According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.

In 2007, Bee Movie hit theaters with a strange plot and was considered a box office flop. Nearly two decades later, it’s somehow more relevant than ever, not because of the movie itself, but because of what happened next. The script became a meme, then a prank, then, eventually, a tool for protest.

In this episode, host Morgan Sung traces the evolution of bait-and-switch memes, from early internet shock images to the rise of the “Never Gonna Give You Up” rickroll, all the way to TikTok-era pranks that burn out as quickly as they go viral. Along the way, she talks to Bee Movie co-writer Spike Feresten about how the film became an unlikely internet icon, and to digital rhetoric expert Bret Strauch about what makes a meme actually stick.

Guests:

Spike Feresten, screenwriter and comedian

Bret Strauch, assistant professor of digital media, University of Colorado Boulder

Further Reading/Listening:

Behind the scenes content on the making of this episode!

MEMES, Part 3: Gotta make you understand — Endless Thread

A Complete History of Bee Movie’s Many, Many Memes — Paris Martineau, Intelligencer

Why Did Bee Movie Become A Meme? — Joshua Kristian McCoy, GameRant

The Josh Hutcherson ‘Whistle’ edit meme, explained — Ana Diaz, Polygon

‘His courage our own’: This Charlie Kirk tribute song is blowing up on Spotify. Was it made by a human—or AI? — Braden Bjella, The Mary Sue 

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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What do pissed off farmers and broken McFlurry machines have to do with each other? More than you’d think. Both are part of the story behind the modern right-to-repair movement. In this episode, Jason Koebler, tech journalist and co-founder at 404 Media, explains how an unlikely alliance between Midwestern farmers and electronics repair technicians helped win right-to repair protections across multiple states — and why the farmers’ fight to fix their own tractors is far from over. 

Guest:

Jason Koebler, tech journalist and co-founder of 404 Media

Further Reading/Listening:

It Is Now Legal to Hack McFlurry Machines (and Medical Devices) to Fix Them — Jason Koebler, 404 Media  

The Walls Are Closing in on John Deere’s Tractor Repair Monopoly — Jason Koebler, 404 Media

EPA Affirms Farmers’ Right to Repair — Lisa Held, Civil Eats

The Latest Repair Battlefield Is the Iowa Farmlands—Again — Boone Ashworth, Wired 

How John Deere hijacked copyright law to keep you from tinkering with your tractor — Luke Hogg, Reason Magazine 

Tractor-Hacking Farmers Are Leading a Revolt Against Big Tech's Repair Monopolies — Jason Koebler, Vice 

Why American Farmers Are Hacking Their Tractors With Ukrainian Firmware — Jason Koebler, Vice

Read the Transcript here

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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Today’s culture of overconsumption urges us to simply throw broken items away and buy new ones. But there’s a growing shift to treat non-working devices differently. In this episode, we dig into the “right to repair” movement with Louis Rossmann, a repair technician, YouTuber and consumer rights advocate. Rossmann has spent years pushing back against the companies that make our devices harder, or even impossible, to fix. From parts pairing to “authorized repair” loopholes, we unpack how tech companies maintain control over the products you’ve already paid for. As devices like phones and even cars move toward subscription-based use models, we examine the question ‘do you truly own something if you can’t repair it?’

Guest:

Louis Rossmann, repair technician and advocate at Rossman Repair Group

Further Reading/Listening:

The Gloves Are Off in the Fight for Your Right to Repair — Boone Ashworth, WIRED

Apple founder Steve Wozniak backs right-to-repair movement — BBC

Clippy is back—this time as a mascot for Big Tech protests — Eve Upton-Clark, Fast Company

Wheelchair Users Are Finally Winning the Right to Repair — Julia Métraux, Mother Jones

A Growing ‘Right to Repair’ Culture in California — Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, KQED’s The Bay

Read the Transcript here

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A legal loophole has led to a surge in single-use vapes packed with a surprising amount of electronic components. It’s also a glimpse into how our disposable tech habits are fueling a growing e-waste problem. In this episode, tech reporter Samatha Cole shares what happened when she tried to “vape the internet” after seeing a viral post about a disposable touchscreen vape with built-in social media. We also hear from environmental philosopher and public health researcher Yogi Hale Hendlin, who explains how flavored vape bans have led to the flood of high-tech disposables — and how tackling the e-waste crisis will take a radical rethink of our relationship with the products we consume.

This episode first aired on April 16th, 2025 

Guests:

Samantha Cole, reporter and co-founder of 404 Media

Yogi Hale Hendlin, environmental philosopher and assistant professor at Erasmus University

Further Reading:

I Tried to Vape the Internet – Samantha Cole, 404 Media 

Communities can't recycle or trash disposable e-cigarettes. So what happens to them? – Matthew Perrone, Associated Press

How ‘Sour Raspberry Gummy Bear’ — and Other Chinese Vapes — Made Fools of American Lawmakers –  Marc Novicoff, Politico 

The right to repair electronics is now law in 3 states. Is Big Tech complying? – Maddie Stone, Grist  

Disposable vapes thrown away quadruples to 5 M per week – Material Focus

Read the transcript here

Email us at ⁠[email protected]⁠

Follow us on⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠ and⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠⁠

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music.  Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Requiring internet users to verify their ages before accessing mature content may sound reasonable. Shouldn’t we be doing a better job protecting kids from online vulgarities? But free speech advocates say the push for age verification isn’t really about protecting children — and that bills like the Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA) would open the door to greater surveillance, censorship and control of what people can do online. Those same free speech advocates say the evidence lies in what happened to sex workers after the passage of the bills known as Allow States and Victims To Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA) and the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act (SESTA) in 2018. 

In this episode, Morgan is joined by writer, researcher and dominatrix Dr. Olivia Snow and Mashable associate editor Anna Iovine to explore the connections between porn, sex work and surveillance — and what age verification laws could mean for the future of the internet. 

Guests: 

Dr. Olivia Snow, research fellow at UCLA’s Center on Resilience & Digital Justice

Anna Iovine, associate editor of features at Mashable

Further Reading/Listening:

Age verification is going to destroy the entire internet — Anna Iovine, Mashable

Are You Ready to Be Surveilled Like A Sex Worker? — Dr. Olivia Snow, WIRED

Sex Workers Have Been Banned From Airbnb for Years. Will You Be Next? — Dr. Olivia Snow, The Nation

Discord delays age verification measures as it admits what it got 'wrong' — Austin Manchester, Polygon

FOSTA-SESTA was supposed to thwart sex trafficking. Instead, it’s sparked a movement — Liz Tung, WHYY 

The Internet Loves Sex. Why Does it Hate Sex Workers? — Luna, The Swaddle

When social media censorship gets it wrong: The struggle of breast cancer content creators  — Savannah Kuchar, USA Today

What would ethical age verification look like online? — Anna Iovine, Mashable

Project 2025 Co-Author Caught Admitting Secret Conservative Plan to Ban Porn  — Shawn Musgrave, The Intercept

Going Viral vs. Going Dark: Why Extremism Trends and Abortion Content Gets Censored — Kenyatta Thomas, Electronic Frontier Foundation: Stop Censoring Abortion Campaign 

FCC finds no violations in Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl halftime show at Levi’s Stadium — Aidin Vaziri, San Francisco Chronicle 

Read the Transcript here

Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Roblox is one of the most popular gaming platforms for kids, with millions of young gamers playing user-created games. It’s also been heavily criticized for its track record on child safety, and is now facing more than 80 lawsuits alleging child abuse and grooming. In response, the company recently rolled out a new safety measure: AI-powered facial age verification that restricts who players can talk with. The reception from players has been anything but warm.

In this episode, host Morgan Sung is joined by youth mental health reporter Rachel Hale, who explains how predators operate on the platform, why everyone seems to hate Roblox’s new AI age verification feature, and the incredible lengths some users are willing to go to get around it. And while Roblox says age verification is about improving safety, questions have emerged about its accuracy, digital privacy and how this move impacts the broader push for age verification across the internet.

Guest: Rachel Hale, youth mental health reporter at USA Today

Further Reading/Listening:

I got an up-close look at Roblox's new safety feature. Here's what I found. — Rachel Hale, USA Today

She just wanted to play Roblox with friends. Then the messages from a predator began. — Rachel Hale, USA Today  

Can social media age verification really protect kids? — Rina Chandran, Rest Of World 

Roblox's age verification system is reportedly a trainwreck — Will Shanklin, Engadget   

Read the Transcript here

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you going through “a very Chinese time in your life”? If so, maybe you’re one of the many American social media users who’ve jumped on the Chinamaxxing trend (or…you’re Chinese). But it’s more than just slippers in the house and hot water at breakfast — as Western netizens experience increased surveillance and censorship across internet platforms, they are ironically turning to one of the most repressive regimes in the world for respite. On today’s episode, Morgan talks to Yi-Ling Liu, author of The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet, about the Chinese government’s history of internet censorship, how online creativity has still flourished inside China’s “walled garden,” and what Americans have to learn from our neighbors in the East. 

Guest: Yi-Ling Liu, writer and editor

Further Reading/Listening:

The Wall Dancers Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet — Yi-Ling Liu

How a Dating App Helped a Generation of Chinese Come Out of the Closet — Yi-Ling Liu, The New York Times Magazine

Why Everyone Is Suddenly in a ‘Very Chinese Time’ in Their Lives — Zeyi Yang and Louise Matsakis, Wired 

TikTok censorship claims spark California probe of app's handling of anti-Trump content —  Kevin Collier and Bruna Horvath, NBC News 

Why TikTok’s first week of American ownership was a disaster —  Blake Montgomery, The Guardian

China’s biggest gay dating app wants to beat Grindr — Viola Zhou and Andrew Deck, Rest of World

Two of China’s most popular gay dating apps have disappeared from app stores — Chris Lau and Steven Jiang, CNN 

Read the Transcript here

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In honor of Valentine’s Day, we’re bringing you an episode about love. We start with TikTok creator Jojo Manzo, who turned his late-night doomscrolling into a matchmaking experiment when he invited thousands of strangers to flirt in his comment section. Then we talk to Maria Avgitidis, a third-generation matchmaker, about why friction, community, and a little discomfort might actually be the point of dating. And finally, we get to the physical … or, at least, geographical. When you find someone you care about, do you share your location with them? Is it intimacy, convenience, surveillance or all three? We explore what it looks like to find human connection in a deeply digital world.

Guests:

Maria Avgitidis Pyrgiotakis, matchmaker and CEO of Agapematch

Jojo Manzo, musician and content creator

Friends of Close All Tabs: Mandy Seiner and Jackson Maxwell,  Anna Iovine, Tanya Chen, Amanda Silberling,  Harriet Weber,  and Taj Weaver

Further Reading/Listening:

You Don’t Need to Swipe Right. A.I. Is Transforming Dating Apps — Eli Tan, The New York Times

To Share or Not to Share? How Location Sharing Is Changing Our Relationships — Modern Love Podcast

‘Perfection without the connection’: How AI is becoming a digital wingman — Hani Richter, Reuters

The Doomed Dream of an AI Matchmaker — Faith Hill, The Atlantic

Ask A Matchmaker: Matchmaker Maria’s No Nonsense Guide to Finding Love — Maria Avgitidis, Matchmaker Maria

Is U-Hauling Real? Here's What's Behind The Lesbian Stereotype — Lea Rose Emery, Bustle

What's The Deal With U-Haul Lesbians? — Kira Deshler, Paging Dr. Lesbian

Read the transcript here.

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Picture this… You move to a cozy home in an idyllic neighborhood: fresh air and birdsong in the morning and gorgeous sunsets at night. One day, you wake up to find an AI data center is being built right across the street. Your view of trees turns into piles of dirt, the songbird’s trill replaced by the hum of machinery. That’s the reality for many Atlanta metro area residents right now, facing an explosion of AI data center construction. 

 In this episode, Morgan is joined by reporters DorMiya Vance and Marlon Hyde from WABE in Atlanta. Vance and Hyde recently looked into why so many companies are targeting the Atlanta suburbs for their builds. They’ll break down what this means for the infrastructure of local energy companies,  how to contextualize this trend within the historical strain placed on predominately Black communities, and what can be done to prepare for “stranded assets” if the bubble bursts. 

Guests:

DorMiya Vance, Southside reporter at WABE

Marlon Hyde, business reporter at WABE

Further Reading/Listening:

Data centers power our online lives. The business is growing faster in metro Atlanta than anywhere else in the US — Marlon Hyde, WABE

South Atlanta residents brace for major data center development — DorMiya Vance, WABE

Microsoft vows to cover full power costs for energy-hungry AI data centers — Benj Edwards, Ars Technica  

After a White Town Rejected a Data Center, Developers Targeted a Black Area — Adam Mahoney, Capital B

A Historic Black Community Takes On the World's Richest Man Over Environmental Racism — Adam Mahoney, Capital B

The People Say No: Resisting Data Centers in the South — Media Justice

Data centers spark a ‘fight for the soul’ of this mostly Black Maryland county — Lateshia Beachum, The Washington Post

Georgia leads push to ban datacenters used to power America’s AI boom — Timothy Pratt, The Guardian

Read the transcript here.

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How much does your own AI use matter? With all the warnings about AI’s adverse impact on the environment, it can be tough to understand what that means at the individual level. In this episode, Morgan breaks down the hidden costs of generative AI into something more relatable: microwave time. She’s joined by MIT Technology Review reporters Casey Crownhart and James O’Donnell, who spent months investigating how much energy and water AI systems actually use.

Together, they unpack how AI models are trained and which ones are more resource-intensive, what effect the expansion of AI data centers has on local energy grids and just how much electricity it takes when we ask AI to generate text, images and videos.

Guests:

Casey Crownhart, senior climate reporter at MIT Technology Review

James O'Donnell, senior AI reporter at MIT Technology Review

Further Reading:

We did the math on AI’s energy footprint. Here’s the story you haven’t heard. — Casey Crownhart and James O’Donnell, MIT Technology Review

 AI Energy Score v2: Refreshed Leaderboard, now with Reasoning 🧠 — 

Sasha Luccioni and Boris Gamazaychikov, Hugging Face

Stop worrying about your AI footprint. Look at the big picture instead. — Casey Crownhart, MIT Technology Review 

Google says a typical AI text prompt only uses 5 drops of water — experts say that’s misleading — Justine Calma, The Verge

Read the Transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How easy is it to find someone from a single video posted online? To find out, Morgan put her own privacy to the test. She asked TikTok creator JoseMonkey, who’s famous for geolocating people who send him videos asking to be found, to track her down. JoseMonkey started as a geolocation hobbyist who turned to creating videos to bring attention to common mistakes people make when posting online. 

In this episode, Morgan breaks down why personal operational security matters and what digital hygiene actually looks like in practice. JoseMonkey walks through how he finds people using the smallest scraps of information, and the steps you can take to make sure you aren’t exposing too much in your posts. And Eva Galperin, cybersecurity director of Electronic Frontier Foundation, explains how to use a process called “threat modeling” to protect your online privacy in a way that’s practical rather than paranoid.

Guests:

Jose Monkey, content creator and online privacy advocate

Eva Galperin, director of cybersecurity at the Electronic Frontier Foundation

Further Reading/Listening:

We partnered with KQED’s audience news team on a companion guide that breaks down online privacy in a clear, shareable format. You can find it, along with other explainers and guides, on KQED’s explainers page.

⁠Have LLMs Finally Mastered Geolocation? — Foeke Postma and Nathan Patin, Bellingcat
Surveillance Self-Defense  — The Electronic Frontier Foundation

How micro-online posting can be a macro privacy risk — JoseMonkey, TedX Talks

Read the transcript ⁠here⁠

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at ⁠[email protected]⁠

Follow us on⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠ and⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices