Are you going through “a very Chinese time in your life”? If so, maybe you’re one of the many American social media users who’ve jumped on the Chinamaxxing trend (or…you’re Chinese). But it’s more than just slippers in the house and hot water at breakfast — as Western netizens experience increased surveillance and censorship across internet platforms, they are ironically turning to one of the most repressive regimes in the world for respite. On today’s episode, Morgan talks to Yi-Ling Liu, author of The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet, about the Chinese government’s history of internet censorship, how online creativity has still flourished inside China’s “walled garden,” and what Americans have to learn from our neighbors in the East. 

Guest: Yi-Ling Liu, writer and editor

Further Reading/Listening:

The Wall Dancers Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet — Yi-Ling Liu

How a Dating App Helped a Generation of Chinese Come Out of the Closet — Yi-Ling Liu, The New York Times Magazine

Why Everyone Is Suddenly in a ‘Very Chinese Time’ in Their Lives — Zeyi Yang and Louise Matsakis, Wired 

TikTok censorship claims spark California probe of app's handling of anti-Trump content —  Kevin Collier and Bruna Horvath, NBC News 

Why TikTok’s first week of American ownership was a disaster —  Blake Montgomery, The Guardian

China’s biggest gay dating app wants to beat Grindr — Viola Zhou and Andrew Deck, Rest of World

Two of China’s most popular gay dating apps have disappeared from app stores — Chris Lau and Steven Jiang, CNN 

Read the Transcript here

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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In honor of Valentine’s Day, we’re bringing you an episode about love. We start with TikTok creator Jojo Manzo, who turned his late-night doomscrolling into a matchmaking experiment when he invited thousands of strangers to flirt in his comment section. Then we talk to Maria Avgitidis, a third-generation matchmaker, about why friction, community, and a little discomfort might actually be the point of dating. And finally, we get to the physical … or, at least, geographical. When you find someone you care about, do you share your location with them? Is it intimacy, convenience, surveillance or all three? We explore what it looks like to find human connection in a deeply digital world.

Guests:

Maria Avgitidis Pyrgiotakis, matchmaker and CEO of Agapematch

Jojo Manzo, musician and content creator

Friends of Close All Tabs: Mandy Seiner and Jackson Maxwell,  Anna Iovine, Tanya Chen, Amanda Silberling,  Harriet Weber,  and Taj Weaver

Further Reading/Listening:

You Don’t Need to Swipe Right. A.I. Is Transforming Dating Apps — Eli Tan, The New York Times

To Share or Not to Share? How Location Sharing Is Changing Our Relationships — Modern Love Podcast

‘Perfection without the connection’: How AI is becoming a digital wingman — Hani Richter, Reuters

The Doomed Dream of an AI Matchmaker — Faith Hill, The Atlantic

Ask A Matchmaker: Matchmaker Maria’s No Nonsense Guide to Finding Love — Maria Avgitidis, Matchmaker Maria

Is U-Hauling Real? Here's What's Behind The Lesbian Stereotype — Lea Rose Emery, Bustle

What's The Deal With U-Haul Lesbians? — Kira Deshler, Paging Dr. Lesbian

Read the transcript here.

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional producing support by Gabriela Glueck. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Director of Content Operations. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Picture this… You move to a cozy home in an idyllic neighborhood: fresh air and birdsong in the morning and gorgeous sunsets at night. One day, you wake up to find an AI data center is being built right across the street. Your view of trees turns into piles of dirt, the songbird’s trill replaced by the hum of machinery. That’s the reality for many Atlanta metro area residents right now, facing an explosion of AI data center construction. 

 In this episode, Morgan is joined by reporters DorMiya Vance and Marlon Hyde from WABE in Atlanta. Vance and Hyde recently looked into why so many companies are targeting the Atlanta suburbs for their builds. They’ll break down what this means for the infrastructure of local energy companies,  how to contextualize this trend within the historical strain placed on predominately Black communities, and what can be done to prepare for “stranded assets” if the bubble bursts. 

Guests:

DorMiya Vance, Southside reporter at WABE

Marlon Hyde, business reporter at WABE

Further Reading/Listening:

Data centers power our online lives. The business is growing faster in metro Atlanta than anywhere else in the US — Marlon Hyde, WABE

South Atlanta residents brace for major data center development — DorMiya Vance, WABE

Microsoft vows to cover full power costs for energy-hungry AI data centers — Benj Edwards, Ars Technica  

After a White Town Rejected a Data Center, Developers Targeted a Black Area — Adam Mahoney, Capital B

A Historic Black Community Takes On the World's Richest Man Over Environmental Racism — Adam Mahoney, Capital B

The People Say No: Resisting Data Centers in the South — Media Justice

Data centers spark a ‘fight for the soul’ of this mostly Black Maryland county — Lateshia Beachum, The Washington Post

Georgia leads push to ban datacenters used to power America’s AI boom — Timothy Pratt, The Guardian

Read the transcript here.

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How much does your own AI use matter? With all the warnings about AI’s adverse impact on the environment, it can be tough to understand what that means at the individual level. In this episode, Morgan breaks down the hidden costs of generative AI into something more relatable: microwave time. She’s joined by MIT Technology Review reporters Casey Crownhart and James O’Donnell, who spent months investigating how much energy and water AI systems actually use.

Together, they unpack how AI models are trained and which ones are more resource-intensive, what effect the expansion of AI data centers has on local energy grids and just how much electricity it takes when we ask AI to generate text, images and videos.

Guests:

Casey Crownhart, senior climate reporter at MIT Technology Review

James O'Donnell, senior AI reporter at MIT Technology Review

Further Reading:

We did the math on AI’s energy footprint. Here’s the story you haven’t heard. — Casey Crownhart and James O’Donnell, MIT Technology Review

 AI Energy Score v2: Refreshed Leaderboard, now with Reasoning 🧠 — 

Sasha Luccioni and Boris Gamazaychikov, Hugging Face

Stop worrying about your AI footprint. Look at the big picture instead. — Casey Crownhart, MIT Technology Review 

Google says a typical AI text prompt only uses 5 drops of water — experts say that’s misleading — Justine Calma, The Verge

Read the Transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How easy is it to find someone from a single video posted online? To find out, Morgan put her own privacy to the test. She asked TikTok creator JoseMonkey, who’s famous for geolocating people who send him videos asking to be found, to track her down. JoseMonkey started as a geolocation hobbyist who turned to creating videos to bring attention to common mistakes people make when posting online. 

In this episode, Morgan breaks down why personal operational security matters and what digital hygiene actually looks like in practice. JoseMonkey walks through how he finds people using the smallest scraps of information, and the steps you can take to make sure you aren’t exposing too much in your posts. And Eva Galperin, cybersecurity director of Electronic Frontier Foundation, explains how to use a process called “threat modeling” to protect your online privacy in a way that’s practical rather than paranoid.

Guests:

Jose Monkey, content creator and online privacy advocate

Eva Galperin, director of cybersecurity at the Electronic Frontier Foundation

Further Reading/Listening:

We partnered with KQED’s audience news team on a companion guide that breaks down online privacy in a clear, shareable format. You can find it, along with other explainers and guides, on KQED’s explainers page.

⁠Have LLMs Finally Mastered Geolocation? — Foeke Postma and Nathan Patin, Bellingcat
Surveillance Self-Defense  — The Electronic Frontier Foundation

How micro-online posting can be a macro privacy risk — JoseMonkey, TedX Talks

Read the transcript ⁠here⁠

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at ⁠[email protected]⁠

Follow us on⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠ and⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer Jonathan Ross shot and killed Renee Good in Minneapolis, it became an instant flashpoint in the ongoing escalation of federal law enforcement violence. It also put a spotlight on the U.S. government’s efforts to prevent people from documenting federal agents in public.

In this episode, we dig into a simple but important question: do you have the right to record ICE? Criminal justice reporter C.J. Ciaramella explains how the Trump administration is working to create a chilling effect around filming law enforcement, why legal challenges are intensifying, and how courts are increasingly pushing back.

Guests:

C.J. Ciaramella, Criminal Justice Reporter at Reason

Further Reading/Listening:

ICE officer fatally shoots driver through car window in Minneapolis — Max Nesterak, Madison McVan and Alyssa Chen, The Minnesota Reformer 

The Trump administration says it's illegal to record videos of ICE. Here's what the law says. — C.J. Ciaramella, Reason 

DHS says recording or following law enforcement 'sure sounds like obstruction of justice' —  C.J. Ciaramella, Reason  

Recording the Police: Tips for Safety and Awareness — Carly Severn and Mina Kim, KQED

DHS Claims Videotaping ICE Raids Is ‘Violence’ — Matthew Cunningham-Cook, The American Prospect

ICE detains U.S. citizen for 7 hours after she photographed agents in Oregon — Yesenia Amaro, The Oregonian 

Dozens of felony cases crumble in DOJ push to punish protesters — Michael Biesecker, Jamie Ding, Christine Fernando, Claire Rush, and Ryan J. Foley, The Associated Press 

What Happens When Federal Officers Use Force — Miranda Jeyaretnam, TIME 

California is banning masks for federal agents. Here’s why it could lose in court —  Nigel Duara, CalMatters

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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In a holiday installment of Save or Scroll, Morgan and the Close All Tabs team get together to talk over the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From OpenAI’s concerning new job posting, to a major RAM shortage, AI artists on the come up, and an antidote to the Manosphere, they’ve got a lot to chew on.

Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?

Guests:

Morgan Sung, Host of Close All Tabs

Chris Egusa, Senior Editor of Close All Tabs

Maya Cueva, Producer of Close All Tabs

Chris Hambrick, Editor of Close All Tabs

Further Reading/Listening:

Sam Altman is hiring someone to worry about the dangers of AI — Terrence O'Brien, The Verge

Why OpenAI's $555,000 Head of Preparedness Role May Be Hard to Fill — Sarah E. Needleman, Business Insider

Memory loss: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise — John Ruwitch, NPR

Why is RAM so expensive right now? It's way more complicated than you think — Wayne Williams, TechRadar

AI Singer Xania Monet Just Charted On Billboard, Signed $3 Million Deal. Is This The Future Of Music? — Doug Melville, Forbes

How Many AI Artists Have Debuted on Billboard’s Charts? — Xander Zellner, Billboard

The ‘Manosphere’? It’s Planet Earth. — Joseph Bernstein, The New York Times

“2024 self interviewing my 2025 self” — @seanjaye1988, Instagram Reel

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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When KitKat, a beloved bodega cat, was killed by a Waymo in San Francisco in late October of this year, the incident quickly went viral. It ignited grief and outrage. It also renewed scrutiny of autonomous vehicles. But in a city where hundreds of animals are hit by vehicles each year, why did this incident — and this particular cat — hit such a nerve?

We hear from Oscar Palma, the first reporter on the scene, about what unfolded the night KitKat was killed. Then, Mission Local managing editor Joe Eskenazi and KQED reporter Sydney Johnson explore the limits of autonomous vehicles and why one cat’s death resonated so deeply in a rapidly gentrifying San Francisco.

Guests:

Sydney Johnson, reporter at KQED

Oscar Palma, reporter at Mission Local

Joe Eskenazi, managing editor at Mission Local

Further Reading/ Listening:

KitKat, liquor store mascot and ‘16th St. ambassador,’ killed — allegedly by Waymo — Oscar Palma, Mission Local 

San Francisco Supervisor Calls for Robotaxi Reform After Waymo Kills Neighborhood Cat — Sydney Johnson, KQED

How Kit Kat Was Killed: Video Shows What a Waymo Couldn’t See — Heather Knight, The New York Times 

Driverless car startup Cruise's no good, terrible year — Dara Kerr, NPR

Cruise admits lying to feds about dragging woman in San Francisco — Kevin Truong, The San Francisco Standard

Waymo hits dog in S.F. weeks after killing Mission bodega cat — Kelly Waldron, Mission Local

Dog hit by Waymo in SF put down by family after suffering 'severe pelvic trauma' — Alex Baker, KRON4

The self-driving taxi revolution begins at last — The Economist 

Read the transcript here

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On December 4, 2024, United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson was shot and killed outside a Midtown New York hotel. The subsequent arrest of 26-year-old Luigi Mangione set off a frenzy far beyond a typical breaking news story. Almost immediately, supporters emerged, detractors pushed back and then something stranger took hold: a devoted fandom that treated Mangione not just as a suspect, but as a symbol.

One year later, we look at how a single crime became a cultural flashpoint and how narratives built around Magione are shaping public perception. Investigative journalist Melkorka Licea unpacks the different factions of Mangione’s online supporters. Then, legal expert Daniel Medwed helps Morgan understand the challenges of selecting a fair jury in an era when high-profile cases unfold in real time across millions of screens.

Guests:

Melkorka Licea, investigative journalist 

Daniel Medwed, professor of law at Northeastern University

Further Reading/Listening:

Inside the Contentious World of Luigi Mangione Supporters — 

Melkorka Licea, WIRED

Luigi Mangione Hearing Hits on 3D Gun, Never-Before-Heard 911 Call, Comparisons to the Unabomber — Lorena O’Neil, Rolling Stone

Slain UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson's tenure was marked by rocketing profits—and accusations of insider trading and coverage denial  — Sasha Rogelberg, Fortune

Luigi is Currently Reading: What Can We Really Learn About the UHC CEO’s Alleged Killer Based on the Books He’s Read? — James Folta, Literary Hub

Luigi Mangione’s ‘Loafers,’ ‘Outfit’ and ‘Ankles’ Go Viral as His Unexpected Fashion Influence Persists After Latest Court Appearance — Renan Botelho, WWD

Meet the ‘Cougars for Luigi Mangione’ — and new fans of the alleged killer — Josie Ensor, The Times

What is jury nullification and what does it mean for Luigi Mangione’s defense? — Eric Levenson, CNN

Grand jury declines to indict the 88-year-old white woman whose false accusations led to Emmett Till's death in 1955 — Haven Orecchio-Egresitz, Business Insider

Read the transcript here

Email: [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram and TikTok

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa and edited by Jen Chien. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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Editor’s note: We updated one line to add context about a character in one of the Purple Moon games, which may affect how the character is understood.

Thirty years ago, video games were predominantly marketed to boys. Nintendo and Sega ran TV ads featuring boys proclaiming how “awesome” and “powerful” the latest system was. And the biggest computer games tended to revolve around male-coded activities like shooting or combat. But in the late ‘90s, a small indie game studio called Purple Moon set out to change that — creating story-rich, emotionally complex games designed to welcome girls into the world of computers.

In this episode, Close All Tabs producer Maya Cueva looks back on her own childhood experience with Purple Moon and talks with founder Brenda Laurel about the company’s legacy, its impact on girls in tech, and how it all came to an abrupt end.

Guest:

Brenda Laurel, interactive games designer, creator and founder of Purple Moon

Further Reading:

The ‘Girl Games’ of the ’90s Were Fun and Feminist — Drew Dakessian, WIRED 

Conscious UX: Leading Human-Centered Design in the Age of AI: Designing the Future of Artificial Intelligence with Compassion, Inclusion, and Openness — Rikki Teeters, Don Norman, Brenda Laurel 

Brenda Laurel — Christopher Weaver, Smithsonian Institution, Lemelson Center for The Study of Invention and Innovation 

Trailblazing Women in Video Gaming: Meet the Pioneers Who Shaped Design History — D.S. Cohen, Lifewire

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the series? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

You can also follow us on Instagram

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was reported and produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Hambrick and Chris Egusa. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Ukraine-Russia war has been called the most technologically advanced war in history. Ukrainian citizens receive notifications about incoming missile and drone attacks through apps on their phones; remote-controlled drones swarm the front lines; and volunteer cyberwarfare units target Russian digital infrastructure. It’s all part of what some have dubbed Ukraine’s “Geeks of War.”

In this episode, investigative reporter Erica Hellerstein takes us to the digital front line. On a recent trip to Ukraine, she met a husband-and-wife duo running a DIY nonprofit that supplies tech to defense forces, toured the recently-bombed headquarters of one of the country’s biggest tech companies, and explored how a swarm of online accounts with Shiba Inu avatars is countering Russian propaganda.

Throughout, she looks at how Ukraine’s culture of tech innovation — and its surprising ties to Silicon Valley — are fueling the country’s resistance through an army of engineers, coders, hackers, and tinkerers.

Guest:

Erica Hellerstein, investigative journalist and feature writer

Further Reading/Listening:

Dexter Filkins on Drones and the Future of Warfare⁠ — Adam Howard, WNYC

⁠Lessons From the World’s First Full-Scale Cyberwar⁠ — David Kirichenko, Kyiv Post

⁠Russia Takes Its Ukraine Information War Into Video Games⁠ — Steven Lee Myers and Kellen Browning, The New York Times

⁠Why Ukraine remains the world's most innovative war machine⁠ — Ibrahim Naber, Politico

⁠A Thousand Snipers in the Sky: The New War in Ukraine⁠ — Marc Santora, Lara Jakes, Andrew E. Kramer, Marco Hernandez and Liubov Sholudko, The New York Times

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the series? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

You can also follow us on Instagram

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was reported by Erica Hellerstein. It was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa and Jen Chien. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices