The Musk v. OpenAI trial continues, which means so do the allegations and leaks surrounding some of the most influential people in tech. Nilay and David recount the most interesting and entertaining moments from the courtroom this week, before digging into what we've learned about when Sam Altman was fired. After that, the hosts discuss OpenAI's apparent plans to build a phone, which seem utterly necessary and utterly doomed, along with the new Fitbit Air and a truly strange new home robot. Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for the Hype Desk, Brendan Carr is a Dummy, the Chinese company that wants to make everything, and the next big rebrand for xAI.

Further reading:

• ⁠Internal Tech Emails on X: "Sam Altman texts Mira Murat⁠

• ⁠We are going through the removal of Sam Altman from OpenAI in detail. ⁠

• ⁠Toner is relating how Sam Altman’s firing happened. ⁠

• ⁠Toner says she found out about ChatGPT by seeing screenshots on Twitter. ⁠

• ⁠Zilis sent Altman a text message of support after his 2023 ouster. ⁠

• ⁠Google’s taking a big swing at AI health with the Fitbit Air⁠

• ⁠OpenAI is reportedly launching a phone for ChatGPT ⁠

• ⁠The creator of Roomba is back with a furry robot companion ⁠

• ⁠Inside Dreame’s wild launch event — packed with products no one can buy⁠

• ⁠Dreame — the vacuum company — just ‘launched’ its own phones | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Dreame’s rocket-powered car can do 0–60 in 0.9 seconds because you can just say things now⁠

• ⁠A foldable iPhone dummy — on video. ⁠

• ⁠Apple agrees to pay iPhone owners $250 million for not delivering AI Siri ⁠

• ⁠DOJ assault on the NFL could end the Packers as we know them.⁠

• ⁠Apple could let you pick a favorite AI model in iOS 27 ⁠

• ⁠xAI is becoming SpaceXAI.⁠

• ⁠Microsoft gives up on Xbox Copilot AI ⁠

• ⁠Microsoft’s new Xbox shake-up is all about platform changes ⁠

⁠Subscribe to The Verge⁠ for unlimited access to ⁠theverge.com⁠, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ⁠ad-free podcast feed⁠.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to ⁠[email protected]⁠ or call us at 866-VERGE11.

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Intro

00:02:00 Trial Discovery Era

00:06:00 Early OpenAI Origins

00:11:00 Elon Power Struggle

00:17:00 Altman Firing Texts

00:27:00 Why The Board Panicked

00:36:00 ChatGPT Phone Rumor

00:39:00 OpenAI Phone vs App Store

00:41:00 Why Apps Still Matter

00:44:00 Apple Siri Power Play

00:49:00 Apple Intelligence Lawsuit

00:53:00 Google Fitbit Air

00:57:00 Google Health Rebrand Backlash

01:01:00 Familiar Robot Pet Debate

01:10:00 Nintendo Star Fox Returns

01:12:00 Nintendo Weirdness Wins

01:15:00 Furry Overlap Discourse

01:16:00 Zach Gardening Surprise

01:21:00 Brendan Carr Broadband Fight

01:23:00 NFL Antitrust And Packers

01:29:00 Dreame Vaporware Parade

01:32:00 Rocket Car Reality Check

01:34:00 Elon Corporate Matryoshka

01:36:00 Xbox Ditches Copilot

01:37:00 Wrap Up And Schedule

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Car companies are beginning to use AI tools to radically speed up their development process, which could change the cars we drive forever — and have some big effects on the people who make them now. Verge contributor Tim Stevens explains. Then, The Verge’s Hayden Field catches us up on Codex vs. Claude Code, Anthropic vs. the US government, the vibes at OpenAI, and more, before helping answer a question on the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email ⁠[email protected]⁠!) about whether all the recent tech layoffs are really about AI.

Further reading:

• ⁠The AI-designed car is taking shape | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Pentagon strikes classified AI deals with OpenAI, Google, and Nvidia — but not Anthropic⁠

• ⁠Google employees ask Sundar Pichai to say no to classified military AI use | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Anthropic’s new cybersecurity model could get it back in the government’s good graces | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Microsoft and OpenAI’s famed AGI agreement is dead | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Here’s how the new Microsoft and OpenAI deal breaks down | The Verge⁠

• ⁠ChatGPT downloads are slowing — and may cause problems for OpenAI’s IPO | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Claude can now plug directly into Photoshop, Blender, and Ableton | The Verge⁠

• ⁠OpenAI’s new security model is for ‘critical cyber defenders’ only | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Anthropic releases a new Opus model amid Mythos Preview buzz | The Verge⁠

• ⁠Jack Dorsey’s Block cuts nearly half of its staff in AI gamble | The Verge⁠

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Intro

00:02:00 Today Show Preview

00:04:00 Car Design Primer

00:08:00 AI Speeds Up Design

00:13:00 Clay Models and Craft

00:15:00 Jobs Pipeline Risk

00:18:00 Software Defined Cars

00:20:00 Regulation and Safety

00:27:00 Slate Truck Update

00:34:00 Claude Code vs Codex

00:42:00 OpenAI Vibes Check

00:44:00 PR vs AI Doomerism

00:48:00 Pentagon Deals Exclude Anthropic

00:53:00 Mythos Reality Check

00:56:00 RIP AGI Moment

01:04:00 Hotline AI Layoffs ROI

01:13:00 Wrap Up and Sign Off

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Elon Musk spent a lot of his week trying to explain how OpenAI wronged him — but mostly just seemed to annoy everyone else in the courtroom. Nilay and David discuss Musk's testimony in the OpenAI trial, and what it might mean for the trial going forward. After that, the Hype Desk gang recommends a couple of new things to watch, before the hosts chat about the week's new gadgets, including the Steam Controller and the dual-screen Zephyrus Duo laptop. Finally, in the lightning round, Brendan Carr picks a fight over Jimmy Kimmel again, Netflix buys into the clip economy, and Taylor Swift fights the AI.

Further reading:

• Elon Musk confirms xAI used OpenAI’s models to train Grok

• All the evidence unveiled so far in Musk v. Altman 

• Elon Musk appeared more petty than prepared 

• Elon Musk tells the jury that all he wants to do is save humanity 

• Elon Musk’s worst enemy in court is Elon Musk 

• Jury selection in Musk v. Altman: ‘People don’t like him’ 

• Microsoft and OpenAI’s famed AGI agreement is dead 

• Now that OpenAI’s Microsoft exclusivity is over, it has a new deal with Amazon and AWS.

• ChatGPT downloads are slowing — and may cause problems for OpenAI’s IPO

• Meta lost 20 million users last quarter

• The more young people use AI, the more they hate it

• Google Search queries hit an ‘all time high’ last quarter

• Valve’s new Steam Controller isn’t perfect, but I’m buying one anyway 

• Valve launches the Steam Controller without the Steam Machine 

• Why the Steam Controller is (and isn’t) a big deal 

• Samsung’s first smart glasses have leaked 

• Is this Samsung’s upcoming wide foldable? 

• The long rumored foldable iPad may never see the light of day. 

• The new Razr Ultra is still the best-looking phone out there 

• Asus ROG Zephyrus Duo (2026) review: 2 screens 2 furious

• Trump demands ABC fire Jimmy Kimmel

• The FCC is going after the broadcast licenses of Disney-owned ABC stations 

• Former FCC staffers agree: Brendan Carr needs to be stopped 

• The FCC is saving Amazon’s Eero and Leo routers from its ban, too. 

• Taylor Swift deepfakes are pushing scams on TikTok 

• Here’s what Netflix’s new vertical video feed is like

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Intro

00:03:00 Elon vs OpenAI Overview

00:07:00 Jury Selection Drama

00:12:00 Elon's Testimony Begins

00:23:00 Trial Implications

00:26:00 Microsoft and OpenAI Split

00:30:00 The AWS Deal

00:32:00 Consumer AI Backlash

00:41:00 AI Powered Ad Targeting

00:44:00 Enterprise AI Success Story

00:45:00 Widow's Bay Recommendation

00:46:00 Apple TV Quality Content

00:48:00 Coyote vs Acme

00:55:00 Steam Controller Review

00:57:00 Universal Remote Theory

01:01:00 Smart Glasses Problem

01:05:00 Wide Foldable Phones

01:09:00 Motorola Razr Ultra

01:12:00 ASUS ROG Zephyrus Duo

01:17:00 Brendan Carr is a Dummy

01:18:00 Jimmy Kimmel Controversy

01:25:00 FCC Open Meeting Response

01:26:00 News Distortion Rule Lawsuit

01:29:00 Router Ban Update

01:33:00 Taylor Swift Trademark Strategy

01:37:00 YouTube Likeness Protection

01:41:00 Netflix Clips Feature

01:44:00 The Clip Economy Shift

01:46:00 Streaming Services vs TikTok

01:49:00 Show Wrap Up

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Elon Musk's case against OpenAI is heading to trial. Musk is almost certainly going to lose, but he might still get everything he wants from the fight. The Verge's Liz Lopatto explains how this spat made it this far, and where it's going next. After that, The Verge's Sean Hollister tells us about the latest products from Framework, including the company's coolest laptop yet — and a keyboard for couch potatoes. Finally, Sean helps David answer a question from the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email [email protected]!) about the Surface Go and other small PCs, which might be due for a comeback.

Further reading:

• Musk vs. Altman is here, and it’s going to get messy 

• Mark Zuckerberg lies about content moderation to Joe Rogan’s face 

• A look at the evidence of Elon Musk’s lawsuit against Open AI 

• Framework announces Laptop 13 Pro, ‘the MacBook Pro for Linux users’ 

• Framework is building a better couch keyboard because everyone hates the Logitech one 

• Framework’s first OCuLink eGPUs hack its laptop into a desktop PC 

• Microsoft Surface Go review: a little goes a long way

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Rabbit R1 Returns

00:05:00 Musk vs OpenAI

00:07:00 What the Lawsuit Claims

00:11:00 Musk Motives and Remedies

00:16:00 Discovery Dirt and Strays

00:22:00 Altman Reputation Stakes

00:28:00 Risks for Musk and IPO

00:37:00 Framework Laptop Pro

00:41:00 Battery Life and Specs

00:43:00 Display Specs Upgrade

00:44:00 Battery And Memory Gains

00:45:00 Modular Upgrades Promise

00:50:00 Transparency And Community

00:53:00 Who This Laptop Is For

00:54:00 Linux First Developer Pitch

00:56:00 Pricing And Value

01:01:00 Couch Keyboard Upgrade

01:13:00 Vergecast Hotline Tiny Laptops

01:16:00 Arm Chip Revolution Explained

01:22:00 Wrap Up

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Now that we've had a few days to digest the Apple CEO succession news, Nilay and David get some help from Daring Fireball's John Gruber to discuss Tim Cook's legacy, the potential for change under John Ternus, and whether the Touch Bar actually could have been great. Then, Nilay and David react to some breaking news: Microsoft is going back to the Xbox. And everything is an Xbox now. Finally, in the lightning round, we have a round of Brendan Carr is a Dummy, a very 2026 new microphone, a BMW we can't figure out, and Meta's new AI training tool: its employees.

We’re also on video! Check us out on YouTube.

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.

We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

Further reading:

• Behold the cursed 2027 BMW 7 Series interior (via Car and Driver)
  

• Tim Cook’s departure is the start of a new era at Apple 

• Read Tim Cook’s letter to the Apple world as he departs as CEO 

• Wearable health tech might be Tim Cook’s greatest legacy  

• Who is Apple’s new CEO John Ternus? 

• Tim Cook: “I am healthy. My energy is high, and I plan to be in this new role for a long time.”
  

• Xbox Game Pass Ultimate gets a price cut but loses new Call of Duty games 

• Microsoft says the ‘idea’ of an Xbox mobile store ‘is not dead’ 

• Call of Duty never made much sense for Xbox Game Pass 

• We found Microsoft’s amicus brief about the Xbox mobile game store.
  

• Variety: Trump’s FCC Wants Input on Whether ‘Transgender and Gender Nonbinary’ TV Programming Is ‘Appropriate’ for Children
  

• Anthropic’s most dangerous AI model just fell into the wrong hands
  

• Insta360 is putting screens on its next wireless mics to show logos or images
  

• Now Meta will track what employees do on their computers to train its AI agents
  

--EPISODE RUNDOWN--

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:01:00 Tim Cook to step down as Apple CEO

00:50:00 Xbox rebrand

01:06:00 Brendan Carr is a Dummy

01:08:00 FCC targets "transgender and gender nonbinary" kids' TV

01:13:00 Mythos

01:21:00 BMW 7-Series' confusing interior

01:27:00 Insta360 mic with screen

01:30:00 Meta tracks employees

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We get a lot of questions about how we make The Vergecast. And why we make The Vergecast. And how we make money, and journalism, and everything. So every once in a while, we try to answer those questions! In this episode, David and Nilay are joined by The Verge's publisher, Helen Havlak, to talk about video podcasts, ads, subscriptions, Nilay's jackets, and much more.

Curious about those video podcasts we discussed? Check us out on YouTube.

Jealous of those Verge subscriptions we discussed? Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.

Have more questions for us? We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

--EPISODE RUNDOWN--

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 David's late night stroll

00:02:00 Today's Vergecast is about The Vergecast

00:03:00 New verge.com website just dropped

00:09:00 Following feature insights

00:13:00 Open Social Web plans

00:25:00 Verge audience demographics

00:31:00 Monetization

00:48:00 Audio vs. video podcasts

00:54:00 Supporting The Verge

01:00:00 Old Verge video style

01:07:00 Verge alumni

01:12:00 Why is it called Brendan Carr is a Dummy?

01:14:00 Nilay's jackets

01:21:00 How has gadget blogging changed?

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For the first time in 15 years, Apple is getting a new CEO. Tim Cook is stepping down, and John Ternus is taking the biggest job at one of the biggest companies in the world. News this big can only mean one thing: emergency Vergecast! Nilay and David broke down the news, their immediate reactions, and what they think might be in store for Apple going forward.

To watch our livestreams as they stream live, check us out on YouTube.
Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.
We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The AI vibes continue to find all-time lows. David and Nilay open the show by talking through the absurd Allbirds pivot to AI, the attacks on Sam Altman, and the increasing divide between what AI companies say is inevitable and what people actually want. Then, the Hype Desk crew talks Coachella and RAMageddon, before David and Nilay catch up on the Live Nation-Ticketmaster monopoly suit and the increasing price of everything. In the lightning round, it's time for Brendan Carr is a dummy, satellite internet, brain-computer interfaces, and the Trump Phone.

Further reading:

• Allbirds announced a switch from shoes to AI and its stock jumped 600 percent 

• The Allbirds pivot to… meme stock? 

• The attacks on Sam Altman are a warning for the AI world 

• Sam Altman reportedly targeted in second attack 

• Altman attack suspect proposed “Luigi’ing some tech CEOs.” 

• Stanford’s AI study

• NYT: Half of Gen Z Uses AI, but Their Feelings Are Souring, Study Shows

• Reese Witherspoon on Threads on AI

• Ticketmaster is an illegal monopoly, jury finds 

• A jury is about to decide the fate of Ticketmaster 

• Microsoft counters the MacBook Neo with freebies for students

• YouTube Premium is getting pricier 

• RAMageddon has come for Microsoft’s Surface Pro and Surface Laptop 

• Meta blames RAM shortage for $100 Quest 3 price hike

• FCC’s Brendan Carr again blasts deals between NFL and streaming services

• The FCC just saved Netgear from its router ban for no obvious reason 

• Netgear and the FCC have not responded to our emails. 

• Did Neuralink make the wrong bet?

• Apple and Amazon are teaming up to challenge Starlink’s smartphone ambitions 

• Point, Musk. 

• Amazon’s Starlink competitor now has an airplane antenna. 

• Amazon’s Starlink competitor Leo gets a new date 

• The new Trump Phone design is here 

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

--EPISODE RUNDOWN--

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Allbirds Goes AI

00:06:00 From Shoes to Tech Hype

00:09:00 Altman Attacks and Backlash

00:13:00 Why AI Feels Threatening

00:18:00 Gen Z Polls and Trust Gap

00:29:00 Reese Witherspoon AI Pushback

00:35:00 Hype Desk Returns

00:36:00 RAM Apocalypse and Wikifeet

00:39:00 Coachella Livestream Era

00:43:00 Ticketmaster Monopoly Verdict

00:47:00 MacBook Neo Spurs Microsoft

00:49:00 OpenAI Clouds and Copilot Backlash

00:51:00 Windows vs Mac Value Shift

00:54:00 The Pricing Apocalypse Hits

00:55:00 Why YouTube Premium Costs More

01:02:00 Lightning Round

01:03:00 Brendan Carr is a Dummy

01:07:00 NFL Antitrust Exemption Fight

01:15:00 Amazon Buys Globalstar

01:22:00 FCC Router Ban Chaos

01:27:00 Trump Phone Gets Realer

01:31:00 Neuralink Bet

01:32:00 Wrap Up

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During the height of the cryptocurrency craze a few years ago, the actor Ben McKenzie found himself wondering why no one else was seeing what he was seeing. He joins the show to explain his yearslong attempt to understand Bitcoin and the crypto world, all of which is in his new documentary Everyone Is Lying to You For Money. (You can probably guess how he feels.) After that, The Verge's Victoria Song tells us about her testing of continuous glucose monitors, which have gone from medical device to influencer trend in some worrying ways. Finally, we answer a question from the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email [email protected]!) about why all our gadgets seem the same these days.

Vote for The Vergecast in the Webby Awards! A vote for The Vergecast is a vote that Brendan Carr is a dummy, that buttons are good, and that party speakers rule the world. Voting is open until April 16.  https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/shows/technology

Further reading:

• Everyone is Lying to You for Money

• 
  Low interest rates and loneliness: the origins of the pandemic crypto boom
  

• 
  Continuous glucose monitoring made me continuously crazy

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Sprinkler Duty Intro

00:03:00 Ben McKenzie Crypto Journey

00:04:00 Is Crypto Really Money

00:09:00 El Salvador Reality Check

00:11:00 Could Crypto Ever Work

00:14:00 Crypto Culture

00:19:00 Casino Capitalism And Crime

00:23:00 Why Bitcoin Keeps Rising

00:30:00 CGMs Explained

00:32:00 FDA OTC And Wellness Boom

00:33:00 Government Push For Wearables

00:39:00 Longevity Wearables Boom

00:41:00 Why Try CGMs

00:44:00 Scary Readings Doctor Visit

00:47:00 Living in the Data

00:48:00 Apps Scores Calibration

00:51:00 Disordered Eating Spiral

00:54:00 No Consensus for Non Diabetics

00:57:00 Medication Tradeoffs

01:00:00 Wellness vs Medical Regulation

01:04:00 Using CGMs Thoughtfully

01:10:00 Vergecast hotline

01:11:00 Why Gadgets Got Bland

01:22:00 Final Thoughts

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In a week filled with important news about important people, David and Nilay start the show with the biggest news of all: their silly tech projects. After some updates on iMac repurposing and vibe-coded productivity tools, the hosts turn to the state of OpenAI, and the big story from The New Yorker about whether we should trust CEO Sam Altman with the future of AI. After that, it's time for the lightning round, with the latest Brendan Carr is a Dummy shenanigans, and the New York Times' latest attempt to identify Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin. Is it, in fact, Adam Back? And does it even matter?

Vote for The Vergecast in the Webby Awards! A vote for The Vergecast is a vote that Brendan Carr is a dummy, that buttons are good, and that party speakers rule the world. Voting is open until April 16.  ⁠https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/shows/technology⁠

Further reading:

• ⁠First photos of solar eclipse from Artemis II crew look almost too good to be real ⁠

• ⁠Artemis II astronauts break a record, name a crater ⁠

• ⁠Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? | The New Yorker⁠

• ⁠The vibes are off at OpenAI ⁠

• ⁠Sam Altman is “unconstrained by truth.” ⁠

• ⁠OpenAI’s AGI boss is taking a leave of absence ⁠

• ⁠OpenAI made economic proposals — here’s what DC thinks of them⁠

• ⁠CNN Defends Authenticity Of Iranian “Victory” Statement After Donald Trump Posts Irate Claim It Was A “Fraud”⁠

• From The New York Times: ⁠Who Is Satoshi Nakamoto? My Quest to Unmask Bitcoin’s Creator⁠

• ⁠The latest Satoshi Nakamoto unmasking. ⁠

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

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Cookie banners — those pop-ups that appear on practically every webpage demanding you accept their tracking systems — are one of the most consistent low-grade annoyances of life online. But Kate Klonick, a professor and writer, argues they're actually much worse than that, and the only plausible solution is to get rid of them entirely. After that, The Verge's Allison Johnson tells us about her AI-enhanced Google Maps experience, and why the new Ask Maps feature has the potential to be both incredibly cool and incredibly creepy. Then, she helps David answer a question from the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email ⁠[email protected]⁠!) about whether E Ink phones might solve all our problems.

Vote for The Vergecast in the Webby Awards! A vote for The Vergecast is a vote that Brendan Carr is a dummy, that buttons are good, and that party speakers rule the world. Voting is open until April 16.  ⁠https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/shows/technology⁠

Further reading:

• ⁠Ban Cookie Banners: A Case Study in Tech Regulation by Kate Klonick⁠

• ⁠Kate’s website⁠

• ⁠Google Maps is getting AI-powered ‘Ask Maps’ feature and more immersive navigation ⁠

• ⁠I let Gemini in Google Maps plan my day and it went surprisingly well ⁠

• ⁠TCL’s new Nxtpaper phones have a dedicated button for maximum monochrome ⁠

• ⁠Boox Palma 2 Pro review: one step forward, one step back ⁠

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

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