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Made You Think

Nat Eliason and Neil Soni

Conversations that Stretch Your Brain Muscles

  • 1 hour 36 minutes
    119: Surviving Against All Odds: Endurance by Alfred Lansing

    “In that instant they felt an overwhelming sense of pride and accomplishment. Though they had failed dismally even to come close to the expedition's original objective, they knew now that somehow they had done much, much more than ever they set out to do.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! If you love exploration books as much as we do, you'll definitely enjoy this episode. Today, we're talking about Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing. Join us as we explore Shackleton's legendary expedition, where a crew of 28 men faced nearly two years of extreme conditions after their ship became trapped in ice.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • How Shackleton's leadership prevented descent into madness
    • Physical vs. mental challenges in extreme survival situations
    • Were previous generations tougher than we are today?
    • Antarctic exploration's parallels to modern space missions
    • The life-or-death decisions in the final rescue attempt

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode:

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    Books Mentioned:

    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:00) After an unintended hiatus, we’re back! We begin the episode with a tangent on our favorite blender, health insurance plans, and protein powder.

    (5:44) We begin our discussion of Endurance by Alfred Lansing. Nat shares a unique perspective, having read the book during his own trip to Antarctica.

    (09:15) The timeline of Shackleton's expedition spanned from August 1914 to September 1916, marking nearly two years of survival against impossible odds. Later on, Shackleton would help rescue another stranded crew in January 1917.

    (11:16) Endurance draws from the crew's journal entries, a common practice during the age of exploration when survival wasn't guaranteed. We discuss how these historical records parallel potential Mars missions in the future.

    (13:46) We explore current Mars exploration initiatives across the globe. China aims for a sample return mission by 2030, SpaceX targets 2028 for their missions, and India continues to advance their rover program.

    (18:01) The core of Shackleton's story unfolds: an attempted Antarctic crossing, leading to a two-year fight for survival. Despite the world presuming them dead, every crew member survived, with many later serving in World War I, highlighting their extraordinary resilience.

    (22:11) "Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success."

    Shackleton's legendary recruitment advertisement exemplified his unique approach to crew selection. Nat, Neil, and Adil also discuss whether the people of previous generations were tougher than we are today. 

    (30:30) Shifting the conversation to growing up in the pre-Internet era. We reminisce about outdoor adventures, early video games, and how different forms of entertainment shaped our imaginations compared to today.

    (35:54) The physical hardships endured by the crew were severe, with frostbite being a constant threat. Shackleton's leadership proved crucial, maintaining strict schedules and discipline to prevent the crew from succumbing to despair during their long wait trapped in ice.

    (39:26) We draw parallels between Shackleton's earlier failures and the Apollo 13 mission. 

    (42:41) The type of ship they chose for the journey actually had a huge impact on the outcome. Its specific shape made it vulnerable to being trapped within the large blocks of ice.

    (46:31) National parks and the preservation of nature. There are very few places left in the country where there is no light pollution at all.

    (49:43) After a year on the ship and another camping on ice, they modified their lifeboats for a perilous journey to Elephant Island. Shackleton's team then faced the task of scaling mountains without proper gear and navigating treacherous waters.

    (55:12) Nat, Neil, and Adil debate whether the physical or mental challenges were the most difficult to overcome in this expedition. Would you rather have been on the boat with Shackleton, or waiting for the boat to return for rescue? 

    (1:01:32) The book itself has an interesting publishing history. Though it achieved only modest sales during Lansing's lifetime, it found massive success about a decade after his death.

    (1:07:49) We reflect on a few other books we've read on energy. If you have any recommendations, send them our way! 

    (1:13:07) A discussion about current political leadership's understanding of technology and its implications for policy decisions.

    (1:20:55) The 'Make American Healthy Again' efforts, healthcare system incentives, and potential future programs in the U.S. What is to come under the new administration?

    (1:24:59) It wouldn’t be an episode of MYT without a little crypto and meme coin talk!

    (1:34:58) That concludes this episode! If you're interested in reading Endurance, you can grab a copy of the book here. Next up on the podcast, we will be reading Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa. Make sure to stay tuned to our website to see what's next and leave us a book rec!

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    11 December 2024, 10:52 pm
  • 1 hour 9 minutes
    118: Attention is All You Need: The World After Capital

    “The amount of human attention in the world is finite. We have 24 hours in the day, some of which we need to spend paying attention to eating, sleeping and meeting our other needs. The attention during the remaining hours of most people in the world is taken up by having to earn an income and by consuming goods and services, leaving relatively little time for attention to be freely allocated. A hard limit on available attention also exists for humanity as a whole—as I argued earlier, we are headed for peak population, at which point we will no longer be increasing the total amount of potentially available attention by adding more people.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're covering The World After Capital by Albert Wenger. We'll explore the transition from the Industrial Age to the Knowledge Age, the new scarcity of attention, and the potential for widespread societal change. Join us in this futuristic discussion as we ponder how digital technologies are reshaping our world and the future of human civilization.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • The shift from capital to attention as a scarce resource
    • How we're heading into a future that's non-linear
    • Why "everyone needs to" is not a practical solution
    • The role AI may play in replacing jobs and technological adaptation
    • Do we agree with the author's proposed solutions?

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

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    (0:00) In today’s episode, we’re diving into The World After Capital by Albert Wenger. We kick off the episode by reflecting on previous episodes and reads we’ve had with books that debates what is coming after the current industrial era. What’s next for human civilization? 

    (3:57) One of the book's strengths is its historical framing. While Wenger presents the situation well, his solutions and theories about the future were hard to fully agree with. 

    (8:34) Nat, Neil, and Adil explain how Wenger sets up the big picture. He argues that we’re on the cusp of a major historical shift where we can no longer predict the next step due to fundamental changes. In each era, a scarcity drives human behavior. Today, Wenger contends that the finite resource is attention. 

    (10:55) Have we shifted the problem from capital to attention by untethering currency from a hard asset? Leading companies like Microsoft and Google are powerful not because of their capital but because they control our attention. 

    (14:57) Attention vs. time. Wenger refers to the "job loop" where time is exchanged for money. With the internet, you can create things with no marginal cost, selling without a major time investment.

    (16:42) Aside from attention, what other contenders do we have as the next scarce resource?

    (19:21) The book's purpose is not just to observe shifting scarcity but to highlight how each shift has led to widespread violence. Wenger aims to minimize or avoid this violence. Has the violence already started, and how might it differ this time around? 

    (24:52) How new inventions often replace old methods, and people adapt. AI could be the first technology in our lifetime to put many people out of work. Should we be worried? While we’re used to working with people in complex organizations, AI’s impact may take time to fully manifest, much like the gradual replacement of horses by cars.

    (32:01) Why learning how to work with AI tools can give you a future advantage. 

    (33:49) The world population faces fertility problems and declining birth rates. If population decline is gradual, it’s manageable. But how will it play out? 

    (38:01) Nat, Neil, and Adil point out one major disagreement they have with the author's idea of how to find meaning in your life.

    (40:30) The first of Wenger’s proposed solutions is mindfulness and meditation.

    (42:19) Wenger emphasizes information freedom with internet access for all, which is a good start. Decentralizing access ensures it can't be stopped or taken away. We also touch on the topic of universal basic income (UBI),

    (45:42) Do we just need to "get over" our right to privacy and scarcity thinking? We explain our disagreements with Wenger and how privacy may be incompatible with technological progress.

    (55:03) Transforming a place from dangerous to moderately safe is no easy feat. We examine El Salvador's turnaround under Bukele. 

    (1:00:17) Discussing the significant changes over the span of 20 years. We also talk about cars made in China, noting how the perception of "Made in China" has evolved from being seen as cheap to being recognized for quality.

    (1:03:15) If a solution requires "everyone needs to," it’s likely not a practical solution. Effective solutions must work with current incentives and human behavior. We discuss the importance of having a fluid career identity and finding deeper meaning in life beyond a job.

    (1:07:32) That concludes this episode! Have you read The World After Capital? Let us know your thoughts! Next up, we will be reading Endurance by Alfred Lansing. Grab a copy of the book here, check out our website, and give us a follow on Instagram to stay in the loop on what's happening on the Made You Think podcast.

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    16 July 2024, 8:44 pm
  • 1 hour 10 minutes
    117: Winning and Losing Millions in Crypto Confidential

    “I could hardly form the words. My mouth wasn’t working. My heart hammered in my ears and pins and needles burned my hands and feet. I squeezed my fists as hard as I could to get them to stop hurting as I stumbled into my office and fumbled through my laptop password, pulling up the message that had thrown me out of bed: 

    “Nat, someone found a way to hack us. It sounds bad. All of our funds might be at risk.”

    This was the absolute worst-case scenario. The one I’d pushed to the back of my mind. The one I pretended was impossible so I could sleep at night. I’d always accepted the risk that I could lose all of my money. But if I lost a hundred million dollars of other people’s money…”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today’s episode is extra special as we talk all things Crypto Confidential, a brand-new book by our very own co-host, Nathaniel Eliason. Join us as Nat shares the behind-the-scenes journey of writing and launching his book. Whether you're a seasoned crypto enthusiast or just curious, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into the world of crypto through Nat’s insightful storytelling. 

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • Nat's journey of writing Crypto Confidential
    • Differences in promoting fiction vs. nonfiction
    • How Nat learned from other successful book marketers
    • Challenges of book promotion and strategy
    • The creative process behind book cover design

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

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    (0:00) In today’s episode, we delve into Nat’s upcoming book, Crypto Confidential, set to release on July 9th. Get your copy here! Nat discusses the book, the preparations for its launch, and the surprise of finding an early-released copy in a Toronto bookstore.

    (4:01) We explore the process of how bookstores order books, what it takes to keep them on the shelves, and the criteria for returning unsold copies.

    (7:40) Signed copies of books, and how authors get creative in distributing their signature across a wide number of publishings. 

    (12:52) Nat shares how he balanced promoting Crypto Confidential to his existing audience while also attracting new readers. He reveals his strategy of getting pre-ordered copies into readers’ hands early to generate online testimonials by the release date, despite disagreement from his publishers.

    (19:38) We talk about how the promotion strategy may change after the book release. At what point do you take your foot off the gas?

    (24:16) The effectiveness of word-of-mouth marketing and why it’s such a powerful strategy. We compare the promotion of fiction and nonfiction books, noting that fiction is often less promoted by authors and more by publishers. How does promotional work differ between these genres?

    (27:33) Nat talks a bit about his upcoming science-fiction book, HUSK, and how he would change his promotion strategy the next time around.

    (31:10) How can authors maintain momentum and sustain genuine interest in the book? The difference between organic enthusiasm surrounding the book vs. prompted posts.

    (36:00) Insights from successful book marketers and the strategies that contributed to their success. Spoiler: It’s NOT about bombarding your email list.

    (38:29) The importance of incorporating valuable content into your books. Regardless of the niche, avoid creating “popcorn” books that lack substance.

    (43:44) Being committed for the long haul as an author, and how it can often take years and multiple books to see your success.

    (45:50) We dive deeper into the book and explore Nat’s motivation behind writing it. Plus, Nat emphasizes the importance of portraying both the lows and highs to engage readers emotionally throughout the narrative.

    (50:31) What was something that Nat had to cut from the final version of the book? He shares more about his experience with Olympus and how easy it is for people to get carried away while trading. 

    (55:06) The story of Crypto Confidential began in early 2021 as Nat started to get more into crypto. He eventually found his writing sweet spot by focusing more on narration and less on detailed explanations, with the intermediary chapters providing essential, but non-critical, background information.

    (1:01:08) The cover of Crypto Confidential. What guidance was given in order to come up with the final cover of the book?

    (1:04:42) Nathaniel Eliason vs. Nat Eliason 

    (1:07:17) That wraps up this episode! If you’d like to order a copy of Crypto Confidential, you can do so here! Make sure to leave a review and let us know your thoughts on the new book. This is a great read for anyone regardless of if you’re into the crypto world or not. Stay tuned for our next episode covering Endurance by Alfred Lansing.

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    5 July 2024, 2:24 pm
  • 1 hour 40 minutes
    116: What Was It All For? WWI by Martin Gilbert

    “If the war was to be over by Christmas, as many believed, or at the latest by Easter 1915, tens of thousands of soldiers might be killed or wounded before the guns fell silent. Every army believed that it could crush its opponents within a few months.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Join us as we dive into The First World War by Martin Gilbert. We'll explore the intricate details of WW1, from the seemingly pointless triggers to the significant aftermath that reshaped the world. We'll also touch on intriguing historical anecdotes, like Germany's return in WW2, and the far-reaching consequences of redrawing borders. History lovers, buckle up for this one!

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • Technological advancements from cavalry to tanks and planes
    • How WW1 redrew the map and ended empires
    • The concept of 'war guilt' and its impact
    • America's pivotal role and the intercepted telegram
    • The seemingly unnecessary triggers of the first World War

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

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    Mentioned in the Show:

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    People Mentioned:

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    (0:00) Today, we’re covering The First World War by Martin Gilbert. While the book offers a detailed play-by-play of WW1, it wasn't the most enjoyable read. However, we gained significant insights into the war.

    (4:53) The war’s triggers and conflicts felt somewhat pointless. Despite this, WW1 felt more significant than WW2 as it redrew maps and ended four empires. Unlike WW2's clear-cut good vs. evil narrative, WW1 began with cavalry and ended with advanced technology like planes, tanks, gas, and submarines.

    (8:02) Numerous underlying tensions grew and eventually exploded in unpredictable ways. One of the triggers was Germany’s insecurity about its geographical position. We delve into the circumstances that led to the start of the war.

    (11:10) A major theme was the widespread belief that the war would end quickly, without long-term consequences. We discuss what wars were like before WW1, typically regional with smaller armies and less impact on civilian populations.

    (13:57) What was the aftermath of the war like? You might belong to a different town or region, but it may not have affected your daily life much.

    (18:00) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about the multiple empires that collapsed during this time. 

    (20:10) War guilt was a new concept, unlike previous wars where the winning side simply negotiated their gains. The sheer number of deaths and the devastation of this war was shocking. 

    (25:35) How did the Ottoman Empire get involved and what was their involvement in the war?

    (27:05) The Germans came back much stronger in WWII, despite being devastated in WWI. They put up a bigger fight just 20 years later. It leads us to wonder, from where did they find the resources?

    (31:38) How the war marked a complete era shift. Would communism have had as much impact in the 20th century without WWI? Would the Soviet Union have emerged?

    (34:42) We take a look at a map of empires before WW1 and how the territories looked before then, which leads into our first tangent of this episode!

    (37:52) Though Mexico wasn't involved in the war, Germany sent them a telegram promising several U.S. states in exchange for support. The British intercepted this message and informed the U.S.

    (40:34) America's entry into the war truly tipped the scales and accelerated the conflict. They joined gradually, but their involvement turned the tide. We discuss the telegram that prompted America's entry into WWI.

    (43:58) We were surprised by the advanced use of submarines in WWI. It's fascinating to consider how much the world has changed, especially thinking about the Ottoman Empire, which lasted over 600 years.

    (47:49) WWI was the first time oil played a significant role, and the Ottoman Empire had some of the largest oil reserves. Had they survived, they could have controlled one of the 20th century's most crucial resources. From the four dissolved empires, 40 new countries emerged.

    (50:12) While book wasn't the most entertaining and it felt repetitive, its importance lies in how it made people rethink the norms and rules of engagement. If a major war broke out next year, for example, there would likely be a similar period of figuring out new ground rules.

    (57:15) The Russian Revolution. Two generations of European leaders were responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people. With two major world wars only 20 years apart, the loss of life was staggering.

    (1:02:11) In the last 6 months of the war, everyone believed they were losing. The Germans were preparing to surrender, and the British doubted they would make it. After the war, the US never ratified the Treaty of Versailles and chose not to get involved in the aftermath.

    (1:06:31) The redrawing of borders after the war marked the end of colonialism, profoundly impacting various parts of the world. Much of the end of colonialism stemmed from the end of WW1 and the dissolution of empires. The poorly executed division of territories led to cascading conflicts in the aftermath.

    (1:11:25) The Hapsburg empire isn't extensively covered in the book, yet it was a very old empire, with its dynasty dating back to the 11th century. The exact beginnings are unclear since it follows a family rather than a defined state, making the timeline a bit blurry.

    (1:13:34) We talk about the Marshall Plan. Would the Marshall Plan be effective in a kingdom-era setup? Plus, we talk about the idea of 'collective insanity' and how it can be seen as a form of self-governance, where a group loses its rationality as opposed to just an individual.

    (1:20:25) There were many overarching themes of the book and the war as a whole: From the end of the old European system to the transition from kingdoms to states.

    (1:24:01) Geographical positioning and how that plays a huge impact where you sit on the map. Much of the war is a downstream of geography. Some European countries were at a disadvantage based off of where they are on the map. 

    (1:30:25) How lives changed drastically because of the war. One day you’re working your normal job and the next you’re on the front lines of the war.

    (1:35:59) Neil and Adil give their final thoughts on the book, Gilbert’s writing style, and what they took away from reading the book. 

    (1:38:47) That wraps up this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode where we'll be reading Endurance by Alfred Lansing. Make sure to pick up a copy of the book and head on over to our website to see what's next.

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    26 June 2024, 12:14 pm
  • 47 minutes 26 seconds
    115: Einstein’s Dreams by Alan Lightman

    "The tragedy of this world is that no one is happy, whether stuck in a time of pain or of joy. The tragedy of this world is that everyone is alone. For a life in the past cannot be shared with the present. Each person who gets stuck in time gets stuck alone.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we explore the concept of time through the lens of one of the most imaginative books of our time, Einstein's Dreams. The novel portrays Albert Einstein as a young scientist grappling with his dreams as he works on his theory of relativity. This episode promises to spark deep reflection, ignite your curiosity, and challenge your perception of time.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • The hidden costs of immortality
    • Contemplating a world where every day is a fresh start
    • Why it’s easy to forget to appreciate the things you have
    • How death ultimately gives our life meaning
    • Our most obnoxious literary opinions

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: Books Mentioned: People Mentioned: Show Topics:

    (0:00) In today’s episode, we're covering Einstein’s Dreams by Alan Lightman. Adil shares his experience going through the book for the 3rd time, noting its unique approach devoid of traditional characters yet filled with intense emotional resonance across the theme of 'time'.

    (2:43) The stories challenge the way we think about time, with each chapter introducing a unique time variable that initially appears distinct on the surface. However, beneath the surface, these chapters resonate with aspects of our own reality. We list off a few chapters that were top of mind for us.

    (6:10) Death is what gives life meaning. We explore this concept by diving into one of the short stories where nobody dies. If you know that time is infinite, how would you spend that time? 

    (8:45) Which chapter(s) of Einstein's Dreams did we connect with the most? 

    (11:16) We discuss the concept of sleep training, contemplating the ideal scenario where babies would sleep according to their natural rhythms. However, balancing the baby's freedom to sleep spontaneously with the demands of a structured work and life schedule can be a struggle.

    (12:32) Nat, Neil, and Adil ponder the scenario if everyone were to just live one day. You wouldn't know seasons, and all you'll ever know is what the current day brings.

    (16:08) Connections between Einstein’s Dreams and a previous read on the podcast, The Fourth Turning. 

    (17:51) Despite not having main characters (aside from Einstein and Besso), this book still manages to drive a lot of emotions. We admire Lightman's ability to write in a soft, empathetic way, while painting the picture for readers very effectively. 

    (19:59) Were these short stories from the book thoughts that Einstein may have had in real life as he worked towards his theories on time and relativity?

    (23:45) We touch on a story from the book where every day is truly a fresh start, and there is no knowledge of the past or future. 

    (26:45) Doing everything as if it’s for the first time will give you excitement, but it’s also meaningful to act as if you’re doing something for the very last time. 

    (28:25) Einstein's theory of general relativity, and how at the time of this theory, it was still unknown in the world of physics that the world is constantly expanding rather than fixed.

    (30:27) Though it may not be the longest book, it still hits hard. Nat, Neil, and Adil share their appreciation for Einstein's Dreams being impactful despite the length. It's one of those books that can make you feel a different way each time you read it.

    (36:47) Shoutout to Jack for the book recommendation on Musashi! If you have any book recommendations that you’d like us to pick up for the show, you can submit them to us here. 

    (38:55) You can get away with a lot in books, but what about a 35,000 word speech? We talk about John Galt's mighty speech in Atlas Shrugged. So long as you give the readers a reason to finish the book and recommend it to others, you can really do what you want within the pages. 

    (44:17) That concludes this thought-provoking episode! Next up, we're tackling Martin Gilbert's The First World War. Make sure to give our new Instagram page a follow and shoot us a book recommendation. If you have any recs, please send them our way!

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    15 May 2024, 11:21 pm
  • 43 minutes 37 seconds
    114: Book vs. Big Screen: 3 Body Problem on Netflix

    "But if science tells you that something’s impossible, and it happens anyway, it means one of two things. Either the science is wrong, or it’s a scam.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're exploring the 3 Body Problem TV series on Netflix, inspired by Cixin Liu's acclaimed novel. Listen in as we discuss Season 1's adaptation from book to screen, analyzing character shifts, narrative changes, and the portrayal of scientific concepts. If you enjoyed The Three-Body Problem book series or consider yourself a sci-fi fanatic, this one is for you!

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • What narrative changes and expansions were made for the TV adaptation
    • The show's production costs compared to Game of Thrones
    • How the creators translated the scientific aspects from the book series
    • Our main praises and critiques of the show
    • Book or series - is there a clear winner?

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

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    Mentioned in the Show:

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    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:31) Welcome to our first TV show episode! Today, we’re covering the TV series based on one of our previous reads, The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu. Go check out the episode on the book if you haven't already! We dive into our overall thoughts on Season 1 and how it measured up to the book.

    (4:09) *Spoiler alert!* If you haven’t watched the show or read the book series, we suggest you do that first before continuing this episode. We talk a bit about the depth, or lack of depth, of the characters in the book and TV series.

    (6:55) Neil talks about the pivotal scene in Episode 5 that changed his mind about the show, and how the shows portrayal of something can be completely different than what you had pictured in your head.

    (9:38) From character shifts to the order of events, how did the show differ from the book series? 

    (13:48) How the creators of the show had a unique challenge of keeping the intriguing scientific elements from the book series in the show while maintaining a pace that keeps the viewers interested.

    (15:43) The cost per episode in 3BP was higher than the final season of Game of Thrones. Which aspects of the show and scenes may have taken up the largest pieces of the budget?

    (21:24) We talk about the relationships between the heroes of the books and how they're all close friends. It sets you up to think there might be a happy ending... but is there?

    (25:36) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their thoughts on a character addition that wasn't in the books. 

    (28:45) From Blood Meridian to The First World War, many books have some grotesque elements to it. It's interesting to see how authors capture the emotions and events from something that actually happened and put them into a book. 

    (32:55) Our thoughts on the scene where the universe blinks, and how it was shown in the movie vs. in the book. 

    (34:50) We list off one major criticism of the show, as well as many things that we felt the producers did a great job on.

    (39:03) How effective was the show in portraying scientific aspects from the book? We share our final thoughts 3BP Season 1.

    (42:10) That concludes this episode! Make sure to check out our episode on The Three-Body Problem and check out the Netflix series if you haven’t already. We highly recommend it! Next up is Einstein’s Dreams by Alan Lightman. Pick up a copy of the book and read along with us!

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    6 May 2024, 9:33 pm
  • 1 hour 38 minutes
    113: Too Much of a Good Thing: Bad Therapy

    "We’ve never had a generation more focused on its feelings and, frankly, not one more tyrannized by their feelings.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're delving into Abigail Shrier's Bad Therapy, a thought-provoking book which highlights the impact of therapy on individuals, especially younger generations. Join us as we explore the nuances of therapy, its incentives, and its effects.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • Challenges of parenting in a therapy-centric culture
    • Unintended consequences of therapeutic incentives
    • The fine line between taking thoughts too seriously vs. dismissing them
    • Why boundary-setting is crucial as a parent
    • Implications of having an external locus of control

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode:

    Mentioned in the Show:

    Books Mentioned:

    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:00) In today’s episode, we’re covering Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier, who discusses the impact of therapy on individuals, particularly younger generations, and questions the efficacy and motives behind widespread therapeutic practices. 

    (1:57) We provide an overview of the book, examining the sense of loneliness and sadness prevalent in today's youth. It poses the question of whether therapy-related interventions are actually a part of the problem rather than the solution. 

    (5:32) How incentives in therapy can sometimes lead to unintended consequences. Shrier highlights that therapists often prefer patients with milder mental health issues, as these sessions can be more relaxed. This raises questions about the subjective nature of screening and diagnostic tools in mental health care.

    (10:15) The distinction between chronic and acute treatment, noting how the medical industry often favors chronic cases for their profitability. We touch on various types of therapy, noting that the results of physical therapy, for example, are much more tangible than talk therapy.

    (12:42) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk a bit about their personal experiences with therapy.

    (15:55) Why going to the gym and being physically active can improve well-being, and how it offers a sense of control and measurable progress in various aspects of life.

    (21:12) Shrier emphasizes the lack of agency children have in deciding to continue or end therapy. We also discuss how dwelling on problems, or forced rumination, can exacerbate issues, especially in the context of depression and anxiety.

    (25:19) We discuss how therapy can often lead us to give undue weight to passing thoughts, turning them into more significant concerns than they should have been.

    (29:33) It can be a challenge for parents to know when to seek therapy for children or teens. The author suggests exploring all alternatives before turning to therapy. We also dive into the theme of internal vs. external locus of control, where the fear of making mistakes can lead to seeking external validation.

    (34:25) Are doctors too quick to prescribe medications in non-serious cases?

    (39:51) Where is the balance between taking every thought and emotion seriously vs. dismissing them? We discuss generational differences, stoic parenting, the importance of discussing feelings with a trusted friend or partner, and the impact on children who feel unheard.

    (45:30) Similar to therapy and mental health, public sentiments on various topics can evolve over time. Nat, Neil, and Adil draw parallels with the changing views on vaccines, from widespread acceptance to increased skepticism post-Covid. We also touch on the topic of birth control, highlighting the lack of female perspectives in these discussions often dominated by male doctors.

    (53:26) Happiness, when constantly pursued, can often evade us. Instead, we explore the concept of finding contentment and balance in life, recognizing that happiness is not always the ultimate objective.

    (56:50) When we attribute our life circumstances solely to external factors, it can lead us to feel powerless.

    (1:02:37) We explore the notion of discipline and touch upon various parenting styles, including gentle parenting. 

    (1:06:05) Differences in the cultural dynamics of Zen X and Millennial parents. Each generation has its parenting narrative. It's about finding the balance between micromanaging and giving your child space, allowing kids to explore within set boundaries.

    (1:09:14) We discuss the dynamics of the nuclear family and how it affects the level of involvement from extended family members.

    (1:14:11) Differences in parenting style based on immigration status, and how punishment was carried out between different generations of parents. 

    (1:18:37) There's an internal pressure to be a flawless parent, often fueled by therapy that revisits childhood experiences. This cycle of rumination can lead to hyper-vigilance in parenting.

    (1:24:08) Social media's impact on how we view and express ourselves on different issues.

    (1:28:56) The level of risk in your humor often reflects the closeness of your relationships. However, we must be careful as words can always be misconstrued.

    (1:31: 37) Can empathy actually have negative consequences? Nat, Neil, and Adil share their final thoughts and takeaways from the book.

    (1:36:48) That wraps up this episode! If you were intrigued by today's discussion, check out Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier. Next up on the show, we'll be covering Einstein’s Dreams. Also, be sure to check out our new Instagram page!

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    11 April 2024, 11:15 pm
  • 2 hours 2 minutes
    112: Thou Mayest: East of Eden by John Steinbeck

    “I believe that there is one story in the world, and only one. . . . Humans are caught—in their lives, in their thoughts, in their hungers and ambitions, in their avarice and cruelty, and in their kindness and generosity too—in a net of good and evil. . . . There is no other story. A man, after he has brushed off the dust and chips of his life, will have left only the hard, clean questions: Was it good or was it evil? Have I done well—or ill?”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil and Adil dive into John Steinbeck's masterpiece, East of Eden. Following the lives of two families, the Trasks and the Hamiltons, this novel ultimately reflects on the timeless struggle between darkness and light within the human soul.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • The timeless battle between good and evil
    • Why having a fixed worldview can lead to hurt
    • Parallels between East of Eden and the story of Cain and Abel
    • A glimpse into what life was like at the start of the Great War
    • How parents' actions impact their children's lives

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode:

    Mentioned in the Show:

    Books Mentioned:

    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:00) Today, we're diving into John Steinbeck's East of Eden, a novel that stood as a pinnacle in Steinbeck's illustrious career. We kick off the episode by exploring Steinbeck's candidness as shown in his accompanying journal.

    (2:57) Nat, Neil, and Adil share their experience reading the book for the second time, each finding deeper connections to its major themes and characters this time around.

    (6:27) We draw parallels between East of Eden and The Three-Body Problem contrasting their narrative styles. While East of Eden is emotionally impactful with rich characters, The Three-Body Problem unfolds in a flatter, more plot-driven world. Check out our episode on The Three-Body Problem if you haven't already!

    (9:31) Discussing Steinbeck's immersive writing style, we explore how he vividly paints the environments and characters of the book, making us feel as though they are living within its pages.

    (13:43) We delve into the characters of the novel, particularly Cathy, and how she shaped the narrative. Cathy doesn't always see the good, and often fails to take reponsibility for the things that happen to her. 

    (16:04) The book follows two main families, the Trasks and the Hamiltons. There is a major parallel of "two sons" as Adam has two sons, Steinbeck has two sons, and Cain and Abel are two sons. 

    (21:06) It wasn't the plot that drew us into the book, but rather the characters, and how they demonstrate the lessons taught in the novel. One of those lessons is the power of choice, and how you must take responsibility for your choices. 

    (26:31) Listen in as we read an excerpt from Chapter 34 on the topic of good vs. evil, and how humans are caught in their lives, thoughts, ambitions. “Have I done well or ill?” 

    (34:07) Adam has two sons, Aron and Caleb. Though theoretically, could Caleb be Charles’ son? We talk about the similarities between Charles and Caleb, and Adam and Aron. 

    (37:38) Examining the allegory of Cain and Abel within the novel, we discuss how Steinbeck portrays the struggle between good and evil. Steinbeck presents a compelling argument for the power of choice, demonstrating that no matter how many times you choose evil, you always have the power to choose good. It's your reponsibility to make that choice.

    (41:08) Nat, Neil, and Adil reflect on pivotal moments in the story, such as Cathy's final act of redemption and Caleb's sacrificial gesture for his father.

    (49:51) Lee's character, and how relatable he is. It's often the ones that are selflessly giving of themselves that are living the richest lives. 

    (53:31) There are many little instances of heartbreak throughout the book. East of Eden shows the clear impact that parents have on their kids, demonstrating that their actions have consequnces.

    (55:47) We talk about Adam and Charles' father, Cyrus, his interesting character, and more about the parallels in the book between the families and generations. 

    (1:02:46) The movie based off of East of Eden that came out in the 1950s and our thoughts on the Three-Body Problem TV series.

    (1:06:38) Books that turn into shows or movies can be very hit or miss. Neil gives an example of a show based on a book that didn’t live up to his expectation. 

    (1:10:14) How much input does an author have over a movie or TV series based on their book? We talk about the Harry Potter movie series, and how the wardrobe, casting, and scenery evolved throughout the series. 

    (1:14:12) East of Eden serves not only as a compelling narrative, but also as a historical reflection of its time. From the impact of World War II to discussions on ice factories, Steinbeck weaves societal issues into the fabric of the story.

    (1:19:07) Because we polluted the land and water so much, milk pasteurization became very common.

    (1:22:18) Squatters rights, bankruptcy laws, and seeking asylum at the border. How does social media affect the visibility and knowledge on these topics?

    (1:25:37) When you have a very fixed view on what the world should look like, it opens the door for that to be shattered down the line. Steinbeck made the point that you really should be more realistic about how you see the world.

    (1:33:11) Steinbeck had a novel that flew under the radar around the time of WW2 where people had to distribute unauthorized copies throughout Europe. Plus, was Steinbeck an asset to the CIA during his time in Europe? 

    (1:36:32) It's possible that Cathy's character was based on Steinbeck's ex-wife, which adds more power and meaning behind the family dynamic in the story. 

    (1:39:54) Within the novel are moments of clarity, both sad and joyful. It reminds us that we all have those moments where it feels like we’re waking up from something. 

    (1:43:05) We read an excerpt about Steinbeck’s ex-wife who was the mother to his two boys. Was Cathy's character based on her, and could that be why we see so many parallels between the book and Steinbeck's life? 

    (1:50:53) Nat, Neil, and Adil read off some of their favorite lines from the book! Do you have any favorite Steinbeck lines? Send them to us!

    (1:59:58) That wraps up this episode! Next on the Made You Think Podcast, we'll be reading Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier. Also, make sure to check out our new instagram page- @madeyouthinkpodcast! Give us a follow to stay up-to-date with what's to come on the show.

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    2 April 2024, 10:42 pm
  • 1 hour 20 minutes
    111: Logicomix: An Epic Search for Truth

    "All the facts of science aren't enough to understand the world's meaning. For this, you must step outside the world."

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're adventuring into the world of Logicomix, a graphic novel that takes us on a journey through the intricate life of mathematician Bertrand Russell. From the quest for precision that borders on madness to the historical events Russell was embroiled in, we'll explore the complexities of logic, philosophy, and mathematics.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • Why seeking precision in understanding the world can drive one mad
    • Bertrand Russell's historical involvements and achievements
    • The rapid progress of aviation and technology
    • How mathematics, logic, and philosophy remain connected
    • Discovering the lives and contributions of various mathematicians

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode:

    Mentioned in the Show:

    Books Mentioned:

    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:00) We kick off the episode by sharing John Steinbeck's journal writing process for East of Eden, his collaborative relationship with his publisher, and how he landed on the title. 

    (5:25) Though we are not talking about East of Eden today (but...stay tuned for that episode up next!), we're covering Logicomix, a graphic novel by Apostolos Doxiadis and Christos Papadimitriou.

    (8:16) We give an overview of the book and how it shares different intricacies and stories from Bertrand Russell's life. From his parents being in a throuple to schizophrenia running in his family, we try to decipher which parts were real vs. fabricated.

    (10:36) Why you shouldn't necessarily look for precision and formal rules about how the world works. We tie this idea into Taoism which we’ve seen commonly in a few of our other recent reads. In short, no system can fully explain itself. You need to step outside of it.

    (13:42) Is it possible to build a perfect map of everything that mathematics entails? We talk about the connection between logic, philosophy, and mathematics. 

    (20:25) There were several mathematicians in the book. How many of them are you familiar with?

    (23:36) Russell's involvement in a variety of historical events from the Cuban Missile Crisis to JFK's assassination, as he was not convinced that Oswald was guilty of the crime. 

    (28:34) If you've been up-to-date with the news lately, you may be just as interested in the Kate Middleton conspiracies as we are. Tangent time!

    (31:38) Russell was sat in the House of Lords, a chamber of UK Parliament which is generally not up for election. Plus, we brainstorm some ideas of who would be considered Bertrand Russell’s equivalent in the US.

    (36:48) We dive in to some different historical events and wars. The Ottoman Empire, World War 1 and 2, the Persian Gulf War, and how warfare and aircraft carriers changed during these ages. 

    (41:26) Aviation and its rapid improvements in technology in such a short span of time.

    (45:07) "Shouldn't we get back to the book?" Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss some of the main concepts from the book, including the pursuit of truth in the world of mathematics. You're never going to fully understand reality, but for some, that's a hard truth that they don't want to accept.

    (49:44) What does it mean to know, and how can you be justified in knowing something? Remember, a belief can be true while at the same time not satisfying the conditions of logic. 

    (56:05) Unlike the other mathematicians discussed in the book, Gödel constructed a proof to his theorem that hasn’t yet been disproven. Regardless of whether their desires for absolute truth was achieved or not, a lot of the findings are fundamentally useful in many other ways.

    (1:00:34) We talk about some of the books that we have coming up on the podcast, and throw around some ideas. Which book would you like to see us do an episode on? Let us know here!

    (1:05:04) Is it true that the more you think about how you’re feeling, the worse you feel? 

    (1:10:07) Nat, Neil, and Adil share some more of their upcoming reads they're excited about, and different war books, including Martin Gilbert's books on WW1 and WW2.

    (1:13:24) Political ETFs that you can buy into. $NANC and $KRUZ, anyone?

    (1:17:22) That concludes this episode! Next up on Made You Think, we have the long awaited episode covering East of Eden by John Steinbeck. Make sure to grab a copy of the book and read along with us before the next episode. Check out our new website to stay updated on what's to come.

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    20 March 2024, 9:31 pm
  • 1 hour 12 seconds
    110: Fear of Oozification

    "Oozification is the process of recursively replacing systems based on numerous larger building blocks, governed by many rules, with ones based on fewer, smaller building blocks, governed by fewer rules, thereby increasing the number of evolutionary possibilities and lowering the number of evolutionary certainties."

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're discussing Fear of Oozification, an article by Venkatesh Rao. Get ready to explore the concept of ooziness in technology, learn the signs of oozification, and uncover why the ooze should (or should not) be feared.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • How oozification applies in technology, nature, and more
    • The contrast between progressification and oozification
    • Challenges in preserving our knowledge over time
    • Humans' natural fear of unpredictability and uncertainty
    • Why authority and trust may be victims of oozification

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode:

    Mentioned in the Show:

    Books Mentioned:

    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:00) Welcome back to Made You Think! We kick off this episode by sharing our reading progress for the upcoming books on the podcast as well as anything else we’re reading (or re-reading) outside of it.

    (5:32) Nat notes his experience with re-reading The Three-Body Problem series, the different pacing of each of the books, and other minor details that stuck out while going through it a second time.

    (6:43) Today, we're covering Fear of Oozification, an article by Venkatesh Rao. Nat, Neil, and Adil dive into the author's definition of oozification, and more specifically, how it applies within certain technologies such as the computer and phone.

    (10:52) What makes something more or less oozy? We think of the ooziness of nature where we frequently envision stable environments such as a forest or meadow. However, when a major change or catastrophe takes place, the landscape has to evolve and its trajectory changes.

    (14:36) Progressification vs oozification: In contrast to oozing, you can make steady and predictable progress within technology, for example.

    (16:50) We share our main takeaways from the article, debate what the author's view on oozification is, and how the author got his argument across. 

    (23:18) How oozification will happen regardless of the natural linear progression that we're on in the world of technology. As we progress and create new technologies, each new piece of tech will ooze in its own way.

    (26:27) Naturally, we fear the unpredictability of the future. What is it about oozification that we are more fearful of than just the unpredictability of the future? Plus, the new era of the internet vs. how things used to be in the world of blogging and social media.

    (31:43) Decentering and simplifying. We talk a bit about an individual health blog written in just plain text. Check it out here if you're curious!

    (37:39) Trust and authority, and how that links in with oozification. Nowadays, it's nearly easier to verify truth and accuracy in individuals rather than in large accredited institutions.

    (41:06) When something is oozed so far away from the fundamental state that we won’t know how to recreate the original anymore. Plus, what really is the best way to transmit human knowledge?

    (46:07) How memories have traditionally been stored through photographs, both digital and physical, and what the future of storing our memories and artifacts may eventually look like.

    (51:37) We chat a bit about some of Rao's other articles, discuss the contrast in the way that technology and government oozifies, and provide our final thoughts of the article.

    (55:46) In true Made You Think fashion, we ask ChatGPT for its take on the article!

    (57:45) That wraps up this episode! Next up, we'll be reading Logicomix followed by East of Eden. Make sure to grab a copy of those books and read along with us. Head on over to our new website to see what's next, listen to previous episodes, and send any book suggestions our way!

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    24 February 2024, 1:21 pm
  • 1 hour 24 minutes
    109: The Pursuit of Intelligence: Flowers for Algernon

    “I don’t know what’s worse: to not know what you are and be happy, or to become what you’ve always wanted to be, and feel alone.”

    Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! Today, we're delving into Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes. Join us as we take you through the journey of an intellectually disabled man who undergoes a procedure with the hopes of increasing his mental abilities. We'll unpack several themes that resonate deeply with the human experience, and seek to get our questions answered on what it truly means to be intelligent.

    We cover a wide range of topics including:

    • The relationship between intelligence and loneliness
    • Whether the experiment actually made Charlie worse off
    • Influence of social norms and media on individual beliefs and behaviors
    • The existence (or lack of) internal dialogues
    • How handicapped people are often viewed and treated

    And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

    Links from the Episode:

    Mentioned in the Show:

    Books Mentioned:

    People Mentioned:

    Show Topics:

    (0:00) We open the show by talking about new hardware innovations on the horizon from Apple’s Vision Pro to the pocket-sized Rabbit. 

    (3:23) As it's become increasingly easier to make software, what will this mean for SaaS companies and the future of software?

    (6:18) Today we’re talking about Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes. The book takes us on the journey of a severely handicapped man who enters into an experiment in order to increase his intelligence. There will be spoilers so if you're planning on reading the book, we suggest you do that before listening to this episode!

    (12:28) Through Charlie's progression and regression, we get a glimpse into his levels of intelligence, awareness, and loneliness. He finds himself lonelier the more intelligent he becomes because as he gains more awareness, he learns that some people aren't truly his friends.

    (13:21) There seems to be a human desire to improve no matter what. Nat, Neil, and Adil debate whether Charlie was better or worse off in the end than he was at the start of his journey.

    (18:35) We discuss some of the other characters in the story and what their relationship with Charlie is like. Notably, Alice is one of the only people who saw him as a person throughout his whole life, even before he gained his intelligence. 

    (22:00) Charlie's family life and how the author wrote each of their closures with Charlie, or lack thereof. 

    (25:12) Despite Alice being a very positive figure in Charlie’s life, you could make the argument that he didn't treat her very well. Regardless, Alice kept her hope and optimism in every situation.

    (28:18) Though the book is classified as science fiction, it also poses instances of moral philosophy. Showcased by the author were examples of how people with mental or physical disabilities are treated by others, both obviously and subtly. 

    (32:52) One of the symbols in the story was a window that Charlie would watch the world through. It was a way for him to interpret his disconnection from society. Throughout the story, Charlie makes progress once he acknowledges himself and his past rather than running and hiding from it. 

    (36:54) The progression of Charlie's intelligence vs. his emotional intelligence and how they changed at different rates. Plus, we talk about the role of the researchers and how he treated them.

    (40:02) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about their interpretation of one of the earlier scenes in the book. In the background was some type of educational tape played for Charlie, but it could have also been symbolized to be his internal monologue.

    (41:40) Does everyone have an internal dialogue? We dig into a tangent of internal dialogue and why it may be that not everyone has one.

    (50:13) We break down the different versions of Charlie throughout his life and how his character changed throughout the story.

    (53:20) Recalling the Texas shooter from the 1960's who was found to have a brain tumor. This brings up many moral dilemmas as to whether someone like him should be allowed to walk after having the brain tumor removed.

    (56:02) Similarly, what is the tipping point for something small to snowball into a very dangerous idea? We continue with a discussion on the role of social norms and social media. You can live very close proximally to someone but be engaged in completely different social worlds. It's all about who you choose to follow and what types of content you engage with.

    (1:03:03) Where should the line be drawn in giving punishments to someone who has some type of illness in their brain, such as a brain tumor or lead poisoning? Let us know what you think!

    (1:09:13) Adil shares his experience with re-reading the book as well as ChatGPT's take on Charlie's sessions with his psychiatrist.

    (1:13:36) We talk about the author’s writing career, including one of the other pieces that he has written. In fact, Apple TV came out with a mini-series based on one of his books! 

    (1:18:46) That wraps up this episode! We've got an exciting lineup for our next few episodes, beginning with Venkatesh Rao's essay, Fear of Oozification. Down the line, we'll also be covering Logicomix and re-reading East of Eden. Stay tuned and read along with us. You will not want to miss these!

    If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

    You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

    Thanks for listening. See you next time!

    13 February 2024, 10:46 pm
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