Zach and Annie dive deep into the art of transition, emotional pacing, and connection in long-term relationships. With their signature mix of warmth, honesty, and thoughtful reflection, they explore how couples can move from emotional distance to reconnection—without overwhelming each other.

The episode kicks off with banter about TikToks and volleyball, then shifts into the heart of the matter: how relationships evolve when we learn to slow down, name what's happening inside us, and give our nervous systems time to catch up. Annie introduces the concept of “titration”—a gentle, incremental approach to change—and explains how it can transform conflict, emotional intimacy, and even personal growth in marriage.

They also unpack the meaning behind defensiveness, offer powerful metaphors like “two stump spouses” and “learning how to swim before diving into the deep end,” and share a profound story from Annie’s own marriage about grief, rage, and radical honesty. 

Key Takeaways

Titration: A Slow Path to Growth

• Just like IV fluid must enter the body slowly to avoid harm, emotional intimacy must also be introduced gently.
• In marriage, rushing change can overwhelm both partners. Learning to pace growth allows real connection to develop.

Defensiveness Is a Signal, Not a Flaw

• Annie reframes defensiveness as the body’s way of saying, “Something in me needs defending.”
• This awareness transforms conflict into curiosity: What part of me (or my partner) is trying to stay safe right now?

Marriage as a Long Game

• Cultural myths tell us that getting married is the destination. But marriage is actually the beginning of a lifelong practice.
• Zach poses the question: When does the future start? The answer? Now.

The “Two Stumps” Metaphor

• Annie shares a client story: two spouses, emotionally worn down, feel like “stumps.” But even a stump can grow a new tree—if both people are willing to name where they are and choose to rebuild.

Narrating the Inner World to Bridge Emotional Distance

• Instead of acting from emotion, Annie shares the power of narrating your internal dialogue to a partner.
• Her story of grief and rage during her father’s passing—and how naming it created immediate connection with her husband—is a masterclass in vulnerability.

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Zach and Annie continue their deep dive into the complexities of relationships, trauma, and identity. After their last conversation, Annie had some lingering thoughts—so they reconvene to expand on the "divine setup" in marriage, the role of trauma in shaping our sense of self, and the ways we either grow or get stuck in our relational patterns.

Annie shares powerful insights on why we choose the partners we do, explaining that we often marry someone who fills a need or answers a question we have at that time in our life. But what happens when that need is met, or the question shifts? Zach brings in his own experiences and observations from working with couples, exploring how marriage evolves not just once, but over and over again.

They also tackle the difference between trauma and complex trauma, the ways we develop "superpowers" to protect ourselves, and the challenge of learning to let our partners be good for us when we've been wired to expect the opposite. Whether you’re interested in why your marriage looks the way it does, how past experiences shape present relationships, or how to create a new map for your future, this episode is full of thought-provoking and deeply personal wisdom.

Key Takeaways

The "Divine Setup" in Marriage

• We often choose partners who offer us something we were missing—whether it’s adventure, security, or stability.

Trauma vs. Complex Trauma

• Trauma is often a single event with a clear "before and after."
• Complex trauma is long-term, shaping how we see ourselves and how safe we feel expressing our true identity.
• Annie explains that marriage can provide a corrective experience, but only if we recognize our ingrained patterns and choose to challenge them.

The "Superpowers" That Protect Us—And Hold Us Back

• Many of our best traits are actually survival strategies we developed to stay safe in childhood.
• Zach and Annie discuss how intuition, flexibility, and people-pleasing can be strengths—but also barriers to real connection.
• The work in marriage (and therapy) is to identify what we’re protecting—and learn how to let our full selves be seen.

Learning to Let Your Partner Be Good to You

• If someone has grown up in an unsafe environment, trusting a good partner can feel terrifying.
• Annie shares how she spent years interpreting Matt’s kindness as a trick, until she consciously changed the way she listened to him.

Expanding the Map: How We Create a New Reality

• Our early relationships give us a "map" of how to do life—but that map can be outdated.
• Zach introduces a thought experiment: Can we imagine a different future for ourselves?
• If we can visualize a world where we are loved, safe, and free, we can start making choices that align with that future.

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Zach reconnects with one of his oldest friends, Annie, for an intimate and reflective conversation about friendship, marriage, personal growth, and recovery. Having known each other since summer camp in 1992, Zach and Annie have shared decades of milestones—from witnessing each other's weddings to navigating major life transitions.

Their conversation spans everything from early expectations of marriage to the reality of long-term relationships. Annie opens up about her experience with alcohol dependence, parenting struggles, and self-discovery, reflecting on the way her past shaped her approach to love and commitment. Zach brings his own experiences to the table, offering insights into how relationships evolve and the ways we set ourselves up—consciously or not—for specific relationship patterns.

This episode is raw, deeply personal, and full of hard-won wisdom about love, identity, and change. Whether you’re in a long-term marriage, newly navigating relationships, or interested in the intersection of personal history and relationship dynamics, this episode is an honest look at how we grow and redefine love over time.

Key Takeaways

Friendships Can Be the Best Mirrors

• Zach and Annie have been in each other’s lives for decades, offering a unique perspective on each other’s growth, patterns, and blind spots.
• Having a long-term friendship means having someone who remembers who you were before you became who you are now.

Marriage Often Reflects Our Deepest Patterns

• Annie discusses "the divine setup"—the idea that we marry someone who mirrors how we’ve always related to people.
• She explores how past trauma and chemistry influence partner selection, sometimes without us realizing it.

How Recovery Changes Relationships

• Annie opens up about how quitting alcohol disrupted her marriage dynamic and forced both her and her husband to adjust to a new reality.
• Zach shares how personal health creates a gravitational pull, encouraging those around us to either adjust or resist.

Redefining What It Means to Be a "Good" Parent

• Annie realized that her early definition of patience as a mom was actually just repressing her emotions.
• She discusses how learning to tolerate her children’s emotions without fixing everything transformed her relationship with them.

Why Long-Term Marriages Keep Evolving

• Zach and Annie reflect on how their views on marriage have shifted from when they first got married to today.
• Annie shares a pivotal moment when she realized she had married someone who allowed her to relate the way she always had—but that didn’t mean she had to stay stuck in old patterns

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Zach sits down with Kyle and Ariel, a married couple who have been together for over 12 years and now run a business together, Couplepreneur, where they coach entrepreneurial couples on growing their businesses without sacrificing their relationships. From meeting as middle school sweethearts to reconnecting later in life, their story is one of personal growth, ambition, and learning how to navigate both marriage and entrepreneurship.

The conversation explores the challenges of working together as a couple, the power of open communication, and the critical role of setting boundaries between work and home life. Kyle and Ariel share personal experiences of overcoming emotional distance, embracing vulnerability, and making sure their relationship remains strong amid the demands of business. They also talk about the “before and after” moments in their marriage—key turning points that shaped who they are today.

Whether you’re a couple in business together or simply trying to balance ambition and intimacy, this episode is full of actionable insights and heartfelt reflections on what it takes to grow together rather than apart.

Key Takeaways

Balancing Love and Business

• As entrepreneurs, Kyle and Ariel had to learn how to separate business discussions from personal time to protect their relationship.
• They created clear boundaries, including their Sacred Sundays—a full day dedicated to rest, connection, and quality time.

Navigating Emotional Intimacy and Vulnerability

• Kyle shares how he once held back from discussing personal struggles out of fear of judgment, which led to emotional distance.
• Once he opened up, it deepened their connection and helped Ariel feel more secure and less anxious about their relationship.

The Power of Clear Communication

• Many couples assume conflict is negative, but Kyle and Ariel emphasize that conflict, when handled well, leads to greater intimacy.
• Their approach? Check in regularly, communicate openly, and ask: “How can we both get what we want?” instead of compromising too soon.

From Middle School Crush to Life Partners

• They first dated at 14 years old before parting ways, reconnecting years later as different people.
• What made their relationship work the second time? A foundation of friendship, playfulness, and mutual respect.

Finding Purpose and Alignment in Life and Business

• Ariel’s past as a marine biologist and nonprofit leader and Kyle’s career as a rock band drummer and digital marketer led them to help other couples grow businesses together.
• They now run the largest Facebook group for entrepreneur couples and host an annual Couplepreneur Live event to support business-driven relationships.

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Zach sits down with Robin and Hector, a couple one year into their relationship, to explore the joys, challenges, and growth that come with navigating love in its early stages. Unlike many expert-driven episodes, this one offers a fresh, unfiltered look at a real couple figuring things out in real-time.

Robin and Hector share how they met, how their past relationships shaped them, and what they’ve learned about vulnerability, communication, and emotional honesty in their first year together. They dive into the power of early boundaries, the difference between “healthy” and “unhealthy” tension, and how they navigate the complexities of blended family dynamics.

Zach explores their philosophy on love, self-awareness, and conflict resolution, bringing in his own reflections on how early dating sets the stage for long-term success. Whether you’re in a new relationship or looking for insight into your own, this episode is a candid, engaging look at love in motion.

Key Takeaways

Saying “Yes” to Growth

• Hector reflects on his journey from introversion to embracing new experiences, both personally and in relationships.
• Robin shares how she admires his willingness to stretch himself, even in moments of discomfort.

Meeting Online & The Hinge Effect

• The couple met on Hinge, but their connection was sparked by deeper qualities—gratitude, curiosity, and values—rather than just profiles.
• Robin shares how Hector’s thoughtful messages immediately stood out in a sea of online dating experiences.

Navigating the First Year of a Relationship

• They discuss why vulnerability and emotional honesty played a key role in their fast-growing connection.
• Hector made a conscious decision to be fully himself from day one, sharing his struggles and past experiences early on.

Blended Family Considerations

• Both coming from previous marriages, they are taking a slow, intentional approach to introducing their children to one another.
• Robin acknowledges that her past experiences have made her more protective of her kids’ emotional safety.

How to Handle Early Relationship Challenges

• Robin shares how she pauses before reacting, checking whether an issue is truly about Hector or her own past experiences.
• They reflect on what it means to be truly honest while still speaking with care and emotional intelligence.

Their “10/10” Relationship Mindset

• When asked to rate their relationship, they both confidently answered 10/10—not because they’re perfect, but because they are fully committed and intentional.
• They emphasize that a great relationship is built on gratitude, generosity, and self-awareness rather than perfection.

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Zach sits down with Christa and Wes Hardin, founders of the Enneagram and Marriage platform https://www.enneagramandmarriage.com/. Christa, a seasoned relationship coach with a Master's in Clinical Psychology, has spent nearly two decades helping couples build stronger connections. Alongside her husband Wes, a physician assistant in family practice, they explore how the Enneagram has transformed their 24-year marriage and parenting journey.

The conversation dives into the dynamics of Christa as a Type 7 (The Enthusiast) and Wes as a Type 1 (The Reformer), exploring how their differences create both challenges and opportunities for growth. They discuss how personality-driven conflicts, like bedtime routines and parenting approaches, can either drive couples apart or deepen connection when handled with understanding and flexibility.

Zach, Christa, and Wes also reflect on the evolution of marriage, the value of "practicing" in relationships, and what they'd tell their younger selves about love, commitment, and personal growth. Whether you're an Enneagram enthusiast or just curious about how personality influences relationships, this episode offers practical wisdom, laughter, and honest insights.

Key Takeaways

1. Enneagram as a Relationship Tool

• Christa explains how the Enneagram helps couples quickly identify strengths, shadows, and growth areas.

1. Opposites Attract—and Complement

• As a structured, detail-oriented Type 1, Wes values routine and precision. Christa, as a free-spirited Type 7, thrives on spontaneity and joy.
• They share how understanding their core motivations has helped them balance health, fun, and family life.

1. The Reality of “Practicing” Marriage

• Both emphasize that marriage is ongoing practice—not perfection.
• They discuss how "expansiveness practices" help them navigate everyday challenges, like differing bedtime preferences, while honoring each other’s needs.

1. What They’d Tell Their Younger Selves

• Christa: "Don’t put your partner on a pedestal. Love them for who they are, not who you expect them to be."
• Wes: "Focus on what brings you joy together, and you'll naturally avoid much of the pain couples face."

1. Parenting with Personality Awareness

• They share how understanding their children’s Enneagram types (a 4, 9, and 7/6) has transformed their parenting approach.

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In this special Boat Night episode of Marriage Therapy Radio, Zach brings listeners into an intimate, long-standing tradition—conversations between close friends about relationships, personal growth, and the realities of marriage. Joined by longtime friends Sean and Greg, the three discuss the importance of having deep, open friendships where men can talk candidly about their relationships, struggles, and personal evolution.

The conversation explores whether it's okay to vent about your partner, how relationships evolve through multiple “marriages” within the same partnership, and the role of death and rebirth in love—not just metaphorically, but through real-life transitions. They also reflect on the greatest love stories of all time, challenging traditional narratives and examining what makes a relationship stand the test of time.

With humor, vulnerability, and philosophical insight, Zach, Sean, and Greg navigate topics ranging from romantic expectations to identity and care in relationships, offering listeners a rare glimpse into the kinds of conversations that deepen friendships and marriages alike.

Key Takeaways

The Importance of Male Friendships and Spaces for Honesty

• Boat Night is a long-standing tradition where male friends gather to talk candidly about their relationships, families, and personal struggles.
• Having a trusted space to process relationship challenges doesn’t mean bashing your partner—it means seeking perspective and growth.

Are You Allowed to Vent About Your Partner?

• The difference between "talking sh*t" about your spouse and "talking honestly" about struggles is intention.
• Healthy venting involves seeking understanding, not just resentment or validation from others.

The Reality of Multiple Marriages Within a Marriage

• Long-term relationships go through different “marriages”—seasons of deep change where partners must recommit to each other in new ways.
• “If you've been married four times to the same person, that means three marriages had to die.”

The Greatest Love Stories of All Time Aren’t What You Think

• Traditional narratives like Romeo and Juliet or Tristan and Isolde romanticize young, dramatic love, but real love stories are about long-term commitment, sacrifice, and growth.
• "In any love story, something has to die—fantasies, expectations, or parts of yourself—to make room for real love.”

The Fear of Expressing Desire in Relationships

• Zach reflects on how he encourages couples to be direct about their needs, yet struggles with openly expressing his own.
• Many people hesitate to voice their desires because it makes them vulnerable to rejection—or because they’re unsure what they truly want.

Who Cares for the Caregiver?

• As a therapist, Zach often supports others but wonders where he himself finds care and support.
• He wrestles with the tension between wanting to be strong for others and needing space to be vulnerable himself.

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Stepping into his new role as the solo host, setting the tone for a fresh era of the podcast Zach reflects on what’s ahead, expressing gratitude for listener support and outlining the exciting changes coming to the show.

Zach is joined by Dr. Stormy Hill and Teri Citterman https://loveandpickleball.net/, co-authors of In a Pickle: How to Master Love and Pickleball and Not Kill Each Other https://amzn.to/3QdMYhZ. They dive into how pickleball, the fastest-growing sport in the U.S., serves as a fascinating metaphor for relationships. From communication styles to competitive dynamics, they share personal stories and practical takeaways that couples can apply—whether on the court or in everyday life.

Even though Zach has never picked up a Pickleball paddle, he enjoys the conversation of how this sport fosters connection, builds emotional intelligence, and even teaches conflict resolution. Whether you’re a seasoned player or someone just curious about how play impacts relationships, this episode offers insight, laughter, and some surprising wisdom.

Key Takeaways

Pickleball as a Relationship Microcosm

• Dr. Stormy Hill and Teri Citterman discuss how playing together exposes key relationship dynamics, from communication to trust and teamwork.
• Couples often face “kitchen knife moments” (times of high frustration), but understanding emotional intelligence and boundaries can turn challenges into growth.

Lessons in Play and Connection

• Playfulness is a vital component of a healthy relationship, and pickleball naturally fosters joy, teamwork, and lighthearted competition.
• Safe words like “pineapple” and “pumpernickel” (borrowed from intimacy practices) can help couples navigate tension both on and off the court.

Avoiding Pickleball Divorces

• Many couples struggle when one partner is more competitive than the other, leading to frustration on the court.
• The first and second rules of pickleball? “Don’t be a dick.”
• Emotional intelligence matters more than skill—whether in pickleball or marriage.

Applying Relationship Strategies from the Court

• Love languages, intention-setting, and non-verbal communication play a huge role in both sports and relationships.
• Understanding a partner’s strengths and weaknesses, just like in a doubles match, creates more harmony at home.

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In this episode of So I Married a Relationship Expert, Zach and Laura sit down with renowned sex educator and author Dr. Emily Nagoski and her husband, Richard Stephens, to discuss how Emily’s expertise in sexuality and relationships intersects with their personal lives. Emily, known for her groundbreaking books Come As You Are and Burnout, introduces her latest work, Come Together, which focuses on sustaining sexual connection in long-term relationships.

The conversation explores Emily and Richard’s journey as a couple, from their serendipitous meeting on OKCupid to navigating challenges such as perimenopause, long COVID, and the demands of collaborative intimacy. Emily shares insights into her “emotional floor plan” model, which maps how emotions like care, play, and lust interact in relationships, offering couples a practical framework for enhancing connection and pleasure.

Richard provides a refreshingly candid and humorous perspective on life with a relationship expert, highlighting the importance of playfulness, empathy, and teamwork. Together, they normalize the struggles that even the most informed couples face, underscoring that expertise does not eliminate life’s challenges—it simply offers tools to address them. Whether you’re looking to deepen intimacy or better understand the dynamics of long-term relationships, this episode is packed with valuable lessons, heartfelt stories, and laughter.

Episode Highlights:

• Emily and Richard’s Love Story: From meeting on OKCupid to their early days as a couple, they reflect on how their shared values and collaborative mindset laid the foundation for their relationship.
• The Emotional Floor Plan: Emily explains her innovative model for understanding how emotional states influence sexual connection and how couples can use this framework to foster intimacy.
• Navigating Life’s Challenges: The couple discusses the impact of perimenopause, chronic illness, and other life events on their relationship, sharing how teamwork and humor helped them persevere.
• Insights from Come Together: Emily introduces key concepts from her new book, emphasizing the importance of pleasure over desire and the role of collaboration in overcoming relational obstacles.
• Empathy and Playfulness in Relationships: Richard shares how his lighthearted approach complements Emily’s intensity, creating a dynamic that fosters connection and resilience.

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Zach and Laura interview Terry and Belinda Berman-Real, diving deep into their personal relationship dynamics and the lessons learned through years of couples therapy and individual healing. The conversation touches on themes of sobriety, trauma, recovery, and the power of relational healing.

Zach starts by sharing his journey through recovery and how it has influenced his marriage, while Belinda and Terry provide insights into their own marriage, particularly how they overcame significant challenges stemming from trauma and emotional reactivity. They discuss the importance of repairing relationships through honest, sometimes painful, confrontation and how they’ve evolved from fighting for survival to fighting for love and connection.

One of the major takeaways is Terry’s explanation of the concept of "harmony, disharmony, and repair," emphasizing that no relationship is free from conflict, but the key lies in learning how to repair after the inevitable disruptions. Belinda adds that their journey has been one of learning to regulate themselves and each other in ways that foster love and security, rather than reactivity and defense.

They reflect on the impact of their trauma histories and how these experiences not only shaped their early relationship struggles but also led them to profound personal growth. Throughout the episode, Terry and Belinda share real-life stories, making this episode a rich blend of personal insight and professional expertise.

Episode Highlights:

• Sobriety and Growth: Zach reflects on his sobriety journey and how it has paralleled his growth as a partner, highlighting the importance of personal transformation in maintaining a healthy relationship.
• Trauma and Its Lasting Effects: Terry and Belinda share how their childhood trauma impacted their early relationship, focusing on the process of moving from emotional reactivity to emotional regulation.
• The Art of Repair: Terry introduces the idea of "harmony, disharmony, and repair," explaining that relationships aren't about avoiding conflict but learning to repair after conflict in order to strengthen connection.
• Partners in Recovery: Belinda and Terry discuss how they see themselves as "partners in recovery," constantly working on themselves and their relationship to break free from their old patterns and build something stronger.
• Fighting for Connection, Not Survival: The couple explains how their marriage has transitioned from fighting for survival to fighting for love, and the role that therapy, honesty, and self-awareness have played in that shift.

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In this episode of So I Married a Relationship Expert, Zach and Laura get personal with Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt—relationship experts who don’t just teach about marriage, they live it. Get ready for an intimate look at the ups and downs of their own marriage. Spoiler: it wasn’t all smooth sailing!

Harville and Helen open up about the times they nearly got divorced—twice! At one point, they even had divorce papers ready to go. But what saved them? They teach couples the very same techniques around the world. You’ll hear how a random trip to a bookstore and a “zero negativity” experiment helped them find their way back to each other. Helen also shares a funny story about trying to "fix" Harville by reorganizing his books and closet—only to realize she was driving him crazy!

From learning to approach frustrations with curiosity instead of criticism to recommitting in a powerful New Year’s Eve ceremony, their journey is full of relatable moments and inspiring takeaways. It’s a beautiful reminder that even experts have to work on their relationships, just like the rest of us.

What You’ll Learn:

• How Harville and Helen used their own tools to avoid divorce—twice!
• The story of their “zero negativity” pact and how it transformed their relationship.
• Why curiosity and asking your partner the right questions can change everything.
• The power of recommitment—even after decades together.

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