In today’s episode, Ruth and guests Rev. Dr. Prince Rivers and Rev. Dr. David Hughes navigate the depths of the future of Christian spirituality through the lenses of the atonement. The discussion confronts traditional interpretations of the cross and atonement, addressing challenges posed by modern perspectives. Ruth, Prince, and David explore theories from historical and contemporary theologians, such as penal substitution, while highlighting how these interpretations impact real-life contexts, especially among marginalized communities and the oppressed. The conversation concludes with reflections on faith, suffering, and power, emphasizing transformation through love over wrath, with a heartfelt prayer for divine guidance and liberation.

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

PRINCE RIVERS is senior pastor of Union Baptist Church in Durham, N.C. He has been a participant in the Pastor-Theologian Program at the Center of Theological Inquiry in Princeton, N.J., and has a B.A. in psychology from Morehouse College and an M.Div. from Duke Divinity School and currently serves as consulting faculty at Duke Divinity School.

DAVID HUGHES served as a pastor for 37+ years. In 2013, after attending and serving in several Transforming Community experiences, he became the Executive Director of the Transforming Center, where he served for a number of years. Currently, he serves as the part-time Ambassador of the TC. He is married to Joani, and they have three adult children, and two grandchildren. His passion is to accompany church leaders and congregations in their journey to be spiritually formed and transformed in this most challenging era of the Christian church.

Mentioned in this episode:

The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone

Invitation to a Journey by Robert Muholland

The Deeper Journey by Robert Muholland

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Yesterday Today Forever from Music in Solitude

Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

In this episode, Ruth delves into the future of Christian spirituality as it pertains to the role of justice. Joined by her long-time friend and expert in reconciliation studies, Dr. Brenda Salter McNeil, the discussion centers on the growing movement of the Holy Spirit towards deeper justice work, specifically racial justice. Dr. McNeil discusses her new book 'Empowered to Repair', which explores the biblical figure Nehemiah as a model for reparative actions that go beyond the warm fuzziness of relational reconciliation to concrete outcomes that reflect true justice. The conversation also addresses resistance within Christian communities towards reparations and repair, exploring how faith and a scarcity mentality influence these defenses. Ruth and Brenda call for activating all believers as ministers of reconciliation, underscoring the importance of integrating justice work with spirituality for the church to remain relevant, especially among younger generations.

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

Brenda Salter McNeil is a gifted teacher, preacher and a leader in the international movement for peace and reconciliation.  Her mission is to inspire, equip and empower emerging Christian leaders to be practitioners of reconciliation in their various spheres of influence. She is an Associate Professor of reconciliation studies in the School of Theology at Seattle Pacific University, where she also directs the Reconciliation Studies program. She also serves on the pastoral staff of Quest Church in Seattle, WA. Dr. Brenda is recognized internationally as one of the foremost leaders of reconciliation and was featured as one of the 50 most influential women to watch by Christianity Today. She is the author of a number of books, including Becoming Brave: Finding the Courage to Pursue Racial Justice Now and Empowered to Repair: Becoming People who Mend Broken Systems and Heal our Communities. 

Mentioned in this episode:

Empowered to Repair by Brenda Salter McNeil

Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership by Ruth Haley Barton

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Prayer for Healing from Music in Solitude

Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

What does it mean to be welcoming and inclusive from a rooted depth, and how do we see the Holy Spirit nudging us towards this concept? Ruth is joined by a special guest, Transforming Center’s very own cultivator of community and connection, Tina Harris, today to discuss the many ways we are called to practice hospitality in the name of Christ. Tina shares her own transformative experiences practicing radical hospitality, what it has felt like to not be welcomed, and practical and concrete ways churches can begin to become more welcoming and inclusive of all types of people. They also discuss why they think there is a resistance to this invitation and lament the ways that beautiful words and ideas like diversity, equity, and inclusion have become politicized, hot button issues.

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

Tina Harris is ordained in the United Methodist Church and holds a Master of Divinity from St. Paul School of Theology. She has served the church in a variety of roles, including Lead Pastor and Director of Mission, Service and Justice Ministries in the Missouri Conference of the United Methodist Church. Tina is passionate about community engagement and has served and/or actively supported several civic organizations and ministries. As an attorney and diversity leader, a common thread in her work is to gather individuals into communities, challenge comfort zones and invite those whom society has overlooked to take their place at the table.

Mentioned in this episode:

Soul Feast by Marjorie J. Thompson

Contemporary Icons from Kelly Latimore (we discussed Madonna and Child, Mama, and The Trinity)

Origin Movie

Making Room:  Recovering Hospitality as a Christian Tradition by Christine Pohl

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Tender Moment from Music in Solitude

Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

We cannot ignore the current state of our politics and the toll it has taken on the American public. As we approach another election season we wanted to provide you with encouragement and guidance on how we connect our spirituality and our politics. Guest Michael Wear joins Ruth to discuss why he believes the state of our politics is indicative to the state of our souls. Ruth and Michael also discuss how important it is to bring our own formation to our politics,  how politics can be an essential form in which to love our neighbors and why we need to avoid the false bifurcation of our spiritual lives and our political lives.

Michael Wear is founder, president, and CEO of the Center for Christianity and Public Life, a nonpartisan, nonprofit institution based in the nation's capital with the mission to contend for the credibility of Christian resources in public life, for the public good. He has served as a trusted resource and advisor for a range of civic leaders on matters of faith and public life for the last fifteen years, including as a White House and presidential campaign staffer. Wear previously led Public Square Strategies, a consulting firm he founded that helps religious organizations, political organizations, businesses and others effectively navigate the rapidly changing American religious and political landscape. He is the author of "The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life," which argues that the kind of people we are has much to do with the kind of politics and public life we will have. 

Mentioned in this episode:

The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life by Michael Wear

Reclaiming Hope: Lessons Learned in the Obama White House by Michael Wear

The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard

The Case for Self Forgetfulness by Tim Keller

Unoffendable by Brant Hansen

Invitation to a Journey by Robert Mulholland

Life Together by Dedrich Bonehoffer

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

No Matter What from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

Is the Holy Spirit moving us towards a spirituality that is practice-based and practice-oriented rather than faith-based and belief-oriented? This week, Ruth and Fr. Michael Sparough sit down to discuss this question and their own experiences with a practice-based spirituality. Fr. Michael shares the ecumenical spiritual practices that have been the most transformative and the power he finds in praying and acting together across different faith traditions. They also discuss the ways in which a belief-oriented faith leaves us feeling responsible to defend the faith and God above all else.

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

Fr. J. Michael Sparough, SJ, is a retreat director, storyteller, itinerant preacher, poet, and spiritual director at the Bellarmine Jesuit Retreat House in Barrington.  He is also the President of Heart to Heart: A Catholic Media Ministry.  He holds an MFA from the Yale School of Drama and a Doctor of Ministry from St Mary of the Lake in Mundelein, IL.  A prolific writer and speaker, Fr. Michael has published extensively on prayer. His latest co-authored book is What’s Your Decision?  An Ignatian Approach to Decision Making  and is published by Loyola Press.  Each week he sends out a weekly video homily that can be seen on-line at: HtoH.US

Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Dusk from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

How is the Holy Spirit leading us to engage with scripture in new and fresh ways? That’s what Ruth and guest Esau McCaulley discuss this week. Esau shares about his work editing The New Testament in Color: A Multi-Ethnic Commentary on the New Testament. They discuss how we need each other, reading and interpreting across all kinds of different cultures and contexts in order to best discern the mind of Christ, how differently we can view a biblical story depending on which character’s shoes we put ourselves in, and the importance of relinquishing control when it comes to a broader reading of scripture.

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

Esau McCaulley, PhD, is an author and The Jonathan Blanchard Associate Professor of New Testament and Public Theology at Wheaton College. His writing and speaking focus on New Testament Exegesis, African American Biblical Interpretation, and Public Theology. He has authored numerous books including, Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope. Esau also served as the editor of New Testament in Color: A Multi-Ethnic Commentary on the New Testament. On the popular level, Esau’s recent memoir, How Far to the Promised Land, was named by Amazon as a top five non-fiction book of 2023. He has also penned works for children, including Josey Johnson’s Hair and the Holy Spirit and Andy Johnson and the March for Justice. Esau is a contributing opinion writer for the New York Times, and senior editor for Holy Post Media as well as the host of a new podcast with the Holy Post that debuts this fall. 

Mentioned in this episode:

Reading While Black by Esau McCaulley

Josie Johnson’s Hair and the Holy Spirit by Esau McCaulley

Andy Johnson and the March for Justice by Esau McCaulley

The New Testament in Color edited by Esau McCaulley, Janette H. Ok, Osvaldo Padilla and Amy Peeler

How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley

The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Innocence from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

If a greater understanding and awareness of our own desires is part of the future of Christian spirituality, then today’s topic, spiritual direction, is a necessary companion in that journey of discovery. In this episode, Ruth shares some of her thoughts on what spiritual direction is and is not, why she thinks it is an important part of the future of Christian spirituality, and some of her own personal experience as a director and a directee. Then she shares a conversation with Transforming Center friend and alumn, Reverend Dr. David Hughes, about his experience as a high-level pastor and leader who found himself with a surprising invitation to spiritual direction. David shares about how strange and even uncomfortable the practice was initially and why he thinks it’s especially important for men to enter into spiritual direction.

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Chasing Butterflies from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

The future of Christian spirituality will be propelled by a greater understanding and respect for the role of desire and desperation in the spiritual life. That is Ruth’s belief and our topic du jour. And to tackle a topic this important and encompassing, we needed two guests! Father Ron Rolheiser returns to discuss how the concept of desire has been misunderstood and even feared, the importance of desire in the spiritual life, and guidance for living with these complex dynamics within ourselves.

Then, Tiffany Childress Price joins Ruth to discuss how her journey with desire took her from her life as a teacher on the west side of Chicago to becoming a summertime farmhand on an urban farm. She also shares the healing that came along the way and how attending to and following her deepest desires has impacted her parenting and made her a more loving and merciful person. 

This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

Ronald Rolheiser is a Roman Catholic priest and member of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. He is President Emeritus of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas, and a Professor of Spirituality there. He is a community builder, lecturer, and writer. Along with his academic knowledge in systematic theology and philosophy, he has become a popular speaker in the areas of contemporary spirituality, religion, and secularity.

Tiffany Childress Price is in her 18th year as a public school teacher and serves in Chicago Public Schools as an instructional coach. Tiffany is married to Bobby and they have three sons: Elah, Solomon and Elias, and their beloved Bull Terrier, Circle. They make their home in the Greater Lawndale community on the West side of Chicago and enjoy hiking, cycling, road tripping, and taking Amtrak trips to new places.

Mentioned in this episode:

The Holy Longing by Ron Rolheiser 

The Confessions of St. Augustine by St. Augustine of Hippo

Befriending our Desires by Philip Sheldrake

The Last Temptation of Christ by Nikos Kazantzakis

Before the Living God by Ruth Burrows

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Dusk from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

Welcome to season 24! This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.

In this episode, Ruth sits down with Father Ron Rolheiser. This topic for this season was born out of an invitation from Ron to Ruth in 2019. Ruth was invited to speak at a conference honoring Ron’s time at the Oblate School. The conference theme was the future of Christian spirituality. This idea has captivated Ruth, and she has been thinking and writing about it ever since. In today’s episode, Ruth and Father Ron discuss their thoughts on the future broadly. They discuss theology vs. spirituality, how going deeper into our own denominations brings us toward unity, and how God is like a GPS that never tires. The two close with their thoughts on how the future of Christian spirituality is Christocentric and what that looks like in practice. 

Did the audio quality make it difficult to hear episode 1? You were not alone. Ronald Rolheiser’s audio quality was not great and yet what he said was worth the extra effort. We have transcribed the episode in the hopes it  would help you digest this great content. Find the transcript HERE.

Ronald Rolheiser is a Roman Catholic priest and member of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. He is President Emeritus of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas, and a Professor of Spirituality there. He is a community builder, lecturer, and writer. Along with his academic knowledge in systematic theology and philosophy, he has become a popular speaker in the areas of contemporary spirituality, religion, and secularity.

Mentioned in this episode:

Our Secular Age by Charles Taylor

The Holy Longing by Ronald Rolheiser

Befriending our Desires by Philip Sheldrake

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Tender Moment from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

Finally, we’ve arrived at the head center! Ruth and Erin will discuss the 5s, 6s, and 7s of this triad and their special relationship to fear. Erin and Ruth cover all the aspects we’ve been discussing this season as they apply to the head center: the instincts and their impact on the numbers, what unique challenges and transformation opportunities exist in this triad, and how to love our 5s, 6s, and 7s well. Ruth also asks Erin some broader enneagram questions about wings and arrows (and you’ll hear producer Colleen chime in with some clarifying questions here) and what spirituality she applies to the enneagram. Erin also briefly gives us an overview of a few enneagram theories, including the rules of 1, 3, and 7. Over on Patreon, Erin continues to share journal prompts for 5s, 6s, and 7s as well as guidance specific to the unique challenges for head center folks as they work through those questions. Additionally, she elaborates on those enneagram theories that we could only briefly touch on in the episode.

This season we are using the framework of the enneagram, and in particular the ways the 3 instinctual subtypes impact each enneagram number, to help people do the necessary inner work of knowing themselves and managing anxiety, triggers, and stuck patterns so that they can lead others well. This season, we are moving beyond the basics of describing each number type to look at our instincts and what motivates our behaviors. Special guest Erin Baute, a leadership behavior strategist with over 20 years of experience in behavior change and professional development, joins us all season long to help us do this important work.

Erin Baute is a professional business coach and leadership behavior strategist with over 20 years of experience in behavior change and professional development, working with individuals and teams. She has a bachelor’s degree in Human Development, a Master of Public Health and a PhD in Organizational Psychology, with a focus on personal and professional development using personality as a framework underway. She has been studying and using Enneagram for 14 years and is a Certified Enneagram Teacher and Trainer and an Accredited Enneagram Professional from the International Enneagram Association (IEA). You can find more information about Erin on her website, https://livingtheenneagram.com/, or follow her on Instagram, @livingtheenneagram!

Helpful Enneagram Resources:

We are diving straight into the deep end of the enneagram this season. If you need some introductory resources to the Enneagram, we highly recommend the following:

Self to Lose, Self to Find by Marilyn Vancil

The Road Back To You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Cron

The Story of You by Ian Cron

The Enneagram for Black Liberation by Chichi Agorom

The Enneagram A Christian Perspective by Richard Rohr

Support the Transforming Center! Right now you can double the impact of your gift through a $25,000 challenge gift from an alum. Donate today and receive our Good Things ‘zine!

Join our Patreon Book Club this summer! Patrons at all levels will have the opportunity to read and discuss Ashlee Eiland’s newest book, Say Good: Speaking Across Hot Topics, Complex Relationships, and Tense Situations. We will meet twice over Zoom, once in July and once in August (with special guest, author Ashlee Eiland! ), to dialogue about the book and our own experiences speaking across difficult topics and conversations. Visit our Patreon page for more information and to sign up today!

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

Anthem from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive weekly bonus episodes that will help take these conversations deeper. We have journal prompts for each of the 9 numbers, guidance from Erin on how to determine your instinct or subtype, and more! Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links

It’s time for the heart center numbers! Ruth and Erin will discuss the 2s, 3s, and 4s of this triad and their special relationship to connection and disconnection. Erin breaks down each of these numbers and how their instincts impact them. They talk about the challenges our broken and often violent world presents for those in this feelings-centered triad, as well as the unique ways the world needs their heart more than ever. Over on Patreon, Erin continues to share journal prompts for 2s, 3s, and 4s as well as guidance specific to the unique challenges for heart center folks as they work through those questions.

This season we are using the framework of the enneagram, and in particular the ways the 3 instinctual subtypes impact each enneagram number, to help people do the necessary inner work of knowing themselves and managing anxiety, triggers, and stuck patterns so that they can lead others well. This season, we are moving beyond the basics of describing each number type to look at our instincts and what motivates our behaviors. Special guest Erin Baute, a leadership behavior strategist with over 20 years of experience in behavior change and professional development, joins us all season long to help us do this important work.

Erin Baute is a professional business coach and leadership behavior strategist with over 20 years of experience in behavior change and professional development, working with individuals and teams. She has a bachelor’s degree in Human Development, a Master of Public Health and a PhD in Organizational Psychology, with a focus on personal and professional development using personality as a framework underway. She has been studying and using Enneagram for 14 years and is a Certified Enneagram Teacher and Trainer and an Accredited Enneagram Professional from the International Enneagram Association (IEA). You can find more information about Erin on her website, https://livingtheenneagram.com/, or follow her on Instagram, @livingtheenneagram!

Helpful Enneagram Resources:

We are diving straight into the deep end of the enneagram this season. If you need some introductory resources to the Enneagram, we highly recommend the following:

Self to Lose, Self to Find by Marilyn Vancil

The Road Back To You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Cron

The Story of You by Ian Cron

The Enneagram for Black Liberation by Chichi Agorom

The Enneagram A Christian Perspective by Richard Rohr

Join our Patreon Book Club this summer! Patrons at all levels will have the opportunity to read and discuss Ashlee Eiland’s newest book, Say Good: Speaking Across Hot Topics, Complex Relationships, and Tense Situations. We will meet twice over Zoom, once in July and once in August (with special guest, author Ashlee Eiland! ), to dialogue about the book and our own experiences speaking across difficult topics and conversations. Visit our Patreon page for more information and to sign up today!

Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist

No Matter What from Music in Solitude

Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive weekly bonus episodes that will help take these conversations deeper. We have journal prompts for each of the 9 numbers, guidance from Erin on how to determine your instinct or subtype, and more! Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!  

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.

*this post contains affiliate links