Eileen Collins: Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars

Colonel Eileen M. Collins, USAF (retired), earned a place in history as the first American woman to pilot, and later to command, a space mission. She flew on the space shuttle four times, twice as commander – including the 2005 “return to flight” mission after the tragic Columbia accident. She is the subject of the documentary movie Spacewoman and author of the book Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all have times in our careers where all eyes are on us. In this conversation, Eileen and I explore the critical moments of her career and how she stayed grounded while soaring among the stars.

Key Points

• Until we are tested, we don’t know what we are capable of.
• Nerves creep in at times for all of us. When they do, it’s helpful to think about representing your role instead of representing yourself.
• When decisions become difficult, always come back to, “What’s the mission?”
• Train for the skill, not for the task.
• During high-stakes times, remember your family and personal life. They will help you stay grounded.

Resources Mentioned

• Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission by Eileen Collins (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Spacewoman documentary, featuring Eileen Collins

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)
• The Way to Handle Q&A, with Matt Abrahams (episode 681)
• How to Start the Top Job, with Scott Keller (episode 752)

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Claude Silver: Be Yourself at Work

Claude Silver is on a mission to revolutionize leadership, talent, and workplace culture. She is Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX and partners with CEO Gary Vaynerchuk to drive their success. Claude has earned Campaign US’s Female Frontier Award, and AdWeek’s Changing the Game Award and she’s the author of Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all heard the advice to be ourselves at work. It’s easier said than done. In this conversation, Claude and I explore how we can actually move past some of the unhelpful self-talk so that we can show up better, faster.

Key Points

• We all have songs that play in our heads. When the song isn’t working, it’s time to change it.
• Labels are for soup cans, not people. Stop treating negative self-talk as gospel.
• Begin by identifying the label you’ve put on yourself that’s harming you. When it’s hard to see a harmful label, use times of either reflection or agitation to help surface it.
• Find the internal evidence for this label and record what confirms this belief and also what challenges it. If that’s hard, invite someone else (a partner, friend, or therapist) to help you see it more objectively.
• Evolve by creating a new mantra for who you are becoming. If it doesn’t seem doable today, ask yourself if you can envision it being true in the future.

Resources Mentioned

• Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart by Claude Silver (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232)
• How to Stand Up for Yourself, with Sunita Sah (episode 715)
• When It Feels Like You Don’t Belong, with Muriel Wilkins (episode 756)

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Dave shares the results of the 2025 listener survey and previews what’s next for Coaching for Leaders. If you’re not already getting the weekly update and wish to receive Dave’s forthcoming FocusFive messages, join the free membership for access.

Steve Blank: Blind to Disruption

Steve Blank is an Adjunct Professor at Stanford and co-founder of the Gordian Knot Center for National Security Innovation. Credited with launching the Lean Startup movement and the curriculums for the National Science Foundation Innovation Corps and Hacking for Defense and Diplomacy, he’s changed how startups are built, how entrepreneurship is taught, how science is commercialized, and how companies and the government innovate. Steve is the author of The Four Steps to the Epiphany and The Startup Owner’s Manual and is the author of his recent article at steveblank.com: Blind to Disruption: The CEOs Who Missed the Future.

Leaders may see the future coming, but we aren’t always incentivized to act on it. In this conversation, Steve and I discuss what we can learn from the common patterns of disruption so we don’t miss what’s next.

Key Points

• In the 1890s, there were approximately 4,000 carriage and wagon makers in the United States. Only one company made the transition to automobiles.
• In each of the three companies that survived, it was the founders, not hired CEOs, that drove the transition.
• Studebaker recognized that it wasn’t in the business of carriages; it was in the business of mobility.
• Clayton Christensen taught us that disruption begins with inferior products that incumbents don’t take seriously.
• The real problem isn’t that companies can’t see the future. It’s that they are structurally disincentivized to act on it.
• Parsing innovation theatre vs. innovation means paying attention to what’s actually shipping. If nothing is and you want to innovate, look elsewhere.
• Bubbles in the market are normal. Timing may be off, but that doesn’t mean disruption isn’t happening.

Resources Mentioned

• Blind to Disruption: The CEOs Who Missed the Future by Steve Blank

Related Episodes

• How to Start Seeing Around Corners, with Rita McGrath (episode 430)
• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)
• How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476)

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Shannon Minifie: Box of Crayons

Shannon Minifie is the CEO of Box of Crayons, a learning and development company that helps unleash the power of curiosity to create connected and engaged company cultures. They are the organization behind the bestselling book The Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier. Shannon and her team recently released a report along with the Harris Poll titled Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity increases engagement, trust, and productivity.

Of course, you’ve heard that being curious and coach-like will help in leadership. But sometimes the very thing we think we’re doing well is actually getting in the way. In this conversation, Shannon and I explore the kind of curiosity that leaders often miss.

Key Points

• 5-6 hours of the average workweek is lost to the fear of making mistakes.
• A strong majority of leaders say employees are expressing a desire for more feedback, and a majority also say that people are unable to receive hard feedback.
• Relationships are the core of these conflicting messages. Without a relationship of trust, helpful feedback often doesn’t land that way.
• Intellectual curiosity helps us learn what we don’t know. Relationship curiosity helps the other person learn what they don’t know.
• Ask yourself: what is my goal in asking this question?
• Rather than asking a question that starts with a “why,” consider asking a question that starts with a “what.”

The 7 Essential Questions:

1. What’s on your mind?
2. And what else?
3. What’s the real challenge here for you?
4. What do you want?
5. How can I help?
6. If you’re saying yes to this, what are you saying no to?
7. What was most useful for you?

Resources Mentioned

• Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity Increases Engagement, Trust, and Productivity.
• Interactive Learning Preview: Invest in the Power of Curiosity
• The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237)
• How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
• The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458)

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Ruchika T. Malhotra: Uncompete

Ruchika T. Malhotra is the founder of Candour, a global inclusion strategy firm that has worked with some of the world’s biggest organizations. She’s been recognized multiple times by Thinkers50 and co-wrote one of Harvard Business Review’s top 100 most-read articles in history: Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome. She is the author of Inclusion on Purpose, MIT Press’s top-selling book of 2022 and now her newest book, Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of people think about work as a competition for resources. But what if, by inviting others to the table, you created more for everyone? In this conversation, Ruchika and I explore the opportunity for all of us to uncompete.

Key Points

• Many of us are so socialized to compete that we don’t realize the benefits of collective collaboration.
• Reach out to someone who inspires you. Praising someone for something awesome about them, without an accompanying ask, is so rare.
• Display genuine curiosity. Don’t confuse “nice” small talk for depth. Ask bigger questions that get to the heart of who people are.
• As you build trust, talk numbers. In the professional context, real relationships of trust demand this kind of transparency.
• Take regular stock of relationships. Take people at their word and also watch how their actions line up – or don’t.
• Invite others to the table. The bigger your circle, the more you create for everybody.

Resources Mentioned

• Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success by Ruchika T. Malhotra (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• End Imposter Syndrome in Your Organization, with Jodi-Ann Burey (episode 556)
• How to Create Inclusive Hiring Practices, with Ruchika Tulshyan (episode 589)
• Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Kirstin Ferguson: Blindspotting

Kirstin Ferguson has been recognized globally by Thinkers50 as one of the top 50 management thinkers in the world and is the recipient of the 2023 Distinguished Leadership Award. She was an officer in the Royal Australian Air Force, and then went on to lead an international consulting firm as CEO, before serving on the boards of major publicly listed, private, and non-profit organizations. She is the author of Women Kind, Head & Heart, and her newest book Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

If we stop to think about it, almost all of us recognize that we have blind spots. Given that reality, anything we can do that helps us see what others might miss will help us lead better. In this conversation, Kirsten and I explore the mindsets and practices that will help us uncover more of our blind spots.

Key Points

• Experts are better at knowing when they are right, but also less likely to show appropriate doubt when they could be wrong.
• There’s a time to be a seeker and a time to be a knower. Both are important in different situations, but leaders in many situations would benefit from more seeking.
• Blindspotting is about calibration, not hesitation.
• Accept your intellectual limitations. A key way to do this is saying these four words more: “I don’t know yet.”
• Disentangling your ego will help your blind spot better. Shift away from your pride a bit by separating yourself from your knowledge and expertise.
• Hunt down your biases. Admitting they exist is step one. Model vulnerability by talking about your past mistakes both with yourself and with others.

Resources Mentioned

• Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss by Kirstin Ferguson (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Getting Better at Reading the Room, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 651)
• How to Find What’s Missing, with Jeff Wetzler (episode 732)
• How to Teach Your Expertise to Others, with Roger Kneebone (episode 743)

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Goldie Chan: Personal Branding for Introverts

Goldie Chan is the founder of Warm Robots, a social media strategy and creative agency, and she is herself a creative, keynote speaker, author, and cancer survivor. She was named the “Oprah of LinkedIn” by Huffington Post, and her creative video channel won LinkedIn Top Voice for Social Media. She is the author of Personal Branding for Introverts (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Many of us aspire to have a powerful personal brand, but it’s not always clear where to start. In this conversation, Goldie and I zero in on the five elements that matter most – and what you can do to get started.

Key Points

Five C’s of personal branding:

• Clarity: Surface it by determining three words you want to be associated with.
• Consistency: The internet is for introverts. Find the medium where you can show up often and that plays to your strengths.
• Competency: Rather than promoting yourself, promote the ideas and practices you stand for through your experience.
• Confidence: Ego is when you shout who you are to a room, and confidence is when you know who you are in a room.
• Community: Join in on conversations with people discussing what you care about. Find these communities or build your own.

Resources Mentioned

• Personal Branding for Introverts by Goldie Chan (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Four Critical Stories Leaders Need For Influence, with David Hutchens (episode 148)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)
• Your Reputation is Your Currency, with Maha Abouelenein (episode 703)

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Muriel Wilkins: Leadership Unblocked

Muriel Wilkins is the founder and CEO of Paravis Partners and a sought-after C-suite adviser and executive coach with a twenty-year track record of helping senior leaders take their performance to the next level. She is the coauthor of Own the Room and the host of the Harvard Business Review podcast Coaching Real Leaders. She’s just released her newest book, Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

You may have spent years aiming for the leadership role you now have. But now, once you’re in the job, it can be really disorienting to feel like you don’t belong. In this conversation, Muriel and I explore this reality that a lot of leaders face and what do when you run into it.

Key Points

• Feeling like you don’t belong is a normal and common reality at inflection points in your career.
• A vicious cycle can emerge: you’re waiting to be included while others are waiting for you to engage.
• While you can’t control others, you can break the part of the pattern you have control of.
• Define your value proposition. What gets missed when you don’t show up?
• Remind yourself of shared goals or values with the group. This prevents the small stuff from distracting you as much.
• Identify a few supportive people and build relationships with them.

Resources Mentioned

• Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential by Muriel Wilkins (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)
• The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

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David Hutchens: Story Dash

David Hutchens works with leaders around the world to find, craft, and tell their most urgent stories for the purpose of creating shared meaning, preserving culture, disseminating learning, and speeding change in organizations. He has taught the Storytelling Leader program at some of the most influential organizations, including NASA, Paypal, Loreal Paris, Cisco, Walmart, Google, and FedEx. He’s written many books, including the Circle of the 9 Muses, Story Dash, and The Leadership Story Deck.

When organizational change is happening, leaders need to be intentional about lining up with culture, especially if it’s the time to shift that culture just a bit. We often do the logistics well, but we miss the power of both the human and emotional connections. In this episode, David and I discuss how story can help us make a meaningful shift.

Key Points

• The organizations that are being intentional about culture are also being intentional about story.
• Getting beyond the logistics of changes and leaning first into humanity and emotion help people frame cultural shifts.
• Leaders go first. Embodied stories from leaders are surprising, counter-cultural, and repeatable.
• Asking for stories is rarely sufficient. Instead, invite stories through intentional prompts like, “Tell me about a time you felt more engaged, alive, and happiest in your work here.”
• Received stories are the ones told by employees. Adding an emotion word to an invitation such as, “What’s a time you were proud?” often surfaces more genuine stories.

David is now a Coaching for Leaders expert partner. Connect with him to discover how he might support your organization in making a meaningful cultural shift via our partners page or email him directly at [email protected].

Resources Mentioned

• Circle of the 9 Muses: A Storytelling Field Guide for Innovators and Meaning Makers by David Hutchens (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Story Dash: Find, Develop, and Activate Your Most Valuable Business Stories…In Just a Few Hours by David Hutchens (Amazon)*
• Leadership Story Deck by David Hutchens (Amazon)*

Related Episodes

• Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488)
• How to Start Finding Useful Stories, with David Hutchens (episode 593)
• How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Monica Chartier: Coaching for Leaders Fellow

Monica Chartier is a group product manager in the technology industry. Her work has centered on supporting a global product experience, getting a million visitors a day. In addition to her e-commerce and technical experience, she indexes heavily on coach-like leadership with her team and also inside our community as one of our Coaching for Leaders Fellows.

In this conversation, Monica and I explore a need inside the Coaching for Leaders membership community and how we used the design thinking process to approach it. We outline the five key steps we followed and how you might do the same to address a problem inside your own organization.

Key Points

Five steps to solve a problem using design thinking:

1. Empathy: Start with Intentional Listening and Observation.
2. Define: Clarify the Real Problem to Solve.
3. Ideate: Co-Create Ideas and Form Testable Hypotheses.
4. Prototype: Start Small, Learn Fast.
5. Test, Learn, and Adapt: Make Iteration a Leadership Habit.

Access Monica’s detailed guide (PDF download)

Resources Mentioned

• Monica Chartier on LinkedIn

Related Episodes

• The Way to Make Struggles More Productive, with Sarah Stein Greenberg (episode 569)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

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