Jonathan Levin is an academic economist who now runs one of the most influential universities in the world. He tells Steve how he saved Comcast a billion dollars, why he turned down Steve’s unusual pitch to come to the University of Chicago, and why being a nice guy makes him a better college president.

• SOURCE:
  • Jonathan Levin, president of Stanford University.  

• RESOURCES:
  • "Income Segregation and Intergenerational Mobility Across Colleges in the United States," by Raj Chetty, John N Friedman, Emmanuel Saez, Nicholas Turner, and Danny Yagan (The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2020).
  • "Jonathan Levin: The Most Recent John Bates Clark Medal Winner," by Steve Levitt (Freakonomics Blog, 2011).
  • "Winning Play in Spectrum Auctions," by Jeremy Bulow, Jonathan Levin, and Paul Milgrom (NBER Working Paper, 2009).
  • "Information and Competition in U.S. Forest Service Timber Auctions," by Susan Athey and Jonathan Levin (Journal of Political Economy, 2001).

• EXTRAS:
  • Vintage Pokémon card pack Instagram video, by Tyler Thrasher (2025).
  • "Higher Education Is Broken. Can It Be Fixed?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023).
  • "How Much Are the Right Friends Worth?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022).

Sarah Hart investigates the mathematical structures underlying musical compositions and literature. Using examples from Monteverdi to Lewis Carroll, Sarah explains to Steve how math affects how we hear music and understand stories.   

• SOURCE:
  • Sarah Hart, professor emerita of mathematics at the University of London.

• RESOURCES:
  • Once Upon a Prime: The Wondrous Connections Between Mathematics and Literature, by Sarah Hart (2023).
  • "Ahab's Arithmetic: The Mathematics of Moby-Dick," by Sarah B. Hart (Journal of Humanistic Mathematics, 2021).
  • "Online Lecture: The Mathematics of Musical Composition," by Sarah Hart (Gresham College, 2020).
  • Black Mirror: Bandersnatch, film (2018).
  • The Luminaries: A Novel, by Eleanor Catton (2013).
  • Not Quite What I Was Planning: Six-Word Memoirs by Writers Famous and Obscure, edited by Rachel Fershleiser and Larry Smith (2008).
  • Les Revenentes, by Georges Perec (1972).
  • A Void, by Georges Perec (1969).
  • Cent Mille Milliards de Poèmes, by Raymond Queneau (1961).
  • Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There, by Lewis Carroll (1871).
  • Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll (1865).
  • OuLiPo.

• EXTRAS:
  • "The Joy of Math With Sarah Hart," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023).
  • "Mathematician Sarah Hart on Why Numbers are Music to Our Ears," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).

Sarah Stein Greenberg runs Stanford’s d.school, which teaches design as a mode of problem solving. She and Steve talk about what makes her field different from other academic disciplines, how to approach hard problems, and why brainstorms are so annoying.

• SOURCE:
  • Sarah Stein Greenberg, executive director of the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford University.

• RESOURCES:
  • Creative Acts for Curious People: How to Think, Create, and Lead in Unconventional Ways, by Sarah Stein Greenberg (2021).
  • Noora Health.
  • Civilla.
  • Substantial.
  • Rare.
  • Sarah Stein Greenberg wildlife photography.

• EXTRAS:
  • "Feeling Sound and Hearing Color," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Why Are Boys and Men in Trouble?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "What’s Impacting American Workers?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Richard Dawkins on God, Genes, and Murderous Baby Cuckoos," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "The World’s Most Controversial Ornithologist," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "How PETA Made Radical Ideas Mainstream," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Pay Attention! (Your Body Will Thank You)," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "How to Have Great Conversations," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Suleika Jaouad’s Survival Mechanisms," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Daron Acemoglu on Economics, Politics, and Power," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Nobel Laureate Claudia Goldin on 'Greedy Work' and the Wage Gap," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023).
  • "A Rockstar Chemist and Her Cancer-Attacking 'Lawn Mower,'" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022).
  • "Daniel Kahneman on Why Our Judgment is Flawed — and What to Do About It," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).
  • "Why Is Richard Thaler Such a ****ing Optimist?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).

In her book, Rumbles, medical historian Elsa Richardson explores the history of the human gut. She talks with Steve about dubious medical practices, gruesome tales of survival, and the things that medieval doctors may have gotten right.

• SOURCE:
  • Elsa Richardson, medical historian at the University of Strathclyde.

• RESOURCES:
  • Rumbles: A Curious History of the Gut: The Secret Story of the Body's Most Fascinating Organ, by Elsa Richardson (2024).
  • Michael Levitt retirement speech (2024).
  • "Was There Really a Hawthorne Effect at the Hawthorne Plant? An Analysis of the Original Illumination Experiments," by Steven D. Levitt and John A. List (NBER Working Paper, 2009).
  • "Floating Stools — Flatus versus Fat," by Michael D. Levitt and William C. Duane (The New England Journal of Medicine, 1972).
  • "Factors Influencing Pulmonary Methane Excretion in Man," by John H. Bond, Rolf R. Engel, and Michael D. Levitt (Journal of Experimental Medicine, 1971).
  • The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals, by Charles Darwin (1872).
  • The Levitt Lab Founding School Leader, job listing.
  • The Levitt Lab, information page.

• EXTRAS:
  • "An Update on the Khan World School," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023).
  • “Is This the Future of High School?” by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022).
  • “Sal Khan: ‘If It Works for 15 Cousins, It Could Work for a Billion People,'” by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).
  • "The Power of Poop," by Freakonomics Radio (2011).

How psychologist Dan Gilbert went from high school dropout to Harvard professor, found the secret of joy, and inspired Steve Levitt's divorce.

• SOURCE:
  • Daniel Gilbert, professor of psychology at Harvard University.

• RESOURCES:
  • "What the Data Says (and Doesn’t Say) About Crime in the United States," by John Gramlich (Pew Research Center, 2020).
  • Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress, by Stephen Pinker (2018).
  • "Mistakenly Seeking Solitude," by Nicholas Epley and Juliana Schroeder (Journal of Experimental Psychology, 2014).
  • "Just Think: The Challenges of the Disengaged Mind," by Timothy D. Wilson, David A. Reinhard, Erin C. Westgate, Daniel T. Gilbert, Nicole Ellerbeck, Cheryl Hahn, Casey L. Brown, and Adi Shaked (Science, 2013).
  • "The End of History Illusion," by Jordi Quoidbach, Daniel T. Gilbert, and Timothy D. Wilson (Science, 2013).
  • Happy Money: The Science of Smarter Spending, by Elizabeth Dunn (2013).
  • "If Money Doesn't Make You Happy Then You Probably Aren't Spending It Right," by Elizabeth W. Dunn, Daniel T. Gilbert, and Timothy D. Wilson (Journal of Consumer Psychology, 2011).
  • This Emotional Life, by Daniel Gilbert (2010).
  • Stumbling on Happiness, by Dan Gilbert (2006).
  • "Affective Forecasting," by Timothy D. Wilson and Daniel T. Gilbert (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 2003).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Drawing from Life (and Death)," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023).
  • "Who Gives the Worst Advice?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).
  • "Sendhil Mullainathan Thinks Messing Around Is the Best Use of Your Time," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).
  • "Am I Boring You?" by Freakonomics Radio (2015).

Moon Duchin is a math professor at Cornell University whose theoretical work has practical applications for voting and democracy. Why is striving for fair elections so difficult? 

• SOURCE:
  • Moon Duchin, professor of mathematics at Cornell University.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Gerrymandering: The Origin Story," by Neely Tucker (Timeless: Stories from the Library of Congress, 2024).
  • "Redistricting for Proportionality," by Gabe Schoenbach and Moon Duchin (The Forum, 2023).
  • "The Atlas Of Redistricting," by Aaron Bycoffe, Ella Koeze, David Wasserman, and Julia Wolfe (FiveThirtyEight, 2018).
  • "In a Comically Drawn Pennsylvania District, the Voters Are Not Amused," by Trip Gabriel (The New York Times, 2018).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Why Are Boys and Men in Trouble?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "Is This the Future of High School?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2022).

The director of the Hayden Planetarium is one of the best science communicators of our time. He and Steve talk about his role in reclassifying Pluto, bad teachers, and why economics isn’t a science.

• SOURCE:
  • Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of the Hayden Planetarium.

• RESOURCES:
  • Starry Messenger: Cosmic Perspectives on Civilization, by Neil deGrasse Tyson (2022).
  • “The Universe and Beyond, with Stephen Hawking,” by Neil deGrasse Tyson (StarTalk, 2018).
  • The Pluto Files: The Rise and Fall of America's Favorite Planet, by Neil deGrasse Tyson (2009).
  • "Pluto's Not a Planet? Only in New York," by Kenneth Chang (The New York Times, 2001).
  • The Sky Is Not the Limit: Adventures of an Urban Astrophysicist, by Neil deGrasse Tyson (2000).
  • Merlin's Tour of the Universe, by Neil deGrasse Tyson (1989).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Richard Dawkins on God, Genes, and Murderous Baby Cuckoos," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).

He’s the chief creative officer of Pixar, and the Academy Award-winning director of Soul, Inside Out, Up, and Monsters, Inc. Pete Docter and Steve talk about Pixar’s scrappy beginnings, why wrong turns are essential, and the movie moment that changed Steve’s life.

• SOURCE:
  • Pete Docter, chief creative officer of Pixar.

• RESOURCES:
  • "‘Inside Out 2’ Becomes the Highest-Grossing Animated Film of All Time Globally," (The Walt Disney Company, 2024).
  • Soul, film (2020).
  • The Red Turtle, film (2016).
  • Inside Out, film (2015).
  • Up, film (2009).
  • Monsters, Inc., film (2001).
  • Toy Story, film (1995).
  • Paper Moon, film (1973).

• EXTRA:
  • "Walt Hickey Wants to Track Your Eyeballs," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).

David Eagleman is a Stanford neuroscientist, C.E.O., television host, and founder of the Possibilianism movement. He and Steve talk about how wrists can substitute for ears, why we dream, and what Fisher-Price magnets have to do with neuroscience.

• SOURCE:
  • David Eagleman, professor of cognitive neuroscience at Stanford University and C.E.O. of Neosensory.

• RESOURCES:
  • Livewired: The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain, by David Eagleman (2020).
  • "Why Do We Dream? A New Theory on How It Protects Our Brains," by David Eagleman and Don Vaughn (TIME, 2020).
  • "Prevalence of Learned Grapheme-Color Pairings in a Large Online Sample of Synesthetes," by Nathan Witthoft, Jonathan Winawer, and David Eagleman (PLoS One, 2015).
  • Sum: Forty Tales from the Afterlives, by David Eagleman (2009).
  • The vOICe app.
  • Neosensory.

• EXTRAS:
  • "What’s Impacting American Workers?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "This Is Your Brain on Podcasts," by Freakonomics Radio (2016).

Boys and men are trending downward in education, employment, and mental health. Richard Reeves, author of the book Of Boys and Men, has some solutions that don’t come at the expense of women and girls. Steve pushes him to go further.

• SOURCE:
  • Richard Reeves, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, president of the American Institute for Boys and Men, and author.

• RESOURCES:
  • Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do About It, by Richard Reeves (2022).
  • "The Crisis of Men and Boys," by David Brooks (The New York Times, 2022).
  • Dream Hoarders: How the American Upper Middle Class Is Leaving Everyone Else in the Dust, Why That Is a Problem, and What to Do About It, by Richard Reeves (2017).
  • "An Empirical Analysis of the Gender Gap in Mathematics," by Roland Fryer and Steven Levitt (American Economic Journal: Applied Economics, 2010).
  • John Stuart Mill: Victorian Firebrand, by Richard Reeves (2007)

• EXTRA:
  • "What Is the Future of College — and Does It Have Room for Men? (Update)," by Freakonomics Radio (2024).

Daron Acemoglu was just awarded the 2024 Nobel Prize in economics. Earlier this year, he and Steve talked about his groundbreaking research on what makes countries succeed or fail.

• SOURCES:
  • Daron Acemoglu, professor of economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

• RESOURCES:
  • The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024.
  • Power and Progress: Our Thousand-Year Struggle Over Technology and Prosperity, by Daron Acemoglu and Simon Johnson (2023).
  • "Economists Pin More Blame on Tech for Rising Inequality," by Steve Lohr (The New York Times, 2022).
  • "America’s Slow-Motion Wage Crisis: Four Decades of Slow and Unequal Growth," by John Schmitt, Elise Gould, and Josh Bivens (Economic Policy Institute, 2018).
  • "A Machine That Made Stockings Helped Kick Off the Industrial Revolution," by Sarah Laskow (Atlas Obscura, 2017).
  • "The Long-Term Jobs Killer Is Not China. It’s Automation," by Claire Cain Miller (The New York Times, 2016).
  • Why Nations Fail: The Origins of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty, by Daron Acemoglu and James A. Robinson (2012).
  • "The Colonial Origins of Comparative Development: An Empirical Investigation," by Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson (American Economic Review, 2001).
  • "Learning about Others' Actions and the Investment Accelerator," by Daron Acemoglu (The Economic Journal, 1993).
  • "A Friedman Doctrine — The Social Responsibility of Business Is to Increase Its Profits," by Milton Friedman (The New York Times, 1970).

• EXTRAS:
  • "What’s Impacting American Workers?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2024).
  • "'My God, This Is a Transformative Power,'" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2023).
  • "New Technologies Always Scare Us. Is A.I. Any Different?" by Freakonomics Radio (2023).
  • "How to Prevent Another Great Depression," by Freakonomics Radio (2020).
  • "Is Income Inequality Inevitable?" by Freakonomics Radio (2017).