As reported yesterday in an exclusive at LawSites blog, two leading international legal transformation organizations, the Digital Legal Exchange (DLEx) and the Liquid Legal Institute (LLI), have joined forces in a strategic union that brings together more than 1,500 members representing more than 140 multinational corporations, organizations, institutions and agencies across more than 20 countries. 

On today’s LawNext, two of the principles of that union — Mark Cohen, chairman emeritus of DLEx, and Dr. Dierk Schindler, cofounder of LLI — join host Bob Ambrogi to discuss their vision of creating the world’s leading think tank for legal transformation. Among the topics they discuss: 

• The origins and evolution of both organizations.

• How their complementary approaches — LLI's grassroots community spanning all levels of organizations and DLEx's executive-level focus — will create greater impact together.

• What "legal transformation" means in today's rapidly evolving environment.

• How businesses are driving change in the legal function.

• The importance of mindset in transformation.

• Plans for future collaboration, including joint projects and events.

Listen to gain unique insights into how these organizations aim to shape the future of legal through collective effort and a truly global perspective.

Mark Cohen is the chairman emeritus of DLEx and founder of Legal Mosaic. With nearly 50 years in the legal industry, Mark has been a prosecutor, partner at a major law firm, founder of his own firm, and head of an international aviation parts business. He writes for Forbes and teaches at law and business schools around the world.

Dr. Dierk Schindler is a co-founder of the Liquid Legal Institute. He holds a Ph.D. in European law and has extensive experience in private practice and in-house legal departments. Schindler has been a driving force in legal innovation and process-driven legal operations.

• Liquid Legal Institute website

• Digital Legal Exchange website

• Liquid Legal: Sustaining the Rule of Law – Artificial Intelligence, E-Justice and the Cloud (book publication)

• Upcoming events: Legal Tech Talk 2025 (London, June 26-27, 2025) and LLI's 2025 Summit (Düsseldorf, July 7-8, 2025)

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

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• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

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“The landscape we all stand on is shifting, and massive amounts of change are upon us,” Phil Saunders, the chief executive officer of e-discovery and legal technology giant Relativity, recently wrote in a post on the company’s blog. Driving that change are three transformative forces, he wrote: new legal data challenges, advancing generative AI, and legal’s journey to the cloud. 

On this episode of LawNext, Saunders – who joined Relativity as CEO in 2022 after three decades in the technology sector – joins host Bob Ambrogi to discuss why he believes that both Relativity and the legal industry at large are at a pivotal moment, and to outline his company’s vision for navigating these three forces reshaping the legal technology landscape. 

Within Saunders’ blog post was a notable announcement: Starting in 2028, Relativity will require that all new matters be hosted on its cloud platform, RelativityOne – a significant milestone for a company that built its success on its on-premises Relativity Server product. 

The conversation starts there, with what might be considered the last mile in the company’s transition to the cloud. Saunders also discusses what attracted him to join Relativity, how the company is approaching the opportunities and challenges presented by generative AI, its work with the Legal Data Intelligence initiative, and his longer-term strategic vision for Relativity.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

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• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

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Recently, legal technology company SurePoint Technologies acquired the legal practice management company ZenCase in a strategic move aimed at enhancing SurePoint’s practice management offerings for mid-sized law firms. In this episode of LawNext, Eric Thurston, who recently marked his two-year anniversary as CEO of SurePoint Technologies, joins host Bob Ambrogi to discuss the acquisition and share his perspective on the mid-market landscape in law. 

Originally founded in 1982 as Rippe & Kingston, SurePoint has established itself as a leading provider of financial and practice management software for mid-sized law firms, currently serving nearly 1,000 customers. As Thurston explains in the interview, the acquisition of ZenCase strengthens its front-end capabilities with features tailored specifically for lawyers. The acquisition helps SurePoint "leapfrog innovation by about three years," he says, while addressing customer demands for more lawyer-friendly interfaces.

The conversation also explores SurePoint's earlier acquisition of Leopard Solutions, a business intelligence platform that provides comprehensive data on attorneys and law firms across the country, enabling everything from strategic recruiting to competitor analysis. Thurston explains how they've already integrated Leopard's analytics into ZenCase, allowing lawyers to quickly access valuable industry data.

Looking at the mid-market practice management landscape, Thurston acknowledges that it is currently fragmented, but he believes SurePoint is positioned to become "the Clio of the mid-market." He outlines the company's vision to help firms not just manage their practices but accelerate growth through better technology, data analytics, and business intelligence. With a philosophy that "you're either growing or dying," Thurston shares how he believes SurePoint continues to evolve while helping law firms do the same.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

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On this week’s show: LawNext takes you to the movies. Well, to a specific movie, anyway – a documentary being made to raise public awareness and understanding of the access to justice crisis in this country. 

Today’s guests are the film’s director, documentary filmmaker Laura Hand, who previously directed The Tent Mender, about homelessness on Skid Row in Los Angeles, and Maya Markovich, a legal innovation leader – and two-time previous guest on this show (here and here) – who is serving as a producer and advisor to the documentary. You may know Markovich as executive director of the Justice Technology Association and for her recent appointment as vice president of the American Arbitration Association’s thought leadership and research arm. 

The documentary, called Justice: Just A Promise?, has been given unprecedented access to film inside the courthouses of the Los Angeles County court system – the largest court system in the world and one where litigants unable to get a lawyer present enormous challenges to the civil justice system. 

As this episode airs, the filmmakers have just launched an Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign to raise the money they need to complete and distribute the film. During today’s conversation, you’ll hear about that campaign, including Hand’s surprising explanation of why she went that route to raise funds. 

You will also learn all about the making of the film and how the filmmakers aim to raise awareness about a nationwide crisis that far too few are even aware of, let alone understand. 

• Check out their fundraising page here. 

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com. 

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After building his career as an engineer at Facebook and as a venture capitalist at Lightspeed Venture Partners, Jay Madheswaran and his cofounders spotted an opportunity to deploy cutting-edge AI to transform what they saw as an underserved segment of the legal market, launching Eve, an AI platform purpose-built for plaintiffs’ law firms. Eve has quickly gained traction, recently securing a $47 million Series A round led by Andreessen Horowitz, and boasting 800% year-over-year growth. 

But what makes Eve’s story particularly interesting is its mission to transform traditional plaintiffs’ firms into what Madheswaran calls "AI-native law firms" – where technology does not just automate tasks but fundamentally changes how legal services are delivered, in part by encoding firms’ unique knowledge and processes into intelligent systems.

In today’s episode, Madheswaran joins host Bob Ambrogi to explain his concept of AI-native law firms and describe how Eve's technology can help firms double or triple their caseloads by automating everything from case-intake analysis to document drafting, all while learning to work in each firm's unique voice and style. 

He also discusses the challenges of building trust with lawyers around AI and his vision for increasingly specialized legal services in an AI-powered future.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

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• Legalweek, March 24-27, New York Hilton Midtown. Register today at legalweekshow.com. 

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Earlier this month, a legal tech startup called Fortuna Arbitration launched what it says is the first true AI judge – an automated arbitration system called Arbitrus.ai that the company claims can fully replace human arbitrators in resolving legal disputes. The system promises to cut the cost of arbitration from an average of $100,000 to just $10,000, while delivering consistent, unbiased decisions within 72 hours.

On this week’s LawNext, our guests are two of the founders behind this ambitious project. Brian Potts is a partner at Husch Blackwell and an experienced commercial litigator. He is also the inventor of the LegalBoard, a computer keyboard designed for lawyers that was wildly popular when it launched. And Kimo Gandall is the CEO of Fortuna Arbitration and a current third-year Harvard Law student who, along with third co-founder Kenny McLaren, has been working on AI legal prediction systems since well before he went to law school. 

They've published their testing of Arbitrus, showing zero hallucinations across 100 test cases. They believe their system will not only make arbitration faster and cheaper, but could eventually evolve into what they call an 'Arbitration State' – a private legal system that could handle a significant portion of disputes that currently clog our courts.

Is this AI judge the future of dispute resolution? Or are there fundamental aspects of legal decision-making that require human judgment? In today’s episode, we'll explore these questions and more.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

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When former Wall Street lawyer Jonathan Petts joined forces in 2016 with Rohan Pavuluri, then a research assistant in Harvard Law School’s Access to Justice Lab, and Mark Hansen, a software engineer, to create Upsolve, they had a simple but powerful vision: make bankruptcy filing as accessible as online tax preparation for Americans crushed by debt. 

Today, their nonprofit has helped over 16,000 low-income families discharge more than $700 million in debt through Chapter 7 bankruptcy – all at no cost to users.

In this episode of LawNext, host Bob Ambrogi is joined by Petts, now Upsolve’s CEO, and Ben Jackson, an ex-Uber driver who joined Upsolve’s founding team after his first year of law school and who is now chief product officer. They share their personal journeys that led them to create Upsolve, from Petts' experience as a big firm lawyer helping pro bono clients get fresh starts to Jackson's own struggles with $60,000 in credit card debt. 

They detail how Upsolve works, who it serves, and how they maintain quality while providing free services.They also discuss how they're leveraging AI to expand their impact, their battle against unauthorized practice of law restrictions in a groundbreaking federal lawsuit in New York, and their mission to help Americans rebuild their financial futures.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

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When it comes to contract negotiations, lawyers often find themselves spending countless hours haggling over standard agreements such as NDAs and SaaS contracts, with both sides often saying more or less the same thing, but in different words. What if there was a better way? 

Today’s guests believe there is. Electra Japonas, chief legal officer at Law Insider and founder of the successful oneNDA initiative, and Preston Clark, Law Insider president, are on a mission to revolutionize contract negotiations by developing and open-sourcing a suite of standard agreements.

They started with oneNDA, which has been adopted by over 6,000 organizations and used in an estimated 10 million agreements annually, and they have just launched their oneSaaS standard. Now, they are setting their sights on developing a full library of standard, open-source agreements.

Japonas shares how her experience as a lawyer at the European Space Agency initially shaped her vision for contract standardization, and she explains the methodology behind the development of oneSaaS, which involved analysis of nearly 1,000 existing agreements and incorporated feedback from hundreds of legal professionals and SaaS providers. 

Clark joins midway through the show to discuss Law Insider's plans to build a comprehensive ecosystem of standardized agreements, supported by AI-powered contract automation technology. He outlines how the company plans to transform routine contract work while maintaining its commitment to keeping these standards freely available to the legal community.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out. 

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

In the United States, we face a staggering crisis in access to justice, with over 90% of low-income Americans' civil legal needs estimated to be going unmet. But what if there was a way to dramatically expand legal help by empowering a new category of legal helpers? 

That's exactly what today's guest, Nikole Nelson, is working to achieve as CEO of Frontline Justice. After 25 years as a legal aid lawyer in Alaska, Nelson now leads this national nonprofit organization dedicated to establishing and supporting "community justice workers" – people who are not lawyers but who are trained to provide essential legal assistance to those who cannot afford attorneys. 

Nelson was a guest on this show a year ago, shortly after Frontline Justice was founded and she was named CEO. She returns today to catch us up on what has happened since then across the country towards her ultimate goal of bringing justice workers to every U.S. state. 

She reports that five states now have laws in place that authorize justice workers and another 20 states are now in the process of adopting or considering these programs. To facilitate these developments, her organization has launched a National Taskforce on Community Justice Worker Training.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Earlier this month, the Legal Services Corporation, the largest funder of civil legal aid in the United States, held its annual Innovations in Technology Conference in Phoenix. This year’s conference was particularly special for two reasons. For one, it was the conference’s 25th anniversary, as well as the 25th anniversary of the Technology Initiative Grants program that was the genesis of the conference. 

For another, this year’s conference followed the official retirement in November of Glenn Rawdon, the person who got the conference started in the first place and who oversaw it all these years. As program counsel at the LSC since 1999, it was Rawdon’s job to assist legal services programs with their technology efforts, manage the LSC’s technology grants, and make this conference happen every year. 

Rawdon is our guest this week, as he sits down with host Bob Ambrogi to share the origin story and evolution of the two groundbreaking LSC initiatives he helped launch and oversee — the TIG program and the ITC conference (long known as the TIG conference). 

From the conference’s humble beginnings as a gathering of 32 people in New Orleans in 2000, Rawdon explains how it grew into what many now consider the premier global event focused on technology and access to justice, this year drawing 700 attendees and 150 presenters from around the world. He also discusses how the TIG program, which started with a $7.5 million budget funding mainly website projects, evolved to support more sophisticated technology initiatives aimed at expanding access to legal services.

Drawing from his unique background as a solo practitioner who embraced technology in the 1980s to improve his own efficiency, Rawdon shares insights about the initially tentative but gradually expanding role of technology in legal aid organizations. He discusses key milestones like the development of document assembly tools, online intake systems, and statewide legal information websites — innovations that helped transform how legal aid is delivered.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

• LEX Reception, Never miss a call, with expert answering service for Lawyers.

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

From legal aid attorney to legal tech innovator, Sateesh Nori brings a unique perspective to the intersection of artificial intelligence and access to justice. 

After spending two decades in the trenches as a housing lawyer at legal aid offices in New York City, Nori now bridges multiple worlds – continuing his legal aid work at the Legal Aid Society of NYC while also serving as an adjunct clinical professor at NYU Law School in its eviction defense clinic and working as a senior legal innovation strategist at Just-Tech LLC, a technology consulting firm that focuses on legal services providers.  

He recently partnered with Housing Court Answers, a nonprofit tenants’ rights organization in NYC, and Josef, the legal automation company, to develop and launch Roxanne, an AI-powered tool to help tenants understand their repair rights, and he believes artificial intelligence could be the key to finally making meaningful progress in closing the justice gap. 

As if all that were not enough to keep Nori busy, he recently published a memoir, Sheltered: Twenty Years in Housing Court, and gave a TEDx talk, How A Chatbot Can Save Someone From Homelessness. 

Today, in a conversation recorded live at the Legal Services Corporation’s Innovations in Technology conference in Phoenix last week, Nori and host Bob Ambrogi discuss why he believes that AI is as transformative as electricity, how he is using it in his own work, and why he believes law schools are failing to prepare students for the AI revolution.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

• Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner).

If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.