Ep. 16 - Open Mike Eagle “What if Somebody Knocked Down the Pyramids?”

Hello, hello!  This week, we sat with the great Open Mike Eagle, to talk rap, comedy, architecture, and mental health for touring musicians! I first met Mike a few years ago, when Aimee and I, along with Mike, were guests on a PAUL F. TOMPKINS show in Los Angeles, and we had such an amazing time hanging and talking with him at the show, that we stayed in touch. Now, I assumed that Mike knew Paul in the way that we comedy-adjacent musicians ALL know our comedian friends - the exact context in which we were meeting that day - guests on someone’s show - that’s how it works!  Hell, that’s how AIMEE and I really got to know each other.  HOWEVER, Mike has a little bit of a different story of how he came into Paul’s orbit, and I thought it was pretty hilarious.  I’ll say no more here, but it gets revealed in the course of this interview.

I’ve loved his music for a long time - he’s an incredible lyricist, a much better singer than he thinks he is, and wildly creative in about fifteen other ways as well.  One little Easter Egg that I’m proud of, is that he and Aimee were tied at 60 in the Village Voice’s Pazz & Jop poll for 2017, and I was just below them at 61.  That was a nice cluster to see.

*A CAVEAT* - there was a slight buzz on some of the tracks that I could NOT get rid of.  I hope it’s not too distracting.

LINKS:

For music, merch, and news: MikeEagle.Net

Mike’s recent Tiny Desk set. I include these often because I, personally, think it’s cool to see how people handle the constraints of the space - it really brings out people’s strengths.. *I* think; and I love this one by Mike.  (Also peep our mutual friend, Jordan Katz, on trumpet, etc. in this!)

One of the tracks off Brick Body Kids Still Daydream, “Hymnal.” I just like this one a lot, and IT features an exquisite verse by Sammus, who I also love.

And here’s an example of what Mike does for every episode of The New Negroes” - Mike & MF Doom, “Police Myself” 

FIND US:

@Mike_Eagle

@AimeeMann

@TedLeo

@artofprocesspod

@MaxFunHQ

Ep. 15 - Kim Gordon “Is Art Really All Design Now?”

Very happy to bring you another interview in a different kitchen - this time, the mighty Kim Gordon’s (kitchen) (and interview)!

I fairly idolized Kim for her presence in Sonic Youth, but I see her more now as an inspiration in how to live a creative life when life keeps getting longer.  I was privileged to attend the opening of her Wreaths show in LA a couple of years ago, not long after Aimee and I were lucky to catch an early live set of Body/Head, right around the time Kim was beginning to write her BOOK, etc., etc., you get the picture.  And I have trouble sticking to a podcast schedule.

Anyway, Kim’s a legend for good reason, and I thank her for sitting down with us and I’m glad we DIDN’T talk a ton about music, but more about life and her return to her first love, the visual arts.

Some links:

An example of the wreath art (that you can *purchase*) on Artsy.com: “Wreath Painting Northampton Blue” 2011

An article in the Pittsburgh City Paper about the Warhol museum exhibit, which, in classic timing for this podcast, as of the moment I’m writing this, literally closed two days ago: “Kim Gordon's Lo-Fi Glamour exhibit at The Andy Warhol Museum is bold, crude, and dangerous”

Great footage of early-ish Sonic Youth (1983), live in Poitiers, Fr., with Kim on vocals.

Letterman performance of “Bull in the Heather” 

Free Kitten’s “What’s Fair” live at CB’s in 1994 

Body/Head live & P’fork interview, St. Vitus, NYC 2013 (This is the show Aimee and I happened to be at, coincidentally)

And one of my all-time favorite’s of Kim’s, “Shadow of a Doubt”

Find us:

@KimletGordon 

@AimeeMann

@TedLeo

@artofprocesspod

@MaxFunHQ

Ep. 14 - Chad Clark “This is Why it’s Good to be Transparent!”

Apologies for the hiatus, folks. We are BACK and I’ll be attempting to turn the next few episodes out on a weekly basis to get us back on track

In this episode, we start off with some rhombus talk and celebrate GETTING OLD.

THEN WE GET TO CHAD CLARKE - practically the ideal guest for our concept. I’ve always admired Chard and his work.  I’ve always seen him as an incredibly inventive person with an ear for melody and orchestration AND a fearless vision for experimentation.  When I first that heard his band, Beauty Pill, had written and recorded an album AS A MUSEUM INSTALLATION, in full view of passersby, I was floored, and thus, when we started this podcast, I knew we had to have him on to discuss that (and, of course, many other things). 

It’s hard to express how intense the record-making process is, interpersonally, under normal circumstances.  To do it in public seems, to me, fun in some ways, and downright terrifying in others.  Aimee and I have always put a premium on mental health and relationship maintenance, and making a point of trying to listen, be open, and help each other get over our own blockages in writing and in the studio, as well as while touring.  Imagine being crammed into a car/van/bus with a group of varyingly stable “creatives,” every day, day in and day out, year after year. That’s our life; and sometimes it’s flowing and beautiful, sometimes it’s grating and grim (sometimes all of the above at once).  I just bring this up because I want to note how lovingly Chad speaks about his bandmates, even when describing the inevitable chafing that would periodically happen during the process of recording said album, “Beauty Pill Describes Things as They Are.”  It speaks to the purity of his intentions, the kindness of his heart, and to something that I think Aimee and I have treasured as we’ve gotten older - finding the right people to work with and creating the space for them to do their work. It takes time, along with all the personal growth one has to go through, but boy is it worth it.  Just some of the things this episode keeps me thinking about.

I hope you’ll find it as sweet and interesting as we did.

Our sponsor for this episode is WARBY PARKER.  Great, stylish glasses with quality frames at remarkably affordable prices! They’re running a free, no obligation, try-on at home program for our listeners at  warbyparker.com/ART

Here’s the official video for “Afrikaner Barista” from the album.

And the band live at NPR’s Tiny Desk series.

AND FINALLY: a fave from Chad’s old band, Smart Went Crazy: “DC Will Do That to You.” 

Find us:

@beautypill

@aimeemann

@tedleo

@artofprocesspod

@MaxFunHQ

Fitting that these notes come to you today from what has become a liminal space between “home” and “tour” for me.  That space is, of course, “New Jersey,” and it’s fitting because it was from here (this very house, in fact) in 1987, that I wrote a letter to our guest, Ian MacKaye.  Ian’s new band, Fugazi, was asking people to rethink their relationships to each other in the space of “the pit” and consider not slam dancing/moshing.  This was a radical proposition back then, but I understood it, and I respected it.  I think coming from a break dancing background made the idea of a more inclusive dancing aspect to punk shows appealing to me.  What I didn’t respect, and what prompted me to write the letter, was seeing a bunch of people who had traveled with the band up from DC to The Anthrax in Norwalk, Ct., physically grabbing people and stopping them from slamming/moshing.  It seemed like just another form of policing and fascism to me.  It was an angry letter.

Ian wrote me back - he agreed with me and assured me that the people doing this were not under instructions from the band and he didn’t agree with the physical policing of the space either, and that was that.

We reconnected in person when I moved to DC about five years later, and Ian remembered the exchange.  He SAYS he kept the letter, and I live under a standing threat that it will be produced for all to read if our arguments ever get TOO argumentative.  And as I sit here thinking about this now, I realize it’s one of many things I’d like to revisit with him, because I wonder how our stances on that issue may have evolved.  I’ve certainly spent a lot of time on the edges of pits since then, attempting to take the blows so people less willing (or able) to can just watch the bands.  I’ve jumped off my own stages to stop fights.  Would I do it to stop unruly pit action these days?  At MY shows these days, it pretty much never happens, but I might.  You take a responsibility for the space when you take the stage - it’s a responsibility that Ian MacKaye still takes seriously, and his is an example that I’m glad I’ve had in my life.

Other things we discuss that I’d like to expand on and encourage our listeners to think more about are:

1. Characters and masks - I keep thinking about this idea of what’s “real” and what’s not, and I’m thinking more about who gets to define that and what it means to different cultures.  Yes, as we discuss in the interview, one can see how a certain type of person uses masks and characters to AVOID responsibility, but what about the idea of being able to self-create one’s identity?  What about drag and camp?  Glam and goth?  What about when society tells you you’re NOT “real” what then?

2. Well… maybe just the one thing is good for now - I’ve already gone on too long.  Feel free to tweet at us if anything else strikes you!

Also, I realize that I said Dischord started in the 70s - I was thinking the Teen Idles 7” came out in 78/79, but it was, of course, 1980.

SPONSOR!

Our sponsor for this episode is MYRO - natural, plant-based deodorant subscription with a reusable capsule dispenser! I love it. mymyro.com/ART use promo code “ART” for 50% off your first order.

As promised, here are some MUSIC LINKS:

TEEN IDLES “I Drink Milk” (1980) 

BAD BRAINS Live at CBGB 1979 Hard to overstate how important these people were to many of us, especially as an all black band in an increasingly white scene. Check the slickest move ever as HR avoids a flung beer can (or ashtray?) with a flick of his head at 8:43. Legendary. 

MINOR THREAT Live at Buff Hall, Camden, NJ 1982 

VOID “Who Are You?”  One of my favorite songs of all time. Hilarious to hear Ian say they thought they sounded like Ratt, and yet… now that I know that… I kind of get it!

THE EVENS “Around the Corner” (Stroudsburg, Pa. public library 2005) Also want to give props here to Amy Farina, who should have her own episode at some point.  She's and incredible talent, and was my very first collaborator in what we called "The Pharmacists," back circa 1996!

FUGAZI “Suggestion” with Amy Pickering on vocals (DC, 1991)  Given what Aimee and I talk about in the intro, re. women’s roles in rock song lyrics of a certain era, I wanted to include this version.  It was really important when Ian sang this.  It shook the earth when Amy Pickering stepped into that space and sang it.

EMBRACE “Give me Back” (1987)  I’ve got the receipts. This song is about process.

Find us:

@artofprocesspod

@aimeemann

@tedleo

@maxfunhq

Ep. 12 - Jean Grae "I Need to Create the Things That are Still Unseen"

It's JEAN GRAE, folks.  Hip Hop artist, writer, actor, singer, thinker... puppeteer? Jean was born in South Africa, raised in New York City, and makes so so many many good good things.

IN THE INTRODUCTION, Aimee and I tackle some technical issues and try to figure out what a polymath is and why it might be more fun to say my whole name?

IN THE INTERVIEW we start out with naps and animals, but eventually get to talking with Jean about her early life dancing, influences, from her parents (musicians both, links below) to Jim Henson, sci-fi murders, collaborating as a lone wolf, and why representation matters.  Along the way, of course, discuss past and current projects, INCLUDING the one-woman show, "Jeanius," that Jean's putting on at Joe's Pub in NYC this July THAT YOU SHOULD GO TO, AND a scripted series she's writing, directing, composing the music for, hosting, and starring in, called "That's Not How You Do That," based on the series of instructional albums for adults, of the same name, she put out a couple of years ago. I am told there are indeed puppets.

Links to all of that and MORE, right here:

"Jeanius" at Joe's Pub 

Jean Grae on Bandcamp 

Jean and Quelle Chris' "Everything's Fine" 

Abdullah Ibrahim, "Mannenberg" 

Sathima Bea Benjamin, "Africa" 

@JeanGreasy 

@AimeeMann 

@tedleo 

@artofprocesspod 

@MaxFunHQ 

WE'RE BACK. A number of bumps in the road on the way to getting the last episode out resulted in the last episode becoming THIS episode; and THIS episode, is the Emily Nussbaum episode!

Emily is the former editor of Nerve, writer for Slate and the New York Times, Culture Editor of New York magazine, where she created the Approval Index (where I was over the moon to have once achieved a spot in the Lowbrow/Brilliant quadrant); current Television Critic at the New Yorker (that's three of the five major periodicals with New York in the very title); she is a Pulitzer Prize winner and has a new book coming out called, "I Like to Watch: Arguing my Way Through the TV Revolution."

This conversation was long and good.  We covered deadlines, miniseries, "First Draft Men," soaps, the evolutions, upheavals, and regressions of television, criticism as art?, and much much more.

In fact, this episode WOULD'VE been longer had not one of those aforementioned bumps in the road been a digital failure that made a section of talk unrecoverable.  It was when we started to discuss the amazing "PEN15" (on Hulu); but I wound up dropping us back in (after the second break) to the middle of that section because I felt like to lose it entirely would also have been to lose where the conversation went from there, re. women and storytelling in the industry, and I didn't want to lose that.

It's not hard to follow, but if a stray reference to PEN15 throws you off for a second, that's why.

Our sponsors for this episode are:

Casper Mattress - go to casper.com/art and enter "art" at checkout for $50 off select mattresses!

Storyworth - visit storyworth.com/art for $20 off your subscription!

Order Emily Nussbaum's "I Like to Watch: Arguing my Way Through the TV Revolution" at emilynussbaum.com

Find us all at:

@tedleo

@aimeemann

@artofprocesspod

@emilynussbaum

@MaxFunHQ

Ep. 10 - EMIL FERRIS "Benevolent Vampires and the Starfish Army"

CW: childhood sexual assault

Welcome back! We have not actually been away for longer than our usual bi-weekly hiatus, but it feels like we have.  IN THIS EPISODE we sit down in her home city of Chicago with artist and graphic novelist Emil Ferris.  Emil's book "My Favorite Thing is Monsters" affected both Aimee and me deeply; SO deeply that, at our mutual friend, designer Gail Marowitz's suggestion, I was lucky enough to be able to enlist Emil into doing the art for my own last album, The Hanged Man (which was also, by the way, under Gail's brilliant design supervision). 

Our conversation ranges from subtle energy and a race of benevolent vampires, to how blockages and limitations in one area of life can lead to deeper understanding and greater heights in others.

As mentioned, there is a self-imposed content warning on this one because we do delve a little bit into childhood trauma, specifically, sexual abuse.  In accordance with MY experience and ever-changing perspective and standards CURRENTLY, it's not that heavy, but I realize that we're all wherever we are with this sort of thing, and I want to give you, the listener, the opportunity to opt out of approximately minutes 36:30 to 40:00.  This is audibly mentioned in the episode as well.

There's also some light goofing about cigarette smoking and alcohol intake, a little earlier on, so I want to put up a flag about that for you as well.

I also want to link you to some resources, should you need them, and will do so below; both to RAINN, and an organization specifically geared toward helping men through this, called 1in6.

Trust me, though - there is more light and joy in this episode than what I'm describing may make it sound like here, and we hope you'll come out of it a member of the Starfish Army, under Commandante Aimee Mann, and, I guess… Subcommandante… me, with… Special Advisor Emil Ferris?  I don't know. I think you get to choose your own rank.  We have to figure that part out.

Volume TWO of "My Favorite Thing is Monsters" is due out soon, so please keep eyes peeled for that, and enjoy the show!

LINKS:

Emil Ferris online

"My Favorite Thing is Monsters" 

"The Hanged Man" (at Gail Marowitz's design site!) 

"Sunrise," the silent film we talk about on Youtube

RAINN 

1in6 

Find Us:

@Emilferrisdraws

@AimeeMann 

@TedLeo 

@artofprocesspod 

@MaxFunHQ 

Ep. 9 - Eli Attie "A Constituency of One"

This episode, we're talking to Eli Attie - speechwriter for NYC Mayor David Dinkins, Missouri Congressman Dick Gephardt, and Vice President Al Gore; AS WELL AS a writer for the West Wing, House, Rosewood, For the People, and others!  He gives us some great insight into what makes for good and bad political speechwriting, and how it dovetails and differs with dramatic writing.

The overarching theme of the episode is the "constituency of one" - who is your actual audience, who are you trying to please… Something we've all become a lot more familiar with in the political realm these past two years.

A couple of other things that get mentioned that I just want to address really quickly:

1. My Medicare plan would not suck.

2. It's not that hard for ME to see Aimee converting to Catholicism.

3. It's true - Air Force 2 IS, in fact, a tiny fraction of the size of Air Force 1, AND, apparently, there's no booze served on it!

I also really wanted to include some examples of the speeches Eli's worked on, but it's frustratingly hard to find anything by former Mayor of New York City, David Dinkins, NYC's first and only black mayor, from his time in office (the time of Eli's tenure as speechwriter), but I did find a video of election night coverage, that adds a lot of context and includes his concession speech, which you can find at around the 24:00 minute mark.  Incidentally, this is the night that he lost to a man I cannot say enough bad things about, current cable news ghoul, Rudy Giuliani.  I'd forgotten how contentious this loss was, and it's interesting to watch this speech, given what Eli mentions about being gracious to the point of making oneself nauseous, aaaand unfortunately, it gets cut short in the video.  Check it out here.

Here's Dick Gephardt handing the gavel, and the role of Speaker of the House, to Newt Gingrich.

Gore's concession speech (madder about this now than I was back then, and I was mad back then.

Visit our sponsor for this episode, Casper Mattresses, and get $50.00 off by entering the promo code "ART" at casper.com/art

Find us on Twitter:

@artodprocesspod

@AimeeMann

@TedLeo

@EliAttie

@MaxFunHQ

Ep. 8 - Eric White "Usually it's the Opposite and it's Terrible"

Another harsh corporate takedown by your hosts in the intro!

Extreme temperatures misremebered!

And artist Eric White! 

We talk about music's influence on his painting, sleep deprivation, the bolt of lightning, and the value of having an outside eye to help edit.  Links to Eric's work, and a couple of other artists that are mentioned, below.

Links:

Eric White on the web.

Eric on working with Tyler the Creator for his recent album cover.

Gallery shows at Grimm galleries in NYC this past fall, now up in Brussels and Amsterdam.

LP cover series.

Peter Blake "On the Balcony."

Gee Vaucher's Crass art.

The Art of Process on Twitter: @artofprocesspod 

This episode is sponsored in part by Care/of, a monthly subscription vitamin service. for 50% off your first month, go to takecareof.com and enter the code PROCESS50 at check out!

WEEK TWO OF THE MAXIMUM FUN PLEDGE DRIVE!

In this episode, we sat down with "Money Mark," Mark Nishita, musician, inventor, producer, etc.  We touch on everything from being a middle child, to the Chinese Exclusion Act, piano rolls, and the macho/privileged side of crate digging for break beats with the Beastie Boys.  A couple of things that don't necessarily NEED explaining, but that I will anyway, are that:

1. Mark references a panel that he and I were on at South by Southwest in 2018. It was broadly about surviving and adapting as an artist in the changing business/media/technological environment, and I found his contributions to the discussion to be smart, inspiring, and challenging. I think I immediately texted Aimee and suggested we interview him for the podcast.

2. In our introduction, I started down a path of bringing up a song about music that I actually LIKE, before we got sidetracked down Main St. into Seegerville.  The song I was going to bring up is "Geno," by Dexy's Midnight Runners.  This was doubly relevant in that it has recently been a hot topic of conversation among a number friends and other podcast hosts that Aimee feels that, in her life, she has heard "Come on Eileen" enough times to warrant not really wanting to ever hear it again.  This news came out on an episode of Judge John Hodgman the same week that I was performing in a Dexy's Midnight Runners tribute band at the Bell House in Brooklyn, and I very much enjoyed singing "Come on Eileen."

Links to all of that AND MORE (except the Seeger songs, because... come on):

Money Mark dot com

Money Mark "Radiate Nothing" (iTunes link)

Earthquaker Devices video with Mark in his studio (where we also recorded this interview) with his inventions, including piano roll manipulation

Dexy's Midnight Runners "Geno," on Top of the Pops

Become a member of Maiximum Fun

Ep. 6 - Rhea Butcher “A Weird Flesh Skeleton (and the Maximum Fun Pledge Drive)”

VERY happy to bring you A SPECIAL BONUS EPISODE in what would’ve otherwise been a dark week for us (in the sense that we wouldn’t normally be delivering a podcast because we’re on a bi-weekly schedule, because, I mean… it’s always pretty dark these days… and weeks) with our friend, comedian Rhea Butcher!

If you like our dumb intro conversations, then, my friends, you are in for a treat, because this may be our dumbest ever.  It’s mainly about Saltines vs. Rice Crackers.

No ads this episode, but we do take a few breaks to talk about the MaxFun annual pledge drive, which kicks off today, Monday, March 18, 2019.  The entire network is largely listener supported, so thusly, we rely on your support.  You can make a one-time donation or become a member with a recurring monthly contribution.  These range from five dollars a month all the way up to two hundred dollars a month, and there are, as you’d imagine, some great gifts for all the various pledge levels.  At the basic level, you get access to over a hundred hours of bonus content from ALL of the shows on the MaxFun network, and what we’re offering is a “new” Both song.  For the rare bird out there who somehow came to this show through podcasts and not our music careers, Aimee and I perform both under our own names, and together as The Both.  If you caught any of our shows toward the tail end of the touring cycle on our last Both album, you may have seen us play this live, as we were working it up then, but this is the first time a recorded version will see the light of day.  We hope you’ll become a member, in our name, and we hope you’ll enjoy.  Links to all the MaxFun stuff below.

RHEA is currently on tour all over the damned place, and the tour comes near you, I can’t recommend going to one of the shows strongly enough.  Hell, if you’ve got the means and the time, MAKE A TRIP TO SOMEWHERE ELSE to see her.

LINKS:

Rhea Butcher on tour! 

Maximum Fun membership sign-up page! https://maximumfun.org/donate

Take My Wife lost its original platform when NBC’s streaming comedy service SeeSo stopped doing original programming, but it’s run is once again available for streaming at pretty much all the services!

Thank you for listening; thank you for supporting us; thank you for supporting each other.