What makes for effective and enduring green industrial policy? How can public and private investment mobilize to achieve the Paris Agreement’s 1.5°C goal? Can Trump undermine climate science and the global energy transition, or will the rest of the world carry on without the US? Which policy designs can drive equitable green growth, ensuring the energy transition benefits economically disadvantaged and indigenous communities?

Today’s guest, Mariana Mazzucato, is a Professor in the Economics of Innovation and Public Value at University College London and the Founding Director of the UCL Institute for Innovation & Public Purpose. An author of four influential books on shaping capitalism, growth, and economic policy for the public good, she advises governments worldwide on innovation-led inclusive and sustainable growth. She chairs several governmental and inter-governmental organizations and produces reports designed to shape economic policies, particularly in the developing world.

In these challenging times of economic upheaval, Mariana’s ideas offer valuable guidance for policymakers as they craft industrial strategies to advance the energy transition.

Heat pumps work almost like magic—delivering several times more heat energy than the electricity they require to run. Modern heat pumps are so efficient, they can even extract warmth from freezing temperatures, keeping buildings comfortable despite the cold outdoors.

With many policymakers seriously exploring ways they can accelerate heat pump adoption, we thought now is the perfect time to offer some specific and useful guidance on designing effective approaches for realizing this goal. Our guest today is Dr. Richard Lowes, a specialist in heating technology and policy with the Regulatory Assistance Project in Europe. He also co-chairs the Clean Heat Forum international policy network. Richard has advocated for heating policy since earning his doctorate in the subject from the University of Exeter a decade ago, advising the Scottish government’s heat decarbonization programme board, various UK parliamentary select committees, and serving in multiple roles within the UK government.

In this episode, we discuss why the energy transition requires us to fix leaky buildings, tradeoffs between energy efficiency upgrades and simply swapping out old boilers for heat pumps, the best policies to encourage heat pump adoption, and the measures available in Europe to support all these efforts.

What important trends are shaping the energy transition today? And what is the outlook for oil and gas demand?

In this conversation, Tim Gould of the International Energy Agency (IEA) returns to discuss key insights from the agency’s flagship annual report, the World Energy Outlook 2024. We consider the enormous implications of IEA’s view that global demand for all fossil fuels will peak and begin a slow decline within the next five years. To explore this, we take a closer look at the state of the oil and gas industry, comparing its expectations to what climate science and energy system modeling tell us about the future of fossil fuels. We also consider how the energy transition could reduce overall demand for fossil fuels, creating excess supply imbalances that reshape global markets and trade geopolitics.

Our discussion also touches on the IEA’s forecast that low-emission electricity sources like solar, wind, and nuclear will account for more than half of global power generation before 2030. Further, we explore the rising energy demand from data centers, shifting expectations for hydrogen, and the investments needed to keep clean energy growing at a pace that meets our climate targets.

This episode is the second in a miniseries about how the UK is transforming its energy system. If you missed Part One, featuring Adam Berman discussing the UK’s decarbonization progress, you can find it here.

In this conversation, Luke Ames Blackaby from Ofgem, the UK’s electricity and gas regulator, joins us to discuss how the agency is supporting technology development to meet the UK’s 2030 clean power and 2050 full decarbonization targets.

We explore a wide range of critical topics, including flexible electricity tariffs, cost-effective expansion of the transmission system for renewable energy, and adapting gas networks for hydrogen. Additionally, we cover integrating heat networks, leveraging electrified rail as a flexible demand asset, and using storage to manage variable renewable generation. Finally, we examine how regulations can evolve to accommodate emerging technologies like demand flexibility and optimize existing infrastructure.

This episode kicks off a new miniseries exploring how the UK is evolving its energy system through world-leading efforts to meet its decarbonization goals. In 2024, it closed its last coal-fired power plant and conducted its most successful Contract for Difference (CfD) auction yet, which attracted a diverse range of renewable energy projects—including more than enough offshore wind bids to make up for the lack of such projects in the 2023 auction.

The UK also launched an astonishingly ambitious effort to develop an economy-wide energy planning process for the entire country, conducted by the newly-established National Energy System Operator (or NESO). NESO produced its first report, providing essential guidance to all participants in the country’s energy system. Additionally, Great British Energy was created, which will make the British government a direct investor in renewable energy projects.

In this episode, we speak with Adam Berman, the Director of Policy and Advocacy at Energy UK, the nation’s energy industry trade group. He advocates for ways to speed up the UK’s journey to net-zero through enabling low-carbon investment in clean power generation. We review all of 2024’s developments in detail, and outline the path forward for the UK’s energy transition.

Why do most economic models consistently underestimate the speed of energy transition?

Our guest today, Doyne Farmer, believes he knows why.

Doyne is the director of the Complexity Economics program at the Oxford Martin School at Oxford University, the Chief Scientist at Macrocosm, a modeling shop specializing in complexity economics, and the author of the recent book Making Sense of Chaos—A Better Economics for a Better World.

In this conversation, Doyne argues that traditional equilibrium economics falls short at capturing the realities of a rapidly changing world. He explains how a new approach called complexity economics, using agent-based modeling, provides a more accurate picture of how economic actors actually behave that can give policymakers and investors better guidance for navigating an evolving economy. It also indicates that the energy transition and climate action are likely to develop much more quickly than current forecasts suggest.

The outlook for energy transition in the US may feel bleak at the moment, but Europe continues to make significant progress. So if you’re ready for a little good news and thoughtful conversation about the energy transition in Europe, this one’s for you!

Our guest in this episode is Jan Rosenow, a veteran European energy observer, analyst, and policy advisor with extensive experience in energy regulation and market design. As Vice President of the Regulatory Assistance Project (RAP), he supports their European team with a focus on power market design, energy regulation, electrification, the gas transition and energy efficiency. Jan’s resumé includes roles at the World Economic Forum, the International Energy Agency, the European Commission, the European Parliament, the UK’s Office of Gas and Electricity Markets, and the British House of Commons, among many others. He is also an accomplished academic who has contributed extensively to hundreds of peer-reviewed articles, technical reports and opinion pieces on energy and sustainability.

In this episode, we explore where Europe’s energy policies are delivering results and where it is still falling short. We discuss the enormous need to improve building energy efficiency across the continent and how electrifying heating systems can help. Jan also explains why balancing electricity and gas prices is key to supporting the energy transition. And Chris offers a few thoughts on how the re-election of Donald Trump might impact energy transition in the years ahead.

Nuclear power is “having a moment.” Frequently in the news, it is hailed by proponents as a critical part of decarbonizing our economy and meeting rising power demand. But does nuclear truly have a role to play in the energy transition?

The fact is that nuclear power plants are only built when they have significant government backing. Around the world, the private sector avoids these projects unless governments take all the risk, and offer extensive financial support—below-market loans, grants, and subsidies—as well as unlimited technical expertise, personnel, research, and supply chain support.

This raises the question: Why do governments insist on pursuing nuclear power when it has continually proven to be the most expensive, risky, and slowest way to generate power?

Our guest this episode, M.V. Ramana, has conducted extensive research to uncover the reasons behind the enduring support for nuclear power. A professor at the University of British Columbia, Ramana brings a wealth of expertise from his career in nuclear physics, nuclear weapons, nuclear power plants (including SMRs), and public policy on international security and energy supply.

His recent book, Nuclear is not the Solution: The Folly of Atomic Power in the Age of Climate Change, delivers a comprehensive and unflinching critique of nuclear energy as a meaningful climate solution. In this conversation, we discuss the roles of government, industry, and politics in perpetuating nuclear power, and whether its future is compatible with the energy transition.

The energy transition is making good progress on several fronts. Renewables are displacing fossil fueled electricity generation. Heat pumps are decarbonizing space heating. Electric vehicles of all sizes are replacing oil-powered cars.

But the world’s industrial decarbonization is really just getting started. Industry generates roughly one-third of all human-caused greenhouse gas emissions, so solutions for this sector are critical for the energy transition.

We have made faster progress in decarbonizing electricity, transportation, and heating because it’s easier to replace a handful of dirty technologies with clean alternatives. Decarbonizing industry, however, is a far more complex task, involving thousands of materials, processes, and end products. That’s why they used to be called “hard-to-decarbonize” sectors.

Fortunately, there are clear starting points. More than half of industrial emissions come from steel, cement, and chemicals—which we know how to decarbonize. And there are solutions on the horizon for the rest of industry too.

In this conversation, Jeffrey Rissman, Senior Director of Industry at the San Francisco based think-tank Energy Innovation, walks us through each of the industrial sectors and the solutions for each one. Jeff is the author of a recent book titled Zero-Carbon Industry: Transformative Technologies and Policies to Achieve Sustainable Prosperity, and after listening to this episode, you’ll know just about everything you need to know about industrial decarbonization.

The energy transition in China is a complex picture. China is both the world’s largest annual greenhouse gas emitter and the largest market for electric vehicles. It’s the largest user of coal, and it deploys more wind and solar every year than the rest of the world combined. It’s both the largest worry in terms of rising CO2 concentrations, and the biggest hope for curbing emissions.

But in syndicated media, this complex reality tends to be boiled down to old tropes, generalized and unhelpful characterizations, and correct but irrelevant data, instead of any useful context and synthesis.

So you might be forgiven for not knowing that power sector emissions in China actually fell in the second quarter of 2024, and China’s CO2 emissions could be close to a peak in its CO2 emissions, which means the world probably is too.

The reporting on India and the rest of Southeast Asia is even worse, if not nonexistent.

So we are very pleased to welcome back Australian energy analyst Tim Buckley to the show. We sat down in person in Sydney for an hour and a half conversation about the trends and the data in all of those countries, as well as their trade relationships with Australia. And we begin to explore the potential for Australia to use its abundant and cheap wind and solar resources to produce green hydrogen, then use it to upgrade the ores and other materials that it exports to Asia and beyond.

After listening to this episode, we hope you’ll have a much better idea of the reality of the energy transition in Asia and Australia.

Chris travels to Australia and interviews Giles Parkinson, a longtime journalist and observer of the energy transition Down Under.