During a recent phone call,  BBC tech columnist Thomas Germain couldn’t convince his aunt that he wasn’t AI. Being unable to distinguish a real person from a fabricated version is a problem born from the sheer volume of AI-generated content flooding the internet — and one that’s increased dramatically in the last year alone. Even world leaders are now plagued by the issue: a glitchy video of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sparked an enduring conspiracy theory that he was really dead and his public appearances on social media were an AI-driven cover up.

In a world where everything looks fake, how do we know what’s real? Thomas joins the show to explain how we got here, where we might be headed, and a surprisingly analog technique that could save you from getting scammed by a deepfaked version of a loved one.

Guest:

Thomas Germain, co-host of the podcast The Interface, and tech columnist at the BBC.

Further Reading/Listening:

I tried to prove I'm not AI. My aunt wasn't convinced — Thomas Germain, BBC

The Interface Podcast — BBC

Benjamin Netanyahu is struggling to prove he’s not an AI clone  — Jess Weatherbed, The Verge

Cascade of A.I. Fakes About War With Iran Causes Chaos Online — Stuart A. Thompson and Alexander Cardia, The New York Times 

AI is intensifying a 'collapse' of trust online, experts say — Angela Yang, NBC News

Deepfakes, Elections, and Shrinking the Liar’s Dividend — Josh A. Goldstein, Brennan Center for Justice

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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When JetBlue replied to an angry customer on X that they should clear their cookies for a better flight price, it seemed to confirm a long-held consumer belief: companies use your personal data to determine what you should pay in real-time based on your urgency, habits and identity. It’s what’s known as surveillance pricing. According to economic sociologist Lindsay Owens, the practice is rampant. She says companies have been investing for years in sophisticated tools meant to squeeze every last dollar out of consumers — and for the most part, it’s legal. Lindsay joins Morgan to talk about how we got here, the U.S. laws designed to fight back against surveillance pricing and what you can personally do to sidestep the practice.

Guest:

Lindsay Owens, executive director of Groundwork Collaborative

Further Reading:

The Tiger Mom Tax: Asians Are Nearly Twice as Likely to Get a Higher Price from Princeton Review — Julia Angwin, Surya Mattu and Jeff Larson, Pro Publica

The hidden way using a rewards card can cost you more — Geoffrey A. Fowler, Washington Post

Issue Spotlight: The Rise of Surveillance Pricing — FTC Staff, Federal Trade Commission

Why surveillance pricing bans are suddenly gaining traction this year (and not just in California) — Khari Johnson, CalMatters

Influencers are peddling 'the library hack' as a way to score cheaper flights. Whether it works is beside the point — Grace Snelling, Fast Company

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional production help from Francesca Fenzi. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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For three weeks, all eyes were on a salacious courtroom drama unfolding in Oakland, California. The Musk v. Altman trial had everything you’d expect from a favorite soap opera: Backstabbing? Check! Secret diary entries? Check! Pleading text messages? Check! And two billionaire buddies turned rivals duking it out over who did or did not steal a charity. Morgan and KQED’s Rachel Myrow explore the trial highlights, outcome and the big question: what was it all for?

Guests:

Rachael Myrow, senior editor, Silicon Valley News Desk at KQED

Further Reading/Listening:

Federal Court Rules Against Elon Musk in His Bitter Feud With Sam Altman — Katie DeBenedetti and Rachael Myrow, KQED

Everyone at the Musk v. Altman Trial Is Using Fancy Butt Cushions — Paresh Dave, WIRED

Musk v. Altman proved that AI is led by the wrong people — Hayden Field, The Verge

Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? — Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz, The New Yorker

Advice for 2026 commencement speakers: Don't bring up AI — Jude Joffe-Block and Michelle Aslam, NPR

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Email us at [email protected]
Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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AI-generated Lego videos have become a tool of war. Since the U.S.-Israel war with Iran began in late February, increasingly elaborate videos featuring LEGO figures and catchy rap lyrics have been flooding our feeds. They're shareable, surprisingly high quality and they're deeply critical of the U.S. and Trump. They're also propaganda.

Welcome to the age of "slopaganda" — where AI Slop meets information warfare.

Michał Klincewicz, assistant professor of computational cognitive science, joins Morgan to break down the rise of slopaganda, what it's doing to our information ecosystem and why the U.S. is losing the meme war.

Guest:

Michał Klincewicz, assistant professor of computational cognitive science at Tilburg University. 

Further Reading/Listening:

Slopaganda: The interaction between propaganda and generative AI

 — Michal Klincewicz, Mark Alfano, and Amir Ebrahimi Fard, Filosofiska Notiser 

Slopaganda wars: how (and why) the US and Iran are flooding the zone with viral AI-generated noise — Mark Alfano and Michal Klincewicz, The Conversation

‘Vengeance for all’: How Iran’s Lego videos won narrative war against Trump | US-Israel war on Iran News — Alia Chughtai, Al Jazeera

The Team Behind a Pro-Iran, Lego-Themed Viral-Video Campaign — Kyle Chayka, The New Yorker

YouTube removes pro-Iran channel producing anti-Trump videos — Alex MacDonald, Middle East Eye

‘We want the mullahs gone’: economic crisis sparks biggest protests in Iran since 2022 — Deepa Parent and William Christou, The Guardian 

Read the Transcript ⁠here⁠

Email us at ⁠[email protected]⁠

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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We’re diving into the world of nonconsensual deepfake porn and why this problem reaches far beyond influencers and sex workers.

When users on X started asking Grok to generate explicit images of real women and girls without their consent, Twitch streamer and OnlyFans creator Morgpie watched the harassment spiral in real time. Cosplayer and software engineer Zander Small saw firsthand how nonconsensual images affected his girlfriend, a SFW creator, and her friends. The two decided to team up to build tools that help creators detect leaks, remove deepfakes, and reclaim control over their images online.

Note: This episode contains mentions of gender-based violence and nonconsensual intimate imagery, which may be triggering for some listeners.

Guests:

Morgpie, OnlyFans creator and cofounder of Fanlock

Zander Small, content creator and cofounder of Fanlock

Further Reading/Listening:

Influencers take on AI deepfakes with their own creator protection agency — Virginia Glaze, Dextero

Musk’s Grok AI chatbot is still making sexual deepfakes, despite X’s promise to stop it — David Ingram, NBC News

The Deepfake Nudes Crisis in Schools Is Much Worse Than You Thought — Matt Burgess, WIRED

Take It Down Act: How to use it to remove revenge porn — Jasmine Mithani, The 19th

Image-Based Sexual Abuse Laws: Combat Nonconsensual AI Deepfakes — RAINN

AI & Tech-Enabled Sexual Abuse: Risk & Prevention — RAINN

Deepfake Statistics 2025: AI Fraud Data & Trends — Mohammed Khalil, DeepStrike

Read the Transcript here

Email us at ⁠[email protected]⁠

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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What happens when your therapist is… a chatbot?

For KQED health reporter Lesley McClurg, it started with a late-night spiral over dating. Instead of texting a friend, she opened ChatGPT and got the kind of calm, reassuring advice she needed. It worked… maybe a little too well.

Lesley joins Morgan to dig into the rise of AI therapy, why so many people are turning to chatbots for emotional support, and what they might be risking in the process. These systems promise something traditional mental health care often can’t: instant, affordable, judgment-free access. But there are limits and, sometimes, serious consequences. 

Note: This episode includes discussions of suicide and mental health conditions. Listener discretion is advised.

This episode first aired on April 23rd, 2025 

Guest: 

Lesley McClurg, KQED health correspondent

Further Reading/Listening:

Can AI Replace Your Therapist? The Benefits, Risks and Unsettling Truths - Lesley McClurg, KQED

The AI therapist can see you now - Katia Riddle, NPR 

Woebot, a Mental-Health Chatbot, Tries Out Generative AI - Casey Sackett, Devin Harper, and Aaron Pavez, IEEE Spectrum

AI Prophets and Spiritual Delusions — Close All Tabs 

New Studies Reveal Mental Health Blindspots of AI Chatbots — Marlynn Wei, Psychology Today AI in the mental health care workforce is met with fear, pushback — and enthusiasm — Rhitu Chatterjee, NPR 

Read the Transcript here

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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In 2018, researcher Eva Galperin made a discovery about a colleague. He had been sexually abusing women for decades, and threatening to expose their private information using “stalkerware” — hidden applications that allow people to spy on another person’s private life through their mobile device. This set Eva on a new path. She went on to found the Coalition Against Stalkerware, a network of researchers and advocacy groups working to limit the spread of stalkerware and support survivors of tech-enabled abuse. 

Eva joins Morgan to talk about how her background in cybersecurity allowed her to help countless survivors of stalkerware abuse, and how activists and researchers are beginning to turn the tide against a sprawling, largely hidden industry.

Guest: 

Eva Galperin, director of cybersecurity at the Electronic Frontier Foundation

Further Reading/Listening:

What is stalkerware? — Coalition Against Stalkerware 

Hacked, leaked, exposed: Why you should never use stalkerware apps — Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai, TechCrunch 

When whisper networks let us down — Sarah Jeong, The Verge

Spyware Company Leaves ‘Terabytes’ of Selfies, Text Messages, and Location Data Exposed Online — Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai, Vice 

A massive 'stalkerware' leak puts the phone data of thousands at risk  — Zack Whittaker, TechCrunch 

Support King, banned by FTC, linked to new phone spying operation — Zack Whittaker, TechCrunch 

EFF Teams Up With AV Comparatives to Test Android Stalkerware Detection by Major Antivirus Apps — Eva Galperin, Electronic Frontier Foundation

Read the Transcript here

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard and Brian Douglass. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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Life on an H-1B visa — a visa that lets U.S. companies hire foreign-born workers for specialized jobs — is difficult, unpredictable, and has gotten even harder under the Trump administration. A new gaming studio, Reality Reload, is trying to capture that experience in a mobile game. It’s called H1B.Life, and it simulates the difficult choices, competing priorities, and personal sacrifices visa holders face — complete with chaotic design elements, like all-powerful “gods” who control your fate.

KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman joins Morgan to break down the game’s surprising design choices, the mission behind it, and the stories he heard from people navigating the H1-B process.

Guest: 
Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, reporter at KQED

Further Reading/Listening:

What Does It Take to Get a H-1B Visa? This Video Game Shows Just How Complicated It Is — Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, KQED

Meta, Google, and Amazon slash H-1B petitions after Trump's visa crackdown — Geoff Weiss, Melia Russell, Andy Kiersz, and Alex Nicoll, Business Insider 

Faculty Warn Against State Bans on H-1B Visas — Jessica Blake, Inside Higher Ed 

H-1B Visa Restrictions Will Hurt America’s Research Potential, Experts Say — Shelby Bradford, PhD, The Scientist 

US Tech Visa Applications Are Being Put Through the Wringer — Lauren Goode, Wired 

A New Game Turns the H-1B Visa System Into a Surreal Simulation — Zeyi Yang, Wired 

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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In a spring installment of Save or Scroll, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From looksmaxxing to AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss.

Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?

Guest:

Steffi Cao, culture journalist 

Further Reading/Listening:

More from Steffi Cao — Substack

Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City — Kieran Press-Reynolds, GQ

Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels — Steffi Cao, The Daily Beast  

‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise — Jude Cramer, Fast Company 

There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos — Kat Tenbarge, Wired 

Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? — Jiye Kim, Teen Vogue 

BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened? — Nadira Goffe, Slate 

Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial — Jasmine Mithani, The 19th

What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now — Jeannie Suk Gersen, The New Yorker 

The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial — Taylor Lorenz, Free Speech Friday  

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⁠Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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Only 2% of Americans identify as members of the Church of Latter-day Saints — and yet a striking number of American social media influencers are Mormon. Why? The answer lies in a mix of religious doctrine, early internet adoption, and some surprising financial incentives.

In this episode, author and journalist Fortesa Latifi returns to the show to unpack her research for her new book, Like, Follow, Subscribe: Influencer Kids and the Cost of a Childhood Online. She breaks down the hidden industry behind Mormon “momfluencers,” how these creators both uphold and push against a patriarchal system, and why the trad wife fantasy can be damaging far beyond their audience. Plus, she and Morgan tackle the question hanging over reality TV fans everywhere: “Will MomTok survive this?”

Guest:

Fortesa Latifi, journalist and author of Like, Follow, Subscribe: Influencer Kids and the Cost of a Childhood Online.

Further Reading/Listening:

Like, Follow, Subscribe: Influencer Kids and the Cost of a Childhood Online — Fortesa Latifi, Simon & Schuster 

the Mormon Church pays its influencers — Fortesa Latifi, What’s The Vibe

A Refresher on the Mormon MomTok Drama — Danielle Cohen, Olivia Truffaut-Wong, and Julia Reinstein, The Cut 

'The Bachelorette' Cast Taylor Frankie Paul For The Mess. They Got It. So, Who's To Blame?  — Katherine Singh, Refinery 29 

'The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives' Shows the Trad Wife Reality  — Quinci LeGardye, Marie Claire 

Does the LDS Church pay influencers? Well, actually, yes. — Dylan Eubank, The Salt Lake Tribune

Meet the queen of the ‘trad wives’ (and her eight children) — Megan Agnew, The Times 
Tradwife life isn't as good as it looks on TikTok — just ask former tradwives — Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, NPR

Read the Transcript ⁠here⁠

Email us at ⁠[email protected]⁠

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.

In 2007, Bee Movie hit theaters with a strange plot and was considered a box office flop. Nearly two decades later, it’s somehow more relevant than ever, not because of the movie itself, but because of what happened next. The script became a meme, then a prank, then, eventually, a tool for protest.

In this episode, host Morgan Sung traces the evolution of bait-and-switch memes, from early internet shock images to the rise of the “Never Gonna Give You Up” rickroll, all the way to TikTok-era pranks that burn out as quickly as they go viral. Along the way, she talks to Bee Movie co-writer Spike Feresten about how the film became an unlikely internet icon, and to digital rhetoric expert Bret Strauch about what makes a meme actually stick.

Guests:

Spike Feresten, screenwriter and comedian

Bret Strauch, assistant professor of digital media, University of Colorado Boulder

Further Reading/Listening:

Behind the scenes content on the making of this episode!

MEMES, Part 3: Gotta make you understand — Endless Thread

A Complete History of Bee Movie’s Many, Many Memes — Paris Martineau, Intelligencer

Why Did Bee Movie Become A Meme? — Joshua Kristian McCoy, GameRant

The Josh Hutcherson ‘Whistle’ edit meme, explained — Ana Diaz, Polygon

‘His courage our own’: This Charlie Kirk tribute song is blowing up on Spotify. Was it made by a human—or AI? — Braden Bjella, The Mary Sue 

Read the Transcript here

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Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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