listen to Brittani’s show You Probably Think This Story’s About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/

View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/

Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI

To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our Ancestors Were Messy, is a show about the ancestors and all their drama. On each episode, host Nichole Hill and her guests unpack the ancestors’ historical schemes, feuds, and quests to examine how their relationships with one another shaped who we are today.

Before the 1960s nearly every major city in the nation had a newspaper written for, by, and about Black Americans. During their “Golden Era” between the 1930s-50s, there were over ten thousand newspapers with an estimated subscriber count of over 1 million.

The editors, reporters, and columnists for these papers included legends like Ida B. Wells, Frederick Douglass, Langston Hughes, W.E.B. DuBois, Mary McLeod Bethune, Zora Neale Hurston, and James Weldon Johnson. They reported on local, national, and international news from the Black perspective.

They also kept track of what everyone was up to in their segregated neighborhoods and spoiler alert: there was never a dull moment!

***

Listen to Our Ancestors Were Messy: https://thesecretadventuresofblackpeople.com/our-ancestors-were-messy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our Season 5 Mailbag Episode! This time we’re joined by more of our fabulous Nobody Should Believe Me team: head producer Myrriah Gossett, lead researcher Erin Ajayi, story editor Nichole Hill, and producer Greta Stromquist.

The team addresses questions about our coverage of Sophie’s faith, the role that race played in this season, behind-the-scenes of our touching interview with Chalice Howard, and the value of listener feedback. 

***

Support Myrriah’s other projects! https://www.myrriahgossett.com/

Listen to Nichole’s podcast, Our Ancestors Were Messy: https://thesecretadventuresofblackpeople.com/our-ancestors-were-messy

Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/

View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/

Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI

To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a very fun guest on NSBM Case Files this week: V Spehar aka Under the Desk News! In this engaging conversation, V and Andrea discuss the whirlwind that has been the beginning of 2025, the importance of ethical responsibility in media and journalism, and working through the gut-punch of grief. They discuss how their careers pivoted in unexpected, but amazing ways and how their personal experiences inform the way they move through their respective spaces. V shares their strategy for dealing with the current onslaught of news and highlights the importance of community.

***

Follow V on all the things: https://linktr.ee/vspehar

Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/

View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/

Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI

To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To officially wrap up season 5, we’ve brought in our friend, Detective Mike Weber, to discuss his thoughts on the police investigation into Sophie Hartman. He walks listeners through the extensive police reports and analyzes the evidence collected, including Sophie’s journal entries. Andrea and Detective Mike discuss the complexities surrounding child abuse cases, particularly the influence of family court decisions and the challenges faced in prosecuting these cases.

***

Links and Resources:

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Host Ashley Willcott is known as a tv anchor, a former judge, and a trial lawyer, and nearly all of the cases she's covered over the years intersect with one of the Seven Deadly Sins. 

Pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth. The opposite of the seven heavenly virtues.

These are THE REASONS why criminals commit crimes. They cannot resist their temptations. And it is a fascinating study to delve into the biggest and less known cases to figure out that why behind the crime; the motive.

This is a chance for us to figure out that WHY.

Join Ashley each and every week as she dives deep into cases you'll recognize instantly - and many you won't. She's joined by a roster of experts to break down each case.

Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episode 8 was originally our season finale, but a source we’d been speaking to for months bravely decided to go on the record. This is Andrea’s conversation with Chalice Howard, Sophie’s friend of nearly 10 years. 

With many similarities, being white single moms of adoptive black daughters and a shared faith, Chalice and Sophie found a kinship with each other despite living on opposite sides of the country. Chalice shares about her relationship with Sophie and the girls, the journey to learning about and accepting what Sophie’s been doing to C, and why she decided to contact Andrea. She describes how things came to a head with Sophie and gives a touching message to C and M.

***

Please remember that this conversation is from Chalice’s perspective and experience, so we are not able to fact check certain dates/times, nor her conversation with Sam. We have invited  Sophie and other members of the Hartman family onto the podcast to tell their  side of the story, but at the time of publishing have not received a response.. As always, the door remains open if Sophie or other members of the Hartman family would like to tell their version of events.

***

Links and Resources:

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our season finale, we see Sophie Hartman follow in the footsteps of the Kowalski family, Andrea’s sister Megan Carter and others, as she files a lawsuit against Seattle Children’s and the others who investigated her for Medical Child Abuse. Journalist Olivia LaVoice shares her thoughts about how this has all played out. 

We hear Sophie rebranding herself as a ‘falsely accused’ mother in a visit to her home congregation in Kalamazoo and examine the crossover between evangelical Christianity,  the parents' rights movement, and medical child abuse cases. 

We reveal what we know about where Sophie and the girls are today. 

***

Links and Resources:

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There and Gone: South Street covers the case of Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo. Richard and Danielle were last seen leaving a bar in Philadelphia only to never be seen again. Nearly two decades later, they have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence. But the FBI knows there was foul play. In There and Gone: South Street, the podcast team opens their own investigation on Richard and Danielle’s case with unprecedented access and cooperation from the FBI. Listeners will also hear from the family of the missing, close friends who were the last to see Richard and Danielle as well as local law enforcement, who continue to be haunted by this case nearly two decades later. This podcast will seek to find answers to this decades long cold case in an effort to bring justice to Richard and Danielle’s families.

***

Listen to There and Gone: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/there-and-gone-south-street/id1751733221

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We examine perhaps the most important piece of the complex puzzle of the Hartman case: what Sophie wrote about it in her journals. 

We’re joined by Dr. James Hamilton, an MBP expert with a PhD in clinical psychology, to walk us through some of Sophie’s most chilling journal entries collected in the case files. We also look at Sophie’s disturbing internet search history during the time of C’s alleged Central precocious puberty (CPP) diagnosis. 

After being separated from Sophie, M and C are placed with Sophie’s mom and sister. Detective Lee discusses the problems that arise when placing children with people that are most likely going to side with the perpetrator. In April of 2022, C and M are returned to Sophie and criminal charges are subsequently dropped. Andrea offers a key insight into how this might have happened by revealing a surprising member of Sophie’s legal team: her sister, Megan Carter. 

***

Links and Resources:

Dr. James Hamilton: https://www.munchausensupport.com/who-we-are/

Check out Olivia LaVoice’s podcast, The Bakersfield Three: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-the-bakersfield-three-128074552/

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sophie insists to police and others that the real problem isn’t that she’s abusing her daughter but that Seattle Children’s–a world class pediatric hospital–simply doesn’t understand her daughter’s rare condition: Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood.   

But according to police interviews, very few people in C’s orbit ever witnessed an episode, and if they did, they described symptoms that, alone, are not indicative of AHC. We also hear snippets of interviews stating that Sophie often presented AHC as a terminal illness, a claim that Dr. Zupanc refutes. 

Dr. Jill Glick, a child abuse pediatrician from the University of Chicago, returns to talk us through the process hospitals go through when evaluating medical child abuse cases. We also go through a few of the many inconsistencies in Sophie’s reports to C’s various doctors. Sophie claims that C could die at any moment from AHC: but does she even have it? 

***

Links and Resources:

Watch Human Timebombs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbjprd9v9Y

More about Dr. Mary Zupanc: https://www.childneurologysociety.org/awards/mary-l-zupanc-md/

More about Dr. Jill Glick: https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/find-a-physician/physician/jill-c-glick

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices