What do we live for? Or rather, better stated, Who do we live for? As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, St. John speaks to us about the nature of Divine Love that is our destiny and dignity in Christ. We pursue the spiritual life for no abstract reason - not for moral perfection - not to satisfy a sense of religious duty. Nor are we driven by fear or anxiety as has sadly so often been the case. 

It has always been Love that beckons us forward, that gradually heals the wounds of our sin or the traumas that we have borne. Anything that obstructs our vision of love and the mercy, God desires to overcome. God has created us for himself, made us in his own image and likeness precisely that we might share in the fullness of his life. The nature of love is curative not punitive. 

St. John begins by speaking of those who keep in their imagination the face of the beloved and embrace it tenderly. This love often is so strong that it strips them even of the need for sleep or for food. The one who yearns for God says: “My soul thirsts for God, the mighty, the living God. The grace of this reality transforms nature to the point that even their countenance changes and is filled with the joy and the peace of the kingdom.

Furthermore, the pure of heart, the one who loves without impediment, is the truth theologian and so grasp the very nature of the most holy trinity. Their heart transformed by love shows itself in their love of neighbor, their intolerance for slander or anything that might diminish the other.

St. John also tells us that the power of love is in hope because by it we await the reward of love. Even when we cannot see, when we find ourselves wrapped in the darkness of the cross that we carry, it is in hope that we find rest and the reassurance of God‘s love for us .

---

Text of chat during the group:

00:14:33 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 245, # 16   00:27:24 Jeff O.: Seems like Psalm 1, Jeremiah 17, the river of life flowing in and through us producing within us fruit no matter what   00:30:04 Anna Lalonde: Is that the fear of reverence and awe of God?   00:31:17 Cindy Moran: I remember in a worldly being a love sick teenager and could care less about eating   00:32:30 David: Are there different levels of fear? I remember when I was a child my sister and I used to say the worst punishment was seeing disappointment from our mother and father not any correction. I sometimes feel more like this than trying to reconcile a loving God who has done so much and fire and brimstrone.   00:34:48 Myles Davidson: I love St. Isaacs view of hell as the love of God that is painful to those who have rejected Him   00:43:17 David: I love the mass no matter what but I often find homilies downloaded from sites which feel detached, not from the heart. I find the priest who speak of personal experience or their struggles capture the parish more. It seems there are administrators and holy men but they are often not in balance.   00:47:57 Jeff O.: St. Maximos’s “Questions 17-19” are great examples of examining the inner meaning of Scripture’s ‘enigmas’ with the fear of God (as he says). A higher reading, deeper reading - a mystical engagement with the Spirit that brings out the beautiful truths. He works out Exodus 4 with Moses and the angel threatening death into a beautiful way of describing the spiritual journey   00:48:54 Rebecca Therese: I heard someone say once that hell is a mercy for those who feel tortured by the vision of God.   00:50:19 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I heard someone say ..." with 🙏🏼   00:53:26 Francisco Ingham: We need less news and more nous   00:53:37 David: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍   00:53:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍   00:54:01 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 😂   01:02:20 Anna Lalonde: I call that domestic monastic as we do   01:12:15 Nick Bodmer: Wow, that's amazing, Fr. !   01:12:38 Serene Lai: How can we increase our hope?   01:14:49 Nypaver Clan: They instantly become little saints!   01:16:58 Myles Davidson: Fr’s Substack: https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy   01:17:42 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing to Charbel please.   01:17:42 Art: Reacted to "Fr’s Substack: https..." with 👍   01:18:27 Rebecca Therese: Thank you🙂   01:18:33 David: Thank you father! May God bless you!🙏   01:18:34 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:18:34 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all!   01:18:44 Nick Bodmer: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏"   01:18:52 Nick Bodmer: Thank you!   01:19:01 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏"

 

 

Why is it that we engage in the ascetic life and the spiritual life as a whole?  How is it that we come to understand the extreme practices of the desert fathers as they entered into the struggle with the passions? Seemingly they were willing to do almost anything to overcome temptation and to suffer extreme disciplines, punishing the body, until the passions were overcome.

Again, we must understand that the desert was a laboratory. The fathers were driven there by their desire to live for God and to live for Him completely. Of course, they entered into these exercises with an imperfect understanding. Yet, in reading the Evergetinos we are blessed to see the development of their understanding and practice; how it becomes more measured and more focused upon God and the grace he provides.

Beyond this, however, they were engaging in this way of life not simply in the pursuit of certain principles. Nor were they seeking to overcome their natural flaws and defects. They understood the struggle was also with demonic provocation. Therefore, they were not simply trying to foster good habits or to acquire a taste for that which was more virtuous. They understood that the spiritual life involved a bloody warfare against evil. The shadow of the Cross always falls over our struggles and stands as a reminder of the costs of sin. To overcome sin and its consequence, Christ sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane and was obedient unto death on the cross. The spiritual life is formed and shaped by the Paschal Mystery. It involves always a dying to self and rising to new life in Christ. To strip it of this understanding is to make our spiritual life and practices impotent. We are to be conformed to Christ in every way. We preached Jesus Christ and him crucified not only in words, but in our day-to-day struggle against sin and the passions.

---

Text of chat during the group:

00:13:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 172, # C   00:22:42 Myles Davidson: What’s the difference between an oath and say, a general intention to do something?   00:24:43 Kate : What about resolutions that we make for a penitential time, such as Lenten resolutions or Advent resolutions?   Is this a good practice according to the Fathers?   00:26:58 Forrest Cavalier: And all of these rely on God's grace for success. not our will alone.   00:37:38 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that?   00:38:25 Myles Davidson: Today is the beginning of St Martins Lent so to finish this now has been good timing   00:40:39 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that?   00:42:05 Myles Davidson: I’ve been eating less meat meals and find a definite increase in nepsis and general ability to concentrate in my prayer   00:43:18 Wayne: I think you you eat to much surgar etc you get highs and low  from it..   00:44:33 Sheila: It's a true challenge to avoid all the desserts because it seems these days people start Christmas festivities as soon as Thanksgiving ends, or in the case of many around me at school...now.   00:44:55 Sheila: Secular Christmas is all around.   00:47:16 Kate : And there are so many different diets now that encourage us to fixate on certain types of foods…keto, carnivore, longevity diets, etc. etc.  There might be some health benefits to them, but they can become intense distractions.   00:48:22 Anna Lalonde: Homeschooling... Everything then is centered in faith.   00:49:50 Anna Lalonde: There's so many resources and online live classes and tutoring we have less issues as homeschooling.   00:50:01 Anna Lalonde: Lol   01:01:14 Myles Davidson: Better to engage in the battle imperfectly than to not engage in it at all   01:18:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes that's what I do. Go to Jesus Prayer   01:19:12 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:19:16 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂

 

What does it mean to be drawn into the mystery of Divine Love? Even as beautifully as John writes, it is difficult to wrap our minds around the experience of the living God; the experience of a love that is free of every impediment and passion, a love that makes us sons and daughters of God and so shapes are identity in such a way that it is unshakable. 

What is it that can overcome such a love? Our identity is often shaped by anxieties and fears, the unexpected and unknown, and our insecurities. Yet, as we are immersed in the love of God, all fear dissipates and is overtaken by an urgent longing for God and the thirst for his love. 

We often resist opening ourselves up and becoming vulnerable to this love. One famous author wrote, “humankind can only bear so much reality.“ Yet the love of God, the more that it is experienced, allows us to run toward that reality rather than avoid it . It  reveals to us that even our weaknesses, the things that we perhaps hate about ourselves or the wounds that we bear, draw us toward him. Love reveals to us that we experience nothing in isolation. Christ is always present to us and within us. This being so allows us to offer Him all that we are without shame.

---

Text of chat during the group:

00:06:36 Una: Byzantine Carmelite nuns https://www.byzantinediscalcedcarmelites.com/index.html   00:06:55 Una: In Sugarloaf, Pennsylvania   00:08:46 Bob Cihak, AZ: The author was one of the lecturers at Acton University when I attended over 10 years ago. "The Glory that is Pittsburgh" at  https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/the-glory-that-is-pittsburgh-5753572   00:12:33 Una: A line from that article that has me ROFL   00:12:35 Una: Pittsburgh is a town that makes me want to rhapsodize like a follower of Ayn Rand.   00:14:05 carol_000: Does this Zoom start a bit before 5:30 E Time ?   00:14:28 Una: Just chat before 5:30   00:15:10 carol_000: Una ..Thanks   00:16:00 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Is it the same material as Father posts on FB?   00:16:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9   00:19:08 Daniel Allen: What page are we on again? Sorry I missed it.   00:19:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9   00:19:21 Daniel Allen: Thank you   00:46:02 Anthony: Part of the issue is how we receive the Gospel and Apocalypse....these are written with fearful language.   00:48:36 susan: some of the teaching seems so hard to do or embrace and seems like climbing Mt Everest lol so I have decided to become a micro ascetic  offer the smallest, micro offerings tiny tiny acts   00:50:21 Anthony: Should peter have been confident of forgiveness , even before the Lord forgave him?   00:51:12 David: Isn't there a process of letting go of things that leads us from obedience and caring to devotion. It seems love itself has stages and perhaps devotion is a joy in itself. But without letting go we lack faith and trust in the beloved.   01:04:11 David: My grandfather one time had me write down everything I was worried about for weeks. He kept it and showed it to me a year later and I realized how much time I wasted on that. While it took me years to understand it did help me move from belief to faith.   01:04:29 Daniel Allen: How do you give God “those things” in a concrete way? For instance how do you give God your anxiety in a concrete way, because sometimes offering it in prayer seems somewhat abstract.   01:05:19 Wayne: Reacted to "My grandfather one t..." with 👍   01:08:28 David: A beautiful tradition I saw in Potes, Spain was at collection people would give both money but what concerned them or what sins they were struggling with written on small pieces of paper to bring to the altar. I wonder which this is just a small town and (small t tradition) rather than more common. Just struck me as beautiful and I still think of that when I put something in the collection basket.   01:09:07 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Some find writing helpful - a note or letter to the Lord in one's journal. Or an expression in art...   01:09:14 Anna Lalonde: More frequent mystery of Repentance and gratitude are so important for this! Seen it with grief in my children and I.   01:14:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!   01:14:48 Rachel: Thank you   01:14:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂   01:14:50 David: Thank you father. May God bless you!   01:15:33 Jeff O.: Thank you so much!

 

Tonight we read the final sections on the fathers’ reflection on the practice of fasting. Once again the focus is on decorum; how does one eat in the presence of others while not giving himself over to pride. It is ever so easy to think oneself the great ascetic and hold oneself above others within the community. Ego can even distort well-practiced discipline into something that sets oneself apart from others rather than leads one to show greater desire for God, virtue and mercy towards others. 

All of our practices, the fathers teach us, must be guided by spirit of gratitude. We give thanks for the food that we receive and that nourishes us and we avoid criticizing others for how much they eat. Self discipline is not a weapon to be wielded by the ego for its own pleasure. Our tendency is to devour our brothers’ flesh by our criticism, and as the psalmist tells us to “eat up God’s people as if eating our bread.”

A humble attitude must be fostered, and we must not be ill-mannered. For example, a senior monk within a monastery must not demand honor or reverence or put on airs before his juniors. He must not draw attention to Himself in any way that would diminish charity among the brothers. What is the value of toiling all day only to undermine oneself to satisfy petty pride?

Again, the fathers want us to understand that fasting and all of our disciplines are about love. We must not diminish the practice by becoming legalistic or moralistic in our view. Therefore, we are taught not to takes oaths about avoiding certain foods. In doing so we set aside the freedom that is ours. No food is reprehensible. We are merely to eat with restraint and gratitude. But if we take an oath and then break it by eating the particular food we fall into perjury. As Christ tells us, no food is unclean; rather it is what comes out of the heart that makes a person unclean or sinful.

A rather lengthy discussion ensued in regards to avoiding a kind of ghetto mentality in our Christian practice; setting ourselves apart from others rather than serving them in the love of Christ. It is a narrow line that we walk and demands that we understand that all is grace. Christ has taken on our poverty and emptied himself in order that we might know the fullness of life and love. Our exercise of the faith, that is, our asceticism, must be relational; it must be directed toward Christ and enable us to love as He loves. Asceticism is not an end in itself, nor do we live out our Christianity in isolation. We turn to Christ, we die to sin and self, in order to be raised to life in him. To avoid the kind of isolationism that we would see in the scribes and Pharisees, we must become Christ.

---

Text of chat during the group:

00:09:37 Cindy Moran: The joys of home ownership 😜   00:11:29 Una: I'm a happy renter   00:12:37 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 168, #F   00:35:02 Erick Chastain: Once you pop you can't stop- pringles   00:35:21 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Once you pop you can..." with 😮   00:36:46 Adam Paige: Two recommendations on fasting and feasting.. Benedictine monk Adalbert de Vogue's book To Love Fasting is back in print in English (https://a.co/d/3hSwoIX), and I recently watched the film Babette's Feast for the first time - very moving !   00:38:09 Myles Davidson: A free PDF of To Love Fasting is available here: https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting   00:40:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "A free PDF of To Lov..." with ❤️‍🔥   00:46:33 Francisco Ingham: There’s a great Chesterton quote related to this point   00:46:43 Francisco Ingham: “Let us put a complex entrée into a simple old gentleman; let us not put a simple entrée into a complex old gentleman. So long as human society will leave my spiritual inside alone, I will allow it, with a comparative submission, to work its wild will with my physical interior. I will submit to cigars. I will meekly embrace a bottle of Burgundy. I will humble myself to a hansom cab. If only by this means I may preserve to myself the virginity of the spirit, which enjoys with astonishment and fear.”   00:54:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“Let us put a comple..." with 🍷   00:55:51 Ambrose Little: Can you comment on the seeming contradiction between Christ’s example of eating and drinking with sinners (and generally chastising Pharisees for being puritanical), and the counsel to avoid such and only surround oneself with those we deem holy and who think like we do.   01:05:17 Ambrose Little: It seems like there is real danger (that has actually been realized) in thinking and acting as if the church is only for the already perfect. But as Pope Francis has emphasized, the church is supposed to be a hospital for sinners. I just think the advice to avoid sinners and those who are not seeking God as we imagine we are can easily be internalized as exclusivity, isolationism,  and judgmentalism. It requires humility as a primary principle, to realize we are sinners, too.   01:14:29 Ambrose Little: Amen. Thank you!   01:14:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂   01:14:54 santiagobua: Thank you !   01:15:36 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:15:47 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father   01:15:52 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father   01:15:59 Erick Chastain: Thank you father!   01:16:05 Una: Thank you   01:16:08 santiagobua: Where can we find the Substack?   01:16:10 SYu’s iPhone: Thank you, Father.   01:16:43 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where can we find th..."   https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy   01:16:46 Myles Davidson: https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy   01:16:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍   01:17:10 santiagobua: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍   01:17:17 Ambrose Little: Reacted to "https://substack.com…" with 👍   01:17:18 Erick Chastain: Just woke up earlier

 

We are brought to the denouement of the Ladder in these final steps on Dispassion and the “Trinity of Virtues” - Faith, Hope and Love. The words of St. John ring forth as if from the mouth of a poet. It is only one who has experience of and has seen the beauty of Divine love who can then speak of the urgent longing that begins to take over the soul when it no longer is held back by the weight of sin or one’s ego.

The dispassionate man, St. John tells us, no longer lives himself, but Christ lives in him. He has eyes only for the beloved and living in constant union with him.  All becomes Grace; Christ’s virtue becomes our virtue, Christ’s strength becomes our strength, Christ’s love becomes our love. 

Understanding this we must not allow anything to hold us back. Above all we should desire to enter into the bridal chamber; for this is exactly what Christ has made possible for us. Our relationship with God is often described with nuptial imagery; we are destined to become one with the most holy Trinity. What excuse could we possibly put forward for not at least seeking to break through the wall of our sin by embracing the forgiveness that is so freely offered?

St. John’s discussion of dispassion leads us to the final step of the Ladder. The theological virtues, named so because they have God as their end, become St. John’s subject matter. These three are preeminent because they endure unto eternity. The greatest of them, love, allows no respite for the soul but drives her on with a kind of blessed madness. Overcome with an urgent longing for the Beloved it takes on a greater resemblance to God in so far as this is possible. The soul becomes inebriated - so often does it seek to satisfy its thirst for divine love. Having satisfied this desire the heart expands, taking on  distinctive properties where it becomes a fountain of faith, an abyss of patience and a sea of humility. What takes place then is extraordinary: love banishes every thought of evil or judgment. Only mercy, forgiveness and compassion remain.

---

Text of chat during the group:

00:13:44 Myles Davidson: According to Wikipedia Scorcese is doing one on Moses the Black   00:14:08 Myles Davidson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese_Presents:_The_Saints   00:18:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 243, #13   00:37:15 Anthony: Renzo Allegri write a book: "Padre Pio Man of Hope." Good book.   00:39:32 Anthony: And this is why legalism and scrupulousity is such a problem. They strangle wonder and longing.   00:41:29 Anthony: Franciscans are  like the east   00:56:20 Anthony: Eastern Star   00:56:26 Leilani Nemeroff: Eastern Star   00:57:29 David: A book that really lead me to the fathers and from mere belief to faith was "What Difference Does Jesus Make"- Frank Sheed. Really hard to find not sure why this is not more popular.   00:59:25 carol_000: What time zone did this meeting start at 7:30   00:59:34 Nypaver Clan: EST   00:59:34 David: EST   00:59:48 carol_000: Thanks   01:00:09 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Thanks" with 🥰   01:01:21 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: The kingdom must be preached/shared -  we are way too silent about sharing our faith...   01:02:42 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Guardini has a great book on prayer..   01:02:49 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Guardini has a great..." with 👍   01:04:42 carol_000: Calgary, Alberta Canada.  Mountain Standard Time. My first time here.   01:05:07 Nypaver Clan: Meditations Before Mass - Guardini   01:05:07 Myles Davidson: Welcome 🙂   01:06:19 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Thanks.   01:07:33 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Hooray!  Glad you found us! 🙏🏼   01:07:36 Jeff O.: The madness of pride as opposed to the madness of love is an interesting juxtaposition. Two very distinct and different “pictures” of madness.   01:09:10 Cindy Moran: Reacted to The madness of pride... with "👍"   01:09:48 Cindy Moran: Me, too!!   01:09:53 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Welcome, Canada!🇨🇦   01:10:06 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   I've been following Fr. Charbel for a while, but now I'm wondering which branch of Orthodoxy is this? Reference to author & "Mass" ?   01:10:59 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Byzantine 01:11:09 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Thanks   01:12:54 Anna Lalonde: Thank you! My children and I are loving this.   01:13:03 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Ukrainian Greek   01:14:09 Jeff O.: That would be lovely!   01:14:26 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂"   Thanks, I was raised Ukr. Grk Orthodox but now go to OCA church in All English.   01:14:45 Kevin & Lilly: Yes!!   01:14:52 Rachel: and icon paintng   01:15:00 Jacqulyn: Let's do it!   01:15:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father   01:15:35 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:15:35 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing. Please especially St Charbel help me!   01:15:38 Rachel: thank you!   01:15:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊   01:15:42 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all!   01:15:44 David: Thank you father!   01:15:46 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father!   01:15:54 Edmund Dyjak: Thank You GOD Bless You

 

We have continued to make our way through the final few hypotheses about fasting and eating in general. What is gradually coming to light is that our relationship with Christ and our identity in Him is to form and fashion every aspect of our lives. This includes what we might consider the most mundane aspects of our life or what we take for granted, such as eating and common meals. 

What becomes perfectly clear in this hypothesis, however, is that there is a specific decorum that emerged in the practice of the fathers. The way that they looked at food and the way that they ate their common meals was all shaped by their greater commitment to the life of prayer and silence. The ascetical life shaped their actions and supported their pursuit of the ultimate goal. Thus eating, the quality of the food, the mannerisms at table and amount of food that other monks ate and the general behavior during meals all became important matters and subject to proper formation. 

The ideal was not to form a Christian gentleman, but rather to form a heart that was watchful at all times of the day and that was very much aware of the power of our most basic appetites. We see restraint being taught; that is, slowing oneself down at meals and not being driven by the pressure of hunger or the allure of delicious food. It is Christ the Bread of Life that one is always seeking and so the way that we approach our meals should be a reflection of how we approach the Lord in the Holy Mysteries. Our mindset, our sense of gratitude, the solemnity of our attitudes and behaviors are all reflection of our understanding of the connection with the Paschal Mystery. When we think of our own formation we must have this broad scope so that we do not treat our ascetic practices as ends in themselves. All that we do must be offered to God or it is wasted.

---

Text of chat during the group:

00:17:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 165, #A   00:44:06 Una: LOL about the comment about men eating. And then they throw their silverware in the trash? Obviously, I've never been in a men's monastery. But how can we who are living in the world apply these standards to everyday dinners with family?   00:46:49 Una: I'm thinking of Thanksgiving Dinner where people gobble gobble gobble and aren't focused on God at all. Last year I had a hard time getting them to listen to the Prayer of St. Francis before the meal. Very secular family. How I personally may maintain my recollection yet still be social   00:47:50 Una: I find I can "go out" of myself so easily and get lost in socializing and talking (I'm an extravert) and then have difficulty becoming recollected again   01:03:42 Una: Is it true that the early Irish monasticism came from Egypt?   01:10:13 Una: There's a new book on this subject: Monastery and High Cross: The Forgotten Eastern Roots of Irish Christianity   01:10:20 Una: by Connie Marshner   01:10:34 Una: Sophia Institute Press   01:11:49 Steve: Good story   01:11:59 Una: Connie Marshner is a Melkite Green Catholic in Virginia   01:21:26 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!   01:21:48 Troy Amaro: Thank you Father.   01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, sorry I was so late, our clocks went back an hour yesterday and I forgot about the time difference   01:24:18 ANDREW ADAMS: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene.   01:25:19 Adam Paige: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene. https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy   01:25:44 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where does one find ..."   Thank you!   01:27:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: .. or https://frcharbelabernethy.substack.com/   01:28:16 Paul G.: Replying to ".. or https://frchar…" +1   01:29:21 Maureen Cunningham: Thank  you   01:32:17 Maureen Cunningham: Wow