The making and the meaning of pop music
RAYE names Amy Winehouse and Edith Piaf as her artistic predecessors on the opening tracks of new album This Music May Contain Hope. Both died young, undone by the same darkness they sang about, and placing them there reads as a dare to herself. The album that follows is her attempt to find a different ending: a 17-track, 75-minute work featuring Al Green, Hans Zimmer, the London Symphony Orchestra, and over 80 collaborators, structured around the four seasons as a journey from autumn despair toward summer light.
Every genre shift on the record, from Vivaldi's Winter to post-bop jazz combo to gospel choir, serves that arc: small emotional truths get cinematic treatment, most strikingly when the click of heels on pavement becomes the central rhythm of an anthem about getting dressed to go out with friends. The episode serves as a field guide to the album's vast musical language, and to the argument that hope is something you have to build, genre by genre, track by track.
Links: Newsletter, YouTube
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
On a recent podcast interview, Kentucky rapper Jack Harlow said that, to craft his new album Monica, he “got blacker.” The problem is… Jack Harlow is white. The statement, while extremely tone-deaf, speaks to his intentions with this musical pivot: musically, Monica turns to the historically Black genres of R&B and neo-soul to craft a new image designed to shed the stigma of being a “white rapper.”
The pivot is more costume than culture, but in doing so, Harlow seems to be following in the footsteps of several white rappers over the past decade. Artists like Post Malone, MGK, and Jelly Roll have all had radical shifts in sound and image over their career, separating themselves from their roots in hip-hop. So, in response to Monica, Reanna and Charlie ask: where have all the white rappers gone?
Links: Newsletter, YouTube
Songs discussed:
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Jacob Collier is a rare musician: an expert in so many musical languages (western harmony, negative harmony, microtonalism) and a phenomenal communicator about music. He's something like an Ambassador for Music, traveling the world and getting thousands of people, musicians and non-musicians alike, to sing in his audience choirs.
Live at On Air Fest, this conversation, catches Jacob between projects. Last year he released The Light for Days, a comparatively minimalist collection of songs written on his special five-string guitar, a quiet turn after the massive Djesse quadrilogy, which featured over 50 collaborators from Herbie Hancock to Anoushka Shankar and wove hundreds of thousands of audience choir voices into the recordings.
Given that Jacob is always improvising with the best collaborators, Charlie wanted one of his own own. Five minutes before the show, Charlie spotted Sam Sanders, co-host of Vibe Check and host of the Sam Sanders Show on KCRW, and asked him onstage. Sam's a musician and one of the great interviewers, and he showed how improvising in conversation is just as essential as it is in music.
Links: Newsletter, YouTube
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The dance floor is where Harry Styles does his therapy, and this album is the session notes. Four years after Harry's House, Styles returns with Kiss All the Time, Disco Occasionally, a record built from minimal ingredients: live drums, Moog bass, nylon guitar, and synth sequences that stretch across entire songs without a drop in sight. This is Styles' anti-drop album. Where classic disco era dance celebrated collective joy, Styles uses the dance floor as a stage for self-examination.
Links: Newsletter, YouTube
Songs discussed:
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Bruno Mars is back with a new album called The Romantic, his first solo release since 2016’s 24k Magic. At first listen, the lead single, “I Just Might,” sounds like an outtake from 2021’s collaborative album with Anderson Paak, the Philly soul-inspired An Evening with Silk Sonic. Listen closer though and another element emerges: a fast-paced conga drum line.
The rest of Mars’s nine-track confection chases that Latin influence. This is not just another retread of 70s funk and soul. In fact, The Romantic makes the case that Mars is pop’s great counter-programmer, finding styles of the past that no one else has yet mined.
Charlie and Nate break down all the new territory covered by Mars, from Latin boleros to Cuban cha chas, Nuyorican boogaloo to a mariachi “My Way.” The results may not change your mind about Mars, but they might make you appreciate the finer points of what is sure to be an omnipresent new release.
Links: Newsletter, YouTube
Songs discussed:
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Emerald Fennell's new adaptation of Emily Brontë's 1847 gothic romance "Wuthering Heights" is the most talked-about film of the year. But for pop lovers, the soundtrack is the real event: Charli xcx, asked to write one song, ended up recording an entire album for the movie while in the middle of the BRAT tour.
If BRAT gave people permission to be messy on the dance floor, this score gives permission to be messy in your souls. But Charli isn't the first artist to channel "Wuthering Heights" into music. Line up her hyperpop strings and cavernous reverb against Kate Bush's winding harmonies, a Hollywood orchestral score from 1939, and Ryuichi Sakamoto's unsettled piano, and something surprising emerges: the most operatic, passionate, Wuthering Heights-obsessed recording of them all might belong to someone you'd never expect.
Songs discussed:
Charli xcx “Everything is Romantic”
Charli xcx “Always Everywhere”
Charli xcx “House” (feat. John Cale)
Hans Zimmer “Inception score”
Charli xcx “Wall of Sound”
Ike & Tina Turner “River Deep, Mountain High”
Charli xcx “Chains of Love”
Charli xcx “Out of Myself”
Charli xcx “Funny Mouth” (co-written with Joe Curie)
Alfred Newman “Wuthering Heights score (1939)”
Ryuichi Sakamoto “Wuthering Heights score (1992)”
Kate Bush “Wuthering Heights”
Celine Dion “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now”
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
It's the middle of award season, and Ryan Coogler's ode to the Black music canon Sinners has emerged as the Oscars frontrunner and the most nominated film in Academy Awards history. The love the movie has for the Delta blues is front and center, and begs the question: will the movie's legacy help bring the blues back into popular culture? There's already been a precedent for films reviving dead genres – think The Sting and its ragtime score, or O Brother Where Art Thou's relationship to bluegrass – and on this episode of Switched On Pop, Reanna and Nate talk with Vulture writer Fran Hoepfner about the times in which movie soundtracks have shifted the musical culture.
Read Fran's piece on movie scoring, The Death of the Classic Film Score, here.
Songs discussed:
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
A$AP Rocky’s latest album, Don’t Be Dumb, is a wild ride through a cacophony of sounds — punk, industrial, drum ‘n’ bass, indie rock, and of course, hip hop. But on one track, “Robbery,” he and the rising superstar Doechii sample the world of jazz, specifically Thelonious Monk’s 1955 cover of Duke Ellington’s “Caravan.” In the process, Rocky and Doechii don’t just loop and flow, they create a whole narrative of jazz age victors and villains inspired by the rhythms and harmonies of jazz greats. The result is a song, and album, that makes the case for why hip hop matters more than ever in 2026.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
What makes Weird Al songs so indelible? Why is Bo Burnham more than just a comic? How do the biggest pop hits make us crack up in the middle of a somber ballad? Humor is always present in music, but we rarely confront it head on. Until now. With the help of Comedian Chris Duffy, author of the book Humor Me: How Laughing Can Make You More Connected, Present, and Happy, and a series of lyrical submission from our listeners, we try to answer the question once posed by Frank Zappa, once and for all: Does humor belong in music?
Songs discussed:
Sabrina Carpenter – Manchild
Marcia Belsky – 100 Tampons
Bo Burnham – From God’s Perspective
Snoop Dogg – Gin and Juice
The Gourds – Gin and Juice
Taylor Swift – All Too Well (10 Minute Version)
“Weird Al” Yankovic – Amish Paradise
“Weird Al” Yankovic – My Bologna
Stevie Wonder – Pastime Paradise
Coolio – Gangsta’s Paradise
Bo Burnham – That Funny Feeling
Bo Burnham – FaceTime With My Mom
Elaine Stritch – Are You Having Any Fun?
Barenaked Ladies – If I Had $1,000,000
Kendrick Lamar – Not Like Us
Eminem – The Real Slim Shady
2 Chainz – Birthday Song
Lil Jon – Snap Yo Fingers
Olivia Rodrigo – Get Him Back
Chappell Roan – Casual
Audrey Hobert – I like to touch people
Audrey Hobert – Bowling alley
Jensen McRae – Immune
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The ultimate gauntlet of popular music is upon us once again: it's Grammy season, and this year, the competition is pretty tight across the board. Big ticket A-listers like Bad Bunny, Sabrina Carpenter, Kendrick Lamar, and Lady Gaga occupy three of the four big categories (Song, Record, and Album of the Year), while folks like Olivia Dean, Lola Young, Leon Thomas, and Addison Rae duke it out in Best New Artist.
On this episode of Switched on Pop, Charlie, Nate, and Reanna take a look at the "big four" categories, and stump for their respective frontrunners in order to predict who will be taking home a golden phonograph (or two).
Links: Newsletter, YouTube
Songs discussed:
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Swedish pop star Robyn emerged as a phenomenon in the mid 1990s, an ingenue whose work with Max Martin presaged the R&B crossover hits of acts like Britney and the Backstreet Boys. Since her debut, she’s released a string of albums that have shaped the sound of dance music as we know it.
Now, Robyn is releasing her first new album in eight years, Sexistential, and she’s given us three singles made up of her signature combination of thumping bass and ethereal vocals, while innovating into new personal –and vulnerable — territory. With raps about IVF, references to Blondie, a return to her collaboration with Max Martin, and our introduction of “drum n grace” to the lexicon, this episode is manna for Robyn fans and tyros alike.
Stick around as we unveil a new feature, “Quick Hits,” a down-and-dirty carousel ride through the most interesting new releases, from ASAP Rocky to Zach Bryan.
Songs discussed:
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices