As one moves along through this text, one begins to understand that St. John Climacus is not only addressing elders but all those who have the care of souls. Fundamentally this is every Christian!There is no radical individualism in our faith, nor do we see ourselves disconnected from the sins of others and the burdens they bear. Love, compels us to be attentive to the other; not in a condescending fashion, but attending to them with the tenderness and compassion that we have received from Christ. Our Lord is the archetype for us and the consolation that we receive from his hand we are to offer to others freely.

The fundamental virtues of an elder are humility and obedience; that is, truthful living and the capacity to listen. How can one serve others when there is any focus on the self or when they are still in the grip of the passions? There is  nothing so unseemly as an angry elder - one who looks at others with a harsh eye or is always quick to investigate trifling sins. The elder must be driven by love that makes him ever vigilant and watchful of those things that can be obstacles to the spiritual development of those in his care. He cannot be lax in fulfilling this responsibility or timid and cowardly in offering correction. He must be willing to offer counsel even when there is no thirst for understanding. 

One begins to understand that such a responsibility is carried out with fear and trembling. The care of souls carries within it the Cross; it is crucified love that guides the elder and gives light to his path.  He is never a passive observer, but one who like Christ looks out and acknowledges the crowds as being sheep without a shepherd; in fact, as sheep already mauled by the wolves and in desperate need of healing. Thus, the capacity to care for others in this fashion is not something that can be set aside; nor can the abilities that God has given to an elder be buried in the ground with drawing down His wrath.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:09:34 Una: Does Father send out handouts in email?

00:10:08 Una: Could I get one at [email protected]?

00:10:25 Adam Paige: https://mcusercontent.com/c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df/files/22eb6d8c-a2f9-1ed8-1270-b5bcd86c22f6/To_the_Shepherd.01.pdf

00:10:31 Una: Thank you

00:10:43 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍

00:12:22 Una: Yes for me on New Year DAy

00:12:26 Sam: Greetings from Hot 🔥 Australia Fr

00:12:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Greetings from Hot ..." with 🇦🇺

00:18:01 paul g.: Amen

00:21:55 Bob Cihak, AZ: Amen, Amen!

00:33:54 Mary Clare Wax: Fr. it is so refreshing listening to you. We love your contemplative spirit and your love for the desert father teachings. Thank you. We appreciate your present sharing on the priesthood. So true.

00:34:22 susan: Amen

00:36:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Fr. it is so refresh..." with 👍

00:37:22 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Fr. it is so refresh..." with 👍

00:38:31 Andres Oropeza: Is it always pride when you have trouble trusting your spiritual Father because of his manner of life or that of his monks? I feel like I’m judging him/them but I also have serious misgivings. Could it be just a test of obedience where the Lord wants me to obey even with the misgivings, to have faith before understanding ?

00:41:56 Bob Cihak, AZ: As the fathers and you say, the wisdom required to be a spiritual leader is learned from and with experience, not just book learning, which usually required a lot of time.

00:43:08 MOME hermits: I (sr charista maria) believe Mary's special presence in our times helps to make up for what is lacking in the priesthood today, when we have a special relationship with her.

00:49:32 David: The orthodox later republished that as Unseen Warfare by Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain and Theophan the Recluse

00:49:47 Kate : Father, could you address what to do when one experiences a spiritual father who is not mentally healthy and whose guidance not sound?  In this case, I would think that one must pay attention to their misgivings.  We lived through this and sadly witnessed much damage done to souls.

00:50:24 Maureen Cunningham: Christ was betrayed

01:14:07 Victor - WV: Thanks to all, to Father as well. Merry Christmas! 🎄 🙏🏼

01:14:26 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 👍

01:14:47 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 👍

01:16:02 Laura: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 🎄

01:16:17 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks to all, to Fa..." with 🎄

01:20:00 Andres Oropeza: I think it was in this book where it describes the spiritual father being like Moses stretching his arms out so his child can pass through the sea unharmed. Beautiful image 
Off topic, but does it make a bad confession if you feel like you should’ve confessed to your spiritual father that you judged him specifically (vs just judging people) but didn’t because of anxiety ?

01:23:26 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You

01:23:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂Happy Christmas everyone🎄

01:23:29 David: Thank you Father and God Bless you and your mother! Merry Christmas! As we celebrate his birth may he be reborn anew in our hearts.

01:24:17 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!

01:24:27 Rachel: Thank you father

01:24:28 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father.

01:24:36 liz sabath: Thank you Father!!

01:24:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: BleSSED Christmas~

Once again, we find ourselves in the midst of the laboratory of the desert and watching the Fathers’ struggle with the passions, in particular the passion of fornication or lust. The beauty in this, of course, is that we are placed in the privileged position of seeing their struggle from the inside; dealing with both the passion and also learning how to engage in the ascetic life in a measured fashion.

It is made clear that we are to struggle with our whole being and to be fully engaged in the battle. On a physical level, this means restraining our appetites. We hear that the monks understood that they must not give themselves over to satiation in regard to bodily appetites. They must humble the mind and body in order that they might cling more to God in their prayer and trust in his grace. This meant, of course, the experience of privation; but it also opened them up to the richness of the interior life and the depth of prayer. Therefore, it was not just an act of endurance but also an expression of hope in God and his promises. More importantly we might say it is an expression of love. We are willing to make great sacrifices for the things that we hold to be precious. When we love God and the things of God, when we love virtue and prayer, we will do all in our power to attain it and maintain it.

With hypothesis 26, we begin to see the fruit of their long experience in the ascetic life. They could see that they often emphasized the wrong thing in the spiritual battle or became unmeasured in their disciplines to the point of losing sight of God. One can become so fixated on overcoming a particular passion or fighting with the thoughts of the demons, that they fall into pride by failing to emphasize the one thing alone that can overcome the demons, as well as draw the natural into the supernatural; that is, the grace of God. To say that Christianity is an ascetical religion is not to say that the discipline of such a life and the exercise of our faith is an end in itself. The end of our striving is love and and theosis – intimacy, union, with the triune God.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:08:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12

00:13:00 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12

00:21:05 Adam Paige: “A clear rule for self-control handed down by the Fathers is this: stop eating while still hungry and do not continue until you are satisfied.” - St John Cassian, On the Eight Vices

00:21:43 paul g.: Reacted to "“A clear rule for se…" with ✔️

00:21:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thanks, Adam.

00:21:50 paul g.: Reacted to "P. 184, # 12" with ✔️

00:21:52 Phil: Modern medicine also says humans need 12 serving of carbs a day and half as much dairy. Bless their heart, they are trying! ... "Lord forgive them, for they know not what they do!"

00:23:30 Myles Davidson: Because people need differing amounts of sleep or food, what would you say is the thing we should be looking out for, to know we are getting the right amounts of both. Is it a clarity of mind and attention in prayer? Anything else?

00:26:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks, Adam." with 👍

00:28:49 Andres Oropeza: Is it always a bad thing to derive comfort from food? I mean a hot meal is preferable to a cold one during winter especially. Or a hot drink really sets you at ease after being outside in the cold. Should we shun the comfort and just eat cold meals and drink cold drinks (or hot if the drink isn’t good hot). Or is the comfort only an issue when it becomes the point of eating?

00:30:48 Myles Davidson: There have been plenty of studies done on rats that reducing caloric intake extends life.

00:31:21 Adam Paige: “Stand at the brink of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it anymore, draw back a little, and have a cup of tea.” - Saint Sophrony Sakharov

00:36:03 Carol Roper: it seems like the issue is longing. to what do we direct our longing. Advent strikes me as a season of longing.

00:40:16 Myles Davidson: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer

00:40:37 Adam Paige: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer Father Archimandrite Ilie Cleopa

00:40:42 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "@Phil What was the n..." with 🙏

00:44:04 Liz D: Reacted to "it seems like the ..." with ❤️

00:48:09 Phil: Yea, Ramana died in middle age, but his extreme fasting (starting in his teenage years) does seem to have shortened his life.

00:49:12 Phil: Replying to "@Phil What was the n..." 

 Yes, I believe that is him!

00:49:38 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, I believe that ..." with 👍

00:50:26 Phil: Yes, there are at least a half dozen videos on YouTube of Cleopa himself giving spiritual advice.

00:50:58 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, there are at le..." with 👍

01:03:20 Adam Paige: The Struggle with God - Paul Evdokimov (PDF) https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf

01:03:24 Phil: "The mystics are a law unto themselves." Fr. Anthony De Mello.

01:03:56 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "The Struggle with Go..." with 👍

01:06:07 Adam Paige: “It behooves us as well to destroy the sinners in our land-namely, our fleshly feelings-on the morning of their birth, as they emerge, and, while they are still young, to dash the children of Babylon against the rock. Unless they are killed at a very tender age they will, with our acquiescence, rise up to our harm as stronger adults, and they will certainly not be overcome without great pain and effort.” St John Cassian, The Institutes (6th Book: The Spirit of Fornication)

01:16:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father

01:17:15 Phil: LOL, that's great! Thank you, Father.

01:18:05 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!

01:18:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂

01:18:13 Aric B: Thank you Father!

Sometimes during a group it is as if a light comes on that illuminates some aspect of life in a magnificent fashion and that speaks to each person in the group whatever their background or station in life. This was true in particular this evening as we continued to discuss St. John’s writing “To the Shepherd” on the responsibilities of a spiritual elder. As we made our way through the text, it became clear that St. John’s teaching about the care of souls applies to all of those who are responsible for the formation of others; not only priests or religious, but also parents, teachers, friends, etc. 

Not one of us is free from the charge of the salvation of others; aiding them through our prayers, taking opportune moments to clarify their understanding of the faith, being living witnesses of the gospel and the love of the cross. All of us have the responsibility of seeking purity of heart and freedom from the passions in order that we might be able to discern with clarity and humility the needs of those around us. Lacking this, St. John tells us, we undermine our capacity to be well disposed and compassionate to each individual for whom we are responsible or who enters our life. How is it that we can serve others if we cannot discern good from evil and everything in between?

In fact, St. John tells us it is a great disgrace for a superior to pray for or hold forward spiritual gifts to others that he himself is not acquired. How is it that he can faithfully guide others to God and to become partakers of the glory of God if he has no understanding of this within his own heart. Experience is the truest teacher and if the superior lacks that experience, he may only bring harm to others.

Those who are spiritual elders, fathers, or mothers, must not be tempted to set aside this role in order to enjoy worldly friendship with those in their charge. It can be a natural thing to want companionship and to some extent this can exist. However, if a familiarity develops between the superior and others, he may lose the capacity to guide and feel constrained to do the bidding of others; never to contradict them, refuse them, or correct them.

The elder must be pure of heart and able to understand the interior life and also the realities that sanctify us within the life of the church. The elder must be able to create a culture that forms a mind and heart directed toward God, the love of neighbor and the love of virtue. He must be able to discern the emotional capacity and maturity of others, so as not to push too hard and risk breaking their spirit or neglect giving counsel or correction of those who are quick witted and naturally gifted.

Such purity of heart alone allows the elder to perceive supernatural realities and to understand the struggles that individuals have with multiple demons. The elder must be able to cure passions thought by others to be incurable. In this sense, he must have truly put on the mind of Christ and be the most humble and obedient member of the community.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:14:02 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 251, # 14   00:19:16 carol_000: Is much known about the repentance of Joseph's brothers or God chastising them for their treatment of Joseph   00:26:27 David: I think this is a big problem also in families. My oldest son felt I was often to hard on him. Now that he is 27 he has mentioned several times that I was the only one that loved him and was always there. It is really hard but being a father is different than being a friend only there to enjoy the good times and not try to guide someone to what has value.   00:28:48 Art: Reacted to "I think this is a bi..." with 👍   00:28:52 Catherine Eisenbrandt: Father when you are entrusted to forming children it is easy to understand friendship with angels and saints is beneficial for them but how can you explain that to a child who is suffering from isolation   00:29:17 David: Well from 15-22 we are idiots but we get smarter and as time goes on even seen as wise. ha ha   00:35:31 Anthony: The cultivation of religious imagination must be cultivated so as to distinguish this "friendship" from "imaginary friend" or a dialogue in the mind with oneself.   00:36:38 Carol Roper: My 10 year old loves those books   00:37:27 Carol Roper: They’re like graphic novels   00:37:34 David: One nice tradtion with small t is in Spain where you celebrate "Tu Santo" or your saints day with the same passion as a birthday. Cake, read the life etc. I did this with my kids when they were younger and it makes an impact later.   00:38:36 David: The saints let the light of God enter into our life and saints through the windows.   00:39:15 Una: Who is this author?   00:39:54 Myles Davidson: Replying to "Who is this author?"   https://creativeorthodox.com/   00:40:10 Una: Thank you   00:41:43 Art: https://www.themerrybeggars.com/shows/the-saints  The Saints: Adventures of Faith and Courage A daily podcast bringing the Saints to life with award-winning actors, writers, and sound designers. Thrilling and inspiring stories to ignite your family's faith. Intended for children but I really enjoy them too.  My sons really enjoyed the episode on Moses the Black.   00:42:10 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "https://www.themerry..." with 👍   00:42:11 Anna Lalonde: That's what we do!   00:43:27 David: This is nice at bed time for kids or better to read with your own voice. LibriVox   00:43:44 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "https://www.themerry..." with 👍🏼   00:44:07 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "This is nice at bed ..." with 👍🏼   00:45:07 carol_000: Thank you All for the Links   00:45:52 Art: Reacted to "This is nice at bed ..." with 👍🏼   00:46:07 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to This is nice at bed ... with "👍🏼"   00:46:20 Anna Lalonde: Thank you David!   00:49:43 Anthony: Mass media kills imagination and familyblife   00:50:28 David: The way of the Pilgrim really impacted me and how this moves the orthodox both to the divine liturgy and the Philokalhia. Where in the west se send people to St. Thomas before they can really understand it. I like the hospital of the sick how do I deal with all the 8 evil thoughts not intellectual gymnastics and memorizing proofs. As least I have always struggled with discernment I don't get a lot of that from intellect but focusing on being close to God. When I taught a mentor said: don't teach them to memorize you only need to teach "the love of learning" and learning will follow. I think the same is true for faith- learn to love God the other things fall into place.   00:53:37 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   Way of the Pilgrim had a big impact on me too   00:53:48 Carol Roper: Reacted to "https://www.themerry…" with 👍   00:53:58 Carol Roper: Reacted to "This is nice at bed …" with 👍🏼   00:54:03 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   👍 I thought it was just me. Thanks   00:54:16 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "👍 I thought it was ..." with 👍   00:54:55 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   @David Inspired me to pray the Jesus prayer to a much greater degree   00:55:45 Anna Lalonde: Yes, love of learning is what we do. My children are into all kinds of things now because they love learning.   00:55:54 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   Me too I always carry a prayer rope with me now   00:56:15 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Me too I always carr..." with 👍   00:56:44 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   Instead of wasting time I can dedicate that time to God. Waiting at a Dr. office with my Dad, stuck in traffic   00:56:59 Myles Davidson: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   @David Yes, me too   00:57:29 David: Replying to "The way of the Pilgr..."   Thanks ! Nice to know there are at least two of us. ha ha   00:57:40 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Thanks ! Nice to kno..." with 🙏   00:59:17 Anthony: The Holy Trinity is subliminal. Most real & underlying reality. More real and more clear than "real life."   01:01:24 David: Replying to "Thank you David!"   My pleasure Anna I hope you find it helpful. I really struggled raising my kids alone with time   01:02:01 Vanessa: Reacted to "I think this is a bi..." with ❤️   01:04:13 Maureen Cunningham: How long was the early church . Hour or many hours   01:16:06 susan: physics break through   all atoms interacting/from beginning to end throughout all time/ action impacts all the atoms one way or another  gave me such a deeper understanding of Jesus liturgy Eucharist the actions of the Mass present to all time and how Jesus 2000 years ago can actually be Here in the Mass now  made liturgy real to me. Helps me to see Jesus real with me now (Jesus prayer)   01:16:11 Aric B: Regarding the subject of paragraph #17. I have been reading a book that is about us living with Christs mysteries as also our mysteries to be experienced throughout liturgy and the liturgical year.   01:19:11 David: It is not what we get out of the mass in entertainment but what we bring to the table of the Lord. I see this as a big difference and evangelical friends are often dumbstruck when I mention this. The book "The supper of the Lamb" has really helped many come home in my experience.   01:22:06 Victor - WV: Thank you, Father, & all.   01:22:20 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father &  everyone   01:22:33 Alexandra: Thank you Father. I'll pray for you   01:23:11 Cindy Moran: Great session tonight! Thank you, Father.   01:23:13 Jeff O.: Thank you Father! Great to be with you all.   01:23:15 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊   01:23:18 Aric B: Thank you Father!   01:23:22 David: Thank you father and may God bless you and your mother!   01:23:35 carol_000: Thank you Father   01:23:42 Alexandra: Thank you everyone   01:24:41 David: God does not speak through one of us but all of us is what my Grandmother always said. Thank you Father for being our guide

 

We were taken very deep this evening; not only into our understanding of the passion of lust or fornication, but also deep into the human mind and heart and how they function. The anthropology of the Desert Fathers was astute and profound. Despite residing in the desert, far removed from converse with both men and women, they knew the nature of the human person very well. We are sexual beings; that is, our sexuality is part of the experience of ourselves within the reality of this world and in our relationships with others. We relate to others in and through our sexuality; not consciously but simply as part of the reality the shapes are perceptions. This in turn shapes are imagination and understanding - again in ways that we often do not perceive. 

The Fathers teach us to keep this in mind in regard to the spiritual struggles that we have surrounding our appetites, in particular sensuality. These natural human appetites are very powerful and shapes us in both conscious and unconscious ways. 

Furthermore, these realities are not unknown to the demons. They are relentless and crafty in how they try to divert the mind and the heart away from God. We were given a couple of interesting stories this evening about young boys who came to the monastery as children having never experienced or seen a woman. Yet, in both accounts, they find themselves either overwhelmed by the thoughts associated with this particular passion or having such thoughts manifest themselves in their dreams. 

How is this possible one might wonder? Well at least it tells us why we must be vigilant and watch all of the movements of our minds and our hearts and what we expose ourselves to on a day-to-day basis. But it also tells us that the influence can be far more subtle than we imagine, and that we can be moved simply by the natural desire itself or by demonic provocation. The demons through the words and actions of others, or through our subtle observations of the world around us, can influence the turn of our minds to the things that take hold of the are imagination. Of course, this can be completely benign. Yet it will be used against us in the spiritual battle. Therefore, if we wonder why the Fathers emphasize the necessity of such intense vigilance and the humbling of the mind and the body through prayer and fasting, we begin to see that it is because they had no superficial understanding of the human person. They understood this realities better than we do in our own day; the mystery of the human person, the forces at work within us, the contradictions that we bear within our own minds and how we can even be drawn to things that are clearly destructive. Therefore, in an unvarnished fashion, they make it clear to us that we must create a new habit of mind, a habit of virtue. Our hearts must become attached to the Lord and the Lord alone if we desire to know the holiness and freedom that he makes possible for us. What they speak of is beautiful beyond measure - a life caught up in the eternal love of Christ. Will we seek it out for ourselves?

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Text of chat during the group:   00:01:40 Phil: Fr. who is the cloacked figure in the icon over your left shoulder?   00:02:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 183, # 9   00:03:39 Bob Cihak, AZ: “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/635 .   00:05:03 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 183, # 9   00:17:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: “The Ascetical Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian, revised 2nd Edition” was published in 2011   00:19:13 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“The Ascetical Homil..." with 👍   00:28:32 Anthony: It could also be that these particular women were clandestinely visiting, and the child saw them in drowsiness.    00:37:07 Lisa: Does a person need a spiritual director (or other such person) to help with the healing of the imagination and memories?  Or does the person simply ask the Lord in prayer?   00:51:27 Anthony: Well, even Heaven is not the final goal. It's a partway point to the more perfect cohabitation and collaboration with God and men. Like this, a monastic life isn't the resting place either.   01:05:35 Vanessa: Thank you, Father.   01:05:39 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you  Father   01:06:28 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father

 

We continued our reading and discussion of the treatment and cures that the spiritual father must understand for every malady that afflicts a person in the spiritual life. He must understand not only how to apply them but also the manner they are applied to each individual person with their unique needs. No person is the same and in the spiritual battle the elder must understand the subtle manifestations of spiritual illness and the manner in which various cures might be applied.

One of the most striking aspects of tonight’s discussion was on the capacity of the elder to be free from and endure nausea and to be able to untiringly strive to dispel the stench of vomit. Of course, St. John is speaking about sin itself and the willingness of the elder to enter into the darkness in which the other person finds himself; to descend into their hell and to endure the stench of sin itself. The capacity to do this comes through engaging in the spiritual battle throughout the course of one’s life and attending in obedience to the counsel of one’s own spiritual father. The lack of nausea and the ability to endure the stench of the vomit of sin comes from having long been immersed in it through one’s own struggles. Compassion is born in a powerful way through the experience of common trials. 

Beyond this, St. John tells that the shepherd must experience blessed dispassion. In other words, he must be free of the passions that would blind him and his ability to discern the particular needs of those in his care. This discernment allows the elder to illuminate the path that leads to repentance and so gives him the capacity to “resurrect every dead soul”.

This is the identity that every Christian soul should seek to embrace. While it’s true that not everyone is called to be a spiritual elder, every Christian by virtue of their baptism is called to the holiness described here and given the responsibility for the care of souls in their midst. We are responsible for the salvation and goodwill of those around us as much as we are responsible for our own.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:04:47 Anna Lalonde: Well my kids learned to walk up our hallway wall today so you up for that Father? 😄   00:08:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 250, # 12 halfway down "An ointment...."   00:10:11 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0   00:10:52 Lori Hatala: link for To the Shephard pdf   00:11:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 250, # 12 halfway down "An ointment...."   00:25:47 Anna Lalonde: Anyone have a link for buying this version?   00:27:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: The current book is The Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus at https://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/products_id/569 .   00:41:33 Anna Lalonde: Replying to "The current book is ..."     Thank you! Ordered   00:43:28 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "The current book is ..."   Good! It's on the expensive side, but is well worth it; the quality of the book exceeds its price.   00:45:11 Anna Lalonde: In Roman Catholic there are Spiritual Director certificates. But I love using Desert Fathers for this aspect with my clients.   00:51:23 Anna Lalonde: I prefer Catholic Coaching versus Therapy because it's an integrative of the soul as the trauma is affecting the soul.   00:55:52 Myles Davidson: Jung had very high praise for the Catholic Mass and felt that Catholicism was the closest thing to psychotherapy Interestingly enough   00:58:20 David: There is a nice podcast by Fr. Joshua Macoul called "Healing the Unresolved" but I don't know what school he ascribes to but does mention the desert fathers sometimes.   01:01:35 David: In the presence of nothing, everything is revealed. Can't remember which desert father wrote this but it stuck in my head.   01:02:40 Kate : What about the role of the grace of priesthood in shepherding of souls?  I know there are some Catholic spiritual direction training programs that train laity to be spiritual directors.  But what about the grace of priesthood in leading souls?  Isn’t this something that cannot be “trained” so to speak?   01:07:05 Anna Lalonde: I agree Father! As a certified Catholic Coach and a Certified Catholic Spiritual Director. My living the ascetic life and domestic monastics while studying desert fathers is very great so I can serve souls.   01:07:08 David: Not a criticism but it seems with all the honey, coffee, handicrafts and items monasteries produce it might be better to offer spiritual direction and donations through patreon or something?  My old parish priest mentioned he did not have capacity to offer spiritual direction to all the young people we had in catechism.  There seems to be a great lack of this for most parishes.   01:07:49 Anna Lalonde: Agree David!   01:17:26 Phil: Thank you, Father and Victor, for your responses.   01:18:16 Céline: Thank you father God Bless you.   01:18:23 Victor - WV: Thank you!   01:19:23 Bob Cihak, AZ: Sometimes it's focus, not digression.   01:19:24 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!   01:19:37 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all!   01:20:10 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!   01:20:11 David: Thank you Father. May God bless you and your mother!   01:20:17 Rachel: Thank you!

 

We continued our reflection upon the fathers’ writing on fornication and the passion of lust. What becomes immediately clear is how much they prized this virtue and how important they saw it for the spiritual life as a whole. Purity of heart has always been connected, rightly wrongly, with purity on the level of sensuality. The fact that the fathers valued it so greatly also led them into a kind of fierce ascetic battle to attain it. At times they could fall into extremes and excess - leading to a weakening of the body almost to the point of death. They had to learn that the disciplining of the body through fasting, vigils and prayer is only part of the struggle. The more important element is relying upon the grace of God and trusting in him in the midst of the spiritual warfare.

One of the things that have made this battle with fornication so difficult is the shame that is often associated with it; not only with the physical act itself, but the relentless thoughts that often afflict an individual. This shame often creates an internal agitation and anxiety that makes a person more vulnerable to seeking immediate physical relief. Shame also has led asceticism to be used as a defense mechanism, causing many to repress the desires that they have rather than allowing them to be transformed by the grace of God and by a growing attachment to and love for him.  Inevitably such repression will break down and the same desires will manifest themselves in an even stronger fashion. It is for this reason that the demons become the greatest accuser of one who has fallen into this particular sin. He knows that if he can lead them into despair and get them to give up on the hope for healing, he will be able to dismantle their spiritual life.

Patience, endurance, the willingness to bear affliction without making concessions to the thoughts that afflict us – this is the path forward. Paired with clinging to the grace of God and the strength that comes through the holy sacraments, the disordered attachments begin to diminish. The fathers eventually discovered, as we have already seen, that it is important to avoid excess. If we are ruthless with ourselves, we can we can weaken ourselves not only physically, but also in terms of our resolve. Quite simply a person can grow so tired that they want to give up.

We must always keep before our eyes, then, the heavenly bridegroom and the understanding that we wage the spiritual warfare, not in isolation, but surrounded by all the angels in the Saints. And even if we are to fall every single day, St. John Climacus tells us, and yet turn to God in repentance our guardian angel looks upon us with joy. 

May God give us all not only the resolve to remain in the battle but an invincible hope in his grace and mercy.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:14:38 Cindy Moran: I studied 3 years with Dr Muto & Fr, Adrian   00:15:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 181, # 4   00:15:28 Anna Lalonde: I'm interested in Spiritual Formation if you can share connections at some point.   00:15:39 Cindy Moran: ok!   00:32:08 santiagobua: We can start recieving after we bend the knee to the Lord, not before   00:32:55 Anna Lalonde: Humility and Holy Eucharist brings upon Chastity. Is that right?   00:33:54 Anthony: It would be helpful for a person in a moment of any moral suffering to distinguish actual sin from "spiritual warfare."   00:34:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes   00:58:42 Anthony: The image for me is a starfish opening a clam.  The clam tries as hard as it can to stay shut. The starfish wants to enter, and (I'm mixing metaphors), stick a knife in between the shells to cut off the victim from God and the land of the living.  That, for me, is the pure fear, of being cut off from hope and God.   01:08:53 Forrest Cavalier: This story #8 shows a wisdom in using the natural reactions of the physical body to abhor the sin for how deadly it is. It looks like good Pavlovian psychology.   01:11:55 Sheila: Salvation Army   01:14:09 Una: Is that Jack Sparks?   01:14:45 Una: Victory in the Unseen Warfare (red cover)   01:15:03 Una: Also Virtue in the Unseen Warfare (green cover)   01:15:09 Una: Fr. Jack Sparks   01:15:18 Rod Castillo: I’ve read it but in Spanish   01:16:40 Lilly: Thank you Father   01:17:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!   01:17:23 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father!   01:17:25 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you ☺️   01:17:28 Dave Warner | AL: Thank you Father!   01:17:28 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:17:28 Serene Lai: THank you Father!   01:17:37 Janine: Thank you Father!   01:17:51 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!

 

Having completed the 30th Step of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, we are blessed to receive from the hand of St. John one additional bit of writing – “To the Shepherd“. It is here that John writes to the Abbot of the neighboring monastery who first requested that John produce for his monastery a treatise on the spiritual life.  He turns his attention now to this shepherd of souls – he who is responsible for the care of those entrusted to him. For the Abbot, it would be the monks of his monastery, and for those within the church, it would be the spiritual father. One might also say that the words written here would apply to all of those who offer spiritual care to others, including and especially mothers and fathers. 

John begins by telling us that the shepherd is he who seeks out to set aright the lost sheep. He does this not primarily through words, but by means of guilelessness, zeal and prayer; that is, by example. The shepherd above all must be a model of virtue and one who instructs out of experience not from what he has read.

He must also be a pilot. One who is a skilled helmsman, guiding his ship, not only through the billows of a storm, but raising it up out of the abyss itself, as if raising a ship that has sunk or smashed against the rocks. Again, one who has the capacity to do this is a person who has persevered through the experience of fear and hopelessness, one who knows where the dangers lie, the signs of a storm, and where one will crash upon the reef. He must be a genuine teacher, one upon whose heart God has etched the truth. He should not be one who needs other books, but rather he should be one who speaks from the heart and speaks of his own distinctive and unique trials. He must understand then that he must teach from on high. For lowly instructions cannot possibly heal lowly beings. We are healed by grace and through divine wisdom. 

In the role of a shepherd, he must not be afraid to reprimand those sheep who fall behind because of slothfulness or gluttony. To be separated from the flock, to cut oneself off from communion with God and with others who seek to breathe the same air, is to place oneself in jeopardy. The shepherd must forever keep his gaze directed heavenward, especially when the sheep are inclined to keep their heads turned towards the earth and the things of this world. It is then that they become easy prey for the wolves and so like John the Baptist he must forever be calling them to repentance. His mind must be like that of a dog; senses heightened and alert to the approach of any danger warning those in his charge. 

As a true physician of souls, he must not only have the capacity to diagnose the malady, but the instruments necessary to heal the wounds of others. He must understand the seriousness of the ailment and the right kind of remedy in order that he does not make things worse or fail to apply what is needed to bring an individual back to the fullness of health. He cannot be squeamish or hesitant in offering the diagnosis or applying the remedy. For he knows that he must give answer to the Master for the care he has given.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:09:32 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 249, # 1   00:31:03 Jeffrey Fitzgerald: On that note, Father, about the disconnect with the Fatjers, Ive discovered that even the simplest mention of the Eastern Fathers—in my spiritual direction or other Catholic contexts—people in general look at me like I’m speaking gibberish.  In my own parish, it’s all a matter of “Vatican 2 says…”, followed by agreement or disagreement depending on their own spiritual world view. I know you and many commentators have noted that this would happen, but it’s still startling.   00:33:34 Kate : To tag onto to Jeffrey’s point, I was warned to stay away from the Fathers.  I was warned that hesychasm is “dangerous.”   00:34:11 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "To tag onto to Jeffr..." with 😮   00:35:42 Bob Cihak, AZ: Yes, words in books can be wonderful. BUT, words are symbols of experience, as said by philosopher Eric Voegelin. Many of the writings we've read reflect the latter, i.e., experience leads; words try to articulate the experience for others.   00:35:50 Myles Davidson: On a positive note, I listened to a Bishop Barron video he did on the Holy Hour and he was giving different examples of what one may do in a Holy Hour. As an example he outlined what he had done in his Holy Hour that morning and he had prayed the Jesus Prayer for half of it. He said he loved it and did it regularly. Great to such a high profile Roman Catholic bishop promoting the Jesus Prayer like this!   00:36:55 Art: Let us start up Desert Fathers Societies in churches everywhere to teach these very baseline concepts, practices, and readings.   00:40:16 Anthony: Encounter. In War & Peace, an old man advises to read the Bible, even in the unfamiliar slavonic language, and over time will come comprehension and understanding.  That's like the spiritual life.  And, it's kind of true for me when I read New Testament in Italian.  Slowly the meaning comes.   00:40:28 Anthony: Reacted to Let us start up Dese... with "👍"   00:45:06 Gregory Chura: Learning in a different language... Attending Mass in Spanish made me listen to what I was praying.  Yes!  Slow down.   00:45:38 Anna Lalonde: I'm so grateful you're training us in desert Father's. My children ask almost every night if you're on. 😂   00:57:30 Bob Cihak, AZ: Faith DOES heal!!   01:09:09 Anthony: Maybe our catechizing should include this: repent immediately, be confident God forgives, do the opposite of the bad, and when you see a priest, if the matter was grave, ask for Confession.   01:10:03 Anna Lalonde: Minimal weekly Repentance has worked awesome for us!   01:11:49 Kate : I have to say that I am just amazed.  At the risk of oversimplifying, what we are talking about is love.  The Love of Christ.  There is a saying that time heals all wounds…but really, it is the Love of Christ that heals.  Honestly, this has been one of the biggest revelations to me since discovering the Fathers…that the Love of Christ heals!   And the spiritual father is an instrument of this Love.   01:12:26 Anthony: Reacted to I have to say that I... with "❤️"   01:15:51 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂   01:15:55 Jeff O.: Thank you! Happy Thanksgiving to you all!   01:16:10 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Reacted to "Thank you! Happy Tha..." with 👍   01:16:11 Laura: Happy Thanksgiving 🥧   01:16:18 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!   01:16:26 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!

 

Both in the stories that we are told from the lives of the fathers and from the particular teachings that they offer their spiritual sons, we begin to get into the nitty-gritty of the struggle with the passion of lust and fornication. Again what we are presented with is the fierceness of the battle. Part of the reason for this is that the soul has implanted in it by nature a proclivity towards certain pleasures. Saint Anthony the great tells us that it does not act, however, without the heart so desiring. Desire as we’ve so often discussed is essential in the spiritual life. We have a keen sense of our lack and incompleteness outside of God. In this sense, all of our desires as human beings are reflection of our great desire for God and for what He alone can satisfy. 

This proclivity towards certain pleasures can begin to take hold of the soul when we are over-attentive to nourishing our bodies with food and drink. In our tendency towards excess our hearts can be taken over by the desire for fleshly pleasure. 

When we find ourselves repeatedly seeking out pleasures as an end in themselves then we become vulnerable to the provocation of the demons due to their envy. They can try to stir up the fleshly desires in order to distract us from the things of God and the remembrance of God. 

It is so important for us who struggle in the spiritual life to know well the difference between these sources of our proclivity toward sensuality. We cannot allow ourselves to be ignorant of their causes and the many ways that they manifest themselves. We must learn how to confront our temptations as well as to embrace the remedies that the fathers put before us.

It is important for us to understand that much of the spiritual battle plays itself out on a psychological level and the means of warfare begins with the thoughts. When we lack watchfulness and allow ourselves to daydream and entertain every kind of thought and image, we find that our memory and our imagination become the holding place of so many things that come back to afflict us in the spiritual battle.

Therefore, we will discover in the coming months that such a spiritual battle is only won through the grace of God and constant of prayer. The spiritual life is not about endurance but rather humility. We engage in the ascetical life because we know our poverty. We must exercise our faith to the fullest extent in order that God’s grace might bear the greatest fruit possible within our hearts.

---   Text of chat during the group:   00:36:02 Kate : I recently read a quote, “The avaricious soul is one for whom God is not enough.”  It made me wonder if this could be applied to any of the passions…gluttony, lust, etc.   00:41:06 Nypaver Clan: Film cameras = analog photography   00:41:12 Una: The lust of the eyes = images   00:41:46 sharonfisher: I think so true, and ‘middle’ class needs to best of these things to feel like they’re keeping up. It shouldn’t be so. It makes  it hard for a family to afford life.   00:42:18 sharonfisher: Reacted to "The lust of the eyes..." with ❤️   00:43:20 Anna Lalonde: Blue light and other things are dangerous in the neurology and psychology of children. It damages their brains.   00:43:35 sharonfisher: Replying to "I think so true, and..."   Thanks for your corrections!   00:48:18 Anthony: I think the shock of any vile thought (lust, avarice, blasphemy) that spontaneously arise in the mind causes grief.   00:49:26 Anthony: In the Philokalia I appreciate a father emphasizing Deliberation in something being a free act of will.   00:52:38 Una: I don't understand what these blasphemous thoughts are   01:03:39 Rebecca Thérèse: When I worked in mental health I found that often when women had been abused from a young age, they often didn't understand that they had the right to say no. People who are used to having no control over their bodies find it almost impossible to set appropriate boundaries even simply relating to their own desires. It's easy to be judgemental of people's relationships if we don't understand what's underlying the decisions that they make.   01:03:50 Myles Davidson: UFC   01:03:50 Francisco Ingham: mma   01:04:14 Una: Gladiator movies!   01:04:35 Wayne: Reacted to "When I worked in men..." with 👍   01:06:00 Anthony: I STILL love baseball games on AM radio. :)   01:11:41 Anthony: Another thing that caused shock and grief is forgetting we have the sneaky bodies enemies who attack psychologically, not like people or beasts.   01:12:58 Una: Reacted to "When I worked in m..." with 👍   01:15:18 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father Blessing   01:15:38 Lisa: Reacted to "Thank You Father Ble..." with 👍   01:16:45 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:16:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂   01:17:01 Aric Bukiri: Thank you Father!   01:17:22 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father   01:17:24 Francisco Ingham: This is wonderful Father, thank you for this place of spiritual rest

 

As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent St. John unfolds for us the heights to which we are drawn – the theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Love. Hope, often the most neglected of virtues, is the annulment of despair. It allows us to hold on to the promise of Christ to be with us always. Even when faith seems to fail us and all grows dark because of the cross that we carry, our hope in the Lord allows us to be consoled by his mercy and to be drawn forward. It protects us from despondency and doubt.

Love when unimpeded allows us to see as God sees; to see the signs of the times and how things will unfold even when all seems chaotic. This divine love yields miracles; the supernatural healing and perfecting the natural. Through it we come to see the things of the kingdom with clarity. This clarity creates a fire within the heart; an urgent longing and thirst for the Lord that only he can quench. It is our movement into eternity. It reveals to us that the kingdom is now, heaven is now, eternity is now! We come to see that this love is not distant but that the kingdom dwells within. 

St. John closes the step by calling out to Love Himself to satisfy his desire, to show him the path of the ascent that is most direct. For even though he had received this wisdom from others, St. John understands that it is only Love himself who can guide us. It is the experience of this love alone that moves us from words to reality.

Finally, St. John exhorts us along with all those who read his book to ascend eagerly and to be resolved in their hearts to strive for the Lord above all things. He is our life, our salvation, our love!

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Text of chat during the group:

00:01:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: My microphone isn’t working again but this is probably for the better, because I have a strong head cold with the virus also giving my voice into a gravelly inflection.   Doreen Stacy, our artist friend’s funeral was yesterday. Preparations conflicted with our Monday meeting; I know I’m already excused but wanted to ask for prayers. Doreen only had 3 children but one of her daughters had 11. Who would have guessed that an English Professor could splendidly support a family that size?   00:08:21 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0   00:12:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What is the title of the St. Isaac book?   00:12:44 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 179, # I   00:14:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: Oops. Wrong book. Actually p.246, # 30 P. 179, # I   00:15:15 David: Sr. Barbara it is ISBN 978-0-943405-16-2 Holy Transfiguration Monastery my copy is 2011   00:26:39 Rebecca Thérèse: In what specifically are we supposed to hope? And what does lack of hope look like?   00:27:16 Lilly (Toronto, CA): “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” ...It's hard to surrender our weakness or sufferings, but it's in those darkest times that a simple Psalm will be enough to help us persevere   00:30:58 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..."   The Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian   00:32:31 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..."   https://htmp.org/St-Isaac-Ascetical-Homilies/overview.html   00:58:14 Maureen Cunningham: Hound oh heaven   00:58:41 Joseph: “Love is the progress of eternity” echoes St. Gregory of Nyssa’s notion of epektasis, the eternal ‘stretching and straining’ of the soul toward God. Each step toward God is both a fulfillment and a new beginning. Our mystical ascent never truly comes to an end, the cup is never entirely full, our love reaches out to God for eternity.   00:59:54 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Who's the author of Flying over the abyss?   01:00:28 Dave Warner | AL: Flying over the Abyss: https://essexmonastery.com/bookshop/flying-over-the-abyss   01:01:26 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Thank you   01:01:41 Dave Warner | AL: Replying to "Who's the author of ..."   Archmandrite Zacharias Zacharou   01:02:18 Dave Warner | AL: Reacted to "Thank you" with 👍   01:03:20 David: I had an aunt who everyone loved. Children who were very bad she used to say "how peppy". She always told me - look till you see a glimmer of Christ and with patience you will see even the slightest light in some aspect. I remember this often and it seems like once you know what they have gone through or lacked in their experience there always is some of the divine in almost everyone. Just that thought helps me with trying to find something in the most difficult people I have encountered.   01:06:55 David: So your uncle thought you were peppy?   01:12:01 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0   01:12:32 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You and all are always a blessing.   01:13:21 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:13:22 Cindy Moran: These sessions have taught me so much! Thank you!   01:13:23 David: Thank you Father may God bless you and your mother!   01:13:24 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thank you, Father.   01:13:31 Joseph: Thank you, Father   01:13:36 Art: Thank you Father!   01:13:38 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂