In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with positioning expert, April Dunford, author of the best-selling books, “Obviously Awesome” and “Sales Pitch.”

April had a successful career as a marketing and operations executive at companies including IBM and Nortel and it was in these roles that she developed her passion and approach to building effective positioning. Today she shares this passion and her knowledge as a consultant, speaker, and writer with companies around the world. 

In “Sales Pitch”, April lays out her hypothesis that marketers have been taught storytelling that doesn’t work for sales. She says 60% of deals that are started are never finished so it’s often indecisiveness and the status quo that sales teams must work to overcome. Even if you are not focused on sales, you will find a lot of value in this discussion.

Messaging and positioning are fundamental to growth and what we get to in this conversation is a deeper look into how businesses can differentiate themselves, help their audiences discover value, and ultimately break through the noise.

What makes this especially fun and useful is that April isn’t afraid to take contrary and non-obvious positions. As an example, she doesn’t like the concept of Product/Market Fit, and since we do, it made for some good back-and-forth!

So jump into this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast as we learn more about the art of effective positioning with April Dunford.

And thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast. Don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* April's story from executive to “Positioning is my jam!”(06:46)

* The problem with most sales pitches (09:44)

* Why it matters that 60% of started deals are never finished (22:04)

* Building and validating your sales Pitch (27:02)

* Positioning isn’t static; how to keep it fresh (52:44)

And much, much, more . . . 

If you want to know just how awesome AllTrails is, just ask Apple! Out of over 2 million apps in the App Store, AllTrails is one of just three finalists waiting to hear if they have been selected as Apple’s 2023 App of the Year. So, of course, we are delighted to welcome back to the podcast, Ron Schneidermann, AllTrails’s CEO. 

Ron first joined Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr for a chat back in early 2022. At the time, the company was riding Covid-driven enthusiasm for socially distanced activities and had recently raised $150 million in private equity funding. Now, almost two years later, we wanted to hear how it has been going for this hyper-growth app that helps people have fun exploring the outdoors.

After the pandemic, Ron and his team were determined to continue accelerating growth and that meant pushing in new directions while at the same time building on what was already working well. To keep moving forward, they made big bets on international expansion, invested in new areas like e-commerce, and kept the focus on improving mindset and execution. And the growth has continued. 

“Momentum begets momentum,” says Ron, and while the flywheel has accelerated and many of the bets have worked out, it hasn’t all been easy. In this conversation, Ron shares not just the wins, but the struggles and challenges that come hand-in-hand with managing rocketship growth. 

There is a lot to this episode. From valuable learnings when looking to expand across borders to a really important discussion on leadership and vulnerability. And you will find out what it means when Ron says at AllTrails “Authenticity is our currency.”AllTrails. 

So jump into this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast. And thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast. Don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Obsessing on growth, not just maintaining the status quo (08:43)

* “Much harder than we expected;” pushing for international growth (14:40)

* Modern growth structure. Is “head of growth” obsolete? (35:43)

* Growth as a role of influence, not ownership (36:36)

* People challenges and hypergrowth; avoiding toxcity (44:55)

* Authenticity as a personal core value (52:16)

And much, much, more . . .

According to Todd Olson, Pendo’s founder and CEO, ‘the market isn’t just receptive to AI, it’s demanding it!’  So in this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr dive deep with Todd, to better understand what this and other changes in the world of product, marketing, and growth will mean for businesses.

Pendo helps companies accelerate how they build and launch products that customers actually want by combining the power of analytics tools with messaging and customer experience features. For Product-Led Growth companies, this can be quite powerful as it helps teams intelligently use analytics to understand and drive specific valuable behaviors. 

In this spirited and fun conversation, we get a sense of Todd’s approach and philosophy, and how that has helped drive Pendo’s international growth over the past 10 years.  From the outset, the company was focused on improving customer experiences in software, but in the past few years, they have been able to accelerate that mission by investing in machine learning.

Todd says it’s really important to understand that the “mindset drives the tech,” not the other way around, and he’s built a culture to support that. Just as with our last podcast episode with the VP of EMEA from Moloco, Todd is laser-focused on building enthusiasm around outcomes from technology, not on the technology itself.

He says teams have a tendency to celebrate when they ship software, but really the celebration should start when the desired outcome is achieved. It’s this kind of candid and thoughtful growt-minded thinking that made for a great discussion and undoubtedly has been foundational to Pendo’s success thus far.

So jump in! And thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast. Don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Building Pendo with a mission to improve experiences in software (06:10)

* Speed of innovation is important, but we have to balance change (13:22)

* What AI means for businesses and how to embrace it (18:14)

* Marketing and product’s relationship to data has changed at a different pace (22:00)

* In the future, every PM is thinking about growth (37:31)

* Smarter and more efficient: the impact of a down economy (47:58)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat AI and growth with Ben Jeger, Moloco’s Vice President of EMEA. Moloco’s machine learning-based advertising solutions help marketers take advantage of advertising opportunities outside of the “walled gardens” of Google, Meta, and Amazon.

In the past year, AI has taken on a life of its own for good reason, but we wanted to dig beneath the hype cycle to understand how this technology will really impact the world of growth. With Ben, we got just that.

Moloco hasn’t changed its messaging to capitalize on the AI whirlwind, even though it’s fair to say they are an AI company.  They have simply continued their relentless focus on delivering customer outcomes.  In performance marketing, that is the only thing that matters, and as Ben says, “Fancy words don’t get us there.”

So in this discussion, we learn how these tools level the playing field for marketers and why they are so valuable for augmenting human capabilities. In addition, we get a picture of why Moloco has grown 5x in the past two years to a $2+ billion valuation, and how Ben is approaching his task of expanding the business throughout Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Moloco’s 10-year, overnight success story (07:50)

* Defining AI and Machine Learning (10:58)

* In performance marketing, sustainability is about long-term outcomes (14:41)

* “It’s not a lie to say we are an AI company,” but what matters is outcomes (17:51)

* Creating value outside of the “walled gardens” (27:43)

* Growing Moloco beyond gaming (33:52)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Jonas Klink, Thrive Market’s Vice President of Product Management & Design. Thrive Market is a subscription-based online grocery delivery service that aims to make healthy living easy and affordable for everyone.  

And that is a perfect fit for Jonas, who has over 15 years of experience in eCommerce working at companies like eBay, Walmart, and WeightWatchers. As he thought about the next chapter in his career, Jonas wanted to find a mission-driven company where he could make a difference, and Thrive is proving to be the right place for him to have that impact.

So in this conversation, we dig deep into Jonas’ growth approach and his passion for building organizational learning velocity. Scientific rigor is at the heart of his process, but speed is key. He explains that to keep growth flowing, tests must focus on answering hypotheses, but they cannot get bogged down by everything else needed for broad distribution. 

If you have ever struggled to manage design in a high-tempo testing environment you will particularly enjoy this conversation. Jonas and his team have built a culture where UX and product are deeply connected so that design can flow into experimentation without encumbering it.

And that is just the beginning. From his use of the RICE prioritization framework to building alignment around a North Star Metric, Jonas is building the culture of experimentation most of us strive for as we look to accelerate growth.

So join us as we dive in with Jonas Klink and find out what’s driving breakout growth success at Thrive Market. 

We discussed:

* Sustainability, healthy living, and 18 million orders: (05:11)

* Bringing experience from Walmart, eBay, and Jet.com to Thrive Market  : (10:08)

* Organizing for rapid experimentation and great design: (14:54)

* Building a growth language where learnings replace failures: (30:58)

* The importance of lightweight process for teams: (39:11)

And much, much, more . . . 

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Arjun Mahadevan, Co-Founder and CEO of doola, a launchpad for your first or next business. Most founders want to spend their time finding Product/Market Fit, but unfortunately, the work of just running a business itself can often get in the way. 

Doola looks to help founders remove these distractions by offering a “business-in-a-box” solution.  The company helps you form your LLC, then manage everything from bookkeeping and banking, to taxes and compliance. 

Other companies, like LegalZoom, offer business formation services, and certainly, lawyers and accountants can help with these processes too. But doola’s approach is about customer success and building a community where founders can find the support they need.  Arjun says it’s both “high tech and high touch”.

Arjun says doola has helped founders in 175 countries form their LLCs in the US, and his team is all about finding the highest-leverage opportunities that will result in a great product suite and community for the business owners they serve.

So, if you are looking for some great inspiration and insights into how to optimize for sustainable growth, check out this episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast with Arjun Mahadevan, Co-Founder and CEO of doola.

We discussed:

* Business-in-a-Box; the doola backstory: (06:04)

* Meeting the needs of Covid-driven eCommerce acceleration: (15:45)

* Building for retention beyond LLC formation: (25:52)

* Just-in-time user acquisition: (30:38)

* White labeling doula via API: (34:55)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr chat with Brendan Candon, Co-Founder and CEO of SidelineSwap, an online marketplace for sporting goods.

“Recommerce” is becoming increasingly popular. Reusing, reselling, and recycling used items creates value for buyers and sellers, and the process of trading in and trading up can actually be kind of fun. Brendan and his team have leaned into this by making it easy for athletes, parents, and coaches to find new homes for gear that might otherwise languish in their closets or end up in landfills.

Recently Brendan and his co-founders raised money through DSG Ventures (Dick’s Sporting Goods’ venture fund), and we learn how this strategic partnership has unlocked a unique growth channel. By bringing used gear to Sideline Swap Trade-in events, held at Dick’s Sporting Goods stores across the US, consumers can get paid instantly with gift cards, which they can then use to buy new gear in the store.

Not only does this build inventory for the online marketplace, but it also introduces new audiences to the platform. It’s this kind of thinking that has helped SidelineSwap compete and grow in a world dominated by large incumbents like Craigslist and eBay.

Brendan tells the story from the very beginning when the idea was born after he bought used lacrosse gear from a friend. He describes the constant work to learn and grow, and the grind and discipline it has taken to build the business into a top-100 marketplace according to Andreessen Horowitz. 

So jump into this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast and learn about the amazing growth journey of SidelineSwap. 

We discussed:

* The SidelineSwap backstory: from personal pain point to top-100 marketplace (08:00)

* Focusing on one sport first to win the hard side (11:38)

* Trade-in events, a unique channel to power growth (27:03)

* New opportunities and a win-win with DSG Ventures’ investment (35:04)

*Re-commerce and the power of “being where the customers are” (45:53)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr are joined by Hugo Pereira as he describes the experience of bringing the lessons of leading a hyper-growth rocketship into his new role as a startup founder. 

When Hugo first appeared on the podcast in 2020 he was Chief Growth Officer of EVBox, a manufacturer of electric vehicle charging stations. The market was exploding, and Hugo had discovered that the more he and his team leaned into customer advocacy as a mechanism for leading their industry, the more success they could drive.

Listen to the original interview here: apple.co/3xmXoT1

After seven years, Hugo decided it was time for a change. While taking a sabbatical with his family, the idea for Ritmoo, a team communications and engagement platform, was born. And today, Hugo is on his way and applying the lessons from his EVBox days to building something unique and valuable.

So, in this conversation, we look to understand how Hugo approaches his search for product/market fit, and how his experience informs his thinking and decision-making.  We also ask how his passion for customer advocacy can serve him in this next chapter of his career. 

We even discuss how some of his EVBox experiences may have to be unlearned or rethought as he faces new challenges in a very different startup environment.

Hugo’s experience and track record are powerful tools to guide his next chapter, but the reality is that there are no guarantees for new businesses. So this is an honest conversation about taking a big shot but giving yourself the best odds using what you have learned as your compass.

We discussed:

* From Hypergrowth to starting anew: Hugo’s Journey (05:01)

* Bringing learnings from growth stages into a startup (10:51)

* Putting the focus on customers, not competition (12:21)

* Too many choices and other founder challenges (19:48)

* Principles for building a new tool for businesses (38:33)

And much, much, more . . . 

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by SAP, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr catch up with Henry Schuck, CEO & Founder of ZoomInfo. We first spoke with Henry after his company’s 2020 IPO. So in this conversation, we wanted to see what has changed for him and his team over the last few years.

What we found is a much larger company, expanding into new areas, and taking on increasingly greater challenges. And for Henry, that has meant changes in how he leads his now 4000+ person team (it was about 1100 when we first spoke). But, the most important takeaways from this discussion may not be in what has changed, but rather in what has stayed the same.

As Henry recounts the stories of how his company took on the challenge of adding a talent acquisition service, or how his go-to-market insights team helped surface opportunities for growth, what is clear is that the same principled approach that brought ZoomInfo to its IPO continues today.  That approach is very much based on data, experimentation, and an unstoppable desire to inspire curiosity across the organization.

Even though ZoomInfo is now a very large business, this is a conversation for businesses of all sizes and types. The importance of focus, the value of surfacing insights through data, and planning strategy in an organized way are all topics we discuss that apply to startups and scale-ups alike.

Before you jump in, learn more about SAP's cloud solutions for mid-size enterprises at sap.com/sme. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched-together solutions to manage business finances, operations, HR, suppliers, and customer relationships, leverage the flexibility of SAP's cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success.

Achieve breakout growth success now with SAP at bit.ly/3UUPDxJ

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* ZoomInfo today: Expansion and Growth post-IPO (08:15)

* Changing responsibilities as the head of a public company (12:56)

* The importance of communications as companies scale (15:18)

* How the best-run companies plan strategy (16:29)

* “Docusigns per day” as an aligning KPI (17:55)

* Making a lot of big bets and maintaining focus (37:32)

* Leveraging a valuable data asset (38:14)

And much, much, more . . .

In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, brought to you by SAP, Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr speak with GS Jha, who serves as both Global Chief Information Officer and Chief Information Security Officer at Accuray, a manufacturer of radiotherapy technologies.

When you hear GS’s story it’s evident where his passion for life sciences comes from. As a child growing up in India, GS saw firsthand the impacts of poor access to medicine on his community. 

And while he thought that his contributions to world health might be as a doctor, ultimately his path led to a place where infrastructure and business converged. That intersection is a key reason why GS feels he can be a catalyst for growth at Accuray in his role as CIO.

From GS’s perspective, success depends on aligning the systems he manages with the goals of both the company and the individuals who drive it forward. And what connects these things together is creating value for customers. 

So we think you will enjoy this discussion as you hear why even as CIO, GS sees engaging with oncologists directly as an important part of his role, and why everything from his hiring approach to his considerations for systems and infrastructure is informed by a larger mission to save lives. 

Before you jump in, learn more about SAP's cloud solutions for mid-size enterprises at sap.com/sme. If you have ambitious goals, SAP is the technology partner you need to scale and drive innovation. Instead of relying on stitched-together solutions to manage business finances, operations, HR, suppliers, and customer relationships, leverage the flexibility of SAP's cloud-based ERP solution to gain the insights that will help drive your breakout growth success.

Achieve breakout growth success now with SAP at bit.ly/3UUPDxJ

Thanks for listening to the Breakout Growth Podcast, and don’t forget, to watch us and subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* On a mission to deliver lifesaving technologies (04:21)

* CIO vs. CTO, what are the differences (07:33)

* How IT functions to unlock a business’ potential (11:31)

* The challenges and importance of driving alignment (27:19)

* Hiring technology people to drive growth (33:11)

* Learning from customers, directly (33:56)

And much, much, more . . .

Product-Led Growth is all the rage, but it wasn’t working

Today, things are looking good for Chameleon and its CEO, Pulkit Agrawal. Since we recorded this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast with him, Chameleon announced a successful Series A. But in 2015 the company was heading towards the startup scrap heap.

That’s where co-hosts Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr pick up this conversation. Pulkit and his co-founders had built a product that offered simple tools to personalize customer experiences with product tours and tooltips. They were following the Product-Led playbook that was driving success for other startups in similar categories all around them. 

The problem was they were running out of money. The business was not taking off even with an easy-to-use self-serve interface and low prices. 

Pivoting to a Sales-Led Go-to-Market Strategy 

If you listened to our previous conversation with the CEO of Fireflies, Krish Ramanelli, you will hear a story where PLG was exactly the right strategy. So why wasn’t it right for Pulkit and his team? And how did he figure it out?

Jump in and hear how focusing on the must-have experience helped Pulkit and his team regroup and reframe the business, why he doesn’t see the world as either Sales-Led or Product-Led and how the tough early journey informed his team’s growth approach.  

The Breakout Growth Podcast is also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K_CY4-IrZ_auEIs0j97zA/featured

We discussed:

* Building a business to solve a personal pain point (03:59)

* Realizing the team had over-indexed on a self-serve model (06:08)

* Learning that intuition isn’t fact (12:48)

* Sales-Led & Product-Led; different learnings, different value (18:30)

* Thinking through customer motivations to drive growth (24:55)

* Building the culture to support Sales-Led growth (43:29)

And much, much, more . . .