Ash Vijay, SVP of Cloud Sales and BD Partnerships, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I am excited to introduce my conversation with Ash Vijay, SVP of Cloud Sales and BD Partnerships at Redis, live from Google Cloud’s Marketplace Exchange! Redis, a favorite among developers, plays a crucial role in the data ecosystem, powering applications with high-performance caching and database solutions integral to GenAI.

In this episode, Ash shares how Redis is leveraging Google Cloud Marketplace to meet customer demand for faster procurement and scaling, especially in light of large cloud commitments. Redis’s marketplace strategy not only retains customers but also expands deal sizes and accelerates closing times. Ash discusses Redis’s comprehensive partner program, enabling ISVs, OEMs, and SIs to build on the Redis platform, offering them both growth opportunities and collaborative engagement with Redis’s ecosystem.

Ash’s advice to partners? Invest in the marketplace and empower your sales teams to maximize its potential—a strategy that’s driving Redis’s top-down engagements and delivering significant business value.

Tune into The Ultimate Guide to Partnering to learn how Redis is redefining co-selling and scaling with Google Cloud!

https://youtu.be/bwnWR_ksNTI?si=Mx6vkTd92cIMdJ1v

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

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Dustin Nelson, Sales Director at CDW, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I’m thrilled to share my interview with Dustin Nelson, Sales Director at CDW, recorded live at Google Cloud’s Marketplace Exchange! Dustin dives into how CDW has embraced the marketplace model to meet customers’ evolving needs in today’s SaaS-driven world, where cloud marketplaces are transforming how organizations buy, manage, and scale solutions.

Dustin shares CDW’s journey of building a dedicated team to support Google Cloud Marketplace transactions, which has led to impressive growth: over $400 million in marketplace business and 500 transactions this year alone. With customers now at the center, Dustin emphasizes that open collaboration between Google, ISVs, and partners like CDW is crucial for delivering enhanced value and transaction flexibility.

For organizations planning their 2025 marketplace strategy, Dustin advises embracing collaboration and focusing on customer-centric approaches to stay ahead in this fast-evolving ecosystem. Tune into this Ultimate Guide to Partnering episode to hear how CDW is sparking the marketplace ecosystem!

https://youtu.be/jFiAlNgVCgQ?si=zGoWBCZsKPr8wSB3

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

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Jarrod Buckley, VP of Channels and Alliances, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I am excited to bring you insights from my conversation with Jarrod Buckley, VP of Channels and Alliances at Datadog, live from Google Cloud’s Marketplace Exchange! Datadog, a leader in cloud application monitoring and security, is transforming how customers manage their cloud environments through a single, unified platform.

In this episode, Jarrod shares how Datadog leverages Google Cloud Marketplace to simplify customer procurement and drive larger, faster deals. He highlights Datadog’s recent innovations, including empowering channel partners to sell Datadog through Google Cloud Marketplace and the ecosystem approach that places customer needs at the center of co-selling strategies. As marketplace adoption grows, Datadog is scaling across geographies, with systems and human teams aligning to ensure seamless co-selling at scale.

For anyone looking to optimize their marketplace strategy, Jarrod offers valuable advice for planning and aligning incentives as we head into 2025. Catch this episode of The Ultimate Guide to Partnering for insights into how Datadog leads the charge in marketplace-driven cloud success!

https://youtu.be/12dgcqk7a7M?si=WhX-eX9hNRvsfPn7

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

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Ken Olofsen, CMO of Labelbox, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I’m thrilled to introduce my conversation with Ken Olofsen, CMO of Labelbox, which was recorded live at the Google Cloud Marketplace Exchange! Labelbox, a longtime Google partner, has revolutionized data labeling for generative AI, providing a “data factory” that powers the most advanced AI models. Ken shares how Labelbox collaborates with Google to support model builders and enterprise teams. This includes an exciting integration with Vertex AI that allows users to use Labelbox’s human evaluation services to effortlessly fine-tune their models.

In this episode, Ken discusses Labelbox’s use of Google Cloud Marketplace as a rapid transaction platform, enabling seamless, scalable partnerships. From simplifying contracts with private and public offers to offering a one-click evaluation solution on Vertex AI, Labelbox is setting the bar high for innovation in data annotation.

Tune in to this episode of The Ultimate Guide to Partnering to learn how Labelbox is shaping the future of generative AI through strategic partnerships!

https://youtu.be/2xsGwreKdRg?si=TqCv1zjqPD37lzav

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

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Russel Efird, Head of NA Partnerships, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I am excited to bring you an insightful conversation with Russell Efird, Head of North American Partnerships at Quantum Metric, recorded live from Google Cloud’s Marketplace Exchange! Russell dives into how Quantum Metric, a digital analytics experience platform, leverages the power of Google Cloud technologies like BigQuery and Gen AI to create seamless, high-performing digital journeys that resonate with C-level leaders and drive real business outcomes.

Russell shares invaluable insights into the evolving enterprise buying landscape and the importance of aligning SaaS solutions to meet the needs of key decision-makers, from Chief Digital Officers to Heads of E-commerce. He highlights Quantum Metric’s strategy of building “value networks” by collaborating with Google and other ISVs, enhancing the customer experience and accelerating business impact through innovative partnerships.

Packed with practical strategies for growth, marketplace success, and ecosystem collaboration, this episode of The Ultimate Guide to Partnering is a must-watch for anyone invested in partnerships or digital analytics. Tune in for Russell’s expert advice on building a future-focused partner strategy and driving growth through meaningful, multi-partner collaborations!

https://youtu.be/GmwH9DvYeeI?si=w70kpzszg7tGWzKB

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

Come Join Us

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Lisa Citron, VP of Global Partner Ecosystem at F5, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

Thrilled to bring you an exclusive conversation with Lisa Citron, VP of Global Partner Ecosystem at F5, live from the Google Cloud Marketplace event! In this episode, Lisa dives into how F5—a leader in app delivery and security for nearly three decades—has evolved to harness the power of cloud marketplaces and hyperscaler partnerships.

With deep insights into the shifts toward C-suite and board-level conversations, Lisa shares how F5 is tackling critical security concerns, especially around AI and API protection. Her perspectives on adapting to new buying behaviors and scaling securely with cloud partners like Google Cloud are essential for anyone navigating the digital transformation landscape.

Tune in to learn from Lisa’s journey and hear how F5 is leading in the cloud era on The Ultimate Guide to Partnering!

https://youtu.be/17dq53pw85M?si=KSBMLfTh6sIucQnW

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

Come Join Us

I’m thrilled to welcome you to this journey. Let’s navigate, thrive, and redefine success in the tech partnership landscape together. Come Sign Up

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Matt Egan, Senior Strategic Alliance Leader at Optimizely, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I just wrapped up an insightful interview with Matt Egan, Senior Strategic Alliance Leader at Optimizely, at the Google Cloud Marketplace event! In our conversation, Matt shared his journey driving Optimizely’s co-selling partnership with Google Cloud. From co-marketing to co-innovation, he emphasized how these strategic pillars have expanded opportunities for Optimizely to help organizations optimize digital experiences on a robust Google-powered platform.

For anyone navigating the intricacies of partnerships or aiming to enhance their go-to-market strategy, Matt’s takeaways are pure gold—especially his advice on building executive commitment and focusing on the revenue impact of co-selling.

Don’t miss this episode on The Ultimate Guide to Partnering!

https://youtu.be/ml9YJb24XCs?si=5B1jVcMbcKdCZqr5

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Ultimate Partner Experience

Ever wonder what you could achieve with the right partners? Dive into the Ultimate Partner Experience Community (UPX) and discover a world of possibilities!

Exclusive Content

Gain access to cutting-edge content and events crafted by partnership professionals. Stay ahead with strategies, trends, and in-depth interviews with the industry leaders in partnerships.

Access to a Like-Minded Community

Our next event is just around the corner and everyone is welcome. Although the event is open to the public, we want to give a special privilege to our members. Which means the Q&A session is exclusive to members only. It’s bound to be an exciting event and we look forward to seeing you all there!

Make Connections That Matter!

Dive right in and send a direct message to any member of UPX community! You are not just joining a group, but unlocking an open and vibrant network of professionals waiting to connect with you. Seize this golden opportunity to expand your horizons, fuel your career growth and discover exhilarating business prospects. The world is your oyster at UPX, let’s explore it together!

Come Join Us

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Janet Schijns, CEO of JSG, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

Today, we’re joined by Channel Legend, Janet Schijns Co Founder and CEO of JS Group. Join us as we dive deep into the evolving landscape of partnerships and leadership in the tech industry. In this episode, we explore a wide array of topics, from the potential pitfalls in e-commerce management to the changing roles of CEOs and CIOs in the age of cloud tech.

Janet Schijns is a dedicated and strategic leader known for her protective and defensive approach in supporting business partners. She keenly understands the delicate balance between shielding partners from disruptive market noise and ensuring management remains receptive to critical feedback. Her leadership focus aims to prevent any slowdowns in partner sales momentum, while also fostering transparent communication channels within the organization.

We’ll unpack the complexities of modern partner ecosystems and the rise of new marketplace dynamics, emphasizing the critical importance of Chief Partner Officers (CPOs) and why they could be the most sought-after CEOs of the future. Janet and Vince will also highlight how companies like Vodafone and Infosys are making substantial commitments to tech giants like Microsoft, and discuss the nervousness surrounding traditional distribution channels amidst these shifts.

Moreover, you’ll hear insightful predictions about the future of marketplaces, how generative AI is reshaping repetitive business tasks, and why an inclusive partner strategy is paramount. We’ll also delve into the economic uncertainties we face, the booming investment in cloud infrastructure, and the critical role of alliance managers in navigating these new terrains.Whether you’re a tech enthusiast, a business leader, or someone interested in the future of partnerships, this episode is packed with valuable insights. So, tune in as we explore how to stay ahead in a constantly evolving business landscape and why the next big CEO might just come from the CPO ranks. 

What You’ll Learn From This Episode:

00:00 – Introduction 

00:00 – Overprotection hindered feedback; significant channel change.

04:17-  Decreased customer interaction with salespeople in purchases.

07:20 – Outdated training, needed skills lacking, partner-focused.

10:51 – Ultimate partner summit: engage, learn, achieve, innovate.

15:02 – Advising boards on market strategy topics.

17:32 – C-suite struggles relinquishing control over channels.

21:18 – AWS became 5th largest distributor with $1B+ clients.

24:12 – Thrilled to announce partnership with Impartner.

26:18 – Power is crucial due to Gen AI compute.

29:21 – Failure prompts crisis responses; opportunity prompts growth planning.

34:08 –  Firms investing in marketing achieve higher growth.36:11 – Join UPX for exclusive insights and community.

https://youtu.be/W63c9MbK4X8?si=XqC0t-JuQlvYYQ9t

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Ultimate Partner LIVE – Executive Summit ’24 – Join Us!

Don’t Miss Out – Sign Up Today!

I’m thrilled with the lineup for Ultimate Partner LIVE ’24 Executive Summit in Dallas, TX, on October 22nd and 23rd!

This year’s summit promises to be bigger and better. It will be an immersive experience bringing together over 300+ partners across ISVs, LSPs, and SIs. Join us for two days of insightful discussions, hands-on workshops, and unparalleled networking opportunities with industry leaders and Microsoft executives.

REGISTER HERE

Transcript

Janet Schijns [00:00:00]:

So how do you partner? Right? What are the tenants of partnering? It’s interesting how confusing that is for some traditional channel organizations.

Mike Gervais [00:00:11]:

Microsoft’s purpose is in service of your purpose.

Jay McBain [00:00:15]:

And, again, 2024 is the year that partners come out as the leading edge of the spear on finding this buyer intent. You show up to every meeting and demonstrate why you are relevant.

Sharon Schoenborn [00:00:26]:

Every day, I have to force myself to make sure that I’m taking one step ahead in terms of my own learning.

Vince Menzione [00:00:31]:

That flywheel success is where you will build momentum, and that momentum will continue. And then you feed into the other systems to say, this is what we did. This is how we did it together. You know, we talk happy talk sometimes about channel and partnerships. But the truth of the matter is it isn’t always and partnerships, but the truth of the matter is it isn’t always easy. It’s not. And organizations still struggle here. Like, I I have phone

Janet Schijns [00:00:48]:

calls and I have DMs

Vince Menzione [00:00:49]:

from people. It seems like every day I get a new one. Like, I’m building a practice. Right. We’ve been at it for 7 years.

Janet Schijns [00:01:01]:

Something’s wrong. Or our

Vince Menzione [00:01:02]:

leadership our leadership still doesn’t get it.

Janet Schijns [00:01:04]:

Right. Or I got the last push through on cost of channel again

Vince Menzione [00:01:08]:

from the

Janet Schijns [00:01:08]:

CFO. Yeah. Yeah. I get those same tax, and it’s changing so quick.

Vince Menzione [00:01:11]:

Right? It is.

Janet Schijns [00:01:12]:

So that’s part of it. Part of it is even the old dog channel leaders That’s right. Having to learn some new tricks. And so you and I get a lot of calls because of that.

Vince Menzione [00:01:20]:

Yeah. And we we’re gonna talk more about that as well, some of the new tricks that they’re learning.

Janet Schijns [00:01:24]:

Yeah. So some of those new tricks learning.

Vince Menzione [00:01:26]:

But why do you think organizations still struggle here? What what what would you say is the main reason? You’re face to face at the board level. You’re talking to the c suite. Right? You’re with the channel chief or the chief partner officer, whatever the title is these days.

Janet Schijns [00:01:40]:

Yeah. Why

Vince Menzione [00:01:41]:

do you think that they’re still struggling?

Janet Schijns [00:01:42]:

You know, increasingly, it’s interesting. Increasingly, we’re being pulled in by the board or the c suite and not the channel leader.

Vince Menzione [00:01:48]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:01:48]:

Because so much is changing. Yep. Right? Because so much is evolving, and they’re not sure what’s supposed to happen. And I think the reason why so often there’s a little bit of a gap I’m not gonna say disconnect because I don’t think it’s a disconnect. I think if you speak to the c suite, they understand, particularly if they do 75% of their sales through the channel

Vince Menzione [00:02:06]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:02:06]:

That the channel is important to them. The disconnect comes from the fact that the channel chief has long been, and excuse me to our audience listening at home, the shit umbrella Yeah. For the channel. Yes. So their job has been to hold the umbrella up. And no matter what the CFO said, no matter what the sales leader said, their job was to protect the partners.

Vince Menzione [00:02:26]:

Yes.

Janet Schijns [00:02:27]:

Right? So you hold that umbrella up. I I did that. I hit a very, you know, sore and

Vince Menzione [00:02:31]:

very large. Defend and

Janet Schijns [00:02:32]:

protect. Defend defend and protect, and don’t let that hit the partners because if you let that noise hit the partners, they’re gonna slow down and stop selling. The problem though is that umbrella also keeps the feedback from the partners getting up to the management. And so I think what happened in in protecting the partners, they actually overprotected leadership. And so we just finished a survey. Doctor Ashlyn Silva, who’s the head of our research survey, just did a CRO survey of firms that had channel leaders. And the channel leaders all said that the change in the channel was significant. That was the most common answer, significant change in the channel.

Janet Schijns [00:03:08]:

The CRO said some change.

Vince Menzione [00:03:11]:

Interesting. That was some mean by significant change?

Janet Schijns [00:03:13]:

Significant changes in routes to market, in partners, and how we’re gonna go to market, and how we’re gonna partner. Right? As we dug down in the survey, in our channel survey, which comes out later this year, the CROs, while they saw some change, mind you, some change, they did not see that that overwhelming level of change. And, again, I think it’s because that umbrella now is so lodged in place. They’re not getting that feedback.

Vince Menzione [00:03:36]:

The transparency isn’t there No. No. No. Back up to the c suite.

Janet Schijns [00:03:40]:

It’s just not getting to the c suite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Vince Menzione [00:03:42]:

Is it a translation issue as well from the chief partner officer or the channel chief up through the c suite or maybe a lack of trust or understanding?

Janet Schijns [00:03:51]:

Play protect me games all the time as the channel leader, which a lot of folks in the traditional business have had to do. Thankfully, in some of the SaaS businesses, it’s been more transparent. But when you have to play that protect me game, it gets to the point where the channel chief is kinda covering their, you know, butt for the issues too.

Vince Menzione [00:04:08]:

Right.

Janet Schijns [00:04:09]:

Right. So I think it’s partially transparency. I think the other part is the c suite only specializes in channel during ops reviews

Vince Menzione [00:04:16]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:04:17]:

And board meetings and earnings calls, and they don’t specialize in the channel the rest of the time. And so what we’ve seen, and I know I’ve shared this stat with you, but not probably with your viewers. What we’ve seen is in 5 years, we’ve went from 51% of the time a customer spends in a b to b tech purchase being with a salesperson to only 14% of the time they spend with a salesperson. Yes. So this motion that we used to have where if you added more sellers, both partners or direct sellers

Vince Menzione [00:04:43]:

Right.

Janet Schijns [00:04:43]:

You would get more sales. This was a common, right, has been something that that’s how everybody’s looked at the channel. It’s just more salespeople. We heard this

Vince Menzione [00:04:51]:

feet on the street, reach.

Janet Schijns [00:04:52]:

Yep. You’re extending your coverage. Right? We’ve all heard this reason for having the channel. Right? Because they’re a sales channel. Well, now you’ve got a Microsoft who’s adding, you know, what, 90% of their partners are adding aren’t transacting.

Vince Menzione [00:05:04]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:05:05]:

We’re seeing this across the space. It’s about influence and advocacy. And and so when that starts to happen, it’s very difficult if you’ve been reluctantly in your c suite partnering in the first place now to let these people Yeah. Do even more. And believe me, they are referred to, for those of you in the channel listening, as these people, by a lot of by a lot of c suite leaders.

Vince Menzione [00:05:29]:

CFOs particularly love yeah. That’s yeah. We’re gonna dive into the chief partner officer role. So I don’t wanna because I think that we what you’re uncovering here is it’s important. Let’s go there first.

Janet Schijns [00:05:42]:

Okay.

Vince Menzione [00:05:43]:

I had Greg Sarafin here just a few weeks ago from Awesome. Chief partner officer. Yep. Different role. Yeah. Different role. Different set different set of skills.

Janet Schijns [00:05:52]:

Yes.

Vince Menzione [00:05:53]:

We spent almost an hour and a half in in the studio here. He gave us a master class and what he did at taking them from a 1,000,000,000 to about 8 or 9,000,000,000. He’s retiring. And so I think about that chief partner officer. Right? That role. I think the role that the nomenclature around the role is being overused and overhyped personally. Right?

Janet Schijns [00:06:16]:

When everybody becomes a CPO, no one’s a CPO. No.

Vince Menzione [00:06:18]:

But no one’s a CPO. But I do think that there’s a new set of skills.

Janet Schijns [00:06:23]:

Very different set of skills.

Vince Menzione [00:06:24]:

Set of skills. And I look at a person like Greg as an example of that, honestly, who comes from Yes. Comes from a financial acumen

Janet Schijns [00:06:31]:

Right.

Vince Menzione [00:06:32]:

Where the channel chief is somebody who maybe grew up in the channel, maybe was at at a vendor like a Microsoft or an HP or a Cisco

Janet Schijns [00:06:40]:

sales experience.

Vince Menzione [00:06:41]:

Sales experience mostly. And the translation back to the c suite isn’t as fluid, transparent, or the conversations that are being had are not being understood the way they need to because they’re not in the language of the of the

Janet Schijns [00:06:54]:

And and and half

Vince Menzione [00:06:55]:

of the

Janet Schijns [00:06:55]:

time, it’s skills. Yeah. Right? And we’ll talk on that. The other half of the time is just the culture of the company. Right? The channel chief has kinda been this, I don’t really know what he does, but or she does, although there’s very few she’s. I don’t really know what they do. She’s.

Vince Menzione [00:07:08]:

I don’t

Janet Schijns [00:07:08]:

need another thing. We’ll talk about that. Yep. They’ve kind of been cloaked in this little bit of secrecy. Right? There’s a lot of hugs. There’s a lot of mugs. Yeah. There’s a lot of events, and they’re doing a lot of things.

Janet Schijns [00:07:20]:

And, you know, they bring in sales, and the company says, hey. You know, that’s good, and and we’ll talk to you again and give you a hard time next next month or next quarter. But the skill set has not been invested in. No. So despite the fact that there’s so much change in the channel and that the channel leaders see that, what you see is still very traditional training. When we go in and do our partner expert training for teams, and that is really around how do you partner, not just resell or sell.

Vince Menzione [00:07:47]:

Give me that word again.

Janet Schijns [00:07:48]:

Partner expert.

Vince Menzione [00:07:49]:

Partner expert. Mhmm. Interesting.

Janet Schijns [00:07:51]:

So how do you partner? Right? What are the tenants of partnering? It’s interesting how confusing that is for some traditional channel organizations because then they start to say things like, no. No. No. Our product team handles that stuff. Oh, we have an alliances organization, and it’s in the strategy group.

Vince Menzione [00:08:08]:

Exactly.

Janet Schijns [00:08:09]:

We have a program group, and this is an interesting new trend that I’m seeing at variety of companies, including Verizon as an example, where the program team for partnering now reports to the CFO.

Vince Menzione [00:08:21]:

Interesting.

Janet Schijns [00:08:22]:

And in a in an attempt I can only believe to control money

Vince Menzione [00:08:25]:

So like a shadow organization for the partner organization?

Janet Schijns [00:08:28]:

Well, it’s the actual program team, and they’re not the only vendor I’m seeing doing this. So starting to move that partner program, you know, your traditional triangles, silver, gold,

Vince Menzione [00:08:36]:

you know. Trust in the channel chief

Janet Schijns [00:08:39]:

and something.

Vince Menzione [00:08:40]:

And holding the dollars.

Janet Schijns [00:08:41]:

Because you’ve seen it in the past in marketing. Yep. We’ve seen it in the past in the channel, and we’ve seen it in sales. We’ve seen the CRO have it. Now all of a sudden, I’m starting to see a trend of it moving that or just the program

Vince Menzione [00:08:52]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:08:52]:

Moving to either some level of compliance.

Vince Menzione [00:08:56]:

Mhmm.

Janet Schijns [00:08:56]:

And, you know, we’ve seen some bad stuff happening, so I understand why, or finance. And the reason I point this out is because partnering has now become something that’s all hands on the field.

Vince Menzione [00:09:06]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:09:06]:

It’s not just the it used to be pretty simple.

Vince Menzione [00:09:09]:

Right?

Janet Schijns [00:09:09]:

You wanna partner, see the channel chief, they’re over there. Yeah. Now

Vince Menzione [00:09:13]:

And they have the partner program, and then they have a bunch of organizations.

Janet Schijns [00:09:17]:

They run almost like a different company.

Vince Menzione [00:09:19]:

So They’re bolted on.

Janet Schijns [00:09:20]:

They’re bolted on. They’re kind of this good thing. Now then we started having companies say we’re gonna be a 100% channel. They still don’t mean that. No. They mean they’re gonna put sales through the channel on their paper.

Vince Menzione [00:09:31]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:09:32]:

And then we have companies like Microsoft, like E and Y, like AvPoint, which I’m honored to sit on the board for, who look at partnering as systemic across the organization. Approach. Holistic approach, it’s embedded. It’s not a separate thing. Right? Although they have a program and they have all the elements, it’s part of everybody’s job to partner. And that’s the world we’re moving towards. And that’s why the skill for that CPO, that ability to reach cross organization, Greg has that skill. Right?

Vince Menzione [00:10:00]:

He has that skill.

Janet Schijns [00:10:00]:

That ability to to understand that there’s a bigger gain than signing the PO today. I was talking with Infosys. I’ll use them as an example. They’re genius at partnering, and they’re doing $7,000,000,000 deals with 37 partners in them.

Vince Menzione [00:10:17]:

Wow.

Janet Schijns [00:10:18]:

So you start thinking about the scope of partnering. Right? And in the past, you would have said, oh, good. They’re gonna do the install and config and management. That’s not the case anymore. Right? These are really complex situations.

Vince Menzione [00:10:31]:

They are.

Janet Schijns [00:10:32]:

And so the partnering, I actually think the next CEOs will come from the CPO.

Vince Menzione [00:10:38]:

Well

Janet Schijns [00:10:39]:

yes. Partnering is so embedded now in what the go to market motion for every company truly needs to be.

Vince Menzione [00:10:51]:

We’re excited to announce ultimate partner live executive summit, October 22nd 23rd in Las Colinas, Texas. We’re bringing back the event that we hosted last year, but in a new facility with state of the art capabilities and live streaming. This is your opportunity to engage with other technology leaders to learn the what, why, and how to achieve your greatest results partnering with Microsoft and other tech giants. Featuring leadership tracks, fireside chats, and workshops designed to help you achieve more. Why do you believe that CEO needs to be a partner leader?

Janet Schijns [00:11:34]:

Well, because I think I want the audience to think about 10 years ago when we started saying every company is a tech company.

Vince Menzione [00:11:39]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:11:40]:

Right? Car companies stopped being car companies. They started being tech companies. Right? Tesla was iPhone. Companies were everybody’s a tech company.

Vince Menzione [00:11:48]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:11:48]:

And that’s become true. Right? Every company is primarily led by tech. COVID sped that up.

Vince Menzione [00:11:53]:

Or a platform company.

Janet Schijns [00:11:54]:

Or a platform company within being a tech company.

Vince Menzione [00:11:56]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:11:57]:

But it was like, hey. Everybody’s a tech company. Now everybody’s a partnering company. So that’s the next evolution. We’re only at the tip of that evolution. Yeah. We’re not somewhere where it it’s advanced yet. Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:12:09]:

And so what’s happening By

Vince Menzione [00:12:10]:

the way, new jobs, new opportunities for those of us who are in the tech world to venture outside of traditional tech. Gosh.

Janet Schijns [00:12:17]:

We we’ve been on conversations, you know, with Lynn and health care and others, and everybody’s partnering. Now what’s interesting about that is some companies, and you know I’m talking about you if I’m talking about you, they’ve just named their channel chief CPO because you’re supposed to have a CPO. Yes. Much like what happened initially when everybody became a tech company, they named CTOs.

Vince Menzione [00:12:36]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:12:37]:

And many times the CTO was just their CIO with a fancy new branding.

Vince Menzione [00:12:40]:

And in

Janet Schijns [00:12:40]:

fact, you saw a lot of people do CIO, CTO. 10 years before that, we saw the same thing with CISOs. Right? Originally, the CISO was just some guy who knew about security. Right? Then it became

Vince Menzione [00:12:50]:

Bob in the closet

Janet Schijns [00:12:51]:

back in the day. Bob manages our McAfee licenses. Right? Okay. Let’s make him do so. And then it became a career, a profession, and a very difficult one. And the same with CTO, and now they think the same with CPO. So we’re probably in year 2 of this trend, and it’s a 10 year get to

Vince Menzione [00:13:09]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:13:10]:

Maximum capacity ability. And so I think what you’re gonna see is a lot of failures in the current CPOs, the same way we saw when CMOs started.

Vince Menzione [00:13:19]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:13:19]:

CMO started the average tenure was a year. Right? Because everybody thought, I know, oh, we need a CMO marketing. We’ll just get somebody’s better.

Vince Menzione [00:13:26]:

That’s right. Somebody was good with Marketo.

Janet Schijns [00:13:27]:

Right. We’re gonna we’re gonna make them a CMO. Like, this is good. That person’s good at arts and crafts. They’ll be good at this too.

Vince Menzione [00:13:32]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:13:32]:

Not so much. And so we’re seeing the same thing now with the CPO, and the skills are very different. Right? The channel chief is about sales, about partner management. Right? And it’s down. I’m managing you, mister partner, missus partner.

Vince Menzione [00:13:47]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:13:48]:

The CPO is about managing up, sideways, down, you know, spinning in circles saying, how do we put something together that’s so exquisite for our customers through our partnerships with both our customers and our providers and our partners that we can’t be beat we can’t be replicated and then turn that into a partnering platform, if you will. I think the 2 end up kinda

Vince Menzione [00:14:12]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:14:12]:

Smudging together and make something that is I can’t think of another word. I said it already, but I’ll say it again, exquisite for our customers. Yeah. And we are very early days in that.

Vince Menzione [00:14:22]:

Very early days. And, you know, we talked about Microsoft being prescient and being a harbinger of things. Microsoft has been good at doing this internally. Some of that is organizational. We’ll talk a little bit more about that. But some of it you know, I talk about things like mindset Yeah. Commitment, trust, and execution is 4 areas. When we talk about this CPO role Mhmm.

Vince Menzione [00:14:41]:

That I think we need a lot of work here.

Janet Schijns [00:14:43]:

We need a lot of work.

Vince Menzione [00:14:45]:

Go back to Greg. And, Greg, you’re getting a lot of kudos here today. But I think about the ability that in we talked about the influence strategy and the ability to be credible, to have trust

Janet Schijns [00:14:55]:

Right.

Vince Menzione [00:14:55]:

With that leader, that partner leader.

Janet Schijns [00:14:57]:

Correct.

Vince Menzione [00:14:58]:

It cannot be the person who was the channel chief last week. Now it’s just changing their title.

Janet Schijns [00:15:02]:

Well and that’s we’re seeing that. Right? We’re seeing people say, hey. Let’s do that. And what I’m trying to explain explain or or help the c suite and the board, I sit on several boards. Right? And having that conversation, being asked to present to other boards, being asked to be an adviser to a board on this topic is it’s not about routes to market.

Vince Menzione [00:15:19]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:15:20]:

That’s been true. Now not not to say you’re not gonna have routes to market. Right? Of course, you are.

Vince Menzione [00:15:25]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:15:25]:

But your strategy for partnering is not about routes routes to market. It’s about commercialization of innovation.

Vince Menzione [00:15:32]:

Yes.

Janet Schijns [00:15:33]:

How will you commercialize innovation amongst your ecosystem? And that starts with a trust ecosystem. So who will you treat as a partner? And this gets them every time as well and as poorly as you treat your own employees.

Vince Menzione [00:15:47]:

Wow.

Janet Schijns [00:15:47]:

Because a good partner should be a part of your team.

Vince Menzione [00:15:51]:

Yeah. What’s the answer you get when you ask that question?

Janet Schijns [00:15:53]:

We can’t do that. Then you’re not ready. You’re not not

Vince Menzione [00:15:56]:

ready for that.

Janet Schijns [00:15:56]:

You’re not ready.

Vince Menzione [00:15:57]:

Right.

Janet Schijns [00:15:57]:

Right? So how do you make that happen? How do you make it so that your partners I want people to be confused about who works for which brand. Yes. This is Right?

Vince Menzione [00:16:05]:

This is the joint value proposition.

Janet Schijns [00:16:08]:

Through integration. Right? And it’s multiple parties.

Vince Menzione [00:16:11]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:16:11]:

And so what we’re seeing now is some heroes. We’re starting to see the alliance manager who has long been tasked with this

Vince Menzione [00:16:18]:

Yeah. This

Janet Schijns [00:16:18]:

webbed weird

Vince Menzione [00:16:20]:

Fuzzy role.

Janet Schijns [00:16:21]:

Fuzzy role of press releases and product releases and trying to manage one of your biggest customers slash partner slash developer slash slash

Vince Menzione [00:16:31]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:16:31]:

They’re starting to rise up as heroes because this kind of nebulous territory has been something that they’ve they’ve broken their teeth on.

Vince Menzione [00:16:38]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:16:39]:

Right? And they they do have a little more ability to work in the gray zone, and that’s the key. The channel chief, a lot of times and some of them will retrain. Some of them will retrain and be fine. I have no doubt of that. There’s always the exceptions. But the rule is the channel chiefs have been in a black and white arena for a long time.

Vince Menzione [00:16:55]:

And a lot of it is the vendor partner role or vendor channel

Janet Schijns [00:16:59]:

role Correct.

Vince Menzione [00:17:00]:

Which is more one-sided.

Janet Schijns [00:17:01]:

Correct. And I am not, so that the audience hears me, not saying that the channel chief role goes immediately away tomorrow overnight. No. Because that would

Vince Menzione [00:17:08]:

be primary function.

Janet Schijns [00:17:09]:

Right. It’s a primary function. Yeah. It’s like it would be like saying your direct sales leader’s role is gonna go away. Of course, that’s not gonna go away. Right. So any significant route to market that you have is still gonna have a sales leader.

Vince Menzione [00:17:20]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:17:21]:

Right? That makes sense. It’s the layer above that. It’s the understanding that you could be in a in a sale. Yep. Right? There could be 37, as I mentioned earlier, partners.

Vince Menzione [00:17:31]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:17:32]:

And so in that scenario, you don’t get to be in charge. And this is the hardest conversation I have because the the c suite is so used to, we’re going to let the channel sell that product. We’re going to give the channel this discount or give the channel this commission. We’re gonna block the channel, always my least favorite discussion, from key accounts because we own them. News alert, no one owns an account. Want the audience to hear that. But those tenants

Vince Menzione [00:17:59]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:18:00]:

Right? They don’t work in a partnering world.

Vince Menzione [00:18:03]:

And this is where mindset

Janet Schijns [00:18:04]:

sales world.

Vince Menzione [00:18:05]:

This is where the shift in mindset has

Janet Schijns [00:18:07]:

to happen. Very hard because then and especially my friends in the European markets. Right? They’re they don’t like stories. Americans like stories.

Vince Menzione [00:18:13]:

Or storytellers.

Janet Schijns [00:18:14]:

They want, like, metrics and measurements. And, like, how am I supposed to measure that? And what I say to them is, look. I read your last 10 press releases where you made an announcement mega megacosm. My term, megacosm. Right? Right. Name your megacosm of partners because I do believe it’s gonna be a megacosm. It is.

Vince Menzione [00:18:26]:

Forgot ecosystem,

Janet Schijns [00:18:27]:

it’s gonna be a megacosm. Like, it’s this is where

Vince Menzione [00:18:30]:

we’re going. We went channel sales We’re talking unit

Janet Schijns [00:18:36]:

partnering ecosystem, megacosm. Yeah. So you’re gonna go with a megacosm strategy. And your metrics already are messed up because I took your last 10 press releases, and then I went and talked to your head of sales. And I said, they announced 10 things. Oh, with IBM, we’re doing this. We’re doing this with Microsoft. We’re right? All over the news.

Janet Schijns [00:18:56]:

How many sales did you make? Not very many.

Vince Menzione [00:18:59]:

Goose goose eggs.

Janet Schijns [00:19:00]:

6. Yeah. And so you’ve been doing these press releases. You have been in effect partnering. You haven’t figured out how to commercialize that.

Vince Menzione [00:19:08]:

That’s right. And That’s where the alliance leader, the check the chief revenue officer, the CFO. This is where everybody. So this is that whole influence strategy bringing corralling that whole

Janet Schijns [00:19:18]:

Correct.

Vince Menzione [00:19:18]:

Group together in the right in fact,

Janet Schijns [00:19:20]:

like really wanna see everybody’s eyes roll

Vince Menzione [00:19:22]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:19:22]:

Then you start to talk about, okay. So advocates, who might be your advocates? Who else is there? Who else did you partner with? Some of them are very unnatural. They’re not who you would naturally think. And who are your detractors? And they’re like detractors. What do you mean? So I was just at CCA, Cloud Communication Alliance. Great event, by the way. Yep. I was talking with a group of CEOs and CROs, and I brought this up and they were like detractors.

Janet Schijns [00:19:43]:

What do you mean? And I said, okay. You all do stuff that’s, you know, aiding collaboration and communication. Do you not think the CSO is a detractor for you sometimes or whoever their security consultant is is a detractor for them making progress?

Vince Menzione [00:19:56]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:19:57]:

Oh, yeah. And how about the website guy? Whoever’s running their website in ecommerce, do you not think the website ecommerce provider is not a detractor for your service? You’re saying we could put chat bots in. They have their own approach to it. Your call center application, your c cast application fails.

Vince Menzione [00:20:13]:

Do you

Janet Schijns [00:20:14]:

really think they like you when they just did a web campaign and they’re getting judged on ROI? You have detract natural detractors.

Vince Menzione [00:20:19]:

It’s fascinating.

Janet Schijns [00:20:20]:

So partnering is not just about the positivity.

Vince Menzione [00:20:22]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:20:22]:

Right? It’s also about the negativity and how do you manage the negativity. How do you lower the noise and the friction in the system? And that’s why I think they will be the next CEO because as every company becomes a partnering company, every company starts to learn to manage the megacosm. The person who won, they’re gonna be the most hotly pursued CEO ever.

Vince Menzione [00:20:41]:

I agree. I agree. So, we could riff all day

Janet Schijns [00:20:45]:

on this topic. I

Vince Menzione [00:20:46]:

mean, we can talk about mindset, execution, executive commitment because that’s this all ties into this. There’s a topic we’re gonna talk about together. I’ve been talking about quite a bit. We’ve been talking about the tectonic shifts. What we’ve been seeing at the again, the c CEO becoming the new CIO Yep. And how that’s impacting these cloud decisions. Right? You know, you come out of the telco world. Vodafone just signed a was it a 1,000,000,000 and a half dollar commitment with Microsoft?

Janet Schijns [00:21:13]:

Yes. They did. And I

Vince Menzione [00:21:14]:

know the person who executed it.

Janet Schijns [00:21:15]:

And they’re all doing that.

Vince Menzione [00:21:16]:

They’re all

Janet Schijns [00:21:16]:

doing that. This is all this is happening. Yes.

Vince Menzione [00:21:18]:

It’s happening. So now I’m in the line of business, and I’ve got this huge cloud commitment in a company, and I’m talking to an ISV or a security company or, know, somebody, MS whatever whatever the role is. I wanna I wanna cobble it together. We’re talking about the whole marketplace concept here. Right? And then last year and Jay talked about this in in our conversation. 5 organizations got to a $1,000,000,000 or more with AWS, which made it AWS with the 5th largest distributor.

Janet Schijns [00:21:45]:

I think it did. Yeah. And I think they’re on their way to 4th this year.

Vince Menzione [00:21:48]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that changes July. That changes things.

Janet Schijns [00:21:52]:

You’re nervous if you’re in distribution.

Vince Menzione [00:21:54]:

You are nervous. And and somebody asked me yesterday, I won’t mention the name of the company, but it was somebody asking me for advice from one of the large hyperscalers, was about what what what happens to distribution for us? What do we think about with distribution? So we can go in a lot of different directions here. A lot

Janet Schijns [00:22:08]:

of different directions. And I think

Vince Menzione [00:22:10]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:22:10]:

You know, the key to me with marketplaces is they’re not a panacea. Right? You can’t just say, hey. We’re gonna go on the Amazon Marketplace or the Microsoft market and be done because you’ve got health care companies that have very specific requirements. Yes. You have highly regulated industries like utilities and Telcos. And Telcos. Right? And so I am seeing that not only are the hyperscaler marketplaces coming up, but so are the specialized marketplaces coming up. So you’re starting to see the Cerner’s and McKesson’s and other and health care, right, kind of rising up.

Janet Schijns [00:22:39]:

You see Workday and Salesforce and others. And so I think there’s going to be to go back to our channel experience, almost like a triangle of marketplaces, right, that says, okay. At the top, you’re gonna have your hyperscalers for specific broad based, marketplace, and then you’re gonna have specialized marketplace and then hyper specialized marketplace.

Vince Menzione [00:22:58]:

This ties into your megacosm too if you think about it from that perspective because you have the hyperscalers, and then you have the galaxies and

Janet Schijns [00:23:05]:

the solar system. Exactly. And it kinda comes into this megacosm. And so and instead of being a triangle, it’ll kind of be a big circle. Right? It kind of squeezes together. But what we see is that the folks that are ignoring that trend and we do see it. Right? And Yeah. I’m sure you see it too.

Janet Schijns [00:23:21]:

I do. Hey. That’s not gonna be us. It is

Vince Menzione [00:23:23]:

A lot of the large ISVs still, by the way, because because they don’t wanna disrupt their channels of distribution. They’re just

Janet Schijns [00:23:28]:

distributors that.

Vince Menzione [00:23:29]:

And the 31,000 partners downstream on the long long tail.

Janet Schijns [00:23:33]:

But what I would say is, and I’m gonna say it to the audience, it’s an and strategy. It’s not an or. Yeah. Right? So it’s an and strategy. It’s I have a traditional channel. I have a traditional distribution. Let’s face it. Right? Bread’s just bread without a toaster.

Janet Schijns [00:23:46]:

Can’t be toast. So there’s hardware. There’s gonna be hardware. Right? That that’s just reality.

Vince Menzione [00:23:50]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:23:51]:

But there’s also gonna be marketplaces, and your customers like buying from them. And so we’re seeing more and more, I think, what I saw last week. I think it was from Tackle. It might not might have been somebody else. It was 21% of the deals were being done by a partner.

Vince Menzione [00:24:04]:

Yeah. It could have been. I don’t know if they didn’t see the tack of research.

Janet Schijns [00:24:07]:

And Microsoft is empowering that.

Vince Menzione [00:24:09]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:24:09]:

So we’re gonna see an end strategy here.

Vince Menzione [00:24:12]:

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Vince Menzione [00:25:11]:

So lots of numbers coming out with regards to marketplace. Right? Our our good friend Jay and the Canales organization said 45,000,000,000 by the end of 2025. They said that they’ve under called it. Tackle, who you just mentioned, right, who’s actually gonna be here for our event in here on May 30th, in fact. Little plug for our May 30th event. Dallas. They’re saying a 100,000,000,000 by the end of 2026.

Janet Schijns [00:25:33]:

Yep. I’ve seen that number too.

Vince Menzione [00:25:34]:

So are we in a hype phase? Because I’ve been talking about the marketplace moment, and I’ll I’ll be self inflicted maybe that I’m helping to create some of the hype speaking on stage at the at the channel partners event and some other places about this that everyone needs to get on board. But is it a hype phase?

Janet Schijns [00:25:49]:

There are certainly gonna be winners and losers. Right? So you might pick wrong in a marketplace. You might pick the wrong strategy, but it’s not a hype. It’s just early adopter phase. Right? And and I know for some people listening, they’re like, we’ve been on a marketplace for 5 years. It’s not early adopter. It still is pretty early in the adoption

Vince Menzione [00:26:07]:

early adoption.

Janet Schijns [00:26:08]:

Cycle. And so who’s gonna win and who’s gonna lose? And I think we all can say Microsoft’s definitely gonna win at the hyperscale or Amazon and Google.

Vince Menzione [00:26:14]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:26:15]:

Right? They you know, they they’ve they’ve got so much investment.

Vince Menzione [00:26:18]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:26:18]:

And the other thing that we’re many times failing to realize is that with Gen AI, there’s almost this big bang moment coming where Gen AI uses so much compute power. Quantum computing leaps on top of that, and all of a sudden, the most precious thing in the world to every company becomes power. Yeah. Because you gotta power those data centers for all that compute power. Yep. And so what we’re seeing is Amazon now the number one provider of alternate energy. Yep. Right? Microsoft talking about power.

Vince Menzione [00:26:48]:

They’re they’re putting their data centers near power in your high and dry.

Janet Schijns [00:26:51]:

Seen $1,000,000,000,000,000,000 contracts for power from the hyperscalers happening in the coming years. And what’ll happen is they will eat up the power.

Vince Menzione [00:27:01]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:27:02]:

So even if you’re a specialized marketplace, you will end up in a hyperscaler marketplace just from a consumption of power standpoint because there will be no power left.

Vince Menzione [00:27:13]:

And layer on top of that, like Microsoft last year, $32,000,000,000 in cloud build out.

Janet Schijns [00:27:18]:

Right.

Vince Menzione [00:27:19]:

They’re spending each of the hyperscalers is spending an inordinate amount of their investment dollars on chips right now.

Janet Schijns [00:27:25]:

That’s right.

Vince Menzione [00:27:25]:

They’re buying Nvidia stock is where it is.

Janet Schijns [00:27:27]:

Right. They’re buying up processing capacity. Yeah. Achilles’ heel is power, so they’re buying up power. 2nd Achilles’ heel is chips. Right? Because we saw what happened during COVID.

Vince Menzione [00:27:37]:

Absolutely.

Janet Schijns [00:27:37]:

Got Intel building a monolithic chip manufacturer in Ohio that will still only do about 2 or 3% of the chips that are needed. Yeah.

Vince Menzione [00:27:44]:

And we need a lot more chip capacity here in the United States. What what’s happening in the in China and and Taiwan right now is still

Janet Schijns [00:27:52]:

Still very

Vince Menzione [00:27:53]:

far

Janet Schijns [00:27:53]:

with peril. Right? And so I think you’re gonna see a world where it’s not always the best solution that wins. It’s often the person that dealt with risk best. And in fact, when we go in and do our market action planning practice, shameless plug, it’s a great program. Our market action planning actually starts with failure first.

Vince Menzione [00:28:12]:

Failure first.

Janet Schijns [00:28:12]:

So what would be the things that would make you fail? How would you fail? How would your biggest competitor kill you? What would happen? What and, by the way, it’s a depressing structure. It’s a I’m not saying it’s not By

Vince Menzione [00:28:22]:

the way, the military organizations go through this strategy exercise. Right?

Janet Schijns [00:28:26]:

Fail first.

Vince Menzione [00:28:27]:

Fail fast. Right?

Janet Schijns [00:28:28]:

So so we do fail first, and it opens up. You watch the aperture and people’s brains open up around partnering particularly. Right? And in the marketplace world

Vince Menzione [00:28:39]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:28:40]:

Around how they’re gonna handle partnering in a marketplace driven customer self serve world, and they start to realize that their failure points are very different than their failure points would have been for channel sales.

Vince Menzione [00:28:52]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:28:53]:

Right? Channel sales was, oh, there’s another vendor comes in. The partner likes their program better. They pay more. Right? Those were the failure conversations. Now the failure conversations are somebody inks an exclusive partnership with somebody else, and we don’t have access anymore.

Vince Menzione [00:29:05]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:29:06]:

And our customers turn because all their money unless, remember, that’s how the marketplace works.

Vince Menzione [00:29:10]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:29:11]:

CIO puts money into it.

Vince Menzione [00:29:13]:

A cloud payment.

Janet Schijns [00:29:14]:

A commitment, credits, whatever that specific marketplace calls it, and you then get forced into that funnel.

Vince Menzione [00:29:21]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:29:21]:

And so when we do our failure planning, a lot of times, that’s how marketplaces then becomes in their plan. So when we do the optimistic planning and by the way, for everybody listening, you race to a crisis, you walk to an opportunity. It’s human nature. So when we talk about opportunity, it’s always how do we grow 30%, how do we grow a 100%, how do we right? What how do we do this? You start talking about failure, all of a sudden it’s, oh, shoot. Yeah. And all of a sudden What’s

Vince Menzione [00:29:46]:

our contingency planning? Plan again. Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:29:47]:

So during the optimistic portion, marketplace was down low in the top ten for a lot of the boards and CEOs. When you start talking failure avoidance, marketplaces pops up

Vince Menzione [00:29:57]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:29:58]:

Way up into the top 5, top 3, top 2 for Menyorg.

Vince Menzione [00:30:01]:

And this makes the alliance leader more relevant to the conversation more relevant. Because they’ve had the relationships with the Microsoft, Amazon, Synodos.

Janet Schijns [00:30:09]:

Tentacles in there. They know where to knock on what doors.

Vince Menzione [00:30:12]:

And then the conversation about placing your bets across all 3. Correct. On all 3 sets of rails.

Janet Schijns [00:30:18]:

Correct. And then we start having the conversation about how do you operate. How what’s your operating model in that? That’s right. Right?

Vince Menzione [00:30:24]:

That’s the piece where I feel that most ISVs at least struggle.

Janet Schijns [00:30:28]:

Struggle. And the first thing I always tell an HR loves me for this one. First thing I always tell them is you gotta get away from thinking of your operating model like an org chart.

Vince Menzione [00:30:36]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:30:37]:

I want you to think of it like a deck of cards. Mhmm. And you can play any number of games with a deck of cards. Right? You can play Rummy. You can play hard.

Vince Menzione [00:30:45]:

Thought about that Harry.

Janet Schijns [00:30:46]:

You can play whatever you want. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But it’s a deck of cards. And in the deck of cards, you gotta have kings and queens and aces and right. But you can play a different game with that. So it’s less about organization structure and more about the plays you’re trying to make

Vince Menzione [00:31:01]:

I love

Janet Schijns [00:31:02]:

it. That deck of cards. Right. And it really changes how people start thinking because they’re like, oh, that changes who my aces are. Right? That changes who your this partnering strategy changes who you today, your aces are CEO, CFO, CSO, CIO, CMO. Right? You got your aces. Right?

Vince Menzione [00:31:18]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:31:19]:

But they’re not your ACEs anymore. So now how do you manage in an org chart when your ACE is the alliance manager who’s been there for 20 years and knows where everybody is buried at the biggest hyperscaler? So that’s the it’s really becoming an interesting full bodied conversation around operating model when we do our market action planning days.

Vince Menzione [00:31:40]:

Do you wind up with a new org?

Janet Schijns [00:31:42]:

Yeah. You wind up with a new org Yeah. Or at least a shadow org strategy. Because operating model and that’s where I love everyone, but that’s where a lot of companies start with org model Yeah. And then they try to push operating model into it. Just start in the market action planning to start with

Vince Menzione [00:31:57]:

It’s like stuffing operating model. Stuffing people or or process into it.

Janet Schijns [00:32:01]:

Right. And so I’ve you know, I I think that that world of partnering is gonna get away from that command and control finally in corporate. Yeah.

Vince Menzione [00:32:09]:

We are almost at the midpoint of 2024 already. I can’t believe it. Like, it was just New Year’s Eve here.

Janet Schijns [00:32:15]:

Like that. And Florida wish you happy New Year 7 seconds ago.

Vince Menzione [00:32:17]:

Exactly. Exactly. How should we each prepare? What should we be doing differently going into the second half of this year? What what what great advice or strategy,

Janet Schijns [00:32:28]:

that you can great question. We had a silent recession in 23.

Vince Menzione [00:32:32]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:32:33]:

I’m talking to you. Right? You all know it’s true. We just didn’t talk about it in the

Vince Menzione [00:32:37]:

Economic headwinds. 470,000 people laid off last year. Right?

Janet Schijns [00:32:41]:

Right. And we’re, I think, in you know, if you watch, layoffs. Io, I think we’re over a 100,000 already this year in the tech space and

Vince Menzione [00:32:49]:

the start of the space. Not over.

Janet Schijns [00:32:50]:

It’s not over. No. In fact, the big ones are just starting. Right? Tesla yesterday. Right? So I think the economic uncertainty continues at least through 25. I don’t care what the pundits say. Right? You’ll at least you’re gonna see a pop because of the election.

Vince Menzione [00:33:03]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:33:03]:

Get ready. If you need to get a mortgage, get ready. Yep. Because you’ll have a little window right before November where things will come down.

Vince Menzione [00:33:10]:

Insurance. Right? The interest rates will come down again.

Janet Schijns [00:33:12]:

Right. So just personal advice. Get ready.

Vince Menzione [00:33:14]:

Refinance if you’re ready to do that too.

Janet Schijns [00:33:16]:

High rate time, right about October. On top of that, we’re gonna see tech continue to grow.

Vince Menzione [00:33:25]:

Yes.

Janet Schijns [00:33:25]:

It’s just where it’s growing and where it’s declining. Right? We’re gonna see generative AI really swap out, finance teams, core repetitive task teams, contact centers. So we’re gonna hear these big numbers, 30% laid off, 25% laid off. Right? But it’s gonna be in those routine tasks, easy to replace with a machine area.

Vince Menzione [00:33:46]:

Yes.

Janet Schijns [00:33:47]:

And any partner who’s not involved in generative AI, not using generative AI as an understand it, will be making a huge mistake.

Vince Menzione [00:33:54]:

Huge mistake.

Janet Schijns [00:33:54]:

Basically signing their termination papers.

Vince Menzione [00:33:56]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:33:57]:

We’re gonna see marketplaces continue to rise. The biggest reason is because it lets you compare and contrast offers

Vince Menzione [00:34:02]:

That’s right.

Janet Schijns [00:34:03]:

And manage costs.

Vince Menzione [00:34:04]:

Manage costs.

Janet Schijns [00:34:05]:

And in the current financial environment

Vince Menzione [00:34:06]:

Streamlines the process. Streamlines the

Janet Schijns [00:34:08]:

process, manage cost is a good thing. Yep. The third thing we’re gonna see and we continue to see, marketing is leading the way in sales. Yeah. The firms that get it, and we just finished a a study on this. The top growth firms in our industry invested more in marketing and got more leads from marketing than the bottom growth companies who were still trying to push the sales mantle. Right? Hire more salespeople. Hire more salespeople.

Janet Schijns [00:34:30]:

This is a failing play.

Vince Menzione [00:34:32]:

It is a failing play.

Janet Schijns [00:34:33]:

You could, in fact, and we have the data to prove it, let go of half of your sales team. Spend half of that money so you’re still saving money on marketing and double your sales.

Vince Menzione [00:34:43]:

Absolutely.

Janet Schijns [00:34:43]:

This is the world we’re moving into. Right? Self serve world where people learn on their own, and marketing is who helps us.

Vince Menzione [00:34:49]:

So we’re

Janet Schijns [00:34:50]:

gonna see this huge pump in marketing. And then we’re going to begin to see the pushback on partnering.

Vince Menzione [00:34:54]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:34:55]:

Interesting. Before you push through any innovation

Vince Menzione [00:34:58]:

You’re gonna get the resistance.

Janet Schijns [00:34:59]:

You get the resistance. Right? That’s how you know you’re there.

Vince Menzione [00:35:01]:

Yeah.

Janet Schijns [00:35:02]:

Right? A little like, when there’s no resistance, you’re not there yet. We’re gonna see I think it’s gonna be early for

Vince Menzione [00:35:07]:

We’re birthing. We’re birthing. Birthing.

Janet Schijns [00:35:09]:

End of 24, beginning of 25, you’re gonna see some massive pushback on partnering.

Vince Menzione [00:35:14]:

Yep.

Janet Schijns [00:35:15]:

Right? A a little like no. Right? No. And then it’s gonna pump through, and it’s gonna be I

Vince Menzione [00:35:20]:

can’t wait for that day. I can’t wait for that day.

Janet Schijns [00:35:22]:

Crazy. So if you’re not partner enabled, get there.

Vince Menzione [00:35:26]:

Yeah. I love it, Janet. You are so so good to have you here.

Janet Schijns [00:35:29]:

Oh, thank you for having me.

Vince Menzione [00:35:31]:

Well, we’re gonna do this again. Yes. So, we’re gonna get you back here in the studio.

Janet Schijns [00:35:35]:

Would love to be nice

Vince Menzione [00:35:36]:

to have you. Janet Shines. If you don’t know her, you need to know her. The JS Group is it was formerly known. Yes. Our incredible organization.

Janet Schijns [00:35:44]:

Now dot com, if you’d like to see our

Vince Menzione [00:35:46]:

And, an amazing friend. And so so good to have you here.

Janet Schijns [00:35:48]:

So great

Vince Menzione [00:35:48]:

to be

Janet Schijns [00:35:49]:

here with you.

Vince Menzione [00:35:49]:

I love what you’re doing. Thank you

Janet Schijns [00:35:50]:

for everything you’re doing to champion and save the channel.

Vince Menzione [00:35:53]:

Thank you. And you’re a mutual admirer as well. We really appreciate you. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Ultimate Guide to Partnering. Hopefully, this episode and all the episodes we’ve recorded are helping you better align your partner strategy to achieve your greatest results. So I wanna ask you something.

Vince Menzione [00:36:11]:

Have you implemented everything you’ve been learning? And are you now achieving the growth and revenue objectives that you hope to achieve? If not, it’s time to take action now. Join ultimate partner experience. We’re building the community I’ve always dreamed about. With UPX, you get access to exclusive industry insights, unparalleled networking opportunities, tons of educational resources, and support from a community that shares your goals. Join us now. Visit our website, the ultimate partner.com, and sign up today.

Steven Pivnik, Entrepreneur & Founder, Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

Steven Pivnik is a highly accomplished serial entrepreneur and CEO of a leading Microsoft partner, renowned for his ability to apply a growth mindset and agility in leadership. With a sharp focus on innovation and results, Steven has led his company to success, demonstrating what it means to embrace challenges and drive meaningful progress. His expertise in guiding businesses to achieve their greatest potential has made him a sought-after leader and visionary in the tech industry.

In his new book, “Built to Finish”, Steven chronicles his entrepreneurial journey, offering valuable insights into the strategies and mindset that helped him scale new heights. His story is one of perseverance, leadership, and a commitment to continuous improvement, providing readers with practical lessons on navigating modern business complexities. Through his experience, Steven Pivnik continues inspiring leaders to think big and act purposefully.

What You’ll Learn From This Episode:

• Steven on Creativity & AI: Creativity is key in product design, go-to-market strategies, and culture. AI can significantly boost creativity.
  [00:00:00]
• Vince’s Introduction & Steven’s Background: Steven Pivnik, entrepreneur, author of “Built to Finish,” and endurance sports enthusiast, shares his journey of building a company and competing in Ironman.
  [00:01:29]
• Entrepreneurship & Endurance Sports: The book parallels the grit and determination needed for both business and athletic achievements.
  [00:04:06]
• Partnering with IBM & Microsoft: Binary Tree’s strategic shift from IBM to Microsoft showcases the importance of aligning with the right partner programs and knowing when to pivot.
  [00:05:50]
• Business Challenges & Failures: Steven shares a misstep with SharePoint and the lesson learned from international expansion—having a full in-country team is key for success.
  [00:09:03, 00:10:05]
• Importance of Relationships in Partnering: Building strong, personal relationships with Microsoft team members and understanding their goals are vital for successful partnerships.
  [00:13:17]
• Coaching Entrepreneurs for Exits: After his exit from Binary Tree, Steven advises entrepreneurs with $10M+ ARR, helping overcome roadblocks and navigate toward successful exits.
  [00:14:16, 00:17:13]
• Traits for Business Success: Creativity, especially when coupled with AI, helps companies stand out. Identifying gaps in the market left by large corporations is a smart strategy.
  [00:19:28, 00:24:10]
• Upcoming Mount Everest Climb: Steven’s next adventure is climbing Mount Everest in May, with preparation focused on endurance and strength training.
  [00:25:37]
• Dream Dinner Party: Steven would invite his grandfather (for his life journey), Richard Branson (for his adventurous entrepreneurship), and a Navy SEAL (for their leadership). The party would be held in Sardinia, Italy.
  [00:27:52, 00:30:45]
• Advice to Entrepreneurs: Surround yourself with experienced mentors and team members who have operated at a higher level than your current business to accelerate growth.
  [00:34:09]
• Closing Remarks: Vince recommends “Built to Finish,” noting its inspirational story for entrepreneurs, and invites listeners to join the “Ultimate Partner Experience.”
  [00:35:27, 00:36:16]

https://youtu.be/EbZky947XVo?si=xfyqYGAPT9RL5kJG

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Ultimate Partner LIVE – Executive Summit ’24 – Now OPEN!

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This year’s summit promises to be bigger and better. It will be an immersive experience bringing together over 300+ partners across ISVs, LSPs, and SIs. Join us for two days of insightful discussions, hands-on workshops, and unparalleled networking opportunities with industry leaders and Microsoft executives.

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Keywords

Steven Pivnik, Built to Finish, growth mindset, leadership agility, serial entrepreneur, entrepreneurial success, business leadership, company growth strategies, scaling a business, leadership insights, business innovation, growth mindset in business, agility in business leadership, business transformation, entrepreneurship lessons, business leadership development, tech industry leader, how to grow a business, leadership strategies for success, successful business growth, innovation in leadership, leading with purpose, CEO insights, business success story.

Transcript

Transcript (Provided by Descript)

[00:00:00] Steven: With an AI specifically right now, I think it’s really going to help the creative. Um, so if you add in, sprinkle in a little bit of creativity into your product design, into your go to market strategies, like even into your culture, it’s going to help tremendously. 

[00:00:20] Intro: Microsoft’s purpose is in service of your purpose. And again 2024 is the year that partners come out as the leading edge of the spear on finding this buyer intent. You show up to every meeting and demonstrate why you are relevant.

[00:00:33] Intro: Every day I have to force myself to make sure that I’m taking one step ahead in terms of my own learning. 

[00:00:37] Intro: That flywheel of success is where you will build momentum and that momentum will continue and then you feed into the other systems to say this is what we did, this is how we did it together.

[00:00:48] Vince: Welcome to the ultimate guide to partnering. I’m Vince Menzione your host, and I’m on a mission to help leaders like you achieve your greatest results through successful partnering. Much of the discussion we have these days is around the tectonic shifts we’ve been seeing in our world and in our lives.

[00:01:04] Vince: We talk about the need to apply a growth mindset and agility to how leaders need to achieve their greatest results. Today I’m excited to feature a leader, a CEO of a Microsoft partner, who applied such a mindset, to take his company to the pinnacle and has chronicled his journey in his new book, Steven Pivnick is a successful serial entrepreneur.

[00:01:29] Vince: And the author of “Built to Finish”. Steven, welcome to the podcast. Vince. Thank you so much for having me. So excited to have you here in Boca Raton, Florida. We, we, you know, you love our background, right? We bought the beach right in for you. 

[00:01:40] Steven: The background is fantastic. What a great touch for, for a recording studio.

[00:01:44] Vince: Absolutely. And, uh, thank you for making the trip from New York city. 

[00:01:49] Steven: Yeah. I’m glad we were finally able to put this together. 

[00:01:50] Vince: I know it took a while. We had, uh, the airlines have not been our best friend here and getting you here. 

[00:01:54] Steven: No, not at all. For a second there, I thought like we were cursed, but I finally made it.

[00:01:59] Vince: Well, so excited to welcome you here today. You and I had the opportunity to know each other when I was leading Microsoft’s public sector business. And you were, you were leading one of the top partners working with Microsoft. And we want to talk more about that journey today. You know, we talk about the tectonic shifts we’ve been seeing in our world. And in our lives and how organizations have become agile and having to address those issues. So we’re going to tie in that conversation today But also more importantly for our listeners and our viewers today. Tell us a little bit more about Steven Pivnick.

[00:02:29] Steven: Sure, so I’m a serial entrepreneur I’m, also an endurance sports enthusiast. I’ve become addicted to ironman distance triathlons Mountaineering and ultra-marathons. And I think the two, the entrepreneurship is an endurance sport. They have a lot of similarities and, um, that’s kind of me in a nutshell.

[00:02:49] Vince: Yeah. And also an author, right? So, the genesis of this interview today is that I saw Steven announced his book “Built to Finish.” Which is the journey, both your professional journey and your athletic journey. Right. I was hoping maybe we’d spend a little bit of time on that and why you wrote the book. 

[00:03:08] Steven: So, um, as I was approaching my entrepreneurial finish line, which is basically I think most entrepreneurs want to realize the value of their creation and exit their company.

[00:03:16] Steven: So as I was approaching my exit, which was to a 4 billion competitor and selling my company to them, I was also approaching my, my, um, endurance goal of getting into the iron man world championship and competing there. So those two events actually happened about 12 months apart. And after coursing that finish line in Kona, Hawaii, I said, you know what? I want to memorialize this journey in a book. offer tips and tricks and advice with the hopes of inspiring others to set audacious goals.

[00:03:45] Vince: I love, that audacious goals. I mean, the whole, I, the whole journey in triathlon, well, both the business journey as an entrepreneur.  I’m living that myself and then also the athletic journey.

[00:03:57] Vince: So, uh, I’m hoping we’re going to, uh, dive deep into those conversations today. So do you think that, what do you see the similarities here between the two?

[00:04:06] Steven: There’s so many. Right? From the planning, preparation, execution, perseverance, setbacks, pivots, stamina, all of those can be applied to entrepreneurship and they could, it could be applied to endurance sports.

[00:04:22] Steven: So, and they all, they all feed on each other. So there’s, that’s just the beginning of the similarity list. 

[00:04:27] Vince: Yeah. And in the book, you actually draw parallels between the two, right? You take us on the journey, you’re coming to the United, your family’s coming to the United States, your early journey. The, the business journey and then you, and then you’re weaving in the, the athleticism and the journey to a triathlete.

[00:04:42] Steven: Sure. I mean, it all starts with the grind. You know, I talk about, you know, the, the grind that my parents needed to go, my parents and grandparents, you know, went through in uprooting a family from the former Soviet Union to Brooklyn, New York. And then the grind that’s necessary to start up a business and all the things that need to happen at the, in the early stages in order for you to, to make it to a point where you can actually, you know, see that finish line. Eventually,

[00:05:04] Vince: Such a great story about, you know, I like to refer to grit and determination as to like amazing factors. I got to live with my grandparents who came to this country in the 1920s and we all lived together. And I felt like I saw a lot of similarities in reading your story to my family’s journey.

[00:05:21] Vince: So it was really terrific. Uh, many of our listeners or viewers are partners, right? So this is the ultimate guide to partnering. You spent a little time in this world that we live in now, and you were very successful working with. Organizations like IBM and then Microsoft and that transition from the IBM world to the Microsoft world, which I thought was fascinating.

[00:05:40] Vince: But the journey wasn’t overnight. What experiences or best practices can you share with our viewers and listeners about that journey from start to exit? 

[00:05:50] Steven: Sure. Um, one of my partners used to describe us as the pilot fish that swims next to the shark, right? So, in the 90s…

 [00:05:58] Vince: I never thought of it that way. But I love it. I love the analogy.

[00:06:00] Steven: I’m not 100 percent sure that I love the analogy because we’re not, we’re just the live of somebody else. But, um, in the nineties, our, our specialty from a business partner perspective, I ran binary tree, uh, it was email, right? Um, in, in layman’s terms, we were the best email moving truck in the world.

[00:06:17] Steven: If a company needed to move an email platform from someplace to someplace else, we were that truck that got them there. Um, so in the nineties, IBM was that shark. Right. So we made sure that we latched ourselves, I’m sorry, that shark, not truck, shark. We latched ourselves onto IBM success. So that was one of our, you know, best practices.

[00:06:36] Steven: We made sure that we identified, you know, what their goals are, you know, what, um, and what they’re trying to do from a market share perspective. And we said, you know what, we’re going to help them get there. And we did. And when the tide shifted in favor of Microsoft, you know, we’re talking about like 2005 ish.

[00:06:53] Steven: Yep. And then IBM started. growing as the bigger shark in the waters, we said, you know what, you know, time to pivot and let’s go follow that shark because, um, it, the grass is going to be greener over there. And boy, was it. 

[00:07:07] Vince: Yeah. I remember the move from Lotus notes to the Microsoft platform. Yeah. And it was, and it was huge.

[00:07:13] Vince: And Microsoft spent a lot of time there. And then of course, Microsoft moved everybody to on, to the cloud, right? So there was that additional… 

[00:07:22] Steven: Like I said, as long as there was movement, we were happy because we facilitated all of those email changes for a variety of use cases. Like you mentioned, there’s several others.

[00:07:30] Vince: Well, let’s dive in more on the Microsoft side since IBM probably is less relevant today to some of our listeners. But like, what was that like to work with Microsoft? What were some of the learnings you can share? For partners starting out or really earlier in their journey now, like what, what were some observations you had and how did you learn to swim alongside them?

[00:07:51] Steven: Sure. Um, I hope I’m not insulting Microsoft in any way, shape or form because at the end of the day, they were the best partner in the world to have. Um, but I’ve heard this saying, and it’s kind of true. You can go out of business doing business with Microsoft. Yes. Yes. Microsoft has a million and one initiatives.

[00:08:05] Steven: And I think the biggest challenge business partners have today is figuring out which one of these initiatives they want to latch themselves onto. Because if you don’t choose wisely, you can go, you may go out, you won’t go, it’s not guaranteed to go out of business, but you may, right? So, you know, choosing wisely, um, from these, all of these initiatives because they have part, they have programs, you know, around the globe, around every single, um, stack of theirs, every single technology, um, product.

[00:08:31] Steven: And it changes every year. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So latching onto the right one and knowing if and when to change is probably one of the biggest challenges business partners are faced with. 

[00:08:41] Vince: It’s fascinating because we talk about a set of operating principles around what makes successful partnering. The seventh and last principle is agility and the ability to learn and know intuitively when to pivot.

[00:08:52] Vince: Right, and I think that’s exactly what you’re talking about here. Give can you give us an example from, from your experience there, like was there, was there a chance that you had a, that you had a pivot with Microsoft that you can share? 

[00:09:03] Steven: Yeah, I mean, there was more, on more than one occasion, we had some full starts around SharePoint.

[00:09:09] Steven: And I’m not blaming Microsoft, I’m blaming ourselves because maybe we just, SharePoint is such a, you know, why is such a big beast? Yes. There’s a lot of things that you can do around SharePoint and maybe we chose incorrectly and we just, we, we were, we were so successful with exchange. And then Office 365.

[00:09:23] Steven: We wanted to replicate that success with SharePoint. And We couldn’t. So one of many failures, right? And again, maybe we didn’t latch on to the right program or the right component of SharePoint, or maybe our technology wasn’t as good as our email technology was. But that was one of the, um, the oops, the multiple oops that we had in our business journey.

[00:09:43] Vince: Were there any significant, I mean, that was one pitfall specifically. Was there anything else during that period of time? Like you took this company on a very successful journey, a very successful outcome, uh, and exit to Quest, which we also know. Uh, we know some of the, uh, former Quest folks as well. Um, was there anything else along that journey that you can share with our listeners? Some learnings there?

[00:10:05] Steven: Yeah. One, one, one of the ones that come to mind is our international expansion, right? Because our forte was dealing with the largest customers on the planet. Like if you threw a dart at the fortune 5, 000 list with your eyes closed, Pretty good chance to get a land on a customer of ours.

[00:10:20] Steven: Most of these companies are international. So that, that kind of dragged us overseas. And in some countries we had great success in other countries, not so much. And I attributed that to, um, kind of the U S mentality of, as long as you have a body, you know, in that continent, you’ll be fine. Like for instance, in the continent, in the continent.

[00:10:38] Steven: So which, which, which was a huge mistake for, for example, Germany. Which is the biggest market in Europe. Um, we had a salesperson in Germany, but the rest of the staff that’s necessary for a project, the solution architect, the consultant, the support engineer, et cetera, et cetera, they were in other countries.

[00:10:54] Steven: So we had minimal success in Germany in the beginning versus France where we had an entire team there. Our sales executive, our solutions architect, our consulting services manager, our support engineer, you know, five of the five touch points that a customer would have with us was in country. Speaking the same language, understanding that culture, you can guess our success in France was awesome.

[00:11:17] Vince: You know, it’s funny that you mentioned that because I see similarities, organizations that try to come into the North American and U. S. market, and they might land in a place let’s say like Canada or even like French Canada like Montreal, right, and expect that they’re gonna cover the U.S. market in California and Florida and places like this. Uh, same, same, same similarities, right? Culturally so different than the market here in the United States.

[00:11:42] Steven: Yeah. So that was one of the many pitfalls. If I had to do it again, it would be a team per country. And, um, you’d be, we would have been a lot more successful quicker.

[00:11:52] Steven: I mean, we eventually got there. We figured, we figured out what the differences were and we figured it out.

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[00:12:23] Vince: And you spent a lot of time and I recall even in the book like you would go out to Redmond, you’d spend some time at Microsoft headquarters. Uh, what did you see there working with the Microsoft teams that you work with? Um, you mentioned, uh, you, that, you know, working with Microsoft was, I guess, I’d say probably the biggest partner, right? They understood partner, they embraced partnering, I’d say probably more so than IBM. Um, what did you see there and were any, were there anything, were, any learnings you’d have there? Because I talk about building those personal relationships, building that brand and story, being known for the one thing, working with Microsoft. What were your experiences there with Microsoft? 

[00:13:17] Steven: You hit the nail on the head. I was going to say relationships, right? At the end of the day, businesses are built on relationships.

[00:13:23] Steven: And, um, hopefully partners aren’t penny wise and pound foolish and don’t want to get on the plane to go have lunch and or dinner and or breakfast or any sort of meeting with the people that they’re working with. You know, once you, nothing beats establishing that type of personal relationship. And it’s, it’s, it’s.

[00:13:41] Steven: It, it paid off for us, you know, 10 times over by getting on planes repeatedly and spending, you know, numerous, numerous, um, Um, meetings out there just to get to know people and understand, you know, um, what drives them, what their bonus on what they’re quoted on and things like that. And they don’t, they really don’t mind sharing.

[00:14:02] Steven: You just, you just have to ask. 

[00:14:03] Vince: Yeah. We talk about, you know, asking what their scorecard looks like, right? Like how are they, how are they balanced? Exactly. What are the metrics that they’re driven against? Like, and that changes every year as well. So understand, understand your scorecard and what drives success.

[00:14:16] Vince: I used to also use a term, uh, uh, how can we, what, what would it take for us to get you a red jacket at the end of the year, which was the pinnacle award, the top award for being the most successful person at Microsoft. Those people would get those red jackets. So that was always a great question to ask people.

[00:14:32] Steven: Yeah, a hundred percent. And they don’t mind sharing. Right. So they’re very, very transparent. And they’re not going to beat around the bush. And as long as you, you ask, like one of my CFOs used to say, don’t ask, don’t get. Exactly. Ask, you’ll get the answer, and then you can align your priorities with theirs.

[00:14:48] Vince: So, successful exit. You talked about some of your passions around athleticism. I’ll talk about triathlete, uh, climbing. We’re going to talk a little bit more about that. But you’re also doing some work with other organizations now, like you and I had a conversation about coaching some organizations on how to be more successful.

[00:15:06] Vince: Tell us a little bit more about that and what’s the profile, the person you’re working with and what are the outcomes that they’re looking to achieve? 

[00:15:14] Steven: Sure.  So I’ve benefited tremendously from advisors, especially towards the tail end of my company’s career. Um, earlier on, like most entrepreneurs, I was very cocky.

[00:15:23] Steven: I thought I knew it all and I didn’t want any help, which was the totally wrong approach. So when I, when I wised up and brought on, um, advisors, guess what? The company started growing, decided becoming much more profitable and we were like perfectly marching towards an exit strategy. Nice. So now that I’ve had that, had that exit, I’m basically giving back to the entrepreneurial community and doing for others exactly what advisors did for me.

[00:15:49] Steven: I love that. So we’re, I’m, I’m about. 48 hours away from signing from a deal being signed for the first business partner. Um, that’s, you know, signed up with me now that I’ve done it, I can help others. 

[00:16:01] Vince: So they’re getting to their exit. They’re out there… 

[00:16:02] Steven: Where we’re in the tail end of due diligence right now, and they should be exiting in about 48 hours.

[00:16:07] Vince: Is there anything specifically you can share with our viewers and listeners about that? Like, is there, is there, cause I have this, I told you about my set of operating principles, but is, You talked about having a vision and grit and determination, those types of things. Is there anything, is there like a formula that you share?

[00:16:22] Steven: Sure. Um, so I answered, I’ll answer your previous question and this one, as far as like a typical profile, you know, this customer of mine, you know, fit my ideal profile, which is a company doing at least 10 million in ARR. That’s profitable, um, but has, uh, is experiencing some roadblocks, right? Maybe a little bit of stagnation, a little bit of slowdown in sales growth, maybe a reduction in profitability.

[00:16:45] Steven: And the owner has been at it for a while, you know, 5 to 10, maybe sometimes 15 years. In this case, it was 20 years, the owner. And they’re just, you know, ready for that exit, but they can’t see that light at the end of the tunnel. Right. So the formula is really to help, um, Take things out of the way so that light can become visible and by take things out of the way, there’s so many, um, but that’s, that’s what advisors help me do and that’s what I’m able to help others with right now.

 [00:17:13] Vince: Like read the label of the jelly jar that you can’t read when you’re inside the jelly jar. And, uh, you know, just, just, you’re, you’re working, so you’re, cause I feel this myself so many times you’re, you’re working in the business that you can’t work on the business. 

[00:17:27] Steven: A hundred percent. I mean, that’s such an overused statement, but it’s so true.

[00:17:30] Steven: And a lot of CEOs don’t realize what the difference is. And once they actually see that difference, it’s, um, like this, it’s like this aha moment. Oh my God. So this is what it means to work on the business instead of being in there 24/7. 

[00:17:43] Vince: So invaluable. I love that. So let’s go back to the book for a second, because I love the title.

[00:17:49] Vince: Uh, you know, there’s a famous book “Built to Last” that, you know, similar in terms of the name of the title. So can you elaborate on what it truly means to be “Built to Finish”? 

[00:17:59] Steven: I mean, you just have to be, you know, super passionate about that finish line, you know, whatever that is. There’s so many different, you know, finishes.

[00:18:06] Steven: There’s, you know, degrees in education. There’s, you know, maybe marriage in a relationship. Um, obviously the exit, the sale of a business or crossing an actual finish line or getting to the top of a mountain. So you just, you need to be super passionate about that finish. You need to know your why. Like, why, why is this important to me personally? And once, and I love Simon Sinek.

[00:18:29] Vince: Yeah, I was just thinking of Simon Sinek. I love it. 

[00:18:31] Steven: What’s your why? You need to know. It’s so, it’s so true though. Once you know your why, the how becomes a lot easier. And there’s just, there’s so many people out there that can help with the how, but you need to figure out, you know, what the why first, and then you’ll get there. 

[00:18:47] Vince: Yeah. Um, we talk about mindset. That we talk about. Uh, vision, having a vision, but having your, um, we refer to a term personal philosophy. And a lot of times people have a statement that’s basically, is there a why, right? Right. What, what is, what is it, what is your ultimate outcome for your life for, for your purpose, you know, and it’s a little bit different than a mission statement.

[00:19:11] Vince: So, uh, in the book, you emphasize the importance of resilience and adaptability. Which, um, which are also tied into this principle seven I talked about, which is agility. Uh, from a business perspective, what traits can organizations cultivate to help them along that journey? 

[00:19:28] Steven: Um, if I had to pick one, especially in today’s day and age, I would say creativity. Right? Because there’s so many companies, individuals that are following, you know, specific playbooks. And there’s nothing wrong with playbook. I mean, I think a playbook is fantastic because, um, sometimes previous results do are responsible for future success, but in other cases it is not. So I think creativity is key, especially from a go to market perspective, because there’s so many, there’s so many companies and brands that just, you know, copy each other.

[00:20:00] Vince: Yeah. 

[00:20:00] Steven: With AI specifically right now, I think it’s really going to help the creative. If you’re, if you’re already creative, you can 10x your creativity with the help, help of ChatGPT and other products. Um, so if you add in, sprinkle in a little bit of creativity into your product design, into your go to market strategies, like even into your culture, it’s going to help tremendously.

[00:20:23] Vince: So talk to me about that from the binary tree perspective. Was there anything specifically that you can point to from that? 

[00:20:29] Steven: Um, yeah, we, um, we were super creative, I think. Like, one of our competitors said it best. We created a problem where a problem didn’t exist. I love that. So, the problem was email migration, right?

[00:20:41] Steven: Yeah. So, email migration was supposed to stink. If you’re converting data, especially, and people don’t understand how complicated a calendar entry is. There’s a lot of complexities behind a recurring calendar entry. Yes. So, the market understood that if you’re going from apples to oranges, IBM to Microsoft, or vice versa.

[00:20:59] Steven: Mm. You’re going to drop a couple of things here and there and just expect the worst and just deal with it. Um, we, we went out of our way to show the market that it can be perfect. You can have 100 percent data fidelity during the migration and during this integration period where half of your company is on one platform.

[00:21:18] Steven: And the other half is on the other while we migrate everybody over. So we became super creative in saying, if you’re dealing with these problems, that’s a problem. It doesn’t, migrations don’t need to stink. They can be completely flawless and, and seamless to your end user community. And that, um, served us really well.

[00:21:36] Steven: And how’d you brand that or how’d you market that? Um, so we went, we did a lot of trade shows and we did a lot of road shows and when it was our turn to get up on stage, um, we were not embarrassed because Microsoft also does a great job of putting forward on multiple partner solutions to the marketplace.

[00:21:53] Steven: They’re, they’re rarely exclusive and when it was our turn to get up on stage and even though our, our, our friends from our competitors were in the audience. We just, you know, beat them up left, right, and center saying that we are the best game in town from a data fidelity perspective. And when it was their turn, they really couldn’t combat that because they knew they weren’t.

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[00:23:08] Vince: So we’re living in interesting times. Um, I refer to them ever since COVID actually, uh, this is a time like no other, this tectonic shifts we’ve been seeing, right? This I’ll call the economic headwinds, uh, geopolitical climate that we live in, uh, changing and buying behaviors. Uh, the dominance of the hyperscalers, I mean, even more so than the days when when you were leading your business, like Microsoft, Google, and Amazon really are dominating even more.

[00:23:34] Vince: So now, cause the, The investments and commitments, especially around AI that are required. And also this co selling has become even more important than it was when you were running your company. Um, characteristics, do you believe organizations need to think about to lead and succeed during these times?

[00:23:53] Steven: So again, your creativity comes to mind in this case, and in this specific instance, just, you know, figuring out where the gaps are, even with these behemoths out there, they’re still, they’re leaving a lot of gaps in their solutions and in their technology for business partners around the world to fill.

[00:24:10] Steven: Like, in my case, back in the day, Microsoft could have easily came up with a migration product, or IBM could have, but it just wasn’t a priority for them. They were out there getting market share, and they left that opportunity out for business partners, and several of us did really well because of that gap.

[00:24:25] Steven: So, I think just looking out for where the gaps are, because they will continuously be there, and filling them is a good strategy to undertake.

[00:24:34] Vince: So, is that your best advice for the organizations listening today on how they can achieve their greatest results? 

[00:24:41] Steven: Um, so again, so if you’re looking for a new product, I think identifying a gap and filling that gap is fantastic.

[00:24:47] Steven: Um, if you already have a product in market, then you’re putting the foot on the gas and using, you know, all the popular modern, you know, go to market strategies around, you know, social media and people laugh at me when I tell them, how come you’re not on tiktok? They’re like, well, I hate tiktok. I don’t use tiktok, but I’m like, but doesn’t mean your customers aren’t on tiktok.

[00:25:05] Steven: That’s right. I mean, I stopped watching television. If I, if I have half an hour to kill. Like waiting for a plane to take off. I’m, it’s, it’s entertaining as hell. 

[00:25:13] Vince: It is entertaining. 

[00:25:14] Steven: So there’s a lot of executives out there that are probably doing the same. 

[00:25:16] Vince: So there’s no excuse for somebody not to be on TikTok.

[00:25:19] Vince: We’re getting a lot of views on TikTok these days. So you’re going to see some of this on, on there as well. So talk about your next adventure, right? We talked about certainly the, the coaching work that you’ve been doing with organizations. But I know you’ve got something really big planned in about another year. Is it next year?

[00:25:37] Steven: May. Yeah. May of next year. There’s only one month of the year to do the, to do what I’m about to tell you. 

[00:25:42] Vince:  Yeah. So let’s talk about that a little bit more. 

[00:25:43] Steven: Um, Mount Everest. So I’ve climbed some of the other seven summits. Um, actually, thanks to Microsoft, I fell in love with mountaineering because I spent a weekend out there and I went to explore Mount Rainier.

[00:25:54] Steven: And then a month later, I summited Mount Rainier. Yeah. Fell in love with the entire concept of mountaineering. And I went to, um, Alaska a couple of times, Kilimanjaro, Akinkanwa in South America, which is second highest to Everest, and, um, finally found a partner, um, because I want to come back alive.

[00:26:12] Steven: And I want to, I want to increase my chances of summiting, did a lot of due diligence and found a partner, Alpenglow Expeditions, that I’m going with in May of next year. 

[00:26:23] Vince: Wow. So what’s the preparation look like for that journey? Yeah. 

[00:26:27] Steven: So fortunately, I mean, a lot of the endurance, um, training that I do currently, a lot of swimming, biking, running, um, is definitely going to help tremendously, but I need to add a whole bunch of strength and conditioning, um, training to that.

[00:26:39] Steven: Um, so the, the, the amount of squats that I’m doing and step ups is through the roof to get me ready for that. And, um, I plan on spending some time in Colorado. I’m doing a lot of the 14ers. Okay. Yes. Get used to, um, altitude again. And, um, yeah, so I think a combination of all of that is going to prepare me for the rest of it.

[00:26:58] Vince: Yeah, we have, in fact, we’ve had other guests here. We’ve had other, uh, Everest guests. Uh, have I made some introductions?  

[00:27:03] Steven: Yes, I spoke with both of them. Fascinating individuals. 

[00:27:05] Vince: Louise McElroy and, uh And, uh, yeah, and Erwin Visser. But, uh, also, Louise leads some of these 14ers. So, um, there’s a whole group of women, uh, “She Summits” is the name of the group, actually. Some friends of ours.

[00:27:20] Steven: Actually I plan on reaching out to her again, because I, I need some of the, because there’s a lot of 14ers. There’s a lot of 14ers. I need to come up with a strategy for which ones I should hit and when, prior to the, prior to departing. 

[00:27:31] Vince: And I think she’s done most of them, I think, if not all of them, uh, most of them, if not all of them. So, uh, certainly that’s going to be a great conversation there. Maybe we should have you both on the podcast together next time. With Irwin. That’d be great. And Irwin’s been here in the studio. He, uh, he helped lead our event here in the studio back in May. So it’s really kind of cool. So this question is a favorite of mine.

[00:27:52] Vince: Uh, and I like to ask every guest because the answers are fascinating. So Stephen, you’re hosting a dinner party. And you can host this dinner party anywhere in the world. We were talking about some really great restaurants and locations prior to filming today. Um, you can invite any three guests from the present or the past to this amazing dinner party. Some people have even mentioned people in the future that they’d want to invite to this amazing dinner party. Whom would you invite and why? 

[00:28:23] Steven: Okay, top of the list is easy. My grandfather. I mean, my grand… talk about, you know, perseverance, the grind. Pivot, setback, stamina, execution. And when we, when my wife and I, after our second daughter was born, we moved half a mile away, the stress that we went through was unbelievable.

[00:28:43] Steven: And he, he uprooted an entire family. We were, we lived in Italy for six months waiting for a visa to get into the U S. So we were literally stateless, right? We, we had to, we had to give up our, our Soviet visa. citizenship. We had no status in Italy, in Rome, and waiting for approval to get into the U. S.

[00:29:00] Steven: That’s fascinating. Unfortunately, um, as, as I got older and I got married, you know, I had kids, my career started taking off. I was spending less and less and less time with him. So as I got older and smarter, this is when I should have been talking to him to get more information and stories out of him. So my grandfather’s at the top of the list.

[00:29:19] Vince: Was he the reason why you came? 

[00:29:21] Steven: Yes. 

[00:29:22] Vince: Okay, so he was, he led the family out. 

[00:29:25] Steven: He, he led the family out. He convinced my grandmother. He convinced my mother and father, who were recently married. And it just had me, I was, I was two at the time. And he’s like, oh, we’re, we’re leaving.

[00:29:35] Steven: And this was at the really, really, um, beginning of this huge, you know, immigration wave. that happened from the Soviet Union to the U. S. in 72. 

[00:29:45] Vince: 72. And then you settled initially in Coney Island, if I remember correctly., 

[00:29:48] Steven: Yeah it was so, we, it’s, we, there was this organization that was helping immigrant families.

[00:29:52] Steven: They got us an apartment in Coney Island, and then from Coney Island, we went to Brighton Beach, and my mother still lives in Brighton Beach. I’m going to see her tomorrow. 

[00:29:58] Vince: That’s fantastic. Hi, mom. So, okay, so who else is coming to this party besides your grandfather? 

[00:30:05] Steven: Uh, I think Richard Branson. Okay. I love Richard Branson.I mean, he is such an adventurous entrepreneur. Yeah. I mean, his story is fascinating. I mean, I love him from a business perspective. I love him from an adventure perspective. He’s not as crazy as Jesse Itzler, my other, um, entrepreneur, adventure entrepreneur that I love, but there’s just something about him, which is just fascinating. I would love to pick his brain.

[00:30:29] Vince: I’ve got to see him speak before and uh, It was at one of the Microsoft conferences. You might have been there. Yeah, he spoke at one of our conferences. 

[00:30:38] Steven: I remember actually seeing him on stage. Yep. He’s, he’s just a fascinating individual. 

[00:30:42] Vince: What an entrepreneur.

[00:30:43] Vince: What a creative entrepreneur. Let’s talk about that.. 

[00:30:45] Steven: Super I was just telling my daughter on the way here, um, how he started Virgin Airlines. It’s a fantastic story and how he started a whole bunch of other things. 

[00:30:52] Vince: Tell us that story. 

[00:30:54] Steven: So, he was actually, he was on a, um, waiting to board a plane to go to, I think, some Caribbean island and the airline, the announcement came on and they said, we don’t have enough passengers, so please come back tomorrow for this flight.

[00:31:07] Steven: He was furious. He, he ran around the airport and then he, he chartered a plane. He was asking people for like a 737 or whatever was popular at the time. And he finally found one, chartered it, went back to the gate and said, Hey, who, who wants to go today instead of coming back tomorrow? Everybody raised their hand, he collected some fee from them, and he goes, I have, there’s a better way to serve the traveling public, and I’m going to create that airline to serve us in a better way than we’ve been treated.

[00:31:36] Vince: That is fascinating. Yeah. All right, who’s number three? 

[00:31:40] Steven: Any Navy SEAL. I’m in awe of the military. Um, I, I wear a dog tag with no name on it just to, I, I never served, but, um, if I had a chance again, I would, I remember signing up because back when I was going to college, the selective, um, service was on, I see you needed to register for the draft before being accepted to college.

[00:32:01] Steven: So I remember like it was yesterday running to the post office so I can register and, but I was never selected anyway. I’m just in awe of the military. And, you know, SEALs and Rangers, you know, they’re the creme de la creme of, you know, military personnel and they’re just, thank you for your service.If you have any, if anybody in the military was, thank you, but SEALs and, you know, Rangers, they’re just, just incredible in my mind. 

[00:32:27] Vince: It’s funny you mentioned that, cause I was thinking about this actually just today, because I grew up at the end of the Vietnam era, a little bit older than you, a few years older than you, I think.

[00:32:36] Vince: And, um. It wasn’t popular, right? The military wasn’t popular, but I, when I dove into the public sector arena, I got to visit and work with a lot of general, former generals and current generals and military leaders and get to go to air force bases and air army bases. And there’s a level of leadership and leadership training that happens in the military.

[00:32:57] Vince: It doesn’t happen anywhere else. It doesn’t, it doesn’t happen in our colleges and university system. Which is a pity, actually. Uh, but, and I’ve met so many great leaders through that. Yep. Yep. So that’s really terrific. And where were you hosting the dinner? 

[00:33:09] Steven: Where am I hosting the dinner? Oh, man, where am I hosting the dinner? I just came back from Sardinia, so I had, I would have to say Sardinia, because we’ve been thinking about going to Sardinia for the last 20 years. I dunno why it’s taking this long, but I can’t recommend it highly enough. It’s just a magical, magical place. The beaches, Italy, almost as blue as this.

[00:33:30] Vince: so I’m, I’m going to Italy. Um, so when, uh, when this airs, I’ll probably be back from then, but we’re going to Italy as we talked about a little bit in about another week or so, and we are doing the coastline. We’re doing Positano. We’re doing Puglia. And, uh, I was looking at Sardinia. I was, I was looking at some. Pictures of the beaches there. Absolutely gorgeous

[00:33:50] Steven: It’s, it’s, it’s breathtaking and it, it’s so worth the schlep to get there. Okay. ’cause it’s not exactly the easiest place to get to. No. But it’s very, very worth it.

[00:33:54] Vince: All right. So, uh, if you don’t mind, I might come to this dinner party. Maybe I’ll bring dessert or was it gelato or tiramisu or something? We’ll find something. Uh, I don’t, I don’t know what the Sardinians have, but I’m sure they have something unique to their culture. 

[00:34:06] Steven: They have plenty of gelato. I, we, we had our fair share. 

[00:34:09] Vince: So, uh, we have a lot of young entrepreneurs, current entrepreneurs, uh, listeners and viewers that follow us. What would be your best advice for them, for those that are starting out on their journey or along their journey to build an organization that’s built to finish? 

[00:34:32] Steven: Surround yourself with folks, whether it be executive team members or advisors that have been there and done that. At the level at at a greater level than you’re at today, right?

[00:34:44] Steven: So if you’re running, let’s say a 5 million company and you want to hire a new head of sales or your CFO don’t hire somebody that’s only worked for a 5 million company, bring in somebody that’s coming from a 10 or 15 million company because he or she is going to really help, you know, move the needle a lot quicker than somebody who hasn’t worked at that level.

[00:35:03] Steven: Yeah. So, um, don’t be as silly as I was for the first. Two thirds of my career and not bring in the necessary executives and advisors. 

[00:35:14] Vince: Yeah, that’s really great advice. Steven. So good to have you here today. So excited. Yeah. I’m so excited that you came down, spent some time with our team. Our amazing viewers and listeners, uh, so great to see you again.

[00:35:27] Vince: It’s been a while since we’ve seen each other. And, uh, if you haven’t gotten this book yet, I highly recommend it. Uh, there were so similar, so many similarities for me reading the book. Uh, not, not as much on the triathlon side, cause my knees gave out a long time ago, but on the professional journey, the personal journey, and certainly the journey, uh, the, the immigrant journey, I guess is what I would say.

[00:35:48] Vince: And just that. That, that story resonates so, so much with me. Thank you again for joining us. 

[00:35:52] Steven: No, I really, really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me. 

[00:35:55] Vince: Thank you, Steven. And thank you to our listeners and viewers. If you haven’t done so already, you can follow us along on Spotify, Apple, and our new YouTube channel.

[00:36:06] Vince: Please subscribe on your favorite channel and tell your friends about The Ultimate Guide to Partnering. And TikTok. And thank you for listening and joining The Ultimate Guide to Partnering. 

[00:36:16] AD: Thanks for listening to this episode of Ultimate Guide to Partnering. Hopefully this episode and all the episodes we’ve recorded are helping you better align your partner strategy to achieve your greatest results.

So I want to ask you something. Have you implemented everything you’ve been learning? And are you now achieving the growth and revenue objectives that you hope to achieve? If not, it’s time to take action now. Join Ultimate Partner Experience. We’re building the community I’ve always dreamed about. With UPX, you get access to exclusive industry insights, unparalleled networking opportunities, tons of educational resources, and support from a community that shares your goals. Join us now. Visit our website, theultimatepartner.com, and sign up today.

Miri Rodriguez Joins Ultimate Guide to Partnering®

I was thrilled to welcome Miri Rodriguez to Ultimate Guide to Partnering for our first in person interview at our Boca Studio. Miri is a multifaceted professional with an impressive track record, recognized as an award-winning writer and an extraordinary public speaker. In her role as the Chief Storyteller at Microsoft, Miri has harnessed the power of narrative to create deep, personal connections between brands and their audiences. Her ability to blend creativity with strategy has made her a sought-after voice in the industry, inspiring countless individuals and organizations to rethink how they communicate and engage.

As an expert in brand storytelling and the award-winning author of Brand Storytelling, Miri has redefined how companies approach marketing, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and emotional resonance. Her work demonstrates that storytelling is not just a tool but a transformative experience that can elevate a brand’s presence and impact. Through her insights and expertise, Miri Rodriguez continues to shape the future of marketing, empowering brands to build meaningful, lasting relationships with their audiences.

What You’ll Learn From This Episode:

1. Introduction and Branding as a Feeling (00:00:00 – 00:08:00)

• Key Highlight: Miri emphasizes that the brand is essentially how you make your customers feel, marking the importance of emotional connection.
• Timestamp: [00:00:00] Miri’s intro on what a brand represents, and [00:07:28] brand as a feeling.

2. Miri’s Journey and Microsoft’s Storytelling Evolution (00:08:00 – 00:14:00)

• Key Highlight: Miri shares her career path and how Satya Nadella’s leadership at Microsoft transformed the company into an open and authentic brand.
• Timestamp: [00:08:16] Miri’s 12-year journey at Microsoft and evolving roles, [00:13:00] storytelling’s rise within the company.

3. The Power of Brand Storytelling & Why It Matters (00:14:00 – 00:18:30)

• Key Highlight: Vince and Miri discuss how brand story helps build partner relationships and customer loyalty and why it’s fundamental to every business strategy.
• Timestamp: [00:15:00] Telling the brand story correctly, [00:17:10] storytelling as a critical aspect for partners.

4. Infusing Brand and Story Across Business Verticals (00:18:30 – 00:22:00)

• Key Highlight: The importance of integrating brand storytelling across all business areas, including sales, finance, operations, and customer service.
• Timestamp: [00:19:00] Story as a product, [00:21:10] aligning all business units to a cohesive story.

5. The Role of Empathy in Brand Storytelling (00:28:30 – 00:35:00)

• Key Highlight: Discussing Satya’s focus on empathy as a skill set and how it transformed Microsoft’s approach to storytelling and leadership.
• Timestamp: [00:29:00] Satya’s leadership and vulnerability, [00:34:00] how leaders should integrate empathy into their brand and story.

6. The Future of Storytelling with AI (00:40:00 – 00:45:00)

• Key Highlight: Miri introduces her new AI project—a women-focused large language model—and discusses how AI can enhance storytelling.
• Timestamp: [00:41:00] Leveraging AI to scale personal mentorship and storytelling.

7. Practical Storytelling Strategies for Executives (00:48:00 – 00:54:00)

• Key Highlight: Advice for leaders on leveraging storytelling to connect with their audiences and align their teams.
• Timestamp: [00:50:00] Miri discusses the intersection of legacy and empathy in leadership storytelling.

https://youtu.be/h6xjJopQh6g?si=CLdpurtHQlTwWiVz

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Miri: The brand is everything. The brand is how you make your customers feel. Essentially, that’s what it is. So when you think about what is my brand, it’s a feeling.

[00:00:11] INTRO: Microsoft’s purpose is in service of your purpose. And again, 2024 is the year that partners come out as the leading edge of the spear on finding this buyer intent. You show up to every meeting and demonstrate why you are relevant. 

[00:00:26] INTRO: Every day I have to force myself to make sure that I’m taking one step ahead in terms of my own learning.

[00:00:31] Vince INTRO: That flywheel of success is where you will build momentum and that momentum will continue. And then you feed into the other systems to say, this is what we did. This is how we did it together. 

[00:00:40] Vince: Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering. I’m Vince Menzione and my mission is to empower every individual, leader, and organization to achieve their greatest results through successful partnering, building a successful brand and story.

[00:00:55] Vince: Have become key skills for organizations to reach the pinnacle of success. A few years ago I searched out an author who’s an expert in this area. And I had her on the podcast. Miri Rodriguez is many things. An award winning writer, an incredible public speaker, and a chief storyteller at Microsoft. And I’m delighted to bring her back today for an incredible and wide ranging conversation to better equip you and your organization to achieve more.

[00:01:24] Vince: Miri, welcome to the podcast. 

[00:01:28] Miri Thank you. I’m back. I am so excited. Finally in person, right? 

[00:01:32] Vince: We’re finally getting to do this. We’re gonna, we’re on, we’re on in front of our audience. 

[00:01:36] Miri: We’ve never met in person before. We’ve never met in person after all these years. We’ve been together and connected for a long time, but never in person.

[00:01:41] Miri: So here we are. 

[00:01:41] Vince: Unbelievable. Great to have you back on Ultimate Guide to Partnering. You know, I was going back through the archives. You were a guest in January of 2021, which was pretty incredible from a time perspective. 

[00:01:54] Miri: Intense. That was intense times. I remember when you asked me to join, I was like, We’re in the middle of COVID you’re still doing podcasts and it’s incredible.

[00:02:00] Miri: I mean, it’s just, I’m glad you did that though. But it’s, it’s been so good for you. 

[00:02:04] Vince: It has been amazing. You know, we got, we got a lot of new listeners and we came back during COVID. And, uh, but not like this, not in the studio, not doing, and it’s so great to have you in person. 

[00:02:15] Miri: Nice area, nice place. 

[00:02:16] Vince: Yeah, well, how do you like our beach, right? 

[00:02:18] Miri: know, I was just saying, in Florida, we love our beaches. I travel a whole lot and I can never, like, this is just, this is our beaches, everybody. We love this place. 

[00:02:28] Vince: So, uh, we did our intro, but, uh, but for our viewers and our listeners that don’t know Miri, I thought maybe you take us on a little bit of your personal, professional journey.

[00:02:39] Miri: Yeah, absolutely. So I’ll start with Microsoft. You know, that little company, everybody talks about 

[00:02:44] Vince:  the guys in Seattle. We all, we both know. 

[00:02:46] Miri: Yeah. I’ve been there for 12 years now. I just actually, August 6th was my 12th year anniversary. I can’t believe it. The anniversary. Thank you. I, it was one of those things that I said, I’ll be here 4 years and then go. And yeah. Still here. Um, and I’ve been doing so much. I’ve had the opportunity to do so much at Microsoft and I think one of the things that I love about the company is that is that it’s so versatile and so global and there’s so many things happening all the time. So I haven’t gotten bored. Uh, prior to that, I was doing tech in different companies, um, here actually in South Florida, Motorola and Brightstar.

[00:03:16] Miri: Um, and you know, I just started my career basically in sales support and that led into marketing and that led into comms. I am a comms major, so that was like the initial, I went back to like my heart. And then, you know, the storytelling thing came up. You don’t go to school. When I was, you know, back in school, you don’t go to school for storytelling.

[00:03:34] Miri: But now it is a thing. So I think we’re going to talk a little bit about that. So I am now a storyteller. I’ve been a storyteller at Microsoft for six of those 12 years. 

[00:03:42] Vince: That’s fantastic. 

[00:03:42] Miri: Yeah. And I was doing I started that an engineering in the engineering organization. And then I’ve gone through different orgs.

[00:03:49] Miri: And now I am in the health and public sector, um, industries. And I love it. I am so excited. There’s a lot of stories we’re telling there. They’re exciting. 

[00:03:58] Vince: Well place that’s near dear to my heart as well as many people know I started off at Microsoft in the public sector business Yes, and we’re just comparing notes, right?

[00:04:08] Miri: We like know everybody like we probably worked together didn’t even know it 

[00:04:11] Vince: I’m like, yeah federal state and local education Healthcare. 

[00:04:14] Miri: Yes, and and it’s 

[00:04:15] Vince: really like it’s it’s the most impactful segments of Microsoft, right? It’s yeah the the impact The we think about health care You The ability to do good in the world.

[00:04:27] Vince: Education is so important. Fundamental. Federal government people don’t recognize like the role of supporting Our troops, all the work that goes on there and state and local government, right? What would we do without it?  

[00:04:41] Miri: You know, the, the police department, the fire department, the stories we hear, I just, you know, it gives me chills every time.

[00:04:49] Miri: I’m like, wow, we are enabling this kind of thing for our citizens, for you and I. Yes. And I just, I just love it. I love it. It just I’m so I’m I don’t think I’ll ever leave there. And it’s 

[00:04:58] Vince: not for profit, right? We could talk about this for hours about it’s all about. It’s all about the better good. It’s about doing good.

[00:05:04] Vince: And 

[00:05:05] Miri: I love the people there because they do care. Yes. When you talk to our officials and actually within our own organization, a lot of them have come from, you know, state local and they just have the servant heart and it’s so genuine. And so I love I love our team and I love who we work with. I love our customers.

[00:05:23] Miri: I’m having a lot of fun. 

[00:05:24] Vince: Servant heart. You’re absolutely right with that. Yeah. And they spend their entire career in that segment. 

[00:05:30] Miri: And they, and they truly, it is very authentic. Like, I’ve seen it and I love it. 

[00:05:34] Vince: So, brand story, right? I, I, I brand you brand story and it’s so fundamental for those of you who have been aware of my principles of successful partnering.

[00:05:46] Vince: We talk about all the principles from growth mindset to executive commitment. And then when we get into like how to be a successful partner working with Microsoft, the 500, 000 organizations out there that partner with Microsoft and some of the other guys as well, brand and story are so important, so fundamental to success.

[00:06:06] Vince: And most organizations just don’t do it well, right? And there’s this myopic thinking about like how to partner with Microsoft. And I thought maybe we’d go there today and talk a little bit about what you do. Yeah. But also layer in this conversation because I believe it’s so fundamental to successful partnering.

[00:06:24] Vince: So I thought maybe I’d get your point of view. Sure. On the topic. 

[00:06:28] Miri: And I have to say thank you because the work that you do for the partners, it’s, it’s so valuable. So important. It’s beyond valuable. It’s, I think it’s critical, uh, this kind of conversation that this table conversation and other ones that you have in it that you touch on is things that partners, when you’re, you know, when you’re on that side, you’re just worried about so many things that it may not be that they don’t want to think about branding or stories or, you know, programs, but they just, it’s not, it’s not top of mind.

[00:06:56] Miri: And so you come and you deliver this kind of podcast and, and, and the conversations we’re having. And then you’re like, they’re, they’re thinking, Oh, that’s right. Right. I thought about it, but I didn’t activate it. Now it’s a time to activate. So thank you for that. I’ll start with that. And you’re right.

[00:07:09] Miri: It’s um, it’s a topic where a lot of people will say, well, that belongs in marketing for for storytelling or branding. Uh, and it isn’t. I mean, in my, in my work, the brand is everything. The brand is how you make your customers feel. Essentially, that’s what it is. So when you think about what is my brand, it’s a feeling.

[00:07:28] Miri: It’s a feeling and if you can’t answer that feeling in one word, you probably haven’t branded yourself. Well, you know, uh, and that’s that’s something that it’s a science and as well as an art. So you have to be able to say, you know, what is the brand that I serve like Microsoft. Obviously we’ve. We, when Satya came on board, you know, that we branded ourselves differently.

[00:07:47] Miri: Uh, we started going out with the mission statement of to empower every person in organization on the planet to achieve more. 

[00:07:53] Vince: Yes. 

[00:07:54] Miri: And that word empowerment is not only our history because we empowered people in the back, in the, you know, in this, in our story of our brand, but it’s also our charge and our feeling, you know, what it feels like or not to be empowered.

[00:08:06] Miri: So that’s very key in that word. So ask yourself. Um, you know, what is that word? What is that feeling that I give in that? It’s your brand. And then the story of that is. Why you’re here. You know, why? Why am I still here? The brand story really serves two purposes. One. It is the story of the actual brand. It is an entity.

[00:08:25] Miri: It was born. It has friends. It has foes. It’s growing. Hopefully growing. You’re scaling, right? And that story never ends until the brand ends. Hopefully it won’t. But you know, you continue to tell a story. Nobody will ever get bored of story. Nobody, nobody will ever, because we, we thrive in story. We connect through stories.

[00:08:41] Miri: So you will always have an opportunity to talk about the brand and the brand story. And then work marketing, marketing and communications actually comes in is to enable the other stories that infuse your brand. These are the stories of your CEOs and your C suite and your frontline workers and the backend workers.

[00:08:57] Miri: I mean, you can just be here for hours talking about what infuses your brand to deliver that to your customer. 

[00:09:03] Vince: So how do you infuse brand and story? In the markets that you serve. Tell us more about what that looks like. 

[00:09:10] Miri: Yeah, I mean, so right now, like I mentioned, I’m in health and public sector industries.

[00:09:14] Miri: And I have to say the stories are really easy to infuse because there’s so many great stories that already are being told. And the beautiful thing about brand and story is that If you do it well, if you do it well, that your own customers, your own partners, your own audience is going to talk about your brand.

[00:09:32] Miri: I always think about brand story in the how as, as, as a product, you think of your story as a product, uh, you’re designing a story with purpose. And you know, the designer really like think about the chair you’re sitting in or the stool. I think it’s a chair, chair, stool, um, and you know, somebody designed it.

[00:09:49] Miri: Somebody designed it and they thought I’m going to make this tool and one day you’re going to use it as the user of this product, you can decide what to do with it. You could sit on it. You could stand on it. Please don’t fall. Don’t do that. You could sleep on it. Maybe really uncomfortable too, but there’s something you can decide the use.

[00:10:06] Vince: Yes, 

[00:10:06] Miri: of your product that you that’s there. But somebody designed it with a purpose. And if they did a really good job, you’re probably going to use it for its purpose. So the same thing with story. If you take time to design your brand story in a way that is malleable and that that the user can take a look and go, Wow.

[00:10:22] Miri: The story makes sense. I’m going to reshare. I’m going to make it mine and they own it. Then you’ve done a really great job at branding. 

[00:10:28] Vince: I love that. I love that. I started thinking about, you know, as you talk about Microsoft’s purpose and mission. Uh, our purpose and mission is in service of that same base, right?

[00:10:38] Vince: So we talk about. We empower every individual organization and partner to achieve their greatest results through successful partnering.

[00:10:45] Miri: I love that. 

[00:10:47] Vince: We’ve dovetailed right into it because it’s such a powerful mission. 

[00:10:50] Miri: It is. And everyone wants to feel empowered. And here’s the kicker of that. Empowerment, that word, means something.

[00:10:58] Miri: Some different things to different people. Yes, and so that when you think about your brand, what is that word? What does that feeling mean to your audience? It has to be ubiquitous enough that people can make it theirs. If it’s not, then you’re only branding your mission for your, uh, you know, for, for what you want the brand to go.

[00:11:15] Miri: And you’re not allowing that malleability that we’re talking about for the brand story.

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[00:12:04] Vince: So I find your role fascinating because you don’t see it, right? We’re, I hope that there’s many like big corporate executives that are watching and listening today. Because even if I look across even the fortune 500, I do not see your role like this storytelling role. And Microsoft really made some serious investments.

[00:12:23] Miri: Yes. 

[00:12:23] Vince: I remember when Satya first became CEO. 

[00:12:26] Miri: Yes. 

[00:12:27] Vince: And this role. Emerged, evolved, was created. 

[00:12:30] Miri: It was created. And, uh, 

[00:12:32] Vince: Steve Clayton, who I know is someone you worked with. Yes. Right. I’d like to talk more about, like, how that happened. But we had Steve come in. I was mentoring a group of individuals, early and career professionals that had a high trajectory at Microsoft.

[00:12:44] Vince: And we brought Steve in and I had never heard about this brand story or storytelling role that existed at Micro, and he was like chief storyteller, right? 

[00:12:51] Miri: He was the chief storyteller, yes. 

[00:12:52] Vince: And then you, uh, and then I met you and it was, oh, well, you, you’re working in conjunction with Steve. So tell us more about how that evolved.

[00:12:59] Miri: Yeah, it’s great. So when I came into that role, I was actually here in Florida. And I don’t know if you know the secret when you talk when you’re a Floridian like me, and they offer you a job at Microsoft. Your first thing is you’re going to negotiate not to ever go to Seattle. That’s right. And then, you know, then you end up going to Seattle.

[00:13:13] Miri: It’s a lie. You’re lying to yourself. So I ended up going to Seattle because I was offered this role, which was very fascinating, intriguing to me. It was a storyteller role within engineering. And I’m like,  

[00:13:24] Miri: What is that? Engineering, especially in engineering. And it was Satya’s. Way of thinking, you know, up until then, Microsoft had been this kind of closed source.

[00:13:34] Miri: Nobody knows what’s happening behind closed doors, who the engineers are and what’s going on and what the next thing is. And so he came in with this real. Authentic idea of like, Hey, let’s show the world. What’s happening. Let’s show the humans behind the tech. And this was at a very critical time for us because we were driving digital transformation at that time.

[00:13:53] Miri: So we’re now introducing the cloud and in that transform, you know, that that on premises to to the cloud. Um, process. What does that look like? And our engineers. This was a first time for them, right? They had not been cloud engineers before the cloud didn’t exist. So the stories were that the stories were like, Hey, we are digitally transforming, but there’s also personal transformations going on.

[00:14:16] Miri: There’s job transformations happening. And so they brought us three of us into engineering to actually tell those stories. 

[00:14:21] Vince: Fascinating. And I don’t think of engineers as storytellers at all, right? I mean, I think of them. Working on a, behind a computer screen. So tell us about that. 

[00:14:29] Miri: Oh, a hundred percent. Oh, I failed.

[00:14:31] Miri: Exactly for that reason. I was, I failed for the first three months. I was like, I don’t think I can do this. I’m like, I thought I could do the job. And I, can I get a story out of this engineer? I actually remember, uh, you know, connecting with one of them. I was, we were talking about IOT, the Internet of Things.

[00:14:44] Miri: Yes. And I, you know, you take them out to lunch. You want to warm them up. You want to say, hey, can I interview you? And this is a great story to tell. And I remember, I mean, He just looked at me and I, I thought I prepped him good. And he just gave, he’s like, hand out. He’s like, give me your hand. I was like, okay.

[00:14:57] Miri: And he just puts the IOT device in my hand. He goes, there’s your story. You know, I was like, Oh my gosh. Well, and it makes sense to them. That’s the story. 

[00:15:05] Vince: That’s the raspberry pi, right? 

[00:15:09] Miri: And so I was like, yeah, exactly. And so I was like, how do I tell a story out of this? And it, it, it became very clear to me.

[00:15:15] Miri: You know, stories matter, but we have to get very intentional about the design of stories. So, back to your question about Satya and how this came to be and, you know, and, and Steve, um, I, I was very honored to work with Steve and we created, actually, he created, uh, a council, a storytelling council, where we brought storytellers from different parts of the organization, of the organization, of the company.

[00:15:38] Miri: I mean, we’re so big. And they were special. These pop ups like me and engineering other people. And so we’re like, it became increasingly clear that we needed to have some kind of hub where a community of storytellers, where there was storytellers popping up in different, all the verticals, all the verticals, including finance.

[00:15:53] Miri: I mean, sales everywhere. So we’re like, okay, what does this look like? How do we enable, how do we train? How do we infuse? How do we, and how do we tell a cohesive story? That was important too. And so So under Steve, even though I wasn’t directly working for him in his organization, I was actually in engineering, uh, I worked a dot, I worked out in line with him.

[00:16:11] Miri: He led that charge, uh, and it was a beautiful fusion of coming together from different parts of the organization to parts of the world, uh, to have this conversation about storytelling. So we actually had a storytelling, uh, summit annual that was happening. We all got together in HQ. It was just incredible.

[00:16:27] Miri: And it really, it really cemented the importance of stories. Uh, and I mean, here we are, right, as we keep telling great stories, so. 

[00:16:36] Vince: Well, and I go back, I mean, it was a seminal point when Satya first became CEO. 

[00:16:41] Miri: Yes. 

[00:16:42] Vince: And, uh, Frank Shaw, Chief of, right, so Steve reports, does he still report to Frank? 

[00:16:48] Miri: No I, so he, I think, I think he’s now in, uh, Government Affairs or Yes, something like that.

[00:16:53] Miri: Yeah, but at that point in time. So he’s now under Brad Smith. 

[00:16:55] Vince: Under Brad. Yeah. But at that point in time It was noticeable. There was this change in tone from the company, from Satya. 

[00:17:03] Miri: Immediate. 

[00:17:03] Vince: Wanting to get out in front. Um, very communicative. Very open. Open. Very open. And I’ll never forget the first earnings call as CEO.

[00:17:13] Vince: Both he and Amy hood came on the earnings call. And if you recall back in the early days, I go back to the growth mindset, scarcity mindset, growth mindset, Satya brings growth mindset, infuses it into the business. And from day one, he gets in front, he’s on front foot with the analysts and open conversations about the company and where he’s taking the company.

[00:17:35] Vince: And, and that to me more than anything else helped propel the stock price from being flat for 10 years. To its trajectory now over 400 a share 

[00:17:44] Miri: and we call that vulnerability. 

[00:17:45] Vince: Yes 

[00:17:46] Miri: He became vulnerable. 

[00:17:47] Vince: Yeah, 

[00:17:48] Miri: and he took a chance to show up in that vulnerability and we see you know We we look at people that do that and we’re like, wow, that’s fascinating And we almost like we admire it from afar, but to activate that it’s so hard 

[00:18:00] Vince: Yes 

[00:18:00] Miri: for leaders to activate that it becomes so hard and we know that everybody’s watching and what if we say the wrong thing?

[00:18:05] Miri: And here’s where story can help because you know Story can make you not only empathetic towards your audience, they become empathetic to you. We were no longer looking at Microsoft as a big tech dinosaur giant. We were looking at Satya and going, wow, what an incredible leader who is leading this company.

[00:18:21] Miri: And we were able to zero in to his leadership. And that’s what story does. We saw his humanity. And that made him just, Who he is today really in the company 

[00:18:31] Vince: and the ability to emulate that right down in the field and even amy I mean, I think about a chief finance officer like that who’s able to tell the story When she gets on the earnings call, she’s 

[00:18:42] Miri: fabulous.

[00:18:43] Miri: She’s incredible I I always quote her, uh in you know, when we when I do workshops and turn on i’m like Please look at the head of finance I mean if if anything could be like finance of all things to talk about if anybody can Yes, if anybody can talk You Talk you up on finance and numbers and they make it make you feel good about it.

[00:19:00] Miri: You’re a great storyteller. Uh, and so my role in many other roles started to grow and pop up and people in our organization started to actually, um, invest in these roles and actually create roles. Um, and you know, it became a mix of things. So we have storytellers that are actually in marketing and sales and comms, uh, in different parts of the Oregon engineering, of course, uh, in design.

[00:19:21] Miri: So I happen to be in sales. I’m in under Judson’s org. Um, and it’s just, there’s no discrimination as to where you can be a storyteller because we’re really all storytellers. Right. 

[00:19:31] Vince: And they can emulate from you. 

[00:19:32] Miri: Absolutely. 

[00:19:33] Vince: So I have your book here. Um, look at this. This is, this is brand storytelling. This was released in March.

[00:19:40] Vince: We were talking about this earlier, during the height of COVID, well, the beginning of COVID 

[00:19:44] Miri: lockdown, 

[00:19:45] Vince: lockdown, March of 2020. 

[00:19:47] Miri: I had a 15 city world tour. 

[00:19:50] Vince: And you can tell this is dog eared because I’ve read it. I’ve read it. Um, we’re going to get real now, right? For our viewers and listeners, because I, we talk about, you know, Having a marketing plan, having built integrating brand and story into your marketing plan in the book you have an integrated marketing plan that you share.

[00:20:09] Miri: A reimagined one, 

[00:20:09] Vince: a reimagined one, but I was hoping you could share some of the principles of that with our viewers and listeners today. 

[00:20:15] Miri: Yeah. And I, it’s interesting. You call out the date. Because my book was scheduled to come out actually the summer before that. So 2019 in the  summer. And there’s an interesting, like the, the, the publisher takes a lot of pride and work into the book releases dates because they know the market.

[00:20:33] Miri: So they go ahead of you and like, Hey, have your written book by now. Turn in the manuscript and do this whole thing. It was the first time I wrote the book. So I was like, and then I pushed back. Um, there was stuff happening personally. So I was like, Hey, let me, Let me just, I’ll write it later. And so they pushed my date to March, 2020.

[00:20:49] Miri: And I was like, how about December? You know, like what’s up? Nothing’s happening. 

[00:20:53] Vince: Nothing happens in March.

[00:20:53] Miri: I’m going to make no sales. And well, here we are. Right. It was locked down and not only was it locked down the message here about putting your customer at the heart of your brand story. Just began to resonate immediately.

[00:21:07] Miri: People were calling me. I mean, I had to stop taking calls because people were like, Mary, what do I do now? What’s the story? Do I tell? We are literally like, do I sell right now? What is what is what’s happening? How do I in a lot of this is spoken here in the book. And here’s to your question. How do we integrate story into our marketing plan?

[00:21:24] Miri: Story really is integrated as part of your brand mission. Your story really has to be asking yourself. It’s really creating an end to end machine. Bringing all of the players in, and it has to start from the top. And I know you have a lot of, you know, top leaders here listening and CEOs. And I have to say it starts with you.

[00:21:42] Miri: Uh, a lot of your marketing people may be already trying, have been trying for a while and it won’t get done. It will not be infused and integrated the right way. If you don’t make this part of the strategy, it’s as simple as that. And why is it important to make it part of the strategy? Because if you don’t, you’re going to have pockets of it here and there, and it’s not going to be cohesive.

[00:22:01] Miri: And so it might look like you’re working on a story, maybe, Oh, we’re going to do a story as part of a marketing plan. A campaign, campaigns come and go. So an actual brand story, uh, strategy really is the leader saying, Okay, what stories are we going to tell and how and when? And who is going to go tell those stories?

[00:22:19] Miri: And it’s literally having those questions. And sales should be there. And marketing should be there. And operations should be there. And customer service should be there. Everybody should be on that table. Why? Because marketing is over here talking about a product that may not be available to this customer yet.

[00:22:34] Vince: Right.

[00:22:35] Miri: And then we go and we put a lot of money on that campaign. We know this. And then they go out and the customer’s like, where was my product? And it’s not GA. And so the story fails. 

[00:22:43] Vince: That’s right. 

[00:22:43] Miri: The  brand fails in telling the story. And so if you have these people brought in, in one table and say, okay, what is your, what are your priorities?

[00:22:50] Miri: What are your priorities? And then look to where the priorities, if they don’t meet, you’re not telling the stories right. You’re not. 

[00:22:56] Vince: So I want to stop you here because I, when, when we outline successful partnering, we talk about having your mission statement basically for the partnership. Like what’s the better together.

[00:23:07] Vince: Yeah. So if you’re a partner with Microsoft, what’s, what’s the one thing that makes you stand out? Yeah. And then what you’re saying is you build a unified brand story that goes across each of the Business functions of the organization, right? So you go across finance, you go across marketing, customer success, product, engineering, 

[00:23:27] Miri: design, sales, sales, 

[00:23:29] Vince: everyone has to be aligned to this brand story.

[00:23:31] Miri: That’s it. And it starts with you decide the mission, like back to you. You, you took the Microsoft mission and made it for the partners. Same thing. How does it align to, for us, right? We exist to empower every personal organization. So how am I, what does that mean to me in my sales org? Yes. What does empower mean?

[00:23:47] Miri: Empowerment mean to every person and every organization. In this case, my organizations could be public sector, and so there’s a lot that I need to advocate for there. So it’s very broad and it’s broad and broad. On purpose. On purpose, so that you can deliver it and, and, and succinctly make it part of, you know, let your, your teams make it part of their mission within their org.

[00:24:07] Miri: So it starts with the leader infusing that in, in every aspect and keeping people accountable. How shared priorities. Um, you know, I think it’s important for us to have a shared priority across all of them. If it’s not part of the priorities, and nobody’s, you know, if the bonus doesn’t depend on them, they’re not going to do it.

[00:24:21] Miri: It sounds nice, but they’re not going to do it. So if you say, hey, this, you know, part of our priorities is diversity and inclusion, all those big things, storytelling, making sure we tell the story correctly, and we still tell the story succinctly, and everybody’s telling the story, you know, cohesively, is one of our core priorities at the company.

[00:24:39] Miri: How often and how long until other people tell it. 

[00:24:42] Vince: I love it. I love it. So, you know, think about this. This is this is where an area where partnerships fail because marketing is off doing its own brand. They’re all marketing. Yes. Directly to customers. Yes. Not inclusive of the partners that they’re working with.

[00:24:56] Vince: Not telling the story together. Or the process itself. Or the process itself. 

[00:25:00] Miri: And so, and we mean well, 

[00:25:02] Miri: But it’s so siloed, and we mean well, and time and time again, it fails. A campaign may give you, and we know campaigns, they do yield results, but they’re short lived. A brand story is going to be literally the continuous.

[00:25:14] Miri: The continuous narrative of how you’re what’s happening with your company and why we think about especially now and so the social climate. Let’s talk about that. 

[00:25:23] Vince: Yes, let’s talk about social. I mean, it’s it’s actually very sad in some respects what it’s doing to our young people. 

[00:25:29] Miri: And what what is doing to our young people is those young people are actually gonna become our customers, by the way.

[00:25:34] Miri: So they’re being they’re they’re being. They’re being, uh, educated in certain ways in certain, uh, areas, and they’re being infused and overwhelmed with content and your brand no man, no matter where it is in the in the in the in field. That generation is being we’re all being impacted. And so when you think about social issues, and you think about your brand right now, those kids Gen Gen Z Gen A they are looking at your brand and asking themselves. Why do I want to be?

[00:26:01] Vince: Yes, 

[00:26:02] Miri: either part of that brand or work for that brand eventually or buy from the brand, whatever, whatever, however they come in touch with your brand. And it goes beyond the product. It goes beyond product. I mean, there’s, I could have the same exact product. And if one brand, one customer sells it at, you know, let’s say two t shirts, uh, and one is sold at 20 bucks, the other one sold at 50 bucks.

[00:26:22] Miri: But the one that’s selling at 20, uh, 50 bucks is, uh, talking about, you know, social responsibility, corporate responsibility. Those kids are buying that T-shirt. They are. And it’s, it could be the same price, it could be the same product. It doesn’t matter. So now the stories go beyond the product before, you know, back when we could just say, sell a really good product and we’re good.

[00:26:41] Miri: Um, but the reality is it’s no longer. And so we are competing against a, a really incredible scenario environment that it’s overwhelming with content, overwhelming with social issues and demands from our consumers. Yeah. That are saying, what is your brand really about? Are you really, is your supply chain really green?

[00:27:01] Miri: And they’re keeping us accountable. So it doesn’t, it doesn’t just sound nice to say we’re going to be green by 2025. Come 2025, they’re going to be like, okay, tell us how you became green. That’s a story. You’re telling stories. Are you lying to us? And so that is the accountability that our consumers expect of us.

[00:27:16] Miri: Those consumers are going to become partners. They’re going to become, you know, employers, employees. And so we have to really think about that story. 

[00:27:23] Vince: Gen Z is really big on authenticity. Yes. We’re starting to see that now. It’s permeating through everything.  

[00:27:30] Miri: They  won’t buy a product, even if it’s really good, if they feel like their, you know, the company they’re buying from doesn’t align to their values, for example.

[00:27:36] Miri: That’s happening. 

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[00:28:34] Vince: Well, you work for one of the best companies in the world. I mean, Satya has been recognized as CEO of the Year, multiple years now. Yes. I want to ask you what you see from the best and where, what do you see, where, where do you see when organizations fail on this brand and storytelling? 

[00:28:48] Miri: Empathy. 

[00:28:49] Vince: Empathy.

[00:28:50] Miri: Empathy. Um, I remember when Satya wrote his book, Hit Refresh. Yes. He actually, I don’t know if anybody knows, but he actually wrote an employee version for all of us. Where he actually has his own notes in it. 

[00:29:03] Vince: I did not know that.

[00:29:04] Miri: It’s fascinating. And 

[00:29:05] Vince: I referenced the book quite a bit. 

[00:29:07] Miri: loved it.

[00:29:07] Miri: And I ate it up. I just opened it and never closed it. I ate that book up immediately. I have to say, it changed my perspective on empathy. Um, before that, I thought empathy was a personality trait, which I did not have, you know, I was like, not an empath. Uh, my kids will remind me of that all the time and they were like, you’re cruel.

[00:29:25] Miri: And I’m like, that’s okay. It’ll be fine. You’ll be fine. Um, but, um, 

[00:29:29] Vince: Get over it. 

[00:29:31] Miri: Yeah. Get over it. It’ll be  fine. I’m like, no, don’t be a flake. And, um, and, but no, I mean, I read it and he spoke about his own stories and he, I can not forget the story he tells there where he was, you know, he, He was applying for a role internally and the, he had checked all the marks.

[00:29:47] Miri: He was good for it. He had all the skillsets and then the, the hiring manager said, okay, um, let me, you know, let me ask you this question. If you saw a baby on the floor crying, what would you do? And he’s like, I don’t know, I’ll, I’ll look for their mom. I don’t know. I don’t know what to do. He’s like, you pick it up.

[00:30:03] Miri: So he failed the interview. 

[00:30:04] Vince: Yeah, he failed. 

[00:30:05] Miri: He failed the interview because he had no empathy. And that was such a lesson to him. And then to all of us, he started this idea around empathy being a skill set. And I was like, Oh, okay, then I’m going to, I’m going to go get that skill set. I’m going to really work on this.

[00:30:19] Miri: Empathy shows up in so many ways for a brand. In so many ways for partnership, because again, it has the opportunity, it’s pregnant with opportunity of you making your audience think of you as a human, so you win, they’re more forgiving when you make a mistake, which we’re bound to, it’s okay, uh, they’re more apt to being on your corner when they get to know you a little bit more than just the brand, um, and, and then you get to empathize with them.

[00:30:43] Miri: What does that look like even today? And now we can introduce AI. It enables us to get past our biases. And our lived experiences and in our own, uh, our own ideas. And it enables us to open up a space where we can really see people and companies for who they are and what they’re trying to do. And then we can help each other.

[00:31:01] Miri: So I think it’s great. 

[00:31:02] Vince: How do you build empathy into an organization and into a brand? 

[00:31:06] Miri: Again, when you tell the stories, Immediately you become, you start to empathize, right? So, I have told stories, you’ve seen my personal stories. 

[00:31:14] Vince: Yes, I have. Yes, I have. 

[00:31:15] Miri: Um, and I’ve shared 

[00:31:16] Vince: And we’re going to talk about some of those.

[00:31:18] Miri: Yeah, yeah. And so I’ve been, I decided, actually, to start sharing those stories publicly. And it wasn’t easy. I’m talking about on social media. It wasn’t easy for me to share. And then I realized, well, if I don’t share, I could be navigating this on my own, and nobody will ever understand. But if I share, people will look at me, and they will.

[00:31:37] Miri: Not that they will have ever gone through something like this, but they can understand, you know, I, I can talk about something that makes you makes me embarrassed. You may not have the same story, but you felt embarrassment. So we meet at the embarrassment. We meet at the feeling. Yeah. And that’s so powerful because you’re like, Oh, I, I cringe because I mean, I can understand you could, I can understand embarrassment.

[00:31:55] Miri: Maybe not, maybe not the same scenario, but you should understand what I may have felt. And so that is the power of story. It’s packed with this idea that we can, we can invoke emotion from people and the emotions remind us that we are human and reminds the, remind us of the human experience and the human connection.

[00:32:11] Miri: And that’s where we need each other. It’s so powerful. 

[00:32:13] Vince: You have to be vulnerable and you were very vulnerable for those who don’t know you were a cancer survivor. 

[00:32:18] Miri: Yes. 

[00:32:19] Vince: And you were very vulnerable about that time. 

[00:32:21] Miri: Yeah. 

[00:32:22] Vince: And most people don’t feel that in, like in, in our corporate domain, like LinkedIn. Yeah.

[00:32:29] Miri: Yeah. 

[00:32:29] Vince: Like that’s not something we should do. Right. A lot of people say, well, that’s your personal life. That’s not your professional life. Tell us more about how you, how you think about that. 

[00:32:38] Miri: Yeah. I actually, I, I, and I should say, I didn’t. actually share the entire thing. So I was very, I decided first to share where I was going cause I was going to be away for a while.

[00:32:47] Miri: I had to have a lot of procedures. So I wanted to just say, Hey, I’m going to pause. And that’s when I first decided. But beyond that, I knew that this was going to be life changing for me. I knew it. And so I wanted to preface it with I, it’s going to, this is where I’m at right now and this is where you’re going to see me later.

[00:33:05] Miri: Um, and all of that I’m going to be sharing as much as I can because of the learnings that I’m going through. And this is what story does, um, at the corporate level and at the personal level. We have conventional wisdom, right? It’s like, you know, let’s be good to each other, be good to your neighbor. Okay.

[00:33:21] Miri: The conventional wisdom becomes so much more powerful when you add on your story on top of that. And now it’s your, it’s your lived experience through the conventional wisdom. Like, Hey, be good. Okay. Well, why be good? Well, because your time is, your time is marked. I mean, you’re just all the things. And so my decision to do that was important because I wanted to share that at the, at the personal level and actually became a corporate thing at the same time because of so many women came to me that were at corporate and saying, Miri, I went through or I’m going through or I just got diagnosed.

[00:33:52] Miri: And so it, it infuses the actual company. When you, because one individual, all of us, right, all of us infuse what’s the culture. So it’s, I’m part of that culture. And so you’re part of that culture. If you become more human, more vulnerable, you drive a cold. It’s a, it’s a culture changer. It really is. 

[00:34:09] Vince: Yeah.

[00:34:11] Vince: Any advice for our viewers and listeners, CEOs, executive teams on how to do what you just did. 

[00:34:19] Miri: Yeah. To me and to all of you, I think. The important thing here is to ask yourself, what is your legacy beyond the company? What is your personal legacy that you can integrate as part of the company? You’re there, you’re driving, you’re leading, uh, you have the charge, you know where you’re going.

[00:34:37] Miri: Hopefully you know where you’re taking the company and your own goals there. But there’s a person, there’s a personal question you got to ask yourself. Why am I doing this? Why do I get up every day to lead something like this? Why is this important to the world? And then to me, And if you’re able to, and if you can be vulnerable with that question, and then share it with people, I mean, they’ll eat it up.

[00:34:56] Miri: They want to know. Everybody wants to know. And that’s what Satya did, that’s what leaders that are admired do, is that they’ll integrate their own, their own life philosophies into the why. What is your why? Uh, not just because you get paid a lot of money, but what is your why? Yes. And, and that is a very personal question that infuses really the mission of your company.

[00:35:17] Miri: People want to know why you’re there, why you’re leading, why you’re waking up every morning to do this. And if you can answer that question and actually be, be open with it, uh, you might be surprised, very surprised about how people tune into you as a leader and tune into the brand as a result. 

[00:35:31] Vince: Yeah. Some of the best posts I do on LinkedIn, the most viewed or commented upon or when I’m vulnerable.

[00:35:37] Vince: I talk about a failure. I talk about maybe the fact that now my son works in my company with me or talk about that journey that we’re on and 

[00:35:46] Miri: yeah, 

[00:35:46] Vince: yeah, 

[00:35:47] Miri: we want to see humans. We want to remind ourselves that we are human, that we have this connection across times and, and, you know, ages. And it’s at the end of the day, it’s business, people doing people.

[00:35:58] Miri: It’s not just business doing business. 

[00:35:59] Vince: Absolutely. So, uh, Microsoft partners. 

[00:36:03] Miri: Yes, 

[00:36:03] Vince: we know. We know a few. We have one actually. So I was like, you have many roles. 

[00:36:08] Miri: I do. 

[00:36:09] Vince: So, uh, we had our recent conversation. You’re like, Hey, I’m now a Microsoft partner. I was like, Wow, wait, what? How does that happen? So let’s dive into this latest endeavor of yours.

[00:36:19] Miri: Yeah. So first of all, I’m going to say this is the first time I’m actually publicly talking about it. So here you got it out of me. I think I’m actually, I don’t know. I, I, I won’t say that it’s true, but I don’t, it’s check that. Check me, please. I think I’m right now the only employee and partner at Microsoft and how this happened.

[00:36:35] Vince: That’s right. How does that happen? So you have an MPN number too then. I do. Yeah, so congratulations. Thank you. I have one as well, by the way. I’m an MPN. 

[00:36:43] Miri: I’m going to go for MVP. Okay. 

[00:36:45] Vince: Awesome. 

[00:36:45] Miri: How did this happen? It happened, again, and it’s interesting. It happened because through my journey, so this was a two and a half year journey, um, I began to think about my collection of, Stories at Microsoft, and that involved a lot of my personal experiences involved women that I mentor and I have mentored or that have mentored me men that have mentored me and just like just being a woman in tech and the navigation of that.

[00:37:12] Miri: And I remember one of my mentors said. Cause I mentor women one on one and, and, and he was like, Mary, you can’t scale that. And I’m like, I know, but I love it. It’s like, you can’t scale it. You Do something that, it’s like, if you, if that back to your legacy, what is your personal legacy? You can do that. And you know, nobody will find out and it’ll be like 20 people.

[00:37:29] Miri: But if you, if you scale it, you, you’re just, it just becomes global. It becomes ubiquitous and you can’t be everywhere. I wish I could. And so me too. Yeah, exactly. You and I were talking just backstage about, you know, having conferences and I’m like, I keep saying no, I just don’t have the time. I love it. So, uh, sitting, this is incredible.

[00:37:48] Miri: Every time I had a surgery, I had five. Every time I had a surgery, my recovery time was maybe, I don’t know, six to eight weeks. I was in bed, and I was just thinking. I was just thinking. I put all my electronics away. I had my, I’m a writer, so I just journaled, journaled. And I had downloads, and ideas, and downloads.

[00:38:04] Miri: And I just, they didn’t make sense at the beginning. I was like, I’m probably drugged. I’m like, this is, this is all the anesthesia wearing off, but I just good meds and I was just writing, writing, writing. And then my last one, which was July 30th last year, so like last one, I just came actually from my doctor for a minute.

[00:38:21] Miri: Was I just just a year? Well, just now. Yeah. Wow. 

[00:38:24] Vince: Yeah. Congratulations. 

[00:38:25] Miri: Thank you. And so, um, I, It all of a sudden came together like a puzzle piece, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I got it. And it couldn’t have happened before because of the timing. So what this is, and then I pitched it to Microsoft and they say yes, it’s just crazy.

[00:38:39] Miri: This is um, a large language model, now built on Azure, yay. Um, it is think ChatGPT meets Chief. You know Chief? 

[00:38:47] Vince: Yes, of course I know Chief. 

[00:38:48] Miri: So, okay. So basically, the, the large, the GPT model, instead of you going and inquiring, you know, like, sourcing from the internet, it’s actually women coming in, asking whatever questions, and the source is other women.

[00:39:02] Miri: It’s expert women. That are going to come in and answer the question very, very personalized, very, yes. And so for the women experts and authors on that side, we actually, it’s going to be a model where they actually get royalties every time the AI uses their answers. So we’re building their empires.

[00:39:19] Miri: Fascinating. And then the users can meet me, right? They’d be like, hey, storytelling. Hey, you know, I want to scale my business with storytelling. Well, Miri, the source says, Miri says, right? And so you get me, you don’t have to read my whole book. It could be boring. I don’t know. Was it boring? 

[00:39:33] Vince: Wasn’t boring at all.

[00:39:35] Vince: Come on. I’m throwing this thing apart for granted. Some people 

[00:39:37] Miri: just don’t read the whole book. And to be honest, to be fair, some people just want like cliff notes. Hey, tell me how this applies to me. 

[00:39:43] Vince: You have to sign my book today. 

[00:39:44] Miri: Okay, I’ll do that. Excellent. Um, but so it’s going to take the, it’s going to take the entire knowledge base and it’s just going to make, personalize it for you, what you need for that purpose.

[00:39:53] Miri: moment in time. And so it’s by women, for women. I’m really proud to say, uh, now on Azure. And yeah, I, I’m a partner. 

[00:40:01] Vince: I love it. And so how are you going to make this available? I mean, obviously today we can announce it, but when is it available? 

[00:40:07] Miri: My partner’s going to be like, uh, so, okay. So we are planning to launch it for users by March, hopefully March 8th, next year.

[00:40:14] Vince: We have a little time. 

[00:40:15] Miri: But I am actually connecting, connecting with women who want to start building the AI we’re building now. Love it. Um, and these are experts. So if you consider yourself an expert, uh, in any field, in any way, we actually have niche areas, so it doesn’t have to, it’s, it’s all the verticals of a business, it is actually wellness as well.

[00:40:32] Miri: So the holistic part of all the things that we do, um, and you want, you don’t have to have a book. You can say, Hey, I have a method that I want to create. The AI will also help you. With a questionnaire and put that together. So if you don’t have it all succinctly, you’re like you’ve mentored women before you haven’t, you know, you could put it together.

[00:40:48] Miri: Um, so we are inviting women who are experts to start actually building with us. So connect with me at the end. 

[00:40:54] Vince: And is it only for women? 

[00:40:56] Miri: Yes. 

[00:40:57] Vince: Okay. Because I was thinking on the partner side, I know many women leaders, experts that I could bring to you. 

[00:41:03] Miri: Please bring them all.And I have been asked the question why actually, um, actually I connected with Chris Kapp about this before and I love him.

 [00:41:13] Vince: I love Chris Chris Kapp is sell for the people that don’t know.

[00:41:16] Miri: so he asked the same question. Why for women only? And I was like, well, hold on. Just like Facebook, right? They came out and did something. It’s soft for something for. Then it went mainstream and it will probably, absolutely.

[00:41:28] Miri: But for us, um, for me, we have something to solve immediately. And it’s that equity, uh, and that accessibility to women. And that I didn’t have, and I don’t have still. And so it’s really, it’s really something that we want to provide and come out with, go to market with, and then we’ll open it up. But really for me is, my legacy is to be, 

[00:41:52] Vince: Um, I’m so excited about this.

[00:41:54] Vince: I can’t wait. We’ll share it with the world. 

[00:41:57] Miri: Yeah. 

[00:41:57] Vince: And I’ll introduce you to many people that maybe you don’t know that. 

[00:42:00] Miri: I can’t wait. Yeah. I can’t wait to meet everybody. 

[00:42:02] Vince: So let’s talk about meeting people. Um, we are hosting an event in Dallas, Texas, October 22nd and 23rd, and you’re going to be there. 

[00:42:10] Miri: I am. for the invitation. I am. 

[00:42:12] Vince: I am so excited to have you speak. 

[00:42:14] Miri: Thank you. 

[00:42:15] Vince: Uh, what are we going to talk about? 

[00:42:17] Miri: Yeah. So we talked a little bit of storytelling as a strategy and just, you know, high level. Really? We got high level. I’m going to get a little more granular on storytelling in the future of storytelling with AI.

[00:42:29] Miri: How have we, and especially me in my role, been integrating AI and things like copilot in the different areas to deliver stories that matter and to get through the junk, to get through the just the fluff and deliver succinct, content to our audiences because they deserve it.

[00:42:47] Vince: Nice. So you’ll be able to take us through like how to best use ChatGBT as a storyteller.

[00:42:52] Miri: Absolutely. 

[00:42:53] Vince: Oh, that’s fascinating. And what we’re doing at Microsoft, 

[00:42:55] Miri: we’ll be sharing prompts. We’ll be sharing, I’ll do a demo. So a lot of people love the live demo. So that’ll be fun. Um, but also like what prompts work and how to prompt. Uh, so talking about that, basically the power of AI right now, people are being, you know, Kind of skittish around how to use it.

[00:43:09] Miri: They think it’s like, it’s not Google, by the way. I mean, I love Google, but it’s not, it’s not like a search engine, right? It’s, it’s really a, uh, think of it as a smart intern, you know, it’s a, it’s, it’s something that can help you and can enable efficiently. Um, plus you get to train it at the same time and the more you train it.

[00:43:28] Miri: The more output you’re going to get out of it. So a lot of times now, especially as CEOs, you’re like, well, do I have to go hire a storyteller? Uh, no, you’re probably you’re, you’re marketing teams doing some of that. Some salespeople are. So now that you introduce something like GPT models, uh, you are getting a lot of time back and they can use it.

[00:43:45] Miri: They should be using it for storytelling, which is going to work. Okay. 

[00:43:48] Vince: If you haven’t registered yet, right. It’s a registrations open. Theultimatepartner. com go to the registration events page and sign up because Miri is going to be out. I mean, it’s just outstanding having you here today, but on stage is going to be a whole nother level.

[00:44:02] Vince: It’s going to be 

[00:44:03] Miri: fun. 

[00:44:03] Vince: And I think we’re going to have some of these books available for, for people too. Great. We might be giving a, having a giveaway. We’ll talk about that. 

[00:44:10] Miri: Okay. 

[00:44:10] Vince: But you have to come. Um, I have a favorite question. Okay. That I love to ask my guests. Yes. And, um, I just found out the New York Times has stole my question.

[00:44:22] Vince: They’re starting to ask people this same question. I have been asking this question for years now. 

[00:44:28] Miri: Ah. 

[00:44:28] Vince: But, Miri, you’re hosting a dinner party. 

[00:44:31] Miri: Okay. 

[00:44:31] Vince: And you can invite any three guests. 

[00:44:34] Miri: Okay. 

[00:44:34] Vince: From the present. 

[00:44:35] Miri: Mm hmm. 

[00:44:36] Vince: Or the past. 

[00:44:37] Miri: Okay. 

[00:44:38] Vince: One or two guests have actually given us guests from the future.

[00:44:42] Vince: Pretty interesting. 

[00:44:44] Vince: And we can talk about where we’re going to host this party. I’d love to hear where you, like a favorite place to have it. 

[00:44:48] Miri: Okay. 

[00:44:49] Vince: Whom would you invite and why? 

[00:44:51] Miri: So I have three, three choices. Oh my gosh, that’s a hard question. I remember you asked me this question before. I think I’m going to give it a shot. 

[00:44:59] Vince: You have to use different answers. 

[00:45:00] Miri:  I’m gonna. I don’t remember what I said. Okay. Every time it’s going to be different. Um, okay. So I, I, I think I would like to have the, the, uh, the, the dinner in Morocco. I’ll tell you about it. Yeah, the food is so good. 

[00:45:13] Vince: Is it? Oh my gosh. Because we were talking about Italy earlier. 

[00:45:16] Miri: Italy is Italy. But Morocco has this fusion of Arab and, um, and French food. And it’s just, the, the flavors are incredible. So we could have a really beautiful dinner. Sounds fabulous. In Morocco, like overlooking the desert or something. Um, I would definitely would love to have Da Vinci.

[00:45:32] Vince: Leonardo da Vinci 

[00:45:33] Miri: Leonardo da Vinci and I would love to have him because I just want to hear his his brain like I just want to understand what is what’s top of mind. This is a person who I mean talk about stories. He built everything. He did everything. He, he was just, I mean, 

[00:45:49] Vince: First helicopter.

[00:45:51] Miri: He was everything. He was a painter. He was an architect. He did so many things. And I’m like, how can somebody just, how can all of us really do all the things? And we can. And he’s just, and I would love to ask him, how, how do you do all the, how did you do all the things? Like, how, what was going on in your head?

[00:46:04] Miri: Um, and one of the things that I love about him is that he activated stories. In everything that he did. He had a story of the why a lot of times. We really, yeah. And so he’s, you know, why did I do this? He took a lot of notes. He took a lot of notes. And Milan, there’s a whole, there’s a whole gallery actually of his notes.

[00:46:21] Miri: Fascinating. Uh, and he’s just explaining like his, his why, like why he saw something like that, why he thought about something. It’s just, I love the why. I think it’s a great, great, great thing. I would love to see Steve Jobs . 

[00:46:34] Vince: I would as well. I mean, his, um, you know, we, Microsoft, Apple was always the bad guys, but what an amazing marketer and storyteller, storyteller.

[00:46:45] Miri: And I, so I think he changed the game for us in tech. I think he was the one that showed up and said, I can sell a product or I can sell a story. And if I sell the story, I’m going to sell the product and more. And he did that really, really good. I mean, we can all attest to that. 

[00:47:01] Vince: There is a famous uh, video of him leading a group of marketers when he first came back into apple and the first campaign, the geniuses whatever it was called the um, Crazy the crazy no the crazies.

[00:47:15] Miri: Oh the crazies. Yes. 

[00:47:16] Vince: Yeah, that is just fascinating. 

[00:47:18] Miri: So good And then I would love to meet one of my ancestors And I I’ve been you know, really doing an entire just kind of ancestry I’ve been on this journey.

[00:47:31] Vince: Take us through your ancestry. 

[00:47:32] Miri: Yeah. Well, so I was, I was, I’m born in Venezuela and I came here when I was 13 and I’m actually, so I’m a, I’m like 50 percent indigenous.

[00:47:40] Miri:. And then European from Spain and Portugal, the other 50. 

[00:47:44] Vince: Cause there’s also a lot of Italians in Venezuela as well.  

[00:47:47] Miri: There is a lot of Italians. I didn’t get that passport, man. I wish I had. There is a lot of Italians. Actually, Venezuela, Venezuela is, uh, the Italians dubbed it little Venecia. 

[00:47:56] Vince: That’s where the name came from.

[00:47:58] Miri: Yes, that’s where the story came from. Um, and so I would love to meet my ancestors because I, part of our own stories come from our past. 

[00:48:08] Vince: Yes. 

[00:48:08] Miri: And they inform our future. And the more I know about them, the more I know about myself and where, where I’m going, where my legacy is going. Oh, 

[00:48:14] Vince: I love this. 

[00:48:15] Miri: And I have been doing a lot of work of, well, through my own, you know, medical journey.

[00:48:20] Miri: I had to really think about genetics because I was actually diagnosed. I have a, the BRCA gene is a gene mutation and that’s, I had no, I was the first one in my family diagnosed with the BRCA gene and, and even though it never skips generation. So somebody in my family has it on either side. So I started to really learn about epigenetics and, uh, and gene mutations and I thought how interesting this entire thing is.

[00:48:41] Miri: We, we have so much of us that is integrated in our story, in our history that we don’t think about. But when we think about it, it makes it I have an engineer that I mentor and he was like, you know, I, he’s like, I love what I do here. He’s at Microsoft. He’s at, he’s at Xbox. And he goes, but I’m always, it’s like, I always want to work with my hands.

[00:48:59] Miri: I always want to work with my hands. And it’s like, I love to code, but I just want to work with my hands. And so we did the work with him and he finds out that he has like this insane Irish background. And they’re like, the, like his, like, Great, great, great parents, great parents, how like they were like, uh, smiths.

[00:49:15] Miri: And so he’s like, that’s where it comes from. It’s in my blood. And so it’s part of like our story. And I think when we integrate that and then we enable tech as part of that, cause we didn’t have that technology. We have it today. My gosh, we have like, we can, we can really leave a great legacy, a personal one and a corporate one.

[00:49:33] Miri: Uh, while we, when we infuse our ancestry plus technology. 

[00:49:36] Vince: So this is so fascinating because as you know, I’m going to Italy, 

[00:49:39] Miri: I know, 

[00:49:40] Vince: and I’m going back to the villages where my grandparents are from. 

[00:49:43] Miri: I know. And I cannot wait to hear those stories. 

[00:49:45] Vince: Oh my goodness. 

[00:49:46] Miri: You’re gonna just like it’s it and you it will change your life.

[00:49:49] Miri: I’m going to tell you that because it gives you mission. It gives you it reminds you of where you come from and where you’re going to go. It gives you mission and it just it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. 

[00:49:58] Vince: So can I come to the party? Do I get to go? I can bring dessert. 

[00:50:03] Miri: Well, you’re the host, so you’re already invited.

[00:50:05] Vince: Morocco sounds fascinating. I can see this beautiful desert setting. 

[00:50:10] Miri: Sunset. 

[00:50:11] Vince: White tablecloth. Tents. I love it. I love it. 

[00:50:14] Miri: Music. They play a lot of, like, weird, like, I shouldn’t call it weird, very intricate instruments that they have, like, handmade instruments. And it’s just beautiful. It’s wonderful.

[00:50:21] Miri: Wonderful. 

[00:50:22] Vince: Wonderful. So, um, I really want to thank you. So great of you to come up here. So great to have you on this podcast. Um, we have a lot of listeners and viewers that are trying to align for their success. Um, you know, this is a, I call this the tectonic shifts we live, we’re living through right now.

[00:50:41] Vince: Yes. I mean, this is a time like no other. I think it started during COVID. I mean, if you think about what’s happened geopolitically and just our lives. Economically, our world has changed. Uh, companies don’t operate the same way that they did. The cultures have changed. Hyperscalers, Microsoft, Google, and Amazon really dominating the world.

[00:51:00] Vince: I mean, everything is changing right now. What’s the best advice you can give to our listeners and viewers watching today to optimize for their success going into 2025? 

[00:51:11] Miri: Great question. Great question. Um, you’re all leaders because you’re doing something good, right? Already you’re all where you are because you’ve attained great skills to lead a team to lead an organization, uh, to lead an entire company.

[00:51:25] Miri: And that’s all wonderful. Um, but I ask of you to think again about legacy, personal legacy and empathy. And how can you turn that into your superpower? Um, how does that look for you for your team? How does that look Um, you know, it’s it’s it’s important. For your your customers and your partners. And when you think about that, it may look different to all of you.

[00:51:49] Miri: But when you think about it, it really it’s an exchange. Of energy that you’re giving and that you will see will be begin to change culture. You have the power to really change that culture and be be nimble through all the things that are happening right now. Everybody looks to you. You’re the leader.

[00:52:06] Miri: Everybody looks to you to for the mission, but not just the goals. The people mission. The culture mission because if you have a great culture, you know this, um, they’re gonna do what you need them to do. They’re gonna just they’re gonna be there. They’re gonna want to be there. So it’s all about culture.

[00:52:21] Miri: It’s all about. It’s all about people. You know, everybody’s asking themselves the same question. What is my legacy? Uh, where am I going? And if they can attach their personal legacy to yours, you got them. I am attached to the Microsoft legacy because our leader has infused that in us. And I’m there and I wake up every day to empower somebody to empower something.

[00:52:38] Miri: Uh, and that’s my legacy. And so I’m able to actually Do other things under that, that same umbrella. So can people say the same thing? Can your people say I’m attached personally, emotionally connected to this mission? Because my leader, that is his legacy and it goes beyond, you know, the numbers and the corporation.

[00:52:55] Vince: Yeah. The Stoics have a term for this and it’s, I’m going to butcher it, but I think it’s memento morte, which means remember that we’re, we’re only here. We’re all going to die. We’re all mortals. We’re all going to die. Yes. And so what do we want our legacy to be? 

[00:53:10] Miri: That’s it. Ask yourself. 

[00:53:11] Vince: Yeah. This is fascinating.

[00:53:12] Vince: I love, I love so much having you here today. 

[00:53:15] Miri: Thank you for having me. 

[00:53:15] Vince: And I’m so excited to host you in, in October. 

[00:53:17] Miri: I can’t wait. 

[00:53:19] Vince: Thank you so much, Miri. Thank you. For being an amazing guest, an amazing leader, and, uh, writing an incredible book, which is in, uh, you’re, you’ve had your second edition now, so we’re going to have the updated version.

[00:53:31] Miri: Yeah. I’ll bring you the updated version. All right. Terrific. 

[00:53:33] Vince: Thank you so much for joining Ultimate Guide to Partnering. 

[00:53:35] Miri: Thank you. 

[00:53:36] Vince: And for our listeners and viewers, um, I can’t leave without saying this. Take the time today to share this interview with your friends. Uh, we would love to have also a five star review comments on LinkedIn, uh, YouTube, and subscribe to our channels on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple.

[00:53:59] Vince: And I want to thank you for listening, joining, and viewing the Ultimate Guide to Partner. Thanks for listening to this episode of ultimate guide to partnering. Hopefully this episode and all the episodes we’ve recorded are helping you better align your partner strategy to achieve your greatest results.

[00:54:16] Vince: So I want to ask you something. Have you implemented everything you’ve been learning and are you now achieving the growth and revenue objectives that you hope to achieve? If not, it’s time to take action. Now join ultimate partner experience. We’re building the community I’ve always dreamed about. With UPX, you get access to exclusive industry insights, unparalleled networking opportunities, tons of educational resources, and support from a community that shares your goals.[00:54:47] Vince: Join us now. Visit our website, theultimatepartner. com, and sign up today.

Decoding Customer-Centric Innovation, the Future of Partnerships at Cisco