In the years since my 2020 episode Fantasy and Fascism, I knew that I had to make a follow-up episode. The political landscape was changing in ways I didn’t expect while major sci-fi fantasy franchises were reflecting those anxieties. Last time, I focused on how SFF worlds depicted fascism. This time, I wanted to look at the other half of the equation -- why people lose faith in democracy. I interviewed Trinity College Dublin professor David Kenny about his paper on the lessons we can learn from the collapse of the old Republic in Star Wars. I also talked with historian and podcaster Stefan Sasse, and teacher and writer Shawn Taylor about why the New Republic made the same mistakes, and all new ones. Plus, we look at what it takes to maintain democracy in the latest Star Trek shows, and X-Men ’97. Spoilers included.

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Who really composed the scores of Dune, Interstellar, Blade Runner 2049, The Dark Knight, Man of Steel, Pirates of the Caribbean and The Lion King? Were they all written by Hans Zimmer? Or were those scores put together by a team of musicians at Hans Zimmer’s studio Remote Control? The podcast Twenty Thousand Hertz went behind-the-scenes and got a rare glimpse at the creative process of one of the most revered film composers in the world. Plus, I talk with Dallas Taylor, the host of 20K Hertz, about why visiting Hans Zimmer’s studio was almost like a religious experience for him.

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The hottest trend in fantasy novels – in fact the hottest trend in publishing overall – is fantasy romance or romantasy. These stories take place in worlds with dragons, faeries, vampires and werewolves but the driving plot is romance with a guaranteed happy ending. For many fans of traditional fantasy novels, the fact that romantasy exists may be surprising news. But romantasy is a cultural and economic juggernaut. Dartmouth professor Marcela di Blasi and cultural critic Kayleigh Donaldson explain where romantasy came from and how it became so popular. Fantasy authors C.L. Polk, and J.D. Evans talk about why they came to romantasy and how fans have had to create their own spaces. And Katherine Zofrea gives me a tour of The Ripped Bodice, a romance bookstore with an ample fantasy section. Plus, we hear readings by actress Tanya Rich.

In the episode, we heard about some of the most famous romantasy authors like Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Professor Marcela di Blasi is working on a non-fiction book about BIPOC romantasy authors, and she also recommends these books.

• Anna Marie McLemore’s When The Moon Was Ours
• Zoraida Cordova's Hollow Crown Duology
• Analeigh Sbrana's Lore of the Wilds
• Kimberly Lemming's That Time I Got Drunk and Saved a Demon
• Sabaa Tahir's An Ember in the Ashes series
• Gabriela Romero LaCruz's The Sun and the Void
• Mikayla D. Hornedo's Blood and Brujas
• Claire Legrand’s Lightbringer trilogy.

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Book banning is hitting libraries across America, and many of the titles being banned or challenged are fantasy books or graphic novels – especially LGBTQ content. Malinda Lo has been tracking how her work is being targeted, like her novel Ash which is a queer reimagining of Cinderella. I talk with Malinda about how she’s been tracking the attacks on her work and fighting back. Plus, we hear a version of my 2018 episode Fahrenheit 451 Still Burns featuring Neil Gaiman, whose work is currently banned in several states. 

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Did you know that in retirement, George Lucas decided to host a live talk show with his sidekick Watto? That’s the conceit of The George Lucas Talk Show starring Connor Ratliff (from the podcast Dead Eyes) as Lucas, and Griffin Newman (from The Tick) playing the alien character Watto. They’ve had famous guests on the show, including people who know Lucas in real life. The guests have to pretend that Connor is George. Over the past 10 years, the show had grown into a cult phenomenon to the point where there’s now a documentary about it called, I’m “George Lucas”: A Connor Ratliff Story. Connor and I talk about why he’s fascinated with what defines success or failure, and how it’s become a theme in his work. We also discuss his new podcast Tiny Dinos, which is like a combination of Jurassic Park and The Tonight Show on a micro-scale.

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Over the past 40 years, Shigeru Miyamoto has been inventing the modern video game one pixel at a time. From Donkey Kong to Super Mario Bros to The Legend of Zelda, Miyamoto turned wonder and exploration into game mechanics, and incorporated his personal experiences into his games. I talk with Illinois Institute of Technology dean Jennifer deWinter and Oakland University professor Sam Srauy about how Miyamoto changed Nintendo, and where his influence can be seen in big budget and indie video games today.

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When Joe Dever died in 2016, he hadn’t written the last several books in his Lone Wolf series. The Lone Wolf books take place in a deeply rich fantasy universe, and they’re written as a combination of choose-your-own-adventure stories and role playing games like D&D. Joe’s final wish was that his son Ben would finish the series for him. However, Ben was unfamiliar with his father’s books, and the legions of Lone Wolf fans he would have to please. I talked with Ben Devere (who spells his last name differently) about the creative, practical, and personal struggles he went through as a writer, and how he was able to get to know his late father by immersing himself in his father’s fantasy world. Jonathan Stark, co-host of the official Lone Wolf podcast Journeys Through Magnamund, explains why Lone Wolf means so much to fans like him, and how he ended up fulfilling his own dreams of writing a Lone Wolf book.

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When the writer Nnedi Okorafor coined the term Africanfuturism, she wanted to distinguish sci-fi written about Africa from Afrofuturism, which is focuses on the experiences of Black people in the diaspora. Africanfuturism mixes the traditional with the futuristic in a way that resembles modern life in Africa, and many of these stories grapple with climate change. Although the writer Chinelo Onwualu says cli-fi isn’t a subgenre for African writers. It’s often baked into a lot of Africanfuturism because the continent is already at the forefront of climate emergencies. And the writers Suyi Davies Okungbowa and Wole Talabi explain that Africanfuturist cli-fi isn’t as dystopian as Western cli-fi. These visions of the future may feel daunting but there is often a sense of hope and the solutions are more community focused. The actress Nneka Okoye reads from their stories, and other works by African writers.

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Reading list from this episode:

• Works of Nnedi Okorafor
• Wole Talabi’s anthology Convergence Problems
• Suyi Davies Okungbowa's novella Lost Ark Dreaming
• Chinelo Onwualu’s short story Letters to My Mother
• Dilman Dila’s story The Leafy Man from the book A Killing in the Sun
• Mame Bougouma’s story Lekki Lekki from Africanfuturism: An Anthology
• Omenana Magazine

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Back in 2018, I interviewed language creator David J. Peterson about how he invented Dothraki for Game of Thrones and other fictional languages in fantasy worlds. David and his wife Jessie just finished a huge project – developing the Fremen language for Dune: Part Two. I talk with the couple about their creative process and the challenge of imagining simple English phrases in the Chakobsa language that Frank Herbert imagined in his Dune novels. We also hear my 2018 episode, “Do You Speak Conlang?” where I also talked with Marc Okrand, inventor of the Klingon language, and Robyn Stewart, a language consultant for Star Trek: Discovery. Plus, Jen Usellis -- a.k.a. Klingon Pop Warrior -- will give you a serious case of earworms (not the kind from Wrath of Khan.)

For more episodes about Dune, check out my 2017 episode The Book of Dune, where I talked with Muslim fans of the series about the way Frank Herbert incorporated aspects of Islam into the books. And in 2021, I did an episode called The Ecology of Dune where I looked at the environmental messages in the books and whether Frank Herbert’s environmental sensibilities still hold up today.

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The Wizard of Oz is deeply ingrained into our culture. While many people can practically recite the 1939 movie, the original source material isn’t as well known. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum was published in 1900. There are a lot of theories as to what inspired Baum – but the answer may be who rather than what. Baum’s mother-in-law Matilda Joslyn Gage was a groundbreaking writer and activist who could’ve been in every high school history textbook if she hadn’t had a falling out with the leaders of the suffrage movement. But her ideas live on in The Land of Oz. I talk with historian Sally Roesch Wagner and UNC-Charlotte professor Dina Massachi about the politics of gender in Gage’s works and Baum’s stories. And I talk with therapist Dr. Gita Dorothy Morena who has a very personal connection to the books.

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In the previous episode, I interviewed documentary filmmaker Isaac Elliot-Fisher about He-Man and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Isaac had so many great anecdotes about the history of those franchises that I couldn’t fit in. In this bonus episode of outtakes, Isaac explains the history of the term toyetic, the haphazard way He-Man came together, and why the 1990 live action TMNT film was so much darker than the cartoon show.

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