In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Marketing AI Update, Swinging Elections, Smart Home Update, and Tarot Chris Returns!

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Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite

Streamyard tries to get me

TikTok and YouTube vs. MSM on elections

Canada shuts down TikTok business

Katie Artifact – Running on Anthropic Claude

8:15 – 9:00 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Open AI O1 Model leak

Nice Martech Overview of everything going on in LinkedIn

MarketingProfs Preview: Katie and Chris doing a full day session on AI for Analytics, also past guests Rand Fishkin (Great Expectations, Lost and Founder), and Nancy Harhut (Using Behavioral Science in Marketing)

MarketingProfs Cocktail Hour Tarot Readings with Chris Returns!!

Results from 54 Google Ad Experiments

A Reddit Marketing Discussion that’s not trash

17:38 – 19:09 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Matter 1.4 Standards for Smart Homes, Siri gets smarter, and John jury rigs a subwoofer to his Bose TV Speaker

Martha Stewart, Agatha All Along, Kara Swisher’s Burn Book

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In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Now with more WP Feuds, AI Detectors and Lower Decks

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WordPress vs. WPEngine feud

Anthropic computer use – you can give AI permission to use your machine aka Rise of The Agents

AI detectors are all garbage

14:27 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Home speakers: Echo Studio Pro vs. Klipsch The Fives vs. Sonos

NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Ambient mixing tool from Google

Lower Decks

Mr. McMahon

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In this Marketing Over Coffee:

Seth Godin, Best Selling Author of 21 books in 36 langugages talks with John Wall about Strategy

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The new book is This Is Strategy

Field Testing it through videos on Purple.Space (that are now a course on Udemy)

Why feedback is often just lies

The strategies behind the book itself – including the game of life

7:30 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Culture was invented by systems to defend themselves

Marketing and empathy

How do games fit into strategy?

Luck does not even out in the long run

15:27 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Doing all the extras

Honoring to work of Donella Meadows and Russ Ackoff by explaining systems

Harvard Admissions

Lewis Hyde on The Coyote

Once you have a strategy think about three business plans

Beats Fit Pro are John’s pick, Shokz Headphones change swimming forever for Seth

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In this Marketing Over Coffee:

Co-Founder and CTO of Uniqode, Ravi Pratap brings us up to date on the lastest marketing applications of QR codes

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Starting out in NYC at Morgan Stanley, and off to DC

7:45 – 8:27 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

The first product made the desktop web mobile

The 4 keys to Mobile: Bluetooth, Camera, GPS, and NFC

Uniqode A centralized end-to-end solution for QR codes

QR Code API

20:52 – 22:24 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Why NFC didn’t explode by QR?

Digital Business Cards

Currently reading Outlive – expanding your healthspan, and just watched Hit Man

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In this Marketing Over Coffee:

Author Tamsen Webster talks about how to create impact in the real world with her latest book on The 9 Principles of Lasting Change

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Brought to you by our sponsors:NetSuite and Wix Studio

The new book: Say What They Can’t Unhear

Interview on the previous book: Find Your Red Thread

Driving action in marketing, sales, and leadership communication is not the same as creating long term change

Creating internal motivation so the behavior is repeated without outside effort

Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Using Aristotle’s approach – you must lead with the elements of agreement

Story is arguement

People want to be seen as smart, capable, and good

NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

You can’t want it more than they do

The Message Design Institute

The question of how to accelerate the understanding and adoption of new ideas

Learn2Reinvent

The Compact Case

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In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Now with more synthetic focus groups, AI memory manipulation, and Deadpool Wolverine

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Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite

Open AI text to chat Voice Interface now available

Voice as the next big interface

Virtual focus groups by training models on your Ideal Customer Profile

Try out Advanced Voice Mode in ChatGPT to start

Andy Crestodina’s latest Blogging Statistics – 80% of bloggers are using AI as part of their content creation

7:29 – 8:13 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Building an AI Agent on the livestream!

Videos of Chris’ MAICON and INBOUND sessions

14:37 – 16:08 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

AI can rewrite your memory

Order from Bova’s!

See us at MarketingProfs B2B!

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The post AI Voice Chat, Agents, and Cannoli appeared first on Marketing Over Coffee Marketing Podcast.

In this Marketing Over Coffee:

Learn how enterprise B2C organizations gather customer insights from around the globe for marketing, product and advertising insight on this Marketing Over Coffee

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Brought to you by our sponsors:NetSuite and Wix Studio

Bringing Hubspot to the rest of the world!

Starting out in music and then becoming and interpreter

CSA Research, SmartLane

Opening Hubspot Tokyo

NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Working with Global Consumer Brands at Zappi

Tracking trends like the Sephora 10 Year Old

The three main categories of consumer insights

Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

At what growth point do orgs usually engage Zappi?

Connecting insights across silos

The Consumer Insights Revolution, based on work done by Pepsi and Zappi

Music from Sting (Sorry, I wanted to build a Spotify playlist but they don’t have Fragile in Portuguese)

Follow Nataly on LinkedIn!

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The post Nataly Kelly, CMO of Zappi on Consumer Insights appeared first on Marketing Over Coffee Marketing Podcast.

In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Now with more trip reporting, smart speakers, and Boston Accents!

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The exceptional glory of "With Special Guest"

Post MAICON trip report

Headphone demos on the expo floor

8:14 – 8:56 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Managing the People Who Manage AI

Midjourney now has a web UI

Marketer’s Guide to Reddit

15:45 – 17:09 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Derek mentioned Bento as email service provider

Strawberry

Smart Picture Frame – Aura has a solid app and device. Also testing iFramix for obsolete iPads

SmartSpeaker Update!

The Instigators, The Perfect Couple, and Cobra Kai

See us at MarketingProfs B2B!

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The post Marketing AI Conference Wrap Up, Reddit, and Cobra Kai! appeared first on Marketing Over Coffee Marketing Podcast.

In this Marketing Over Coffee:

Mignon Fogarty talks about grammar, creating her digital network, writing and podcasting!

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18 years of Grammar Girl!

Quick and Dirty Tips Network Site

Getting the network going right at the start

Signing with MacMillian to get it all going

Getting Oprah’s attention

8:37 – 9:19 – Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Crossing the podcasting chasm

Evolving the show over time

What’s hot in business grammar?

Active vs. Passive

Better business email strategies

17:48- 19:35 Track expenses, find deductions, and get a bigger tax refund. Get 10% off @Keeper.tax at keepertax.com/moc! #keepertaxpod

Join the Grammarpalooza text community! https://joinsubtext.com/grammar or text “hello” to (917) 540-0876

How do you stay current on grammar?

Threads is working

Updated Books: Grammar Girl Presents the Ultimate Writing Guide for Students, The Grammar Daily

Catch up with Mignon on Threads or LinkedIn

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In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Now with less gall bladder and more random…

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Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite

Firsthand account of using AI in healthcare

Using RAG lock for post surgical recovery

Mixing business with politics and surviving

9:58 – 10:40 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Salesforce Shopping Index says soft holiday season

Temu and getting your own project manufactured

Dual GPS

17:14 – 18:38 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

Yelp vs. Google

John complains about companies that market projectors and earbuds poorly

Event Best Practices and John’s super secret Profs B2B schedule

MAICON and INBOUND coming up for Chris

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Machine Generated Transcript

00:00
John Wall
Today’s episode is brought to you by Netsuite and Wix studio.

00:17
John Wall
Good morning. Welcome to marketing over coffee. I’m John Wall.

00:21
Christopher Penn
I’m Christopher Penn.

00:22
John Wall
Last week, were joking that you got a bad taco, which was why you weren’t around, and it ended up being way more than a bad taco. So what the hell went down?

00:33
Christopher Penn
It turns out that, my gallbladder died. Literally. My surgeon said it had totally necrotized, and was a dead organ inside me. And what I thought was a bad taco was, in fact, the first stages of septic shock. So had I left it untreated, I would just have died in about, in less than a week, which. Dying in a hotel room alone in Los Angeles. Not, not the end of the story that I want now. If I’m going to go out, I want to go out big. So, or at least. At least hilarious. Funny. And that. That is neither of those, but that’s. Yeah, that was found. So Friday morning, I rolled into surgery. They, removed it all. They said it was, you know, it was much worse than anyone thought. And, and now I’m on the road to recovery.

01:18
John Wall
That is amazing. Yeah, it’s amazing you’ve rebounded, because I, you know, I said it’s like, look, if you want to skip this week and sleep it off, but it’s amazing how they turned you right around over the weekend, and you were back in the office on Tuesday doing your thing.

01:31
Christopher Penn
Yeah, well, so laparoscopic surgery is like that, and it’s interesting. We’re doing a couple things. One, on Friday, I knew I was going to have to try, you know, recount the tale of what I thought was happening. So I fired up chat GPT, and I told it like, you’re a doctor. You’re going to ask me a bunch of questions, and I’m going to build an intake list so that I can just hand it to the doctor, because, like, as the pain got worse, it got progressively harder to think straight and stuff. So I would just, I was just foaming throughout the rambling, answering its questions, you know, repeating myself over and over again. And, and what it did was it consolidated all and put together this really awesome list. So, you know, when I rolled into the ER, I was not really coherent.

02:10
Christopher Penn
And the doctor was like, so tell me what’s happening. I just hand him the phone. He’s like, read, and he goes through his and, you know, both at urgent care and the ER, the doctor’s like, wow, are you like, in healthcare? Are you a doctor? Like, this is really thorough, really comprehensive. Like, if I have, I’ve been able to speak properly, I would have said, no, I work in AI. And you’re looking at what generative AI can do to make a bunch of relatively incoherent information coherent and correct.

02:36
John Wall
Yeah, that’s amazing, because you said AI and medical that you wanted to talk about because of this and that. Yeah, that’s fascinating. I was wondering, how did you get over and just handing the phone worked? Because that’s a whole other thing. It’s like, okay, you can get this great thing, but there’s no printers around anywhere.

02:50
Christopher Penn
Exactly. I could have actually turned on voice mode, just had it read it aloud too. And then the second thing was on Saturday when I came home. Because laparoscopic surgery is outpatient, typically they kept me overnight for observation because of the severity of it. I went into notebook LM, which is Google’s free research tool, and it’s called a rag locked system. What this means is that it will only answer questions of data you give it, so it will not make things up. It’ll just say, hey, you didn’t provide that information, so I can’t answer it. And I loaded like 40 different papers on post surgical recovery, this, that, all these different studies. And I said, okay, let’s come up with what should I be doing to accelerate recovery as fast as possible?

03:32
Christopher Penn
One of those things was a paper from NIH through pubMed, which is as credible as you’re going to get, saying the use of vitamin C, about 1500 milligrams spaced out in doses throughout the day, has collagenic effects, which means that skin wounds and tissues tend to heal faster, not with like one big dose all at once, but smaller doses spaced out throughout the day because of the nature of the way the ascorbic acid works, so. But you always have to take it with food because it can upset your stomach and things like that. So I paired it with psyllium husk fiber to slow it down through the digestive system. And then essentially I’ve been taking that. And at least in the systematic reviews that were in the papers, that accelerates wound healing by up to 40%.

04:23
John Wall
Wow, that’s amazing. Well, I can use that. This weekend I had a couple mishaps. I was doing some construction on a doorway and lost a piece of a knuckle. And even worse, I was reaching for the blender and hit a knife on the knife rack on the way back. Oh, that was majorly painful. So. All right, well, so there we go. A little extra vitamin C. I will do the same thing here.

04:44
Christopher Penn
Yes. We have to put up the disclaimer that we are not qualified medical professionals. We cannot give medical advice. Marketing over coffee is a marketing podcast. Please consult your health qualified healthcare provider for advice specific to your situation.

04:58
John Wall
I know the list for today is like, we are not doctors, we are not lawyers, and we are not politicians. So, you know, bear that in mind with all of these topics that we go through on the rundown, because it’s all over the place today. Let’s get that one off the table, too. You had mentioned talking about, politics and business, so there’s been a lot.

05:18
Christopher Penn
Of discussion about this lately. You know, different companies, getting involved in politics, sending out things and stuff. What’s your take on that? On whether a company should get involved?

05:27
John Wall
I had a big discussion with that over in spin sucks. We were talking with Ginny Dietrich about that. She’s put a lot of time, and, of course, she has politicians in the family, related in the family, so she follows that. One of the big points that she had was like, unless your business is in the public realm, unless your business touches something that is politically related, then there’s just no upside to doing it, because you’re basically, unfortunately, in today’s climate, you’re making half the country angry regardless of which way you go. And so you’re risking your business. So unless it’s something that is, especially if you’re a large company that lives quarter by quarter and pleasing your stockholders. Yeah, absolutely not.

06:07
John Wall
So then you get into this weird area of, okay, you’re a smaller company, privately held, or whatever your deal is that you don’t care about shareholders. Do you burn half the business because you want to make a stance on something. And that’s definitely the company’s right. But there’s also this weird thing of, yeah, you know, if you’re okay with half the customers saying, we’re out of here, that’s great. But. So, yeah, it’s. It’s, you know, like the. Unfortunately, the mess that is politics is spreading itself into other realms now is really the take I have on that. But, yeah. What made it brought it to the top of the list for you?

06:42
Christopher Penn
Oh, I mean, just, you know, every. Every. Everybody and their cousin having something to say about it. It’s interesting because I see it as one of those things where it’s values based. So if your company’s values, because every company’s got them on the values in the mission state and stuff like that on the website, if you have values and you get into discussions about political things, those values have to come into play in some fashion. So I’ll give you a real simple example. I personally and our company trust insights, by extension, are very invested in things like data. Data, factual truth, objective data, as much as possible given reality, I think.

07:20
Christopher Penn
So in terms of things like political arguments and debates, if you have a person or a position or a party or whatever, that is strongly invested in wrong data, like objectively wrong data, like, oh, the sky is red. Like, no, it’s this wavelength of light which is generally accepted to be blue, then, yeah, we’re probably not going to agree with that. And what’s interesting is that with those values, those might not be very good customers to begin with. So if you have somebody who’s like, I don’t believe in data, I believe in my way is the right way. Well, when I tell you that your analytics is saying this is, you’re doing it the wrong way, you’re not going to be happy with me, you’re not going to find value in my services, because you want things to be different than reality.

08:11
Christopher Penn
And as a result, you’re going to last maybe a month or two as a client. You won’t make changes that make sense, that adhere to the data, and as a result, you’re probably going to be a bad customer.

08:24
John Wall
Jeff? Yeah, that’s definitely. We see there’s a certain segment of the population that it doesn’t matter if they’re angry at us because we know they’re never going to be our customer. They’re not going to, they’re not following the data story. They have other things that they want to believe, and they’re going to run with that. And even we see that with a lot of entrepreneurs, too. It’s not even a political thing. We see a lot of. Yeah, and it makes sense. It’s like, okay, you kind of have to be a little bit crazy to risk everything on some kind of startup venture. And so, yeah, that’s great that you’re bold and a risk taker, but that may also mean that you have some other weird personality issues that are troublesome.

09:00
Christopher Penn
So, yeah, where you see this really play out and you’re starting to see it, you know, in this, both this election and in business is when you start getting real goldfish bubbles. Goldfish bowl bubbles. You see, like a lot of there’s a good chunk of the Silicon Valley tech bros in this sort of bubble and they keep getting further and further away from reality on like literally everything. Making products, you know, that, you know, making solutions for things, problems people don’t have or not considering in the slightest what the consequences of what they’re doing is. It’s kind of alarming when you talk, particularly in AI where people are like, oh yeah, we got an AI that’s going to take away 95% of jobs, but how are people going to then buy from you?

09:52
John Wall
Maybe that’s, yeah, I’ve got some other stats on buying stuff we’ll jump into. Before we do that though, we just want to take a second. We want to thank Wix Studio for their support of marketing over coffee. Digital marketers, this one’s for you. I’ve got 30 seconds to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. So here are a few things you can do in 30 seconds or less. When you manage projects on Wix Studio, work in sync with your team one canvas. Reuse templates, widgets and sections across sites, create a client kit for seamless handovers and leverage best in class SEO defaults across all your Wix sites. Times up, but the list keeps going. Step into Wix Studio to see more.

10:34
John Wall
Head on over to Wix Studio.com to check it out and we thank them for their support of the show. Yeah, so its funny you mentioned shopping Salesforce shopping index, their marketing site has a whole bunch of reports that theyre doing quarterly now saying that the holiday season is going to be on the soft side, which, yeah, imagine that people been getting gouged on food for 25% over the past year. Theyre going to buy less plastic at Christmas time, I think is the punchline to that. One thing that was interesting with that was the stat they were saying that they’re expecting half of shoppers to take advantage of chinese shopping sites, which that struck me as high also as making an ugly holiday season. Some of the stuff that gets sold there is just, you know, I mean some of it is legit.

11:18
John Wall
It’s the same stuff coming off the factory lines that you pay three x for. But then, you know, a lot of those hairdryer slash car charger slash tire inflators, some of that stuff is pretty, it’s not suspect. It’s just like it arrives broken. It’s like some of that stuff we get at the local hardware big box. What are your thoughts on the holiday season? Is there anything you’re keeping in mind or working towards on that, I can.

11:43
Christopher Penn
Definitely see the team use of the world selling the appropriately discounted products. There’s a reason that’s 75% less than the competitor. But honestly, if you look around, you spend 15 minutes just picking up various objects in your home and looking where it was made. Like, yeah, a lot of stuff is not made where you live, unless you happen to live in, like, Shenzhen, which case it’s kind of one of those things where you have to evaluate vendors, and this is true of everything. You have to evaluate vendors based on their individual levels of quality control. One of the things I think is really interesting is there’s a lot of fab houses now in Shenzhen and the entire Guangdong province that do custom work. Like, if you got the cash, you can have a product made to your specifications.

12:38
Christopher Penn
And I think there’s a boutique market there. So, for example, I was looking at rode makes, the wireless go transmitters, and they sell a microphone converter, which is a $29 piece of plastic. That’s all it is to stick the thing into it. Like, I could do that with a popsicle stick at a piece of tape. Guys, I don’t need to pay $29 for that. But I was thinking, wouldn’t it have been nice if that had, like, a power bank in it, you know, so you could just pop it right in and just have a USB C male connector. Well, I could go to any one of these distributors on Alibaba and say, hey, here’s the spec. Here’s what I want to make. Can you make this? How much will it cost me?

13:17
Christopher Penn
And then if I wanted to, I could start my own business selling this particular product that was made to my specifications. One of the things that this, that generative AI allows us to do that is different today, and this is for every marketer, is, you can say, okay, I want to do this. Walk me through the steps of designing this thing. What do I need to do so that I can approach a manufacturer onshore, offshore, nearshore, it doesn’t matter, and say, how do I make this thing happen? And you may find, as many companies have, that. That one little solution that you wanted and you had custom made. Suddenly people like, where do I get that? You’re like, well, I mean, I had it made. Like, can you make me one?

14:03
Christopher Penn
Like, sure, it’s going to cost you, like, $89, and then suddenly you’re selling them on Etsy or whatever. I. And I think marketers in particular should be on the lookout for this in their own companies. To say, like, what problems are we solving today that other people might want to buy?

14:20
John Wall
Yeah, there’s a lot of stuff going on with that. And I’ve kind of been surprised that the 3d printing, you know, revolution is still kind of not moving as quick as it can. But I see a lot of things, just like what you mentioned where there’s kind of like, okay, I need a bracket to get this to that or whatever, and you can find a 3d diagram out there and just have it done. And then, yeah, this leads into, I went down a whole rat hole over the past two weeks about dual gps, which is something that I had never gone into. The impetus was I ran the Falmouth road race a couple weeks ago and my apple Watch just completely let me down. The GPS added a mile.

14:56
John Wall
It said I was, it looked like I was a Wolverine on speed the way I was like, you know, running five circles around a block before I continued. And so as I dug into it, I found out, well, there’s a lot of pollution that week because of the canadian fires and then running through trees in branched over areas. That affects GPS. Well, the biggest thing in the past three or four years is that there are now like five different networks that have GPS satellites.

15:22
John Wall
You know, back in the nineties when I had my first gps, and you were like waiting five minutes for it to get a lock and actually tell you where you were, now there’s tons of satellites up there, but the big thing is just in the past year and a half, they have a chipset that does dual gps that will actually grab more than one of these networks and get, you know, significantly better accuracy and if you’re, you know, really interested in that. So iPhone 15 was the first one that has this dual mode GPS and the newest ultra watch, which is like $800 right now. And they’re like, there’s no way I’m going to do that. And so Garmin, if you’re into running at all, Garmin has a ton of running watches that are great.

15:58
John Wall
I, but then Koros is the third brand, which is a chinese brand, where they have this model of, they just kind of scrape off the best features that they can afford to squeeze in there for $200. And its a $200 watch and its like, yeah, you dont have to spend 500 with Garmin and you dont have to spend 900 with Apple for $200. You can get this. And sure enough, its telling me which side of the street im on. Its that good as far as lying it in. But yeah, all that to run down and get more accurate tracking of where I’m at. And this idea that, yeah, there is a space in that market for we’re going to grab the low cost technologies and bundle them all up and make it work.

16:38
Christopher Penn
Preston dual gps chips are probably also in very heavy demand right now because in the Ukraine war, obviously both sides are trying to jam each other and they’re all using drones to do all kinds of crazy stuff. I saw a video the other day of a ukrainian drone, commercial drone, that was equipped with Thermite charger to drop thermite on russian positions, which very innovative use, but obviously partly is controlled by a person with a controller and goggles, but also partly by GPS. And so anything that has better gps accuracy is a win for whoever’s using it.

17:13
John Wall
We do have to take a second. We want to thank Netsuite by Oracle for their support of marketing over coffee. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts. You’ll get ten answers. Rates will rise or fall, inflation’s up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 38,000 businesses have future proof their business with Netsuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There’s one source of truth, giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions with real time insights and forecasting. You’re peering into the future with actionable data. When you’re closing the books in days, not weeks, you’re spending less time looking backward and more time on what’s next.

18:00
John Wall
We have a number of customers who use Netsuite and it is that one source of truth that’s just so much easier to take action on your data when it’s all within one system. You’re not having to worry about integration, synchronization, extract, transform, load. You just go and you get answers. You can move forward. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO’s guide to AI and machine [email protected]. Coffee the guy is free to [email protected]. Coffee that’s Netsuite.com. C o F F e e again, netsuite.com coffee. And we thank Netsuite for their support of the show Yelp versus Google. Just something that we’re keeping an eye on is the fact that they are suing Google because of local results. So that’s interesting to see. I dont know. Yelp has a tough reputation in the food service industry. I dont know if thats changed though.

18:54
John Wall
I do as a disclaimer, Im basing that on about four years ago worth of stuff when I did some heavy research into that. So I dont know if its changed different. So watching those two fight it out will be interesting and see where that goes. I had a thing on products that I wanted to throw out there, another gear watch thing. Nebula has a new laser projector theyve just come out with. Theyve had their 4k laser projector that’s like up around the 15 or $1,700 price point. They came out with an SE version which you can get for about $1,000. But it’s just weird in that I can’t get a clear answer as to whether it’s better than the previous model. Like yes, it’s a little bit cheaper, but then the more expensive one is brighter.

19:34
John Wall
And I’ve just run into this more than once. The other one was with Jabra earbuds. They have this whole line of like you can get the three, the five, the seven, the ultra, the sport, all these things and you can never get a clear answer as far as, well, which one should I buy for this? So having that stuff, if I get to the bottom of the projector thing, I will talk about that next week because I’m not really up for buying a new projector. But unfortunately, sometimes the siren call of world class picture just kind of grabs me. We have a ton of travel coming up I wanted to throw out, though. I had a article on event best practices, you know, getting prepped. And so what I’ve got for that is I’m going to give this on the show.

20:15
John Wall
I’m not even going to publish this and I’m going to pull out of the transcript. But if you’re going to marketing profs b two b, I have both your session and then Katie will be after you, Andy Crestadina will be there, Ashley Zecman. So that’s my day one. If you, if you want to save yourself a lot of scheduling hassle and dealing through the pile. We also have John Miller on day two who we haven’t heard from in a while. So I want to get that. And Rand Fishkin will be there Thursday afternoon in the late session. So that’s the, oh, and Nancy Harhut is also talking about some new data stuff. I always love catching her as far as what she’s watching and running with there. So that’s the profs b two b rundown.

20:54
John Wall
If you’re going to be there, definitely drop us a line. I would love to catch up with you. And then you’ve got Macon is next week, too. Anything else big on that you want to throw?

21:04
Christopher Penn
So I’ll be doing a talk on open models and why they’re a good idea. The way I have it planned right now is a bunch of slides and then a quick walkthrough. How do you get started with this stuff? There’s some been some really cool new tools that have come out recently that make it easier to get started. Still not easy, but it’s easier, which I think is going to be a lot of fun. And then immediately after that I head to Philadelphia for lab Products association and immediately after that I go to inbounda and I speak at inbound. I’m going to be doing my data driven AI powered customer journey talk. That’s going to be a 90 minutes talk slash workshop.

21:37
Christopher Penn
So I’m going to do a race through of the material in about 30 minutes and spend 60 minutes basically doing demos and showing like how do you actually do this stuff where you can take your data out of these different systems, put it into generative AI and get reasonably credible answers from the systems? So it’s going to be a packed schedule. September, I think I have a total of five days in the office. Yeah, five days minus the day I was in surgery.

22:06
John Wall
Yeah, no, you’ve been on the run and it’s not going to stop. So there’s plenty happening there. Inbound is another good one, too. If you’re going to be over at inbound, go ahead and drop this line. You swing on over to the analytics for marketers Slack group. I’ll link to that in the show notes so you can join that or. Yes, sign up for the marketing over coffee text line at 617-812-5494 because I’ll be sending stuff live and around there and we can even, it has subgroups. I can do a on site group if you want to trade some stuff. That would be fun.

22:32
Christopher Penn
PSA according to PMC forecasts this coming week, the week of Macon is going to be the largest surge of COVID for the summer and then it should start to wind down. But essentially the odds are right now one in 30 people is actively contagious around you. So if you’re at an event with 1000 people, 33 of those people are actively contagious. If you’re at inbound, which is like 10,000 people, 300 of those people are going to be actively transmitting disease. Please take care of your health. Wear a mask to get the new booster. That’s out, so that you will have, some durable immunity. Boosters require two weeks in advance, so if you’re going to inbound, get your booster now.

23:11
John Wall
That sounds good. Good PSA. Yeah. Did do not get sick over the business traveling fall. That’s just such a horrible thing. You don’t want to get wrapped up in that. All right, that’s good. That’ll do it for this week, then. So until next week, enjoy the coffee.

23:24
Christopher Penn
Enjoy the coffee. You’ve been listening to marketing over coffee. Christopher Penn blogs at Christopherspen. Read more from John J. Wall at JW 5150 dot the marketing over coffee theme song is called Melogy by funk masters, and you can find it at musicalley from Mevio. Or follow the link in our show notes.

The post RAG, Politics, Dual GPS, and Road Trips! appeared first on Marketing Over Coffee Marketing Podcast.

In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Katie does a tour of Google Gemini writing copy trained on an Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)!

Direct Link to File

Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite

Using your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) to improve your storytelling ability

If you want to watch the video on YouTube

Ron Ploof’s StoryHow Pitch Deck

NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

What makes up the ICP

The Trust Insights PARE framework for writing prompts

Examining the ICP to find Pain Points

Starting with the ending in mind

Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!

Join John, Chris and Katie on threads, or on LinkedIn: Chris, John, and Katie

Sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee Newsletter to get early access!

Our theme song is Mellow G by Fonkmasters.

Machine Generated Transcript

00:06
John Wall
This is marketing over coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.

00:14
John Wall
Hey, everybody. So between ending vacations and already hitting the road for fall events, we’ve got another week before we get back to our regular shows. But I had something really interesting this week. I was doing a session with Katie Robert, the CEO over at Trust Insights, who I work with, and were showing off how you can train a large language model to act like one of your customers. And the goal was to prove that we could use Google Gemini to create a story for our prospects that would talk to these customers and prospects in their own language and follow all the best practices of storytelling. So it’s really having AI create these rough drafts of your marketing campaigns and stories that you could use to get them to take action.

00:56
John Wall
So this was a live stream, and I will throw in the YouTube link if you want to watch how it all happens. But I mean, if you’re familiar with just entering prompts and getting feedback, you don’t need to actually see, you know, the keyboard flashing. I’ve edited the live stream here down so you can follow it audio only and hear about how were able to come up with these storylines. It gets into some fascinating points on what makes a great story, and I have to give a huge shout out to Ron Plouffe here as we follow his story how framework, which is the best framework out there as far as crafting a story and hitting all the major beats you need to get your story correct.

01:30
John Wall
And I thought you’d be interested in how it turned out when we started pushing Gemini, you know, to come up with the story points and see how accurate it came back. So thanks to Katie for letting us grab this session and throw it in the feed. Also, I’m going to be at marketing prosp b two B in November, as Will Chris and Katie. So give a yell if you’re coming to Boston for that. We would love to see you and catch up with you. And next week, we will be kicking off the fall season and back with the regular show. And so with that, let’s jump right in.

01:56
Katie Robbert
This week, John and I are talking about leveraging your ICP, your ideal customer profile for data storytelling. We’re going to cover which data points your ICP can help with, the tactics to make the most compelling stories and how to check your story for clarity and effectiveness, both in your copy and visuals. Now, data storytelling is one of those things that we think is easy, but it’s actually really challenging because we’re like, oh, the data tells the story, but that’s not really true, because the data, a lot of times, is just a lot of numbers, and you have to pull out the story, but you also need to figure out from your client or whoever you’re working with, what story they need to be told.

02:38
Katie Robbert
And so, John, you and I very likely would want different stories from the same data because of our roles, because of our responsibilities. Where would you like to start today? I always ask Chris, but I’m going to ask you today, where would you like to start?

02:53
John Wall
Where do we want to start? Well, there’s a bunch of stuff. It’s funny, when you came up with this topic, went down a list of, like, okay, what can we talk about? And you said, storytelling and fitting into the data. And I was like, oh, this is perfect. Because I know the framework for this. I’d worked years ago with Ron Plouf, and he has his story how framework. And so the big thing with this is that everybody has these story frameworks. Like, when you go do the research on advisors who do this stuff, everybody has their own framework. But the thing that Ron had done is that he came up with 60 elements. He, as an engineer, broke it down into everything it can be. And so his breakdown is completely comprehensive. So we have a list of everything you need to do.

03:32
John Wall
And I was like, this is going to be fantastic, because you can outline all the stuff that’s going on with the Icpenna, and then we can layer that into these story how points, and it will put together a bulletproof story that can’t miss. Basically, once you’ve covered all the key points, a good place to start is with ICP, as far as bringing people up to speed with that and talk about the kind of data that you pull when you’re getting that together. As you prep to get the story, before you start working on the bones of the story, you’ve got to get all your research and everything in order if you want to dive into that. I think that’s where we need to kick it off.

04:07
Katie Robbert
What we’ve been doing with our methodology for an ICP is we’ve been using minimal data sets, because here’s the thing. We know that the data collection is the thing that holds up a lot of people from moving things forward. The idea that I had was if you could find the minimal amount of easy to access data, then you could build an ideal customer profile, which is basically a proxy for your actual customers, because doing that kind of market research, the focus groups, that’s also a lot of overhead and a lot of resources. And so how could we make something really efficient, really detailed, really on target that didn’t take a lot of time and resources?

04:55
Katie Robbert
And so what we’ve done is we’ve built basically the methodology for creating an ideal customer profile that covers your firmographics, your demographics, your psychographics, your pain points, how people make decisions. And it’s from your standpoint, from you, the end user, what we ask of you is very few things. We want to know who your competitors are. We want to know who you are. Basically just your, we’re basically just asking for some URL’s and maybe a snapshot of your website analytics, if available. It’s a very low bandwidth type of activity. So from there, what we can do is we can then use the ICP in this instance as a proxy stand in for our clients. So the first thing we want to do is set the stage.

05:43
Katie Robbert
And so using the trust insights pair framework, which you can get from our website, trustinsights AI pair, you can start to prime the model. That’s the whole purpose of peer. So what I’ve written in so far is today we are working on data storytelling for our client. We’ll have an ICP to stand in for the client and a lot of data points for review before we get started, what are the best practices of data storytelling? And the reason we do this is so we can start to prime the model so it’s given focused direction. We’ll do that and let that run. And so it says, absolutely. Let’s review some of the best practices before your ICP session. So, understanding your audience, what do they care about? What do they need to know? Starting with compelling hook, having a clear beginning, middle and end.

06:32
Katie Robbert
Choose the right visuals so this all makes sense. And the nice thing is that these first few pieces are covered by the ICP. And so this gives you a really good foundation for being able to use your ICP as a proxy for your client. Or let’s say you’re doing a new business pitch and you want to be able to say, these are the things that we can do. You have to be able to tell a compelling story. Your ICP can stand in for whoever it is you’re pitching to. This is where we’re going to introduce the ideal customer profile. So first, let me upload the file. We’ve already gone through the process of creating the ideal customer profile. Here is the ICP for your review. So what we’ve done so far is we’ve primed the model.

07:20
Katie Robbert
We’ve said we’re going to do storytelling, we’re going to use the ICP as a stand in for a client. What are the best practices? What are the things you don’t recommend we do? And now here’s the ICP. So you’re saying, great focus in on the pain points of this ICP. This will become the purpose, the why and narrative of our data storytelling. So the reason I want to focus in on the pain points is because what we want to do with the data is solve those problems. That’s why people are coming to us. But we have to know what those pain points are before we can sort of put the narrative together. So what we have so far is the pain points. Difficulty in aggregating and utilizing large datasets from multiple channels and platforms.

08:12
Katie Robbert
Inability to measure true impact of marketing campaigns across different channels. Fragmented customer experience due to lack of integration between customer data and marketing technology. Difficulty in aligning marketing initiatives with broader business goals. Do those sound like solid pain points? Do we want to dig deeper?

08:29
John Wall
That’s the classic marketing challenges. Yeah, you’re doing the campaigns and you can’t prove what’s working. You’re not aligned with the sales team. All that stuff is. Yeah, right on the bullseye.

08:42
Katie Robbert
This is a great summary. Our next step is to review the available data. I am now going to upload the data that the client has provided. All right, so, John, do you want to talk a little bit about some of the storytelling techniques that we’re going to be digging into as I painfully upload these one by one, finish the load?

09:11
John Wall
Yeah, sure. We can talk about that. As I had mentioned that there’s, you know, 60 points that are covered that, you know, if you’re crafting a full on story, you want to hit all of those points. But as a getting started point, there’s really just eight main categories that you need to hit and get going. And so as we go through those cards, the first one is the audience. The most important thing is exactly on the mark with ICP of who needs this message? What do they need to know today, what do they need to know tomorrow? What are their biases, what are their strengths, and what are their limitations? With these questions, you basically create the person that you’re going to convince with the story.

09:49
John Wall
The idea is that as a business writing a story, you’re doing this to convince somebody to end up somewhere else, to take a journey and get to another point. So this one is solid. As far as ICP, we know who needs the message. We’re able to dig in and get a profile of who they are, what they’re doing, what their job is, and then it is really interesting to get into that. What do they need? What do they know today, and what do they need to know tomorrow? That’s really the pain points come to light right there. You’ve got the situation of what they see for today, where they’re at, and you want to get to where they’re going and help them get in a better position for tomorrow. For biases, that one is. That’s a challenge.

10:32
John Wall
And this I’d be interested, as we run ICP more, to kind of find out more about the biases of the audience, because that one’s a kind of a black box, but it definitely flavors the way you create your story. You know, you have to work around their biases or play into them as you go. What are their strengths? That’s basic profile, right? We kind of know what they can do or can’t do, and then what are their limitations? That’s right up there with biases. When you get to the core of where their limitations are, you’re defining where the pain points are and the places they can’t go. And that’s usually a great place for you to jump in and play the hero and get them to where you want to be. So, at least with audience, we’re strong.

11:16
John Wall
We’ve got that one pretty much covered, so we’re good. And then the second, as far as roles, is the protagonist. Right. We want to find out who this person is. You really want to. And every storytelling framework gets into this, right. You want to get in there and outline who the hero is, where they’re going. The biggest mistake with this one, and Ron dives into this heavy. But the biggest mistake people make here is that, as business people writing stories, they come up with the idea that their product is the hero, and that’s. That is not the case. That’s completely wrong. In fact, he basically says, look, if you said that, you need to go back to the drawing board and. And do your work again, because in most situations, when you come up with a hero story, the product is usually a tool.

12:00
John Wall
A good example is always, in today’s Marvel superhero world, the hero is Thor. Your product is the hammer. You know, the hero is there and is the customer and is the one having the adventure. But your product is what unlocks new doors for them or gives them powers that they don’t have or, you know, gets them somewhere. So, again, this one is a dead match with ICP. We get an accurate view of who these people are and what tools they need, because that’s where your product will jump in as we jump down next. So the second part of the story, as you’re crafting it, is the events, what is actually happening in the story? Where are you trying to go to? And the first one event is initial impulse.

12:42
John Wall
There has to be something that kicks your story off as far as, okay, the protagonist is doing something and life is going okay, or average or whatever, but now something happens that upsets the status quo. So what is that and where do we go? That is a dead match for what were talking about as far as pain points, right. You’ve got the. Basically, the protagonist hits these pain points and now either has to come up with answer or do something to save their job because it’s, you know, causing trouble with where they’re trying to go or making them unable to prove where they want to go. And so, yeah, we’ve got that initial spark as far as the pain points. So, yeah, that’s basically three for three so far. I see you’ve got.

13:23
John Wall
Have you reached the point where you want to get as far as getting the pain points on ICP aligned?

13:28
Katie Robbert
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for that overview, John. I mean, I think that’s incredibly helpful. The thing that really sticks out to me is that we make the assumption that our product is the hero. And that’s where I think a lot of us get into trouble. And this is why I think a tool like the ICP is so great, is it takes us out of the conversation and really refocuses it back on the needs of the customer. It’s not what we want them to have. It’s what they actually need. And so what I’ve done is I’ve uploaded a variety of. Because we’re using the trust insights ICP, I’ve uploaded a variety of our data sources.

14:05
Katie Robbert
So it’s screenshots from our marketing automation system and screenshots from our Google Analytics system to give a sense of what we’re doing from a marketing standpoint, since the pain points were around all of the different marketing campaigns showing Roi, getting alignment between the different systems, I started with saying, I have a bunch of data points. Please don’t start analyzing until I let you know that I’m ready. So as I went through, I’m like, here’s the next one. I have a few more here. Here’s the next one. I have a few more. And then I was like, okay, here’s the next one. I have three more here’s the next one. Two more. Okay, this is the last one. Now let’s go ahead. And so one of the.

14:42
Katie Robbert
One of the reasons I kind of like the one by one is that it gives me that instantaneous feedback that, yes, the system can read the data. And so, as I was going through, and I know this is a little harder to see, it was saying, this is what I see. These are the things. And so that was a good indicator for me, like, okay, this is good data to be giving the system, you know, this is where John, so you mentioned that you have, you’ve worked with Ron Plou, if you really like his structure. And so now I know you have the playing cards with all the different questions on them.

15:12
John Wall
Yeah, yeah, we can jump into those. Now, one of the other critical points is ending, right. You have to have the ending of the story mapped out from the very beginning. You don’t just kind of start hacking away and see where it goes. The idea is you want to go somewhere specific, and then you can actually test different routes to that finish line to see what, you know, where you come up with the best story. A good question point to start with this, is that ending in mind for us? So, something as far as saying, okay, what is the best way for us to convince the ICP that we can resolve these pain points?

15:48
Katie Robbert
Let’s see what happens, because I feel like now we’ve given the model all of the data, we’ve primed it knows that we’re doing data storytelling. So now this is where you can really start iterating and interacting with the model and asking these questions. And so what it’s saying is the best way to convince the ICP that trust insights, resolve pain points is but to present a compelling narrative that combines the following. Empathy and understanding. Data driven proof points. Thought leadership and expertise. Tailored solutions. Clear value proposition, collaborative approach. Call to action. Is that the kind of answer that you were looking for, John?

16:26
John Wall
Yeah, it’s interesting that it’s given us a list of which points to go down as we hit. And it’s funny, it’s really struck me that the first one was actually empathy in framing the story. It’s getting our message, acknowledging their specific challenges, and that we generally understand the struggles. That’s interesting to me as far as setting it up and beginning at that point. And then, yeah, as far as the finish line, I think what tailored solutions is at number four, how far down does it go? Is there anything else that’s even.

16:59
Katie Robbert
It goes down to seven. So call to action. Collaborative approach, clear value proposition, tailored solutions. They’re all, you know, they all relate to each other. I like that it suggests empathy and understanding first, because I know I’ve been on the receiving end of someone saying, here’s all the things you screwed up and here’s how you need to fix them. And while you might be fully aware that these things are broken or not working as well, hearing it does not make you feel great about it. And so when someone’s presenting it to you in that way, you’re like, well, now you’re just insulting me, and I don’t want to work with you versus someone who’s like, you know, I noticed.

17:39
Katie Robbert
And when that happened to me, and sort of sharing that, those relatable stories, sort of, it helps you make those human connections a little bit deeper so that you can then have that. All right, well, so here’s what I’m seeing. It’s all in the delivery.

17:54
John Wall
Yeah. And I think the key to that is the tailored solutions. Right. I mean, because that is the ending point for working with trust insight. So that gives us the place to start with as far as. Okay, so most of our customers go with this consultative approach where we manage some of the analytics for them, we take care of some of the integrations and build out this system so that the endpoint is they have somebody who’s got their back, is making sure those analytical systems are working. They’ve got the monthly or quarterly reports that they need, and they have us on call for anytime, anything. Lights on fire. Right. Like, those are the big three points of the engagement, and that’s great.

18:30
John Wall
So then starting from there as the end point, when we go back up to the empathy and understanding, we hit all those points as far as, like, hey, do you get crucified every quarter when the, you know, the board comes around? Or, hey, are you not able to get the budget you need for marketing programs because you’re unable to prove what the existing programs are doing and what kind of success you’ve had? So, yeah, the story, the kind of the bones of the story are definitely all filled out now in that we’ve got where you want to end to go with that tailored solution. And we can start off with, yeah, the empathy of painting that story of. Okay, so here’s the pain points that ultimately lead to that. So that. Yeah, that’s great.

19:07
John Wall
It’s a good way to make sure that it is all in alignment. And now you can kind of figure out, okay, how deep can we go with that story? How crazy can it get.

19:16
Katie Robbert
All right, so what’s the next question based on the framework?

19:20
John Wall
Yeah. So now we start to get into the influence section. So jeopardy is one of the cards, right? Every good story has the hero kind of come into some kind of crisis or problem. So what is the biggest risk for our ICP in trying to get to this solution and trying to get to the clear value proposition?

19:43
Katie Robbert
So what I’m writing, and let me know if this is incorrect or not. I said, what is the biggest risk for our ICP when trying to get to their solution? Is there a clear value proposition?

19:52
John Wall
Yeah, yeah, let’s throw that. I mean, because really it’s just like, what is the biggest risk? That’s all that really matters. So we’ll see what it comes back with.

19:59
Katie Robbert
Okay. So it says that the biggest risk for the ICP when trying to get to their solutions lies in potential for wasted resources and missed opportunities due to the complexity and fragmentation of their data landscape. So the challenges they face, such as difficulty in aggregating utilizing large data sets, inability to measure marketing ROI accurately, and fragmented customer experiences can lead to ineffective marketing campaigns, suboptimal customer experiences, missed growth opportunities, and operational inefficiencies. And so, you know, these are all the things that basically, as you’re telling the story, you can say, you know, you can sort of lean into that. If you don’t fix these things, this is what’s going to happen. And it really start to paint that picture of this is why you need to be paying attention.

20:47
Katie Robbert
And when people start to hear like the doom and gloom or really when you break it down into you’re going to waste a lot of money, you’re going to waste people’s times, then you have their attention, especially if you start with the money piece. So that goes into the clear value proposition for trust insights lies in its ability to mitigate these risks and empower clients to overcome their data challenges. Trust insights enables clients to unlock actionable insights from their data, measure the true impact of marketing campaigns, deliver personalized customer experience at scale, and align marketing initiatives with broader business goals. Okay, so that all makes sense to me. So we know what the risks are. So do we want to dig in further to that? What’s the next step?

21:28
John Wall
Yeah, I think we’re good with that. I mean, it’s just good. The thing that really hit me with that is, you know, the complexity and fragmentation of the data landscape. Like, that’s what we run into all the time. It’s, you’ve got, you know, these five different systems and the data is not coming across. And I. Yeah, when you get down to it, you pretty much have to make a decision. You’re like, okay, we’re either going to hire somebody full time whose whole job is going to be able getting this data in line and order, or you go find somebody who has already done it 50 times, and it’s going to take them one 10th of the time because they’ve called, you know, they’ve climbed the learning curve. So, yeah, that. These are great storybones here, too.

22:01
John Wall
This is, you know, we are laying out the jeopardy of somebody who’s, you know, not able to figure out what’s going on, and then we have, you know, them putting their hero to, you know, hero product to work to get them where they want to go and actually get out of jeopardy. So that one’s solid. The next one after that is emotional choice. You know, every protagonist kind of has a bunch of emotions that affect them as they go through. You know, they. They feel like they’re going to fail or they’re at risk of getting killed or coming up short or whatever. So the question with this one would be, you know, what emotions is the ICP going to have to deal with as dealing with these problems and these pain points? And I love this one, too, because. Right.

22:44
John Wall
This goes right back to that first one of empathy. Right. You know, by getting this list here, this allows us to address all those empathy points at the same time.

22:52
Katie Robbert
So what I captured, and to give the large language model a little bit more direction is said, great. We want to really focus in on these risks and how solving the problems can make the ICP the hero. What emotions will the ICP experience while going through these pain points? So let’s see what happens. The ICP, primarily composed of cmos, vps of marketing, and data focused leaders. This is incredibly helpful. Will likely experience a range of negative emotions as they grapple with the pain points outlined. Frustration and overwhelm, anxiety and uncertainty, dissatisfaction and concern, pressure and stress. Isn’t that truck?

23:31
John Wall
Yeah, we have some customers that have all of those. The single customer.

23:36
Katie Robbert
They’re just multifaceted human beings.

23:39
John Wall
Well, you know, it’s. The good news is that, you know, the pain points are all real, that’s for sure. But, yeah, I don’t know. That was. That hits me pretty hard. I was actually not expecting such an ugly list, and yet.

23:51
Katie Robbert
But that. Your very, like, visceral reaction to this tells me that we’re on track, because you’re like, oh, my God, like, you want to get that emotional reaction, because that’s what gets people to pay attention, you know? And so now you’re like, okay, great, where is this going to go? You know? And that’s exactly what we want to do with good storytelling, is really like, draw people in and be like, oh, my God. Yeah, I see myself in this. And so, you know, it concludes by saying, by addressing these pain points and showcasing how trust insights can alleviate these negative emotions, you can position your company as a trusted partner who empowers marketers to become heroes within their own organization.

24:29
Katie Robbert
This is an important point because the large language model, based on the minimal instruction that I’ve given, picked up on exactly what it is that we do for our customers. We are not the heroes of the story. They are the heroes of their own story. We’re just there to support them and give them all of the tools and techniques that they need to go from point a to point b. So now I’m hooked. Now I need to know what’s going to happen. Tell me more of the story.

24:58
John Wall
Yeah, its interesting, too, isnt it? Because each of those kind of have different buttons to push, right? Like pressure and stress. Well, thats usually pressure from above or financial, the anxiety or uncertainty thats unable to get results. And youre waiting on results to come in that you have no control over. And then frustrated and overwhelmed, like, thats usually technical complexity thats youre not able to get to the bottom of. So every one of those have a different set of levers that you can work as far as. Yeah, talking about this customer’s adventure, which can get crazy. The last two are pretty much in the same boat. The first is purpose. And why are we telling this story? And the big thing with that is it’s the combination of both our need and the audience’s action. So it’s our need.

25:44
John Wall
Now, we know we’re talking about clearly outlined services, but the audience action is we stack this up so that is the answer to where they’re going. So that’s fine. And then it’s. I had to laugh. Cause I had not dug into this framework in like, three or four years. And when I got to the last card is meaning, you know, it’s, what is the, where does it go? And he asked a very simple question, which, as you put it right on there is so what. Yeah, which fits right into today’s show. So that closes it up nicely. Obviously, the purpose is obvious, right? Where we’re using this to get somebody where we want to go. But as far as meaning in the. So what? Where else do you, land with that? What else are you thinking about?

26:26
John Wall
Oh, yeah, we can throw it to the model, too. Let’s look.

26:28
Katie Robbert
I’m going to throw it to the model. That’s the whole point. Because the model, theoretically now has all of the same information that we do. It has the data. It knows the customer, it knows the pain points. It knows what they’re trying to do. It knows the emotions. So now we actually have to turn it into a story. So it says, great. Keeping in mind everything we’ve discussed so far, what do we do with all of this information? What is the so what of this narrative? What data story can we tell our ICP that addresses their pain points and makes them the hero of their story? All right, let’s see what happens. You ready?

27:13
John Wall
Pull the lever. Here we go. No whammies.

27:15
Katie Robbert
No whammies. All right, so let’s see the. So what of this narrative is to empower the ICP to become the heroes of their own data driven success stories. The data you provided reveals a landscape where many marketers are grappling with fragmented data, struggling to measure ROI, and facing challenges in delivering personalized customer experiences. That’s a big sentence. The emotional journey for these marketers is one of frustration, anxiety, dissatisfaction, and pressure. I mean, that sounds pretty on the nose. So far. The data story you can tell your ICP is one of transformation and triumph. I don’t know. The visuals are already coming together in my head. It’s going to be, John, I think you’re going to be riding a tiger or something.

28:01
Katie Robbert
It’s about shifting the narrative from one of the struggle, from one of struggle to one of empowerment, from uncertainty to clarity, and from missed opportunities to measurable success. I would say that’s pretty good. So what this does is it gives us the structure. So let’s say we’re putting. We’re going to take this, and putting it together is like a PowerPoint presentation. This is our outline. This is our structure of how we deliver that information. I know. What do you think so far have? Are we accomplishing the data storytelling? Ask, or is it just kind of getting, are we going too far off?

28:35
John Wall
But I think the thing with this is it does, you know, the ugly first draft is done. Like, you can basically take this and like you said, frame your PowerPoint tech and you’ve got it built. You know, you’ve got it ready to go. And the key is that it’s in the language of the ICP. Right. It’s not written in how we think about these products and look at it from the service provider’s perspective. It’s how the customer is living through it and going with it. So, yeah, no, I think this is great. This is the kind of thing, because now you just cut and paste this and you can kind of get down to work with the ugliest, most grunt work part of it done.

29:10
Katie Robbert
So, number one, I think I am going to include some of this information on our website because actually kind of good. And then I’m saying, great. Can you outline this narrative with the assumption that we need to pull to put all of this information into a slide deck? And so ideally it would be like, okay, slide one. This, slide two this, because you can ask for those directions and it should give it to you. And so here we go. Slide one, title, slide two. And it actually gives you the bullet points. Slide three, and so on and so forth. And so now I’ve taken all of our ICPS data. I’ve taken all of their marketing data. I’ve taken, you know, we’ve gone through, John, you’ve gone through the questions of what is the story we’re telling? What are the risks?

29:53
Katie Robbert
And now the language model is outlined, a slide deck for us based on all of this information. So what we would do to your point is we would just copy and paste it in, make sure it makes sense. And like, here you go. These are things that you can do over and over again. And, you know, it’s funny because people are like, oh, I use generative AI. It’s sort of like cheating. All we did, like, it was still our data. We still had to do the legwork. All it did was expedite how you get from I have a lot of data to what’s the story I need to tell my client.

30:23
John Wall
Yeah. And the big thing, though, is it’s correctly trained, right. It was trained on the ICP. It was trained on our marketing campaign data. You’ve got a bunch of stuff that keeps the, keeps it on the rails and makes it effective, because otherwise you’re just kind of turning the crank on whatever’s out there on the Internet, which isn’t the same thing.

30:43
Katie Robbert
So what do you think? I’m tired after the hero’s journey.

30:46
John Wall
Yeah, this is it. No, we’ve reached the finish line. I think we’ve got the story we want to tell, and we would love to hear if people have any other comments on that or want to play more with any of this stuff, because we’ve had a lot of success with clients who take the ICP and, you know, start changing the way they’re doing business. And again, it can take a lot of the pain out of this process. So it’s worth doing.

31:07
Katie Robbert
Yeah. So if you want to learn more about getting your own version of an ICP or some sort of data storytelling narrative like this based on your ICP, you can give us a shout trustinsights AI contact or, and or you can join our free Slack group analytics for marketers. Every day we’re asking questions, we’re helping people, just having general discussion. It’s free to sign up. And so I think for this week, John, I think we have concluded our journey.

31:35
John Wall
Our hero’s journey is complete. Safe to go. Go grab a iced cold beverage.

31:41
Katie Robbert
Sounds good. Till next week, John, you’ve been listening to marketing over coffee.

31:47
John Wall
Christopher Penn [email protected] read more from John J.

31:53
Katie Robbert
Wall at JW 5150 dot the marketing over coffee theme song is called Melo G by funk masters, and you can find it at musicale from Mevio. Or follow the link in our show notes.

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