Episode 320 features Wafa Ghnaim, a Senior Research Fellow at The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Curator for the Museum of the Palestinian People and Founder of The Tatreez Institute, alongside Dr. Tanveer Ahmed, a Senior Lecturer in Fashion and Race at Central Saint Martins and also Course Development Lead for MA Fashion and Anthropology at London College of Fashion.

“Inherently, just by being Palestinian and by teaching about Palestinian life and history, and including oral history in my work as a foundational aspect of my research, I am threatening these kinds of structures, in and of itself. And so, simply my existence is resisting that colonialism and the normalization of destruction and death of Palestinian bodies.” -Wafa

“Translating lots of decolonial thought around the canon and Eurocentrism and what shapes our ideas of art and design is really crucial to understand how we then deconstruct the canon. It’s not just a question about changing reading lists or to me, about representation and bringing in more Black and Brown academics into our institutions, although that is part of the equation. I think what we need to do and what I think is the most important role for me is to undue the harms that coloniality has done to our disciplines and within our institutions.” -Tanveer 

APRIL THEME — COMING TOGETHER TO BUILD A BETTER FASHION FUTURE

Decolonizing fashion, intersectionality, identifying the knowledge holders, cultural inheritance and systems change were some of the key themes we explored in this week’s episode. We take a look at some of the areas that fashion educators are dismantling when it comes to heteronormative and Eurocentric views on fashion education and design. And how this knowledge can translate from the classroom or across cultural communities into practical ways. Building off of our last episode, we question – what are the biggest challenges we still face and how can we work toward more transformation? 

We learn from one of our guests that this focus and lens on decolonising fashion where marginalization and othering is built into the foundation, is very different to the offerings of cultural preservation, which holistically exists to share lived experience, pass over craft practice, history, culture and honor the hands and bodies of the people at the center of this. As our guest shares, what else is there if we cannot honor the people preserving culture. Fashion as it exists, still has a ways to go in embracing this at its roots, but our guests give us hope as they move through the world, sharing their wisdom and truth, and teaching us the meaning of how to be good custodians and stewards, so we can uphold this legacy with care and intention and continue to center Indigenous craft, culture and practice. 

Links from the conversation:

• Tatreez & Tea Website

• Tanveer’s Work Profile

• Follow Wafa (@tatreezandtea) on Instagram

Episode 319 features guests Stella Hertantyo, the co-host of the Conscious Style Podcast, alongside Emily Stochl, the host and creator of Pre-Loved Podcast.

Stella also works as writer and communications coordinator, while Emily also works as the Vice President of Advocacy & Community Engagement at Remake.

“There are so many painful roots when you look back at the way that certain dyes came about and you know, cotton farming — there are so many different legacies of colonialism that existed and still exist. But I also want to take the word painful out of that sentence and say that we have also learned to acknowledge the roots of sustainability because not all of them have pain at the center. And I think what I've learned with so much interest and joy is the different textile heritages that exist across the continent — from natural dyes to hand looming to the ways that people grow certain crops, and yeah, just different ways of expressing and using textiles as ways to archive and also to preserve culture. And there are so many people that do this incredible work and I think that that is a really, really important acknowledgment that I had to come to realize in my own journey.” -Stella

“Labor rights are the foundation of what we know to be fashion activism in general, if we think back to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, which I know that something here in the United States, folks maybe learn about in school. This was another fashion industry-related disaster that led to a swath of movement-building around how we advocate for safer workplaces for people working inside the fashion industry. You know, roots to International Women’s Day, roots to some of the labor protections that we know and understand today, like the 40-hour work week. These are all things that if you look at the fashion industry from a history perspective, labor and the fashion industry, it is totally intertwined.” -Emily

APRIL THEME — COMING TOGETHER TO BUILD A BETTER FASHION FUTURE

Whether it’s legislation, science research & innovation, transformation in language, the storytelling tools & platforms in which we use to communicate, the evolution of definitions, the popularization of the second hand economy or labor rights advocacy – so much has changed within the sustainable fashion movement over the last decade. 

This week, we really put our new round table format to work. We dissect the sustainable fashion industry through a timeline of events, paying homage to Fashion Revolution Day – a movement that, in conjunction with many others, has brought more mobilization and change to the space. Join the four of us – all podcasters & storytellers – for this expansive breakdown.

Links from the conversation:

• “What Is Extended Producer Responsibility in Textiles — and What’s Missing From Current Policies?”, article on Conscious Life & Style by Stella

• Become a Good Ancestor Podcast by Layla Saad (mentioned by Stella)

• Conscious Style Podcast Website

• Pre-Loved Podcast Website

• Follow Stella on Instagram

• Follow Conscious Style Podcast on Instagram

• Follow Emily on Instagram

• Follow Remake on Instagram

*DISCLAIMER — this episode features stories connected to eating disorders and sexual abuse. 

Episode 318 features guests Francisco Alcazar, a zero waste designer based in Los Angeles, California, alongside Ella Wiznia, the founder and designer of Series NY.

Using his 25 years experience as a structural engineer, Francisco is leading the movement that promotes circularity in fashion, and expanding these principles to other disciplines, whilst celebrating the material stories of each textile and the individuality they represent. A New York based brand of ethically made genderless clothing and accessories, Series NY makes every piece in NY in partnership with skilled artisans who set their own rates using only pre-existing and sustainable materials.

“What I like about upcycling is the freedom that it gives you. When you’re upcycling, you actually remix, rework, reuse. And in the process of doing that, the power is back to you. What I mean by that is when we go to a secondhand shop, all the clothes there are mixed up. You have the power to choose — there is no trend, there is no fashion. And the good thing is it’s hard because you have to deal with your inner ‘what you actually like’. And some people follow trends because the process of learning about you is hard. It’s easy to just conform and follow trends, you know, you go to magazines and copy a trend. You don’t have to actually learn about yourself anymore.” -Francisco

“Fashion kind of seems to be one of the only forms of art that is quote unquote gendered in most peoples’ minds. I mean, you don’t go into an art gallery and say ‘oh no, this is for men; no, that piece is for a girl’ — you know, it’s just not how it’s done. Or architecture — ‘no, this building was for this these types of people’. We’re all able to experience them how we want.” -Ella

MARCH THEME — Acknowledging The Confines of Gender & The Folks Disrupting Stereotypes

The fashion industry can often be described as frivolous with labels, stereotypes and binaries boxing us in – telling us how we need to dress and what identities are deemed quote unquote ‘acceptable’, which can create spaces that are harmful, toxic and void of any sort of individuality and uniqueness – it can often be a place where difference in not celebrated but rather hidden.

This week, our incredible guests share the power that upcycling has in being a paintbrush to the art you wish to create and see in the world - a world where the gender binary is challenged, where we go against ultra fashion trends, and have the permission to dress freely without societal bias and prejudice. We hear how pain can be the source of our purpose, and how textiles and materials are the vehicle in this journey of pride, play and personal empowerment.

We explore the origins of gender-based crafts, the passing over of traditional skills and techniques, and how our guests are challenging the confines of gender stereotypes through reimagining materiality.

Links from the conversation:

• Lynden B. Miller (artist that Ella mentions)

• Fran’s Website

• Series NY Website

• Follow Francisco on Instagram

• Follow Series NY on Instagram

Episode 317 features guests Megan L. Schnitker, an Indigenous Traditional Herbalist and Niha Elety, a fashion advocate, designer, chef, and storyteller.

Megan is the owner of Lakota Made LLC, who offer plant medicinals and personal care products. Niha is the founder and CEO of fashion brand, Tega Collective, a brand that co-creates with Adivasi (Indigenous) communities celebrating their craft and knowledge with each collection.

“American herbalism was founded on Indigenous knowledge and use of all the plants that are in North America. And so, American herbalism is founded on Indigenous women’s knowledge, Indigenous storytellers’ knowledge. And we’re very rarely credited for giving colonizers that knowledge. I credit the herbalists that saved a lot of that knowledge and are using it and kept it alive, but it came from Indigenous people, it came from Indigenous women, it came from Indigenous medicine; it came from us.” -Megan

“The history of fashion production for centuries has been by women primarily. I’m from India, so in India, there’s large groups of artisans and garment workers and weavers, and a majority of the population that are in those kinds of professions are women. And over the years, I would say with the industrialization of textile production and all of that, men often became the heads of big fashion companies that we see today. So, a lot of them have profited from knowledge that a lot of female artisans and designers have been creating for a long time.” -Niha

MARCH THEME — Acknowledging The Confines of Gender & The Folks Disrupting Stereotypes

One of the recurring themes our incredibly powerful guests shared this week is that for true sustainability to exist, we must go beyond commodification and capitalism to focus on consent, compensation, credit, collaboration and co-creation where the individual human is valued and respected, and where preserving culture is at the forefront. 

We question things like ownership and agency, and the power dynamics that play into who gets to decide what is deemed “fashion” or “medicine”. Who are the knowledge holders in fashion, wellness, herbalism & health spaces? Whose knowledge do we value? And what are the deep rooted reasons our society often doesn’t give credit to certain genders and their intersectionalities? 

We learn that craft and wellness are embedded into the wisdom and intuitive ways of life for Indigenous people and cultures, from the Adivasi communities in South Asia to Indigenous people like the Lakota here in the U.S. And that by design, the erasure and extraction of female knowledge, the matriarchs of so many cultures, is a constant struggle. 

The solution is more than just words, it’s the actions and uplifting and amplifying of Indigenous peoples, and the honoring of traditional ways that have real potential to impact systemic change. It’s also in slowing down our everyday interactions and the way we share information and knowledge, in a way where we actually respect and pay homage to the origins of ideas. 

NOTE: Megan had to jump off our call to make it to her child’s parent teacher conference, so we weren’t able to hear her thoughts on our last question during the episode. We were thankful that she was able to send through her ideas on “how to slow down when everything feels fast” so we can share them with you here:

I take time at least one day a week or one morning a week. I have nothing scheduled and I clean my house so I can sit in a clean house in silence.  I sit there and look at all my family pictures on the walls, family that's passed on, good times, and sad times and I practice gratitude. Gratitude for everything I have, everything I receive and for the moments that brought me this far. If it's warm out (my fibromyalgia doesn’t like cold), I'll go outside and drink a cup of tea or coffee in my backyard and listen to the sounds of nature, and just sit and practice gratitude for everything that brought me to that moment. I sit with the chaos of my kiddos and I smile and thank the universe / Tunkasila for sending me these amazing beings I get to mother, I thank my girls all the time for being who they are and teaching me so much and also bringing so much value to my life; without them, the motivation wouldn't be there. Before bedtime, I read my girls books, and as I read them this story, I cherish the moments before sleep and thank the universe for keeping me here and getting me here. -Megan

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• Lakota Made Website

• Niha’s Website

• Tega Collective’s Website

• Follow Lakota Made on Instagram

• Follow Niha on Instagram

Episode 316 features guests Lina Barkawi, a Tatreez practitioner, preservationist, and educator based in Brooklyn, alongside Eman Toom, a Palestinian Tatreez artist, teacher, sewer and crafter.

“Part of just doing tatreez, in my personal opinion, is a form of resistance because we’re basically just existing and we’re showing our Palestinian identity, but there have also been very explicit uses of tatreez as a form of resistance. And so you have thobes that came out of the intifadas in the ‘90s where the flag was banned and so these are very explicit uses of tatreez where they would stitch literally the Palestinian flag. Or different motifs, like new motifs that came out of representing national identity and things like that. So, I just wanted to mention that because there have been very explicit forms of resistance, but I think the more subtle ways is kind of where Eman and I are playing a very big role in — is thinking about how do we help just bring more Palestinians into this art form and help them reclaim this art form and use it, because just by doing that, no matter what your color preferences are, whatever your background is, that is just in and of itself a form of resistance against an occupier.” -Lina

“The technique and the skill that you’re using to create these motifs — it is at its simplest form, a form of cross stitch. There’s other forms of tatreez, but for the most part, it is that. But what I try to always remind people is that tatreez is so much more than that, in the sense that it is a record of our history. You know, the more that we study Palestinian embroidery, the more that we’re studying tatreez, the more that we’re studying the history of Palestine at the same time. You can’t have one without the other, they go hand in hand.” -Eman

When we think about sustainability, what’s the first thing that comes to mind? Perhaps curbing our addiction to consumption, mass manufacturing, and circular materials. But what about cultural sustainability, craft, connection to ancestral land, and challenging colonization through continuing to uplift centuries old traditions? 

In this week's episode we learn from our guests about how Tatreez inherently IS sustainability. The motifs and symbols embroidered on cloth are a language of symbols documenting spaces in time, they tell stories of nature, the flora and fauna around the Women making them. We learn that the hand made process is the antithesis to homogeneous fashion - it is slow, considered and truly one of a kind.  

In 2021 the art of embroidery in Palestine was recognized by UNESCO as an important intangible cultural heritage - an artform that connects the Palestinian people to their roots. Preserving culture is inherently and naturally, as our guests share - sustainability. It needs no labels, or commodifying - it is made up of the everyday rituals, traditions, craft and practices that celebrate identity.  

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• “The Land In Our Bones” by Layla K. Feghali, book Kestrel brings up briefly 

• Lina’s Landing Page

• Listen to Tatreez Talk (Lina’s new podcast)

• Eman’s Website

• Follow Lina on Instagram

• Follow Eman on Instagram

Episode 315 features guests Amy Denet Deal, the founder of 4Kinship, a Diné (Navajo) owned sustainable artwear brand, alongside Sha’Mira Covington, Ph.D., an interdisciplinary scholar-artist and Assistant Professor in Fashion.

“Thinking about sustainability beyond just the textiles, thinking about the land that we’re on, how we can live in reciprocity with the people, the four-legged relatives, everything, the plants, the animals here — in all the work we do. Which is why community focus is so much part of what I consider sustainability ‘cause everyone should be thriving from what we do — not just the brand, not just a couple people, everything around needs to be in that harmony.” -Amy

“I’m very much so motivated by truth. We, as a society, have gotten really deep in the business of pretending, pretending that things are ok and they are not. We, as as society, are very spiritually unwell, yet we continue to go on as business as usual. This facade of sorts keeps me up and the performative untruths we have to tell ourselves every day to function in this society is very unsettling to me. This motivates me to be a seeker of truth, to better connect to myself, to nature and to other people.” -Sha’Mira

In this week's episode, we explore the topic of INTERGENERATIONAL KNOWLEDGE IN FASHION & TEXTILES. To say this episode was healing, would be an understatement. 

We talk about how we can learn from the trees, and the sky and the land that we walk on each day. What Black and Brown Indigenous cultures teach us about truth-telling, and the unlearning and relearning of traditional ways. We also explore how community circles are a solution to creating more social impact and better connections … with one another, with our four legged relatives, and the natural world around us. 

This episode teaches us how to live in reciprocity, and how fashion is more than just aesthetics; it’s about the upholding of cultural practices, and the amplifying of intergenerational knowledge and traditions. In order for these to live on, we all must actively participate in honoring and respecting and appreciating them – not appropriating them. 

We all have a responsibility to take part in challenging systems to better heal the planet and its Indigenous cultures who have always been the inherent teachers of these connected ways of life. We can’t wait for you to listen and learn from our guests this week who are the holders of so much wisdom, knowledge and truth.

Tune in as we contextualize our February theme – Sharing Textile Knowledge Across Generations.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• Water Protectors by Carole Lindstrom, children’s book Kestrel mentions 

• Images above are from Sha’Mira’s recent installation at the Fashion for Good Museum in Amsterdam, Netherlands, entitled Curative: Confronting and Healing the Fashion-industrial Complex

• 4Kinship currently has 2 fundraisers active for their community initatives: 1) Text SKATEINBEAUTY to 707070 to help them deliver skateboards on Navajo Nation with Diné Skate Garden Project

  2) Text ILLUMINATE to 707070 to help amplify and elevate Indigenous creatives with 4KINSHIP INDIGENOUS FUTURES FUND

• 4Kinship’s Website

• Sha’Mira’s Website

• Follow 4Kinship on Instagram

• Follow Sha’Mira on Instagram

In episode 314, you’ll hear our first official roundtable format, featuring guests Beth Jones, YouTube star and creator of B. Jones Style, alongside Dounia Wone, the Chief Impact Officer at Vestiaire Collective, a platform that showcases luxury preloved fashion.

“It’s few and far between that the fast fashion holds up against vintage or really quality pieces maybe made by a designer or things like that … Even if it has a vintage look to it, there’s something about it that doesn’t hold up in a way. And honestly, I will be a little bummed. It’s Zara. I’d rather have the old Kathys of California blazer or dress. I end up not being excited about it, so often, I just go with something else instead.” -Beth

“Vestiaire is a 15 year old company. Our founders really believed in fighting overconsumption and overproduction back then in Paris … When I went to them and said ‘ok, let’s ban fast fashion,’ they were completely in … what we want is that it will educate the consumers on our platform. What we were looking at is the behavior … what we saw for the last year was actually people are staying on the platform, 70% of the people who were impacted by the ban stayed on the platform and actually reinvested more and bought less.” -Dounia

JANUARY THEME — Fast Fashion, Consumption & Why Self Work Is Integral To Changemaking

When we talk about the messes of the fashion industry, a recurring theme we circle back to is – OVERPRODUCTION – especially with regard to fast fashion. Whether you’re super interested in sustainability and fashion or you’re new to the conversation, most people today are coming to the basic conclusion that fast fashion is problematic, due to its incessant mass production.

There has been a lot of commentary over the last 7 years, about I guess, the questioning of our moral compass, when it comes to how we shop for fast fashion. What do I mean by that? Let’s break it down. 

We know that fast fashion is everywhere, and that so much of our clothing ends up in charity shops, where sadly, a great deal of it is destined for landfill. 

• So, to address this cycle, does it make sense to buy fast fashion from the secondhand economy? Can we then prevent these clothes from ending up in landfills? 

It’s not that simple.

Other questions come up like –

• “If we adopt the same shopping behaviors in the secondhand economy as we have with fast fashion, what really changes? Where do we draw the line?”

Or

• Aren’t we just encouraging the fast fashion industry to churn out more *stuff* to feed the overproducing system it has generated?

In this week's episode, we chat with two incredible powerhouse women from very different realms of the fashion industry. They each contribute so much to helping dissect this tension – 

• We explore the layers of responsibility we hold as everyday individuals

• The power organizations hold in enacting change

• And how lobbying and legislation is an integral part of fashioning a better future for fashion. 

We also discuss the power of personal style and how we can all start shifting our buying behavior by ‘Always Playing Dress Up’. Sound familiar? One of our guests coined that very phrase.

Tune in as we dive deeper into our January theme – Fast Fashion, Consumption & Why Self Work Is Integral To Changemaking. 

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• “Not-So-Fast Fashion: Embracing Responsible Consumption Through Online Activism”, article by Dounia that Nat mentions

• B. Jones Style Website

• Vestiaire Collective Website

• Beth’s YouTube

• Follow Beth on TikTok

• Follow Vestiaire on TikTok

• Follow Beth on Instagram

• Follow Dounia on Instagram

• Follow Vestiaire Collective on Instagram

In episode 313, you’ll hear from co-hosts (yes, co-hosts!) Kestrel Jenkins and Natalie Shehata in the launch of Season 7. This is also the first episode in which Kestrel and Nat showcase their new co-host dynamic. With this powerful community-driven change, they’ve teamed up to reimagine some aspects of the show. Here’s what you can expect this season:

• Roundtable Discussions — featuring at least 2 guests per episode

• Focus On Making The Conversation More Circular — bringing more folks to the table to learn from various voices at the same time

• Monthly Themes — we’ll hone in on a specific topic each month

• Bi-Weekly Episodes — expect to hear 2 episodes per month, instead of the previous 4 because, slow media :)

JANUARY THEME — FAST FASHION, CONSUMPTION & WHY SELF WORK IS INTEGRAL TO CHANGEMAKING

Do you remember episode 303 when we talked about slow media and telling stories through love, not labor? In our kickoff to the new season, we decided to go deeper into this love-not-labor concept – to explore what it really means and how this approach directly relates to sustainable fashion. 

Pulling back a little further – our focus of this show is Self Work. But what does this really mean? In general, it gets aligned with the idea of self improvement. Across the fashion media landscape and socials lately, we’ve seen a heightened interest in looking inward to question what you really want out of your life. Why? Well, it’s the time for annual resolutions, as we just celebrated the launch of a new year.

And with that – in sustainable fashion lately, there’s been a lot of commentary about how things need to be reimagined across the industry, with folks voicing different approaches to achieve larger scalable transformation. At the same time, it feels like the movement needs to have a more organic approach and not be so defined or limited – because as it stands, sustainability is so different to each of us, and in order to cultivate a space that is truly diverse, we all need to be at the table to provide our unique approaches. 

But whether or not we’re at the table, in order to take any sort of action, we need to go back to the beginning and tune into ourselves. When was the last time you questioned your values? What do you truly care about? Until we are clear on these aspects within ourselves, how can we live out these values and put them into practice? 

Therein lies the crux of what we break down in this week's show. 

Find more notes at www.ConsciousChatter.com.

In episode 312, Kestrel welcomes Denali Jöel, a non-binary Multidisciplinary Artist, Designer, Educator and Fashion Griot, to the show. Born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica, Denali has been an asylee living in the US since 2014, recently obtaining their U.S. citizenship this year. Their art praxis intersects design, performance, media and community engagement with particular focus on queer identities and Afro-diasporan histories, futures, collective healing, and radical imagination. 

“It comes back to us as an individual but also as a collective to recognize that we need to shift our own relationship to fashion and with fashion as a tool for the ways in which that we show up, the ways in which we disrupt our own oppression. I think we place so much emphasis on calling out and asking industry to do better and I’m just like — the industry is actually operating the way it’s supposed to, like it was built. Again, when you think about whose imagination we are living in, that is the imagination. And so, when we force folks to shift, are we just bullying them into performing a version of change or is it possible that we could create new ecosystems within our own selves — and using the resources available to us — but creating that shift and slowly moving away from industry and start thinking more about ecosystems.” -Denali

This is THE FINAL EPISODE of Season 6. Launched in February of 2022, this season has taken us on a journey – and here we are, arriving at the 52nd episode of this era of Conscious Chatter.

Over the last two years on the show, we have questioned so much of how the fashion industry operates, and really dove into unique ways that individuals, companies and initiatives are working to basically unlearn *the way fashion has been done* and relearn new ways of reimagining its future. 

This final episode of the season feels really important to me – as it’s the last show that will be oriented in this way. As Nat and I have teased a bit here and there, we have a fresh approach to Conscious Chatter coming to you with Season 7. :)

But with this immense feeling of wanting to culminate Season 6 in an extra meaningful and circular way, I sat and questioned for quite some time who could provide that sort of grounding presence. When I thought of this week’s guest, I felt instantly at ease and an all-encompassing feeling of warmth and hope surrounded me. They were the person that could help us close out this season. It may sound a bit airy fairy, but this episode feels like a massive hug to me – I hope you feel it too.

In today’s world, we hear the word INTENTIONAL thrown around a lot. It’s one of those words that has taken hold in recent years and become a go-to. While we see its use on a consistent basis, I’m not entirely sure whether we’re seeing its meaning carried out in practice.

What is the definition of INTENTIONAL?

According to Dictionary.com, it is defined as: done with intention or on purpose.

In order to do something with intention, there is almost undoubtedly a need to slow down and become more present and tuned into that process. As we know, slowing down is not really something the systems around us are advocating for. 

But that doesn’t mean there aren’t folks out there truly taking the meaning of intentionality to heart and very thoughtfully putting it into practice. 

I say it in our chat, but I’ll say it again – this week’s guest takes intentionality to the extreme, in the most beautiful way. They also consistently resist the systems around us by working to reimagine their own approaches and value indicators outside of the vacuum as much as possible.

For example, they approach fashion and costume design as an art praxis that is rooted in intentionality, sustainability and social equity, and that is guided by three Afro-Indigenous philosophies. 

Instead of commodifying it, they have and continue to use fashion as a tool to slowly further discover themself. But what I love about how they communicate is they are not only talking about themself as an individual, but also being a Black Queer person, they are telling stories as a part of a larger community of intersections, brimming with collective histories, present circumstances and collective futures.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• “The more I matured, the more I realized that external validation was very fickle and fleeting. And so, it came now to — when I look in the mirror, do the clothes that I wear, does my appearance uplift and reverence the divine feminine and the divine masculine that lives within me?” -Denali (25:07)

• “Because of me and my own intersections, the work that I do is constantly in conversation with who I am and my positionality in society — the areas within which I feel marginalized and also the areas within which I feel liberated. And so, I want to ensure that I’m making space for that and holding the past, the present, and the future within me. And so, being a griot is essentially that — it’s acting as an archive, as a vanguard of sorts, you know protecting and advancing the stories of who I am as an individual but also as a collective body — centering and amplifying the Black femme, shifting the balance to us recognizing that Queer folks, especially those at the intersection of being Black and Queer are diviners historically — reclaiming all of that. And so, being a griot was important to me because like you said, I’m a storyteller and I think it hit me when I realized the vicissitudes I’ve had to survive in my life are to kind of give me and provide me with all of these stories — these stories that again, through the Ubuntu principle are not just for me, but they’re for the collective, they’re for everyone.” -Denali (31:52)

• “Parable Of The Sower”, book by Octavia E. Butler that Denali references connected to their upcoming project in collaboration with The New Children’s Museum in San Diego, CA

• “I think we talk a lot about diversity, equity and inclusion, but we don’t talk about belonging. And belonging invites us to think holistically about the space — tactile — what does it feel like? What does it smell like? What does it taste like even when we enter the space, and is it familiar to those of us who have always felt as though we’ve existed outside of these spaces?” -Denali (44:53)

• “Songs Of The Gullah” — a fashion film by Denali

• Denali’s Website

• Follow Studio Asa >

• Follow Denali on Instagram >

In episode 311, Kestrel welcomes Julius Tillery, founder of BlackCotton, to the show.  A 5th-generation cotton farmer from North Carolina, Julius founded BlackCotton to help center and uplift the Black community closest to the cotton fields in Northampton County, North Carolina.

“There’s so many demons and like bad spirits and bad tropes around cotton and the industry in general, and you know, just coming from the South, and people having these perspectives of cotton production relating to slavery — I felt like people was making these notions about cotton and not really knowing anything about cotton. And I wanted to start educating people about the cotton business, and even myself and how people like myself — how we end up in cotton. Families that work in cotton like, what was their value-in working in this type of production? And I wanted to change that outlook to make it look more stronger and prestigious than what was assumed.” -Julius

About 6 episodes back, we had a chat with the brilliant leader and self-proclaimed solutionist Tameka Peoples of Seed2Shirt. This episode was deeply focused on the work Tameka is doing to rebuild equitable and just cotton systems & foster the reclamation of cotton acreage for Black farmers.

It’s a really important show that helps provide some of the historical context around cotton in the United States, as well as ways that Tameka and her team are working to reimagine new systems for cotton.

When guests lead to new guests, I like to acknowledge that because it’s a beautiful thing. So, thanks to Tameka and our interactions, I was led to this week’s guest – Julius Tillery.

This week’s guest was raised amongst cotton fields – growing the fiber is something that runs deep throughout his ancestry. As a 5th generation cotton farmer, he has followed in the footsteps of generations before, but – with a twist.  

Known to many as the Puff Daddy of Cotton, he has approached the cotton industry with a focus on remixing what the business looks like today. As a young person, he saw the imminent need to rebrand cotton, and to help expand the narrative around the fiber away from the harmful alignment it often has with simply being a poor man’s crop.  

Julius shares more about how he’s reimagining what a cotton farmer’s business model can look like today, how he’s creating alternative revenue streams, he reveals some of the financial challenges farmers face, and tells us how he was able to actually turn fiber from his family’s plants into fashion.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• “And I think that’s what really makes us to the sustainability component of clothing and sustainable world in general — is this is actually real stuff that comes off a real farm — and I make it culturally and I make it about environmental where it’s coming from a Black community from Black people that’s growing cotton in an area, in a time period that we used to be oppressed by this crop, but actually now we’re trying to control it and make it something that we can be proud of and uplifting our community. I hope that in my community I stand as a symbol of pride and of strength, being a farmer, instead of somebody who was oppressed.” -Julius (10:22)

• “What I’m doing with my farm is trying to show pride in being a farmer, and that’s moreso than just culturally — that’s just all of the industry and environmentalism. Like, we have to have more respect for the resources that we create with our planet, so that we don’t waste them, so that we don’t have to have bad resources come back to us. I’m really into like — why are we importing so many products when people need jobs here in America, people need jobs here in the Western Hemisphere — how can we connect dots so we don’t have to ship stuff all across the world?” -Julius (15:22)

• “Cultivating distress: cotton, caste and farmer suicides in India”, research article that highlights the distressing statistics around cotton farmers and suicide (something that Kestrel brings up on the show) — “Nearly 4,00,000 farmers committed suicide in India between 1995 and 2018. This translates into approximately 48 suicides every day.”

• “I feel like it’s important that as much as possible, we find ways to support sustainable so there’s a reason for it to be in the marketplace.” -Julius (19:27)

• “And that’s the only way we gonna be sustainable is these big companies see purpose in dealing with such small companies like myself. I hope that things can change but you know, I’m really being real about who we are in regards to what’s the culture of the industry we in. Cause I’m so much smaller than the cotton farmers I’m around but that allows me to make decisions and be someone who can think more efficiently and more lean.” -Julius (20:05)

• “With urban agriculture and the growth of farmer’s markets all across the country, I believe there’s people seeing the value and worth of growing their own foods and products. So there’s so many people that want to learn to grow their own food and products. So many people want to learn about the business of foods and products. I believe there’s new energy around agriculture and it’s a constantly growing industry right now. And I think that the way our education system has been set up for many years, and even right now — it’s set up to disadvantage agriculture, like it’s telling you not to go into it. Like our college prepatories teaching you to be a doctor, a lawyer, some type of high white-collar job / professional, but I think there’s a lot of things in pop culture, I believe there’s a lot of living arrangements right now that’s bringing new energy to people that grow outdoors. The new look of a farmer is a lot more updated than 30, 40 years ago. You know, farmers are aging, but then there’s young farmers coming in that’s using the internet and really out here networking and connecting, and so there’s a tide turning.” -Julius (30:15)

• “I like to compare myself as an ant to the whole cotton industry, the cotton jungle. Ants make mounds, and before long, there’s more mounds than you can count.” -Julius (32:16)

• “Rewriting The Story Of Cotton” in Our State 

• “Meet The Puff Daddy Of Cotton”, Human Footprint episode on PBS that features Julius

• BlackCotton Website

• Follow BlackCotton on Facebook >

• Follow BlackCotton on Instagram >

In episode 310, Kestrel and Natalie welcome Cassandra Pintro, the founder of The Consumption Project, to the show. With a focus on making impact cool, The Consumption Project serves as a catalyst for educating folks about the impact of their buying habits and nurturing a collective mindset that values quality, longevity, and the environment.

“So, it was — how do I find myself in this space and how do I make space that opens up a door for other people to feel comfortable, and you’re starting from a place that is kind of like a blank slate. And I really felt that sustainability was the right vehicle to tell that story and really get back to basics if you will, cause that is really what, in my mind, consumption is about — it’s about people telling you what you need to have vs what you actually need to have or what you might even want for yourself vs what you’re thinking you want for yourself.” -Cassandra

You have probably heard us talk about consumption on the show – it tends to be a recurring theme that weaves its way into the majority of our conversions, in one way or another. While there are so many issues contributing to fashion’s inequitable systems, consumption (fueled by overproduction) is a very significant piece of the overarching puzzle. 

And while it may not always feel this way – our consumption is something that we actually have some sort of control over.

Do you feel like you are tuned into your consumption habits? Are you aware of what you buy and why you buy it? Do you regularly question what is *enough* for you? 

Maybe some of these resonate, or maybe you haven’t asked yourself these questions before. Either way, we all have more work to do when it comes to tuning into our buying behaviors. Considering the capitalistic world that we live in, where more is regularly touted as the best option, it can be challenging to turn off all the pro-consumption marketing noise around us, constantly telling us that we need to buy something else to be better. 

This week’s guest realized that she wanted to challenge herself to be ok with what she already has – to embrace what was currently in her closet as enough. As an associate production manager at a fashion publication – one many would say is the holy grail of fashion magazines — her decision to stop consuming fashion items for a year felt nothing less than iconic.

Leading by example, this week’s guest decided to open up her personal consumption journey and welcome others in, to join her in the process. She created a safe space where folks are opening up about the oxymoronic realities of their unique journeys. The honest dialogue she’s cultivating allows us to feel like we’re a part of something bigger, yet without the need to performatively appear perfect. Because when you’re grappling with consumption, failure of some sort is expected and should be embraced as an educational tool, not defeat. 

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• “I felt like I couldn’t keep going down that path without challenging the space that I’m in, and it was a really big part of the early mission of Consumption Project — there were a couple different things that were really important to me, but one of them being that it needed to feel like something that was easy and accessible (accessibility is huge to me), it needed to feel like something that people could do unconsciously without it feeling like they are a climate expert, which is also really important for me as well. I really wanted to do something that didn’t position me in a place for people to think that that’s what I was, because I feel like that’s unfair to people who are actively in this space and have been in it a lot longer and know numbers and statistics a lot more than I do. And I really wanted to do something that felt like it was talking to my community, first and foremost — my friends — and saying ok, if I’m at step 3 and you’re at step 0 or 1, maybe I can at least just hold your hand and be a vehicle to making you think a little bit more consciously.” -Cassandra (16:35)

• “I’m not perfect at it yet, it’s a very new thing. And I think the thing that I was most willing to do with Consumption Project is fail or get it wrong out loud and in real time with my audience and showing them that if I, somebody who works in a place that is considered almost an authority of our industry — 1) if I can gain their support to even talk about this initiative that I’m trying to do, that’s incredible and that’s a step forward and then 2) while I still am somebody existing in that space, if I can fail in front of people, I think it gives them a little bit more space to feel like they can too.” -Cassandra (37:04)

• “Why I (a Fashion-Lover) Am Giving Up Fashion — For Now”, article by Cassandra in Vogue

• Consumption Project Website

• Follow The Consumption Project on Instagram >

• Follow Cassandra on Instagram >