FILO’s Aubrey Wentz talks with Shawn Williams and Jeff Boriss from Willow Creek Church about the challenges of production people and pastors working together. Learning to communicate and teach each other what it takes to make Sundays happen are key ingredients to having successful outcomes…and not hating each other. 🙂

Show Notes:

FILO Cohorts: This episode is a recording from a 2024 Summer Skills Cohort. If you are intrigued to learn more about Cohorts or if you would like to sign up for one, head to filo.org/cohorts. 

Jeff’s FILO 2024 Breakout: Processes That Get You to Sunday Without Going Crazy

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In my work as a leadership coach, I often encounter church leaders who are frustrated with a lack of resources, progress, or vision–and sometimes all three at once. After twenty plus years of serving the local church, I’ve had plenty of those moments myself. The most difficult time was when things didn’t turn out as I had envisioned them. 

I bet you share my passion for doing things right and doing things well. But how do you do that when it seems like your resources aren’t keeping up with your vision?

Perspective

First, let’s talk about our perspective. There’s a striking story in 2 Kings 4. In verse 1, a widow comes to the prophet Elisha and says, “Your servant, my husband, is dead, and you know that your servant feared the LORD, but the creditor has come to take my two children to be his slaves.”

Not only does this woman have tremendous debt, but she doesn’t have enough to live on. She’s lost her husband, and now she may lose her son, as well. I can feel her sense of urgency and desperation. 

The story goes on:

Elisha replied to her, “How can I help you? Tell me, what do you have in your house?”
“Your servant has nothing there at all,” she said, “except a little oil.”
2 Kings 4:2 (NIV 1984)

Have you ever felt like that? When you look at what you have available to you, it feels like nothing. What happens in the rest of the story is nothing short of miraculous:

Elisha said, “Go around and ask all your neighbors for empty jars. Don’t ask for just a few. Then go inside and shut the door behind you and your sons. Pour oil into all the jars, and as each is filled, put it to one side.” She left him and afterward shut the door behind her and her sons. They brought the jars to her and she kept pouring. When all the jars were full, she said to her son, “Bring me another one.” But he replied, “There is not a jar left.” Then the oil stopped flowing. She went and told the man of God, and he said, “Go, sell the oil and pay your debts. You and your sons can live on what is left.”
2 Kings 4:3-7 (NIV 1984)

Here’s the key: the widow didn’t have everything she thought she needed, but God needed everything she had–even though it seemed like nothing to her.

The same is true for us: often, we must surrender our “not enough” to get to God’s “more than enough.” Sometimes, we dismiss or devalue what we have because we forget whose hands we place it in. God can take what seems like nothing to us and turn it into something we could never imagine!

The first question for us, as we consider what excellence looks like is, “What do you have in your house?” What is your “nothing at all, except”? Don’t discount it. Choose to give it to God wholeheartedly.

Practical

Now that we’ve adjusted our perspective let’s get practical! What’s most important to remember is that excellence scales. There is not one “standard of excellence.” It has to be relative to your context. Why?

Excellence is, first and foremost, a posture, not a product.

In the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25, the master doesn’t scold the person with two talents for not turning them into ten (like the person who started with five could do). Each servant was given according to their ability. It wasn’t about the outcome, as much as their obedience.

Not only can unhealthy comparison steal your joy, but it can also steal your vision. You can get so fixated on the talents in someone else’s hand that you essentially bury yours in a hole! Stop trying to compete with the church down the street. Stop comparing your church with the conference you attended or what you see on YouTube. Those things can be beautiful sparks of innovation, but you were intended to be a creative, not a clone.

Here are a few practical things to help you on your journey:

1. Rekindle Your Expectation. If you’ve grown weary or discouraged, it’s time to dream again. Take it all to God and ask Him to reset your vision.
2. Set Your Standard. Excellence is relative. As a team, discuss what excellence will look like for you. What areas are hitting the target? Where do you want to go? Who do you want to invest in? Once you set the standard, revisit it at least quarterly. Measure what matters, and don’t get distracted.
3. Grow on Purpose. Now that you know where you’re headed, look for opportunities to take on “bite-sized” areas of development as you get started. Don’t try to grow in every area all at once. Be on the lookout for leaders with potential and then create opportunities to equip them. 
4. Increase Your Capacity. In the story, the widow filled as many jars as she gathered. You increase your capacity by creating environments that will foster the kind of growth you want to see. Look for ways to invest in the areas or people that need support. Add more time to your rehearsals. Schedule monthly team workshops. Build relationships with other local churches to share best practices and even resources.

It can be hard to see all that something could be while living in what it is today. Don’t let the enemy discourage you. God has called us to be good stewards of what he has given us and He knows what you need. Obedience is our part; the outcome is His!

If you are interested in learning more from Brian Taylor, check out his breakout class from FILO 2024 “Getting the Right People in the Right Seats on the Bus: Hiring, Promoting, and Firing in a Ministry Environment”. 

Todd and Willow talk about why it is so important to figure out a vision for teams to understand what matters and what doesn’t. From there, they discuss why our volunteers need to hear the vision often, so that the whole team can be on the same page.

Show Notes:

You Matter To Us: We periodically ask the FILO Community on Instagram about what struggles they’re experiencing. We take those topics and produce content addressing those issues. Keep sharing and keep engaging in the Blog and Podcast platforms. We hope they serve you! 

Subscribe to the FILO Podcast: Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the FILO Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and be alerted any time we launch a new episode.

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It’s a unique and exciting situation when more people are eager to join your production team than the amount of serving roles you have available. This ‘challenge’ presents a unique opportunity to think outside the box and find ways to develop and grow our teams. Consider these three options:

1. The Power of Spiritual Gifts 

Each person carries a unique set of spiritual gifts—gifts that are not meant to be confined but nurtured and released in service. It’s essential to help new and existing volunteers understand the purpose of these gifts in God’s greater plan. There’s always an opportunity to guide them in discovering how their gifts can be refined, expanded, and used.  

As leaders, we are responsible for providing a framework for volunteers to understand  and explore their spiritual gifts. Encouraging intentional conversations or helping them learn more about their spiritual gifts (which you can learn more here, and they can take a test here) can help them uncover their potential. Below you will find a list of spiritual gifts that one can use in Production. Underneath each of the spiritual gifts are ideas for serving positions for new or existing production team members:  

1. Leadership 
Role: Production leaders, technical directors, and team coordinators. 

2. Administration 
Role: Production managers, schedulers, planners. 

3. Service (Helps) 
Role: Stagehands, setup and teardown crews, lighting and audio assistants. 

4. Exhortation (Encouragement) 
Role: Team leads, volunteers who support and mentor others. 

5. Wisdom 
Role: Senior production roles, strategic planners, problem-solvers. 

6. Knowledge 
Role: Specialists in audio, video, lighting, and tech. 

7. Discernment 
Role: Team leaders, content directors, decision-makers. 

8. Creativity (Craftsmanship) 
Role: Set designers, video producers, graphic designers. 

9. Faith 
Role: Prayer warriors, visionaries, those pushing boundaries in tech. 

10. Teaching 
Role: Trainers, mentors, team developers. 

2. Shifting to Coaching and Training 

With more volunteers than roles available, we can embrace the role of a coach and trainer, focusing on developing individuals rather than just filling roles. Start by identifying individuals on your team who could coach and, in turn, open a seat to new volunteers.  

As you onboard volunteers, let your approach be proactive in equipping them. Equip people not just for the role but for their growth. When we shift from simply recruiting (filling roles) to coaching (developing individuals), we help each person find their stride with a  committed individual to help them every step of the way.  

3. Mentoring the Next Generation 

Kids and students offer a unique opportunity for current volunteers to pour into the future. Whether in kids’ rooms, student environments, or other opportunities, this is a pivotal moment in their development as individuals and in their faith journey. They may not have a fully formed understanding of their spiritual gifts yet, but that’s where mentorship becomes crucial.   

Invite them into the journey of discovering their strengths. Allow them to shadow  seasoned volunteers and leaders. This offers immediate, hands-on training and mentorship.  The young people serving today will become the leaders of tomorrow, and their time in ministry  will profoundly shape who they become. 

Also, taking time to create development tracks specifically for kids and students can be a transformative experience. Whether it’s specialized training or regular check-ins to discuss  their growth, make sure they feel they are part of a community that sees and supports them.  

Practical Next Steps 

1. Create a Development Plan: Determine how you will help new and existing volunteers discover and grow their spiritual gifts and where that track leads them.  

2. Build a Mentorship Culture: Pair experienced volunteers with newcomers, especially kids and students, to provide a deeper, hands-on learning experience. 

3. Communicate the Vision: Be transparent about your team’s needs and growth plan. Help people see the bigger picture to understand their place in your team. 

4. Think Long Term: Remember that these volunteers are a blessing for the future. Your role is to develop them now so they can step into new ministry opportunities as they arise. Consider these extra people as future leaders. As you develop them, they’ll bring their gifts, wisdom, and  energy to the next wave of ministry opportunities, possibly even creating new roles or  ministries where their skills will be essential. This long-term thinking is crucial for the growth and sustainability of your ministry. 

In the end, having more volunteers than roles is a good problem. You can turn this abundance into an opportunity for incredible growth and deeper community impact through coaching,  training, and mentoring. The goal is to develop people holistically, equipping them for future ministry and life rather than simply filling the current gaps. 

By investing in them now, we’re setting the stage for a stronger, more vibrant future in our ministries—one where everyone, no matter their seat, finds purpose and fulfillment in their service.

Here at FILO, we know how hard it can be to balance regular production work and developing your own leadership skills. We want to help – this is why we created FILO Cohorts! We want to connect you with other production leaders and empower you to be the healthiest version of yourself. If you are interested in learning more, check out our Cohort page.

Todd is joined by the lead pastor and production volunteer at Hope Culture Church to talk about creating an environment for serving and setting a foundation for others to succeed.

Show Notes:

2025 Cohorts: The 2025 schedule of Cohorts has been released! Learn more and sign up today at filo.org/cohorts.

Subscribe to the FILO Podcast: Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the FILO Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and be alerted any time we launch a new episode.

Leave a review of the FILO Podcast: Your ratings and reviews help spread the word about the FILO Podcast to others. We’d appreciate your help! Leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Have ideas for the FILO Podcast? Email your feedback, send us your topic ideas or names of people you think we should interview! [email protected]

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I’ve heard the question asked: “I work for a church… how do I keep from feeling that Sunday is just another work day?” This is certainly understandable. Working in the local church, as with most things, is both rewarding and challenging. It is called work because it requires effort from us. Whether you are serving in the church as a volunteer or as staff, the call to use your spiritual gifts for God’s glory is clear. 1 Peter 4:10 says, “As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another ”. Serving others is an act of love. With this service, comes a sacrifice. We give time, energy, resources (and more) to serve. This pouring-out can deplete our spirit and begin to harden our hearts for what God has in store for us.

If we do not take care, this depletion will begin to weigh us down and hold us in a place of bitterness. Small cracks in our once solid foundation will grow into a gap that seems far too difficult to repair. We can prepare for this and be ready with a response to bring His truth back into alignment. We can choose to turn to His word for guidance and seek understanding. John 3:30 says, “He must become greater; I must become less.”

As believers, Jesus has called us to be free and live life to the full. We are not to use our freedom towards self-centered and selfish desires. Rather we are to serve one another in love. This act of love shows our love for Jesus. I am confident that we need to strive towards remaining humble before God. There are many distractions that are pulling us away from this stance of humility – all of them are just that, distractions. Our focus needs to remain on Him and on His calling for us. As C.S. Lewis said, “humility isn’t thinking less of yourself, it’s thinking of yourself less.” Humility is first serving God and our neighbors before serving ourselves. When we respond in obedience to Him and give Him all the glory and honor, we are practicing humility.

This reminder, to stay humble before Him, provides us with an opportunity to check our heart for serving others. Before the work begins, pause and ask yourself: “Who am I serving? And to whom do I belong?” This check-in brings a calming peace of understanding that we are children of God and we are chosen to bring his light to the world.

Caring for the production team and strengthening our bond and connectedness is vital towards creating a healthy team. If we stumble into a pattern of weekend services becoming a routine checklist of tasks to perform, we are missing out on the opportunity to live a life on mission for God. We should wholeheartedly enter into the weekends with our focus on making the name of Jesus known and showing His love.

Looking for opportunities to talk about challenges like this, and be in community with others facing the same struggles? Check out our FILO Cohorts!

Todd is joined by Christina and Adam to talk about collaboration. Coming from the production and creative ends of the spectrum, they talk about the ways they have found to work best together to accomplish the goals of the weekend service.

Show Notes:

Invest In Your Team: As we head into fall, now is a great time to invest in your team! Purchase copies of the FILO book and talk through the discussion questions at the end of each chapter. Or download a digital resource from a past Conference and watch it as a team. 

Rick Rubin’s Book: The Creative Act: A Way of Being

Subscribe to the FILO Podcast: Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the FILO Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and be alerted any time we launch a new episode.

Leave a review of the FILO Podcast: Your ratings and reviews help spread the word about the FILO Podcast to others. We’d appreciate your help! Leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Have ideas for the FILO Podcast? Email your feedback, send us your topic ideas or names of people you think we should interview! [email protected]

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Beau Norton joins Todd to talk about how, when and why use contractors to fill positions on the production team at church. They talk about the importance of consistency and team culture, as well as expectations from the church’s leadership.

Show Notes:

FILO Cohorts: There are a few spots left in the final 101 Cohort of 2024 that launches October 8th! Register today! If that Thursday weekly Cohort doesn’t work in your schedule, you can view the rest of the year’s schedule on our website. 

Subscribe to the FILO Podcast: Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the FILO Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and be alerted any time we launch a new episode.

Leave a review of the FILO Podcast: Your ratings and reviews help spread the word about the FILO Podcast to others. We’d appreciate your help! Leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Have ideas for the FILO Podcast? Email your feedback, send us your topic ideas or names of people you think we should interview! [email protected]

FILO Emails: The best way to stay in the loop with what FILO is up to, is to sign up to receive our emails.

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When Your Pastor Sees You, How Do They Feel?

When I was 16 and serving in my church, I loved being back at front of house making the music sound amazing. As a teenage volunteer, I wasn’t there every week and in the summertime there were a bunch of weekends that I was on vacation. When I would get back behind the console after being gone for a while, I had so many people come up to me and say “Thank God you’re back!” It didn’t make a ton of sense to me at the time, and I would just wonder what happened last week that could have been so bad that you’re so glad to see me?

One thing I thought was that maybe the other people on the team weren’t up to the task. I was just so much better than them. But upon reflection, I was pretty confident that that wasn’t the case. I was good, but not that much better than anyone else. And problems were happening on the weekends I was there, so it wasn’t like my weekends were flawless.

The more I thought about it and have reflected on it over the years, it was more about how I responded to the problems that came up. When the people on the platform looked back at FOH, they had a sense of relief that things were going to be OK, that I would be able to take care of whatever was going on. It didn’t mean that bad things wouldn’t happen, but that they would be handled.

When your pastor looks back and sees you in the booth, what are they thinking about you? Are they relieved to see you or are they wondering if everything will be OK?

One of the best ways we can support our leaders on the platform is a sense that you have stuff covered. The question is, how can we do that?

 

Be Visible

When something unplanned happens in a service, become visible so that the person on stage can see you and that you know something happened. When someone is on the platform and they know something isn’t happening correctly, it is helpful to see that someone else noticed and that they can stop wondering about it. It has become my knee jerk reaction to stand up as soon as I know that something just happened to become visible. 

The other helpful time to be visible is when there is a transition or a question on what’s going to happen next. If someone is about to call for a video, I stand. If someone is confused about what’s next, I stand up. I want to be the focal point for people on stage who have questions. If they can see me dialed into what is going on, then they can know they aren’t alone on stage.

Follow Up

After the service, communicate about what happened and what you plan to do about it. This shouldn’t involve shrugging your shoulders or pointing out why you need new gear. This should be about immediate solutions…what are we going to do before the next service.

Even if you don’t know exactly what happened or what you’re going to do about it, it is important to let people know that you know something didn’t work and that you’re going to do your best to figure it out before the next service. I used to have the luxury of having a Saturday night service, so I had 12 hours or more to figure out a solution. For many, there is only 30 minutes to work something out until the next service, so it is important to have a work-around plan until there is time to really dig into the long term fix. Communicate all this.

It is so important to get everybody on the same page, and agree on how to move forward. It might mean an easy solution. It could also mean a compromise. But one that everyone agrees to and adjusts to. Everybody understanding the plan going into the next service is key.

Remain Calm

As adjustments are made and solutions figured out, it is important to remain calm. Nobody needs to see you panic. That’s not helping anything. Especially if you’re visible, watching you lose your bananas doesn’t help build confidence. Very rarely is panic the right solution to any problem. It isn’t going to speed things up or help you solve the problem sooner. It is also vital to solve problems with intensity. It is key for people to feel the reality of how important it is to come up with a solution. But it is also important to show calmness. Calm intensity will help to build trust between the people on the platform and you as a leader at the back of the room. 

And frankly trust is the correct answer for what your pastor feels when they see you at the back of the room. If you answered the question differently, it is important to develop a new way to begin to establish a trusting relationship.

Learn more about this through the FILO Podcast Episode 109: Alex Sawyer “Building Trust”.

Todd is joined by Tim Stevens, former executive pastor at Willow Creek Church. They talk about the importance of the culture on a team and the part that each of us has to play in creating it in our own sphere of influence.

Show Notes:

Summer Skills Cohort: Journey with like-minded technical artists for growth and support as well as meet with an industry leader for an in-depth discussion around a topic. The best part? Sharing how you’re learning and growing with your group for added support and accountability. Join us for the final August session! Learn more at filo.org/cohorts. 

FILO Cohorts: There are a few spots left in the next 101 Cohort that launches August 15th! Register today! If that Thursday weekly Cohort doesn’t work in your schedule, you can view the rest of the year’s schedule on our website. 

Subscribe to the FILO Podcast: Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the FILO Podcast on your favorite podcast platform and be alerted any time we launch a new episode.

Leave a review of the FILO Podcast: Your ratings and reviews help spread the word about the FILO Podcast to others. We’d appreciate your help! Leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Have ideas for the FILO Podcast? Email your feedback, send us your topic ideas or names of people you think we should interview! [email protected]

FILO Emails: The best way to stay in the loop with what FILO is up to, is to sign up to receive our emails.

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When I first started doing production stuff at my church, I did it for the gear. I wanted the chance to play with the gear. I didn’t really care about what we were doing or why. I just like the shiny new stuff. Little did I know that there was way more to being a technical artist in the local church than the equipment I got to use. For one thing, there was the reason we were using all the gear...to create a worship experience for our congregation to meet with God. Secondly, the interpersonal dynamics at play between the stage and the booth was not something I was prepared for. After a few years passed, I realized that the relationship between the worship leader and me was the ballgame! I had a difficult time getting anything done when our relationship was strained. Since it was my job to execute their ideas, I needed to figure out how to get along with these people!It was one thing to realize this, but what could I do about it? How do I make sure that the relationship I have with my worship pastor can lead to amazing collaboration? At the base of it all is trust. Me trusting them, and them trusting me. So how do I build that trust? Here are three ideas.Do Your JobThis isn’t quite as harsh as “Just do your job, and shut up!”, but on some level I’m not joking. One of the most effective ways to build trust with the people on stage is to be good at what you do. As a production person, that means nailing all the little things that nobody really understands or cares about. Input lists. Stage plots. Neat and tidy backstage storage. Mics on when they are supposed to be. Lights aimed at the right things.These are all very “boring” tasks, but they make up the foundation of excellent production. Without them, we can’t hope to go deeper in the collaboration with our friends on stage. If you can’t do the “boring” stuff well, why would they want to hear what you think about their work or their ideas? It is difficult to talk about wanting the process to be better, if we aren’t handling our side of the equation well. Let’s say you complain about a particular guitar tone messing with your mix,  but no one can hear the worship leader when they are talking over the music. Why would anyone change their guitar tone when it’s obvious to them you don’t know what you’re talking about?The best way to build a solid relationship with your worship leader is to be as good at your job as possible. Without excuses. Without complaining. Just nail it. Buy CoffeeFind out your worship leader’s favorite foofy drink from Starbucks and show up with it. (Or maybe they’re a Dunkin’ person. Know the difference!) Do it more than once. Maybe even sit down and drink the coffee together. Talk about stuff. And not all work stuff. Life stuff. “How are you doing?” “How are your kids?” “What’s your favorite color?” Working with someone is not the same as knowing them. The context for our relationship is generally speaking, the pressure cooker of rehearsal and services. When we aren’t in the intensity of work, then we’re in meetings to figure out what we’re doing. Our whole relationship is built around a very narrow window of each of our personalities. You know what else? I bet that your worship leader doesn’t know all that much about you either. This coffee time is a perfect chance to share about your own life outside of production at your church. Who knows? Maybe you’ll discover that you like the same college football team, or the same flavor of ice cream, or that maybe you have the same favorite color!When you know someone beyond just one dimension of who they are, there is a chance you’ll trust each other a little more. You know me. I know you. You are more than just the mistakes you make or the ways you frustrate me on a Sunday morning.  Share the ResponsibilityPulling off weekend services together is a challenge. Or at least my part is. Their part looks easy. Not only that, but sometimes it feels like they make my part even more challenging than it needs to be.