Sunita Viswanath – (Photo by Eugene Gologursky/Getty Images for Afghan Women)

My guest is Sunita Viswanath. She is a life-long organizer and activist, a founder of a nation-wide activist organization, and a Hindu. In New York City, you’ll always see Sunita in the demonstrations for immigration right’s, Black Lives Matter, & against climate change. And she is also a member of the Strategy Team for the Micah Institute (a multi-faith justice coalition). This year, she received the Micah Spirit award for her work in New York City.

Much of her work is among the Hindu community – mostly concerning the caste system. As a founder of Sadhana, a US-wide progressive Hindu organization, she and fellow members are involved in Hindu community and faith-based justice work in many US cities.

Our conversation went deep into the difficulty of organizing as a Hindu in the broad coalitions of progressive activism in the US and of organizing among Hindus in the US to participate in broader struggles here, and to begin the process of eliminating the caste system, which brands certain people as Dalits, or “untouchables”. This social system, which is practiced throughout India and some other Hindu areas, also labels some people as Brahmans, the highest caste, and everything in between. All of this leads to generational poverty on a mass scale in India.

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Nichola Torbett

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A month ago, I was in the San Francisco Bay Area for my sort-of-annual visit to the place where I lived for 37 years, to connect with lots of old friends. As usual, I attended the church where I had been a member for a long time before leaving for New York City, First Congregational Church of Oakland.  You may have seen an article about them in the Washington Post. My old congregation is, as we speak, going through the soul searching and preparation to wean themselves from using the police to solve problems that may come up in the building – or as my guest on this program, Nichola Torbett puts it, “We will no longer outsource our violence.”

Lately, it seems that often when people call for police help to take care of someone who’s mental state has made them belligerent, or who refuses to leave, or is simply an African American male, someone winds up

Nichola in Action

dead. This congregation realized that if they were going to not be complicit, they’d have to change their relationship to violence and to the police. We’ll hear about their process in reaching these decisions and how they are being implemented

Nichola Torbett is a lay leader in this lay-led United Church of Christ church. She’s part of the worship team and does spiritual development work. Up until a few years ago, she led Seminary of the Street, which offered lay people a chance to study and experiment with integrating a gospel of justice into their lives.

Be sure to go to LoveInADangerousTime.net, and check the show notes to find the news stories about First Congo and links to books and organizations that are mentioned in the interview.

So let’s go to Oakland, California, the town of my roots, for this very interesting talk with Nichola Torbett.

James W. Douglass – JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters (click)

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Faith-Rooted Organizing: Mobilizing the Church in Service to the World (click)

First Congo’s Holy Week Declaration:

NO MORE STATE-SPONSORED CRUCIFIXIONS IN THE NAME OF “SAFETY”

SURJ Faith Campaign inviting congregations to think about their relationship to policing. Here’s the link to that campaign landing page: http://www.showingupforracialjustice.org/community-safety-campaign.html

Press Articles: Washington Post, SF Chronicle

SeminaryoftheStreet.org

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All Rights for All, Without Boarders

Last week, the Trump administration launched what they call a “deterrents” program, on the Mexican board, of separating children from their families as

Rev. Dr. Danielle Tumminio

they process hopeful immigrants attempting to enter the United States. The entire world was shocked that this brutality was happening. Hundreds of angry denunciations came from every corner of our culture.

On Monday, June 18, 2018, (one week ago today) a large number of theologians and religious educators came together to write a powerful document spelling out the appalling immorality of this program and the “family incarceration” plan that eventually replaced it. You can read it, download it and send it to everyone you know online. The address is in the shownotes for this episode at LoveInADangerousTime.net.

The title is All Rights for All, Without Boarders. This four paragraph statement was released on Thursday, June 21, in both English & Spanish.

On this episode, we’ll talk with three people who’s hard work went into the creation of this important piece. It not only explains the theological understanding of how these attacks on families are immoral, but also encourages people of faith to join the fight to stop them.

Rev. Dr. Miguel de la Torre

 

My three guests are:

Rev. Dr. Danielle Tumminio, Seminary of the Southwest, Austin

Rev. Dr. Miguel de la Torre, Ilif School of Theology, Denver

and Camilo Pérez Bustillo, Hope Boarder Institute, El Paso

We’ll talk about the document itself and the issues that it raises, and take a look at how the Lovers, and everyone else, can use it to help carry on the fight for justice.

Be sure to look at the show notes at Love in a Dangerous Time.NET. There you’ll be able to click the statement and find several related links.

Camilo Pérez Bustillo

LINKS

All Rights for All, Without Boarders: https://action.groundswell-mvmt.org/petitions/all-rights-for-all-without-borders

Tales of Hope and Terror (film by Miguel de la Torre): https://www.trailsofhopeandterrorthemovie.com/

1994 Boarder Patrol Strategic Plan:  https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=721845

Trump’s executive order:  https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/affording-congress-opportunity-address-family-separation/

Hope Boarder Institute – https://www.hopeborder.org

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The presentation of the Spirit of the City address. Bro. Anthony (2nd from left), Rabbi Feinberg (far right, seated) and Rev. Gibson (at lectern)

It’s still pretty early in the year and all over the country we’re seeing mayors and governors (and even the president) deliver very official “State of” speeches that take a look at the accomplishments of the past year and spell out what the major tasks of the new year will be. Here in New York City, our mayor, Bill De Blasio, delivered his – progressive sounding – speech on February 13. Two days later, New York’s faith community, led by the Micah Institute, delivered it’s own take on the situation, calling it the “Spirit of the City.”

This is a great example of people of faith stepping up and offering leadership on several fronts in the struggle to make our city a safe and just place. So you may want to take some notes here and try to pull this together in your city. It’s a good time for people of faith to gather together some power to help straighten out the mess we’re slogging around in today.

 

Read and download the “Spirit of the City” document at: www.MicahSpirit.weebly.com

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Dr. Diane Steinman

Have you ever felt that somehow you personally were responsible for repairing this crazy world we live it. That this world where kids are murdered in their school, where Nazis march around chanting hateful slogans, in this world where millions of refugees are refused help when they flee for their lives and the lives of their families, where armed representatives of the state are free to murder people of color whenever it pops into their mind to do that? What is your/my responsibility in those situations?

Today I talk with my good friend, Diane Steinman who is one of the most committed workers for justice in our city of New York. Most of her always-energetic activism is focused on immigration issues, but she’s always there. It’s just who she is.

As a Jew, she grew up with the idea of Tikkun Olam, or “Repair the World.” It’s part of her religion to see the repair of the world to be a basic responsibility of life. Maybe we Christians could learn a little from that. Do you think?

I work with Diane in the Micah Institute, here in New York, where she heads two committees. She is also the director of the New York State Interfaith Network for Immigration Reform, and an activist in the New Sanctuary Coalition of New York.

Diane and I talked about what it means to commit to a life of struggling for justice, and how it fits into her religious view of life.

– – – – LINKS: – – – – –

The Micah Institute recently presented the “Spirit of the City” address, to compliment the mayor’s State of the City – www.MicahSpirit.weebly.com

A very active and effective group doing work to support imigrants in NYCA is – www.NewSancturaryNYC.org

A really great Jewish magazine, Tikkun, publishes articles by Jews, Christians, Muslims and Buddhists that offer insight into the repair work that we need to do in these times. – www.tikkun.org

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The Rev. Karyn Carlo, PhD

I hope that everyone has listened, at least once, to last week’s program with historian and author, Dr. Nancy MacLean on her very important book, DEMOCRACY IN CHAINS: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America (episode 101). It’s a very scary book about the real world and I think it opens up a view to Christians as to what our “job” is in these dangerous times. Seriously, if you haven’t heard the episode, please go back and listen to it now.

Then, I invite you to return to the comments section on the page at LoveInADangerousTime.net, or in our Love in a Dangerous Time Community page on Facebook, and write your comments about the book, the subject matter, your reaction, or what you think will be the impact on your faith walk.

Speaking of “Faith Walks,” today’s guest walked with her faith through twenty years as a New York cop, and is now a strong supporter of Black Lives Matter. This was the subject of an earlier episode that we did together (episode 84).  And after she retired from the NYPD, she went back to school (Union Seminary) and came out as a professor of theology, who teaches in the “majority world,” (i.e. not in the US or Europe).

The Rev. Karyn Carlo, PhD is someone I’ve been friends with for over ten years, here in New York. Her teaching career has taken her to two countries in particular: Myanmar (aka, Burma) and Liberia. In this episode she talks about her recent stint in Liberia, in Western Africa, teaching theology in a Baptist seminary. In her time there she witnessed the huge price that country has paid for a 14-year civil war followed by the Ebola epidemic, which, combined, tore apart the country’s infrastructure and

Dr. Carlo at demo

generate deep poverty. And after twenty five years of essentially no schools, Dr. Carlo and her students have many obstacles to overcome in the process of educating Liberia’s next generation of clergy.

In this interview we’ll talk about some of the big questions that come up for Dr. Carlo in her work. What does it mean to say, “God is Black?” Why is it that a white Christian has to come to a Black country to tell Black people that “God is Black?” How does this all inform Christians in the “minority world” (i.e, the US and Europe) as we look at race, colonialism? We get into these questions and more in this very interesting interview.

So, Lovers, you know that this podcast is designed to raise important questions for a diverse community of faith that is at a crossroads. I hope this interview stimulates you to take a serious look at what kind of faith communities will we need to do our job, as Christians, in these Dangerous Times.

 

 

Dr. James Cone – Founder of Black Liberation Theology and Dr. Carolo’s mentor. Click to to to his author page on Amazon.

 

 

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Dr. Nancy MacLean

As you Lovers certainly know, this podcast is focused on the apparent crumbling of what we have called for the last few hundred years, The Church. Congregations are shrinking, the influence of churches is ebbing, and churches are being shut down. The church that I’m a part of is going through that process now. And many of the people who one might have expected to be the next generation of a thriving church are finished with organized religions (the NONES) or the Spiritual but Not Religious folks. There is a reason why this is happening. It’s not Jesus or the Gospel itself. It’s the hypocrisy of the comfortable church that is turning people off. They are looking for ways to become the presence of the Gospel in a meaningful way in a world that is more of a mess than it’s been for a long time.

So we, as Christians, as people of faith, have a job to do and it’s not to save the church. As Brian McLaren said on this podcast a few months ago (episode 095). “We have to decide whether we want to save the church, or join God in saving the world.” This episode of Love in a Dangerous Time is about the job that Christians have of “joining God in saving the world.”

Dr. Nancy MacLean is a well-know and well respected historian. She is the William H. Chafe Professor of History and Public Policy at Duke University. This summer she came out with a rather earth shaking book called Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America. It has been described by Publishers Weekly as “a thoroughly researched and gripping narrative… [and] a feat of American intellectual and political history.” Booklist called it “perhaps the best explanation to date of the roots of the political divide that threatens to irrevocably alter American government.” And it’s scarier than anything you ever written by Stephen King. And Democracy in Chains was a finalist for the 2017 National Book Award for nonfiction.

James McGill Buchanan Chrles Koch

The book discusses the life and thought of one of the Libertarian movement’s leading thinkers, James McGill Buchanan, and the infamous right-wing financiers, Charles Koch (yes, he’s one of the Koch brothers) and their efforts to accomplish many of the apparent goals of Trumps cabinet members. Their projects have included trying to end public education, stop all measures to control global warming, eliminate labor unions, suppress voting, make medical care unavailable to the poor, and eliminate Social Security and Medicare. Now their group is proposing (and very close to getting) a constitutional convention to replace the US Constitution.

For those of us who read the Bible, and see Jesus as our teacher, this is a terrifying prospect. This discussion with Dr. MacLean sheds much light on the values and ethics (or the lack there-of) we’re confronting as we do our Gospel work in this area.

To bring his brilliance and creativity to the discussion I’ve invited Rev. Stephen H. Phelps to join me. Steve is a Presbyterian minister here in New York. For three years he was the interim Senior Pastor of The Riverside Church (till early 2014), a huge congregation with a long-time reputation as a center for Gospel-led Justice work. He also does a fair bit of writing in Tikkun Magazine, Huffington Post, TruthOut, and in his blog, Permanent Revolution, at http://www.stephenhphelps.com/

CLICK TO ORDER (Your order benefits Love in a Dangerous Time)

Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America, by Nancy MacLean Related – Dark Money, by Jane Meyer Related – The Shock Doctrine, by Naomi Klein Keep Hope Alive – Hope in the Dark, by Rebecca Solnit

 

To watch video of a TED Talk by Dan Areily – Economic Inequality – click: https://youtu.be/2tCcoSRZqVY Keep Hope Alive – Paradise Built in Hell, by Rebecca Solnit Follow Us

…….

Russ talks with Tripp Fuller, host of Homebrewed Christianity, the podcast that started the whole progressive Christian podcast niche. His show is focused on real theology, and real theologians. What a way to celebrate the 100th episode of Love in a Dangerous Time?

……..

Well, Lovers, we did it! This podcast has accomplished a huge milestone. This is the one hundredth episode. It’s amazing!

THE PODFATHER
Tripp Fuller

Whooda Thunkit? Of course, it took a little over three years to do it, but we DID it!!!

And to help celebrate, my guest is none other than The Pod Father himself, Tripp Fuller, if the Homebrewed Christianity Podcast. Back in the early twenty-first century (like ten years ago!), Tripp started his amazing cast in a world that didn’t really have well-known progressive Christian podcasting. Not only was he alone on the planet, but he created a show that delved into the depths of real theology, with niche-famous theologians joining him to discuss the important work of the day.

We talked about the whole niche thing. When I was in radio, we always wanted to make sure we could mobilize as large an audience as possible. This was at a listener-sponsored station, so we didn’t have to try to attract advertisers, but we had to justify what we were doing and how large was the audience that we were serving. But a podcaster can do a show that’s aimed directly at a very small audience of theology nerds (Tripp) or people who are trying to re-invent the Church (me).

We also talked about our favorite podcasts and life in general. It’s a good chat.

As to the next one hundred episodes…… I think there will be more great interviews about the many glaring issues facing the Church and our whole culture (these are, after all, Dangerous Times). It seems to me that among all the “issues” of the day, the possibility that our president may get us into a nuclear war is the most pressing issue of the twenty-first century so far. We’ll still be looking at the rise of racism/Nazism/super nationalism, but whenever I can, we’ll be talking about war. What do Christians think of war? What is nonviolence? And most importantly, as Christians, what is our job!?

So go ahead and click “play” and join the party.

 

LINKS:

Click on cover to order from Amazon Tripp edits a series of theological primers. Click here to go to Homebrewed Christianity

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Interfaith Work in New York, with The Rev. Dr. Chloe Bryer

Rev. Dr. Chloe Breyer

Hey, Lovers – This is Russ and I want to welcome you to Love in a Dangerous Time, where we look at The Church, and the profound changes it’s going through in these Dangerous Times. We’ve got a great program today, but first I want to give you a heads up that the next episode of Love in a Dangerous Time will be number 100. This is a huge milestone for the show, for me personally, and for this really vital conversation that we are all a part of.

The excitement of the hundredth episode is really a big deal. And to celebrate, my guest on episode 100 will be none other than “The Pod Father” himself, Tripp Fuller. Tripp is the host of Homebrewed Christianity, which was the first progressive Christian podcast to really take off. The excitement of discussing real theology on Homebrewed has been a big part of the progressive upheaval we’re in right now. And his podcast is a direct inspiration for many new podcasts to be launched, including this one. You won’t want to miss it.

Today’s episode, number 99, is all about interfaith work, and my guest is The Rev. Dr. Chloe Breyer, the executive director of The Interfaith Center of New York. This is a very active and very effective organization that brings people of a variety of faith traditions together to break down divisions and do justice work together. We also look into the theological rationale behind this healing work and at some of the problems it brings up.

These are Dangerous Times, Lovers. And we really have to learn to work together.

 

Website:  www.interfaithcenter.org

Be sure to check out the Interfaith Center’s podcast, Interfaith Matters: http://interfaithcenter.org/podcast/

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(Music sections have been re-edited)

In the past many years, almost every recording artist has sung Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah. It’s an extremely poetic look at the mess the world that resolves at the end into an affirmation of hope in spite of it all:

…. And even though it all went wrong

I’ll stand before the Lord of Song

With nothing on my tongue but “Hallelujah”

And that’s just the beginning. There’s Suzanne, So Long Maryanne, Bird On a Wire, Chelsea Hotel, Fa

mous Blue Raincoat, If It Be Your Will, I’m Your Man, Dance Me to the End of Love, Everybody Knows. And from the newest (his last) album, You Want it Darker?.

Though it may feel a little ironic, don’t leave out Democracy is Coming (To the USA).

These songs, and dozens more, have been inserted into the DNA of people all over the world. Leonard Cohen has been in a deep dialogue with us for some fifty years. He brings a profound spirituality to his work – and hence to us –

Shira Averbuch

that can be earthshaking.

Leonard Cohen was raised Jewish. Though his songs are sprinkled with Christian imagery and he was a Buddhist monk for several years, his Jewish heart is the well from which he drew his songs.

A couple of weeks ago, B’nai Jeshurun, a large and very progressive synagogue in the Upper West Side of New York, presented an evening of Cohen’s songs, near his first yahrzeit – the first anniversary of his death. Jews commemorate lost loved ones each year on this anniversary. The first year is particularly important because the gravestone is unveiled (there

Dam Nadel

is no stone for the first year).

So today, on Tuesday, November 7, the anniversary of Leonard Cohen’s death on the evening before the election that brought us Donald Trump, Love in a Dangerous Time presents you with a discussion of Cohen with the organizers of the event at B’nai Jeshurun. Guitarist, Dan Nadel and singer, Shira Averbuch. They led a four-piece band and five singers in the joyous and grateful event, and continued the experience with me here in this insightful interview. To make the whole thing even more wonderful, they performed two songs from the event in the Love in a Dangerous Times studio.

There are lots of links to more info on Leonard Cohen and some of his songs. So you can dive in and really get to know him.  Please comment below, or post at Love in a Dangerous Time Community on Facebook, and list your favorite Leonard Cohen songs.

Speaking of favorite song, mine is Anthem. I still get shivers every time I hear Cohen, or anyone else, say:

There’s a crack in everything.

That’s how the light gets in.

 

LINKS:

• Leonard Cohen’s website:  http://www.leonardcohen.com/links

• Dan’s website – https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/dannadel

• Shira’s website – https://www.shiraofficial.com

Click on picture to order on Amazon

• Aubrey Glazer’s Amazon Author Page

• David Remnick, Leonard Cohen Makes it Darker, The New Yorker, October 17, 2016

An excellent, mostly biographical, article.

• Rabbi Jonathan Sacks on Leonard Cohen and parsha Vayera – a profound analysis of the title song from Cohen’s last album, “You Want It Darker?” Sacks is the former Chief Rabbi of the UK.

• “You Want It Darker?” – audio of the song, from the album

• “You Want it Darker?” – album on Amazon

• Malcolm Gladwell – Revisionist History podcast,

Season 1, Episode 7 – “Hallelujah” A fascinating study of how a song “becomes” great.

All of Gladwell’s podcasts are fantastic.

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Rev. Trey Lyon

This show was supposedto be released on October 23, but my computer has been completely out of commission for three days, and here I am, publishing this very important program (and it really is an important one) a week late on October 30. My apologies to all who have been waiting for it. I do believe my tech is in order, and I’ll be back on schedule but….. you know.

 

Lisa Sharon Harper

TODAY’S EPISODE

Speaking of joining God in Saving the World, today’s episode is a perfect example. We have all been appalled and angered to see the boisterous rise of neo-Nazi, KKK, and general white nationalism popping up all over the US. The whole thing is scary and it reminds us of the years of build-up of the Nazi party in Germany in the thirties & forties.  In 1934, a group of progressive Christians, led by Karl Barth, put out the “Theological Declaration of Barmen,” which denounced Nazism in strong theological language. It is in that spirit that several of our country’s most active progressive Christian leaders created “Theological Declaration on Christian Faith and White Supremacy.”

In this episode I’ll talk with the Declaration’s instigator, Rev. Trey Lyon, of Atlanta, and author/activist, Lisa Sharon Harper about the writing and the powerful content of this important organizing tool.

Again – please go to the Love in a Dangerous Time Community page on Facebook, and drop your thinking on the important problems this document addresses so all the Lovers can discuss it.

LINKS:

The Declaration – https://www.thedeclaration.net

Barmen Declaration: http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/barmen.htm

Contact Lisa –  Websites:  LisaSharonHarper.com, FreedomRoad.us (coming mid-November)

Contact Trey – Twitter: @Rev. Trey Lyon, [email protected]

BIOS:

Trey Lyon

Trey Lyon is a pastor, writer and activist from Atlanta, Georgia. Trey has helped start after school programs and free summer literacy camps, urban mission immersion programs through Lydia’s House and works on a variety of social justice issues on the local and state levels with the goal of building the Beloved Community in our time. Trey also serves as one of six pastors of Park Avenue Baptist Church, a bold, inclusive, creative congregation that models non-hierarchical, collaborative leadership. He is married to another pastor at Park Avenue, Jen and they have two kids–Gabe and Taylor.

Lisa Sharon Harper

From Ferguson to New York to Germany and South Africa Ms. Harper leads trainings and helps mobilize clergy and community leaders around shared values for the common good. A prolific speaker, writer and activist, Ms. Harper is the founder and president of FreedomRoad.us (launching online Fall 2017), a consulting group dedicated to shrinking the narrative gap in our nation by convening forums and experiences that bring common understanding, common commitment, and common action toward a just world. Ms. Harper is the author of several books, including: Evangelical Does Not Equal Republican…or Democrat (The New Press, 2008), Left Right and Christ: Evangelical Faith in Politics (Elevate, 2011), Forgive Us: Confessions of a Compromised Faith (Zondervan, 2014), and the critically acclaimed, The Very Good Gospel: How Everything Wrong can be Made Right (Waterbrook, a division of Penguin Random House, 2016). The Very Good Gospel, recognized as the “2016 Book of the Year” by Englewood Review of Books, explores God’s intent for the wholeness of all relationships in light of today’s headlines.

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