In-depth interview podcast with leading corporate governance experts, including world-class founders, scholars, board members, executives, investors and more. The content is structured as a long-form conversation to explore not only the latest corporate governance trends, but also to get some personal insights from some of the best and brightest minds behind America's boardrooms.
(0:00) Intro.
(1:23) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(2:10) Start of interview.
(2:40) Patrick's "origin story."
(3:41) His time at Skadden and Olshan Frome Wolosky (leading shareholder activism legal practice).
(4:38) Joining Vinson & Elkins to co-build shareholder activism practice.
(6:40) Distinguishing between large, mid, and small cap activism.
(10:14) Reference to Lazard's 2023 Annual Review of Activism and Patrick's 2024 trends to watch out in activism.
(13:39) On ESG activism, and the impact of Exxon Mobil case ("[I]t was more of a capital allocation campaign, rather than ESG"). Distinguishing the Starbucks ESG campaign (targeting Starbucks' labor relations).
(18:29) Separating E, S, and G activist campaigns. "The 'S' is inherently political"
(20:29) On the evolution of Universal Proxy Rules for director elections.
(27:06) On the "lifecycle of a campaign" (activists' letters, withdrawals, settlements, proxy fights, etc.)
(31:36) The impact of institutional investors and proxy advisors (ISS and Glass Lewis) in shareholder activism. *Reference to the Problem of Twelve episode with HLS Prof John Coates.
(37:50) The importance of shareholder engagement (with large institutional investors and proxy advisors).
(40:55) On company or board preparedness for activist campaigns.
(44:45) Books that have greatly influenced his life:
(47:53) His mentors.
(49:00) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by.
(49:55) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.
(50:35) The living person he most admires.
Patrick Gadson is the Co-Head of Vinson & Elkins’ Shareholder Activism practice, which advises public companies in competitive proxy solicitations, strategic investor relations, and corporate governance.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
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You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:10) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(1:57) Start of interview.
(2:40) Leah's "origin story."
(3:41) Her time at IBM.
(4:48) Her founding story of TaskRabbit (Boston, 2008).
(12:43) The evolution of her board at TaskRabbit, and how to think about (startup) board composition and scaling.
(20:31) First CEO succession (after $12m Series B in 2012).
(25:10) Her return as CEO, raising a Series C, and adding 3 strategic independent directors.
(26:13) On hiring Stacy Brown-Philpot as COO, and successor to CEO role.
(30:45) Distinguishing between startup directors (management, investor, and independent directors).
(36:01) Transitioning to investing as a general partner at Fuel Capital. Motto: "We're on your corner, not in your kitchen"
(40:55) On the role of CEO coaches (vs board directors or advisors).
(42:44) About YPO. "It has been a hugely influential organization for me."
(45:21) Her thoughts on boardroom diversity. Reference to the LCDA.
(48:42) Innovation in the boardroom, risks and opportunities of AI.
(51:29) Books that have greatly influenced her life:
(51:51) Her mentors.
(52:25) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by.
(52:50) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.
(54:15) The living person she most admires.
Leah Solivan is a General Partner at Fuel Capital, a Silicon Valley-based seed stage venture capital firm. Prior to that, she was the founder, CEO and Executive Chair at TaskRabbit.
You can follow her on social media at:
Twitter: @labunleashed
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:10) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(1:58) Start of interview.
(2:43) His role at EY and appointments at Harvard's Safra Center for Ethics (ELSCE), MIT and Boston University.
(5:23) Defining AI. Reference to the 1956 Dartmouth AI conference.
(8:29) GAI, AI market and valuations.
(11:31) On AI Ethics for business and AI governance. Reference to Harvard's Danielle Allen.
(15:10) On the concept of Multistakeholderism and AI Ethics. Hippocratic Oath for AI: "Do No Harm to the World."
(19:10) Board Committee Structure for AI. "[Only] 67 of the S&P500 companies have some sort of board technology committee." NACD report on board technology committees. "You may get a financial boost from doing that" "I think that'll be 50% greater a year from now."
(22:39) On board oversight. A deep dive on evolution of Caremark duties.
(31:09) On AI regulation.
(34:41) Geopolitics between the U.S. and China on AI.
(37:44) On OpenAI's board fiasco. Unusual structures such as OpenAI, Anthropic, Inflection AI and xAI.
(44:02) Recommendations for directors using AI.
(47:40) The intersection between Web3 and AI.
(50:00) On his EY Podcast: Better Innovation.
(51:15) Other thoughts for directors: university partnerships and risks of employee use of GAI.
(54:22) Books that have greatly influenced his life:
(55:47) His mentors. At EY: Kate Barton (EY Global Co-Chair, Emeritus).
(56:18) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives his life by: "Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can do." (Arthur Ashe) and "No matter how far you travel in the wrong direction, you can always turn around." (Winston Churchill).
(56:53) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.
(58:04) The living person he most admires: Billy Jean King.
Jeff Saviano is the EY Emerging Technology Strategy & Governance Leader.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:12) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(2:00) Start of interview.
(3:10) Amy's "origin story."
(6:23) Her time leading Comcast Ventures, and how Corporate Venture Capital (CVC) has evolved.
(9:08) Why SF/Silicon Valley as a tech hub for Comcast Ventures.
(11:19) Her first public company board experience (with Adobe).
(13:15) Differences on serving on public and private (venture-backed) boards. "Much more hands-on in private companies."
(15:27) Differences between young and old public companies. Her experience on the board of On Running. "[M]y one advice to future board members or existing board members is to learn how to listen. And you're listening for different things, again, depending on the stage of the company."
(19:42) On "adversarial boards."
(24:10) On OpenAI's board fiasco. Trust in CEOs and boardrooms. Private companies and founder misbehavior. "You never fire fast enough." "You know when things are off."
(32:35) On the current AI investment cycle.
(36:16) On the state of San Francisco as a city and tech hub.
(39:35) On women sports, and her involvement with Bay FC, a pro women's soccer team based in SF/Bay Area.
(43:09) Her thoughts on the debate and politicization of ESG and DEI.
(46:41) Books that have greatly influenced her life:
(47:52) Her mentors: Ralph J. Roberts (founder of Comcast).
(49:02) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by: "Old men ought to be explorers" (T.S. Eliot) and "A house divided against itself cannot stand." (Abraham Lincoln)
(50:20) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.
(51:07) The living person she most admires: Liz Cheney and Taylor Swift.
Amy Banse is a Venture Partner at Mosaic General Partnership, a VC firm based in SF Bay Area. Amy has over 30 years of experience starting, investing in, and building businesses at Comcast and as a board member on numerous public and private companies, including Adobe, Clorox, On Running and Lennar Corporation.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:04) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(1:51) Start of interview.
(2:54) Terry's "origin story."
(5:18) The start of her legal career with O'Melveny & Myers.
(8:35) Her time at Howard Rice and her current role at Arnold & Portner (the firms merged in 2012).
(11:34) Her book ESG, the Professional's Guide to the Law and Practice of ESG, published by the American Bar Association.
(14:55) On the evolution of the purpose of the corporation and emergence of ESG.
(17:28) Environmental risks and opportunities (the "E" in ESG)
(21:00) Her take on the new SEC Climate Disclosure Rules. "It's arguably, to me, the Sarbanes-Oxley of its generation in terms of a regulatory shift."
(24:21) On the legal challenges to the SEC Climate Disclosure Rules.
(28:11) Social risks and opportunities (the "S" in ESG).
(33:31) On the ESG backlash. Reference to FT article ($13.3bn pulled out of BlackRock). Larry Fink's 2024 Chairman's Letter to Investors.
(37:50) Challenges to CA's board diversity laws (SB-826 and AB-979)
(42:14) Challenges to Nasdaq Board Diversity Rule.
(44:14) The Theranos Governance Story with Tyler Schulz (event hosted by BASF).
(46:22) BASF's Truth and Power Distinguished Speaker Series.
(48:47) Future corporate governance trends: ESG is increasingly intersectional (i.e. sustainability and AI)
(52:29) Books that have greatly influenced her life:
(54:04) Her mentors: Larry Rabkin (former partner at Howard Rice) and her Dad.
(54:57) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by: "To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that" (St Teresa of Avila) and "You have to see it to be it" (Billie Jean King)
(55:55) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.
(56:14) The living person she most admires: Gloria Steinem.
Terry Johnson is a partner at Arnold & Porter and the 2024 President of the Bar Association of San Francisco and its Justice and Diversity Center.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:27) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(2:14) Start of interview.
(3:30) Mary's "origin story."
(5:32) Her start as a whistleblower lawyer at Philips & Cohen. The advent of US Whistleblower reward programs (CFTC, SEC, IRS, Transportation, Treasury, and DOJ soon).
(7:50) The Theranos case and her representation of Tyler Schulz.
(14:02) More about the SEC Whistleblower Program.
(24:52) The Facebook (Meta) case and her representation of Frances Haugen. On the rise of whistleblowers in Silicon Valley: The Tech Worker Handbook (created by Ifeoma Ozoma, a whistleblower at Pinterest). The Silence No More Act (CA SB 331). Reference to Mark MacGann, the Uber whistleblower.
(31:00) On the health hazards to whistleblowers. Reference to New England Journal of Medicine article on impact in whistle-blowers in cases of major health care fraud. Unfortunate death of Boeing Whistleblower. The Personal Toll of Whistle-Blowing (New Yorker Magazine).
(37:52) On FCPA cases, and role of whistleblowers in foreign corruption enforced by the SEC and DOJ. Reference to the Billion Dollar Whale book.
(47:19) Future trends on whistleblower cases and corporate governance practices (elevation of Chief Compliance Officers).
(50:50) Advice to board members: embrace whistleblowers and encourage speaking up. Reference to this study: Evidence on the Use and Efficacy of Internal Whistleblowing Systems.
(52:37) Books that have greatly influenced her life: children books by William Steig (inspired her parenting).
(53:17) Her mentor: Lisa Foster.
(54:53) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." (Martin Luther King, Jr)
(55:53) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.
(56:18) The living person she most admires: whistleblowers generally, "I call them Truth Tellers and Up Standers".
Mary Inman is a partner at Whistleblower Partners LLP, a new boutique law firm specializing exclusively in representing whistleblowers under the various U.S. whistleblower reward programs.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro
(1:02) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(1:49) Start of interview.
(2:37) Katherine Henderson's "origin story."
(5:05) Amy Simmerman's "origin story."
(8:02) The origin and focus of their Delaware Corporate Law and Litigation Year in Review.
(9:14) Caseload of Delaware Court of Chancery judges.
(12:51) Cases involving director oversight duties ("Caremark duties"). Reference to the Blue Bell case (2019). "Mission critical risk areas." Reference to Section 220 Books and Records Demands.
(19:56) Duty of Oversight Applies to Officers (McDonald's case). Dismissal of case against directors (McDonald's II).
(23:13) Controlling Stockholders and conflicts of interest. (DE reconsiders scope of the MFW Doctrine in Match.com case)
(24:57) Distinctions between public and private company litigation. Reference to the NEA vs Rich case.
(30:36) On Delaware vs other states. Reference to the TripAdvisor case (Delaware company seeking to reincorporate in NV).
(36:55) Innovations in AI Governance. The example of Anthropic AI (use of PBCs and LTBT).
(43:24) On shareholder activism and validity of stockholder agreement-based restrictions over corporate governance matters (Moelis case).
(45:13) Securities claims on misleading risk disclosures.
(46:55) What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:
(48:02) Who were their mentors, and what they learned from them.
(49:00) Quotes they think of often or live their life by.
(49:52) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love.
(50:35) The living person they most admire.
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Katherine Henderson and Amy Simmerman are partners at the law firm Wilson Sonsini Goorich & Rosati.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(2:27) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(3:13) Start of interview. [Interviewer: UC Law SF Professor Abe Cable. Reference to his article "Does Trados Matter?" (2019)].
(4:17) Summary of the Trados case by Vice-Chancellor Laster.
(9:44) Concept of "residual value maximization." Distinguishing between standard of conduct and standard of review.
(16:17) Explaining standards of review: 1) Business judgment rule, 2) Enhanced scrutiny and 3) Entire fairness standard. The impact of conflicted transactions.
(23:55) Distinguishing governance standards from public companies and Silicon Valley-style private startups.
(28:10) Social factors or dynamics that make Silicon Valley VC-backed startups a relatively lower risk environment for litigation.
(31:07) Why directors should always try to maximize the value of the corporation for the residual. Emotional commitment and engagement in many cases.
(33:31) "What made Trados a difficult case and a litigable case was that this really was a sideways situation where the value was in the vicinity of an area where the common could take."
(36:36) How to think about maximizing the residual value. *reference to Credit Lyonnais opinion by Chancellor Allen (1991).
(39:04) Other trends or cases that present some litigation risk for startup corporate directors. "I don't know if there's anything super new. What we tend to see is sort of old problems recurring because these are really problems of human nature. And so things are cyclical."
(45:54) The importance of outside or independent directors. "I really think that somebody has to be in the room asking the proverbial dumb question, which usually isn't a dumb question. Usually it's the question that needs to be asked."
The Honorable J. Travis Laster was sworn in as Vice Chancellor of the Court of Chancery on October 9, 2009.
Professor Abe Cable joined the UC Law SF faculty in 2011. He is the Faculty Director of the UC Center for Business Law San Francisco.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:10) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(1:57) Start of interview.
(4:00) Alexandre's "origin story." His time as Commissioner of the Brazilian Securities and Exchange Commission (CVM) (2020-2023).
(7:34) On his OECD background note on Institutional Investors' Engagement in Latin America (2023).
(14:56) Local institutional investors and pension funds engagement in Brazil. *reference to E118 with John Coates: The Problem of Twelve, Index Funds and Private Equity.
(17:23) On stewardship codes.
(19:58) On internal stewardship teams at asset managers and passive investors.
(21:05) Challenges of shareholder activism and dispersed ownership in Brazil.
(25:53) Enforcement and Cooperation between U.S. and Brazilian regulators. *Reference Enhanced Memorandum of IOSCO.
(28:03) On the governance of State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs).
(34:24) The geopolitical landscape and where Brazil stands vis-a-vis China and the U.S.
(36:38) Fintech developments in Brazil. *Reference to Pix from Brazilian Central Bank (Open Finance Project).
(39:19) The future of corporate governance in Brazil, and prospects to join the OECD. Private right of action for enforcement?
(41:29) Book that has greatly influenced his life:
(42:08) His mentor: his father.
(42:47) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by: "No need to hurry but do not waste time" by Jose Saramago. "I'm neither an optimist nor a pessimist, I prefer to be a hopeful realist." (Ariano Suassuna)
(43:44) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.
(45:34) The living person he most admires.
Alexandre Rangel is a former Commissioner of the Brazilian Securities and Exchange Commission (CVM) (2020-2023) and Consultant of the OECD (2023). He’s currently practicing law at Rangel Advogados.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(0:55) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(1:41) Start of interview.
(2:21) Richard's "origin story." His position as Chair of WSGR's public company practice and Chair of the Nasdaq Listing and Hearing Review Council.
(7:30) On the origins and focus of WSGR's 2023 Silicon Valley 150 Corporate Governance Report.
(12:00) What findings were most surprising or unexpected in this year's report? Discussion on ESG disclosures.
(14:40) On ESG backlash and regional differences. Importance of (institutional) investors.
(15:36) On some SV150 companies leaving their CA HQs (both to other states and decentralizing with no HQ). Impact of diversity disclosure laws (SB-826 and AB-979) and taxation.
(18:48) Incorporating in Delaware vs other states (prompted by Elon Musk's desire to re-incorporate from DE to TX). FYI 143/150 (95%) of the SV150 are incorporated in Delaware.
(23:25) On evolution of virtual meetings (board and stockholder meetings).
(26:15) On evolution of board committees structure and focus (ie. ESG/sustainability, Cybersecurity/privacy, Human Capital, Technology, AI).
(32:13) Impact of Nasdaq Board Diversity Rule. *5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the rule (October 2023). Gender diversity in SV150: 33% boards, 22% C-level execs, 5% CEOs.
(36:09) On Dual and Multi-Class Share Structures in SV150 (~30% of SV150 have them. ~91% have sunset provisions).
(39:40) Shareholder Activism in SV150 (~8%) and impact of new SEC Universal Proxy Rules.
(44:24) Looking ahead, what key governance issues should SV150 companies be preparing for in the next few years? Climate disclosure rules (EU, CA, SEC, investor requirements, etc) and AI.
(47:00) Increase in antitrust and other regulatory enforcement. "We are in a high enforcement regulatory environment."
(49:24) Book that has greatly influenced his life:
(49:50) His professional mentors (WSGR):
(50:35) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by: "If you start right, it's easy to end right. But if you start wrong, it's very, very difficult to get on the right path and end right" by Joseph Smith.
(51:10) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.
(51:58) The living person he most admires: his parents.
Richard Blake is a partner at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati and the leader of the firm's public companies practice. He practices corporate and securities law with a focus on public company representation, corporate governance, and public offerings.
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
(0:00) Intro.
(1:36) About this podcast's sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.
(2:23) Start of interview.
(3:33) On the collapse of SVB and its impact to Silicon Valley and the VC industry.
(9:05) On the state of private markets. *Reference to Aileen Lee's post on Unicorn update (2013-2024).
(14:35) How VCs are approaching tough conversations on shutdowns, downrounds and/or recaps in this down market cycle. *Reference to Scott's book Secrets of Sand Hill Road: Venture Capital and How to Get It (2019).
(19:10) On the evolution of secondary markets (including founders taking secondaries) and the idea of staying private for longer ("SPL").
(24:15) On startup compensation practices (stock option vesting schedules, RSUs).
(26:21) On a16z's expansion to NYC (~80 employees) and internationally to London.
(28:52) On geopolitics challenges, including China.
(31:06) On the crypto industry (Web3) and its regulatory challenges.
(34:37) On AI as an investment thesis.
(35:30) On some of the novel corporate governance structures used by some leading AI companies (PBCs, LTBTs, etc). On the OpenAI board crisis.
(38:37) Fraud in private markets.
(41:44) On ESG and DEI in the venture-backed startup market. *Reference to a16z Cultural Leadership Fund and Talent x Opportunity (TXO). How LPs think about this, both in the US and abroad.
(44:45) On California as a tech hub and some of its "exodus".
(46:35) Corporate governance matters for late stage companies, independent directors and "overboarding" in the VC context.
Scott Kupor is an investing partner focused on growth-stage companies building in the bio and healthcare industries, manages the firm’s investor relations team, and is responsible for the firm’s growth initiatives.
You can follow Scott on social media at:
Twitter (X): @skupor
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottkupor/
You can follow Evan on social media at:
Twitter: @evanepstein
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/
Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/
__
You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:
Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod
__
Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License
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