Former intelligence officer Bryan Stern describes the tradecraft he used on Russian intelligence and military services to rescue an American imprisoned in Russian-occupied Ukraine.

If you liked this episode check out these links to more hostage rescue stories:

• SpyCast - James Foley: Journalist, ISIS Hostage, Son – with His Mother Diane Foley
• Operación Jaque - The Daring Rescue Mission That Freed 15 Hostages
• Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ambassador Roger D. Carstens

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:

https://sashaingber.substack.com/

To learn more about Bryan’s work with Grey Bull you can visit greybullrescue.org. 

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at [email protected].

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Introducing the new host of SpyCast, Sasha Ingber! In this week’s episode, Sasha joined Erin in a conversation about her career and the future of the International Spy Museum’s flagship podcast. Now entering it’s 19th year, SpyCast will relaunch on January 14th with brand new episodes, featuring exciting spy stories and the latest intelligence from the shadowy world of espionage. Tune in to learn more about Sasha, our very first female host and the first host with a background in journalism.

As we look forward to our upcoming relaunch, we want to extend our sincere gratitude to those who have had a hand in uplifting SpyCast throughout the past 18 years. In particular, we’d like to thank our outgoing host Dr. Andrew Hammond, whose passion for the history of intelligence and genuine connection with each of our guests shined through each of the 200+ episodes he produced. A special thanks is also due to our friends at N2K Networks for their talented production and unwavering support of the podcast. 

We can’t wait to introduce you all to the new era of SpyCast. See you in the new year! 

Subscribe to Sasha’s Substack, HUMINT, here: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Robert Gates (Website; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to reflect on the 75th Anniversary of the CIA. He served 8 U.S. presidents. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• His reflections on the CIA at 75
• How the CIA’s story intersected with his own  
• His take on the organization’s strengths and weaknesses 
• The complex intl. environment the CIA must now help America navigate

Reflections

• Twists of fate
• Identity and institutions 

And much, much more…

Episode Notes

Robert M. Gates is the first career officer in the CIA’s history to rise from entry level employee to Director. He spent 27 years at CIA, nine of those at the NSC. More recently, he was the first Secretary of Defense to be asked to remain in office by a newly elected president. In all, he served 8 presidents. 

Wouldn’t you love to know his take on the CIA at 75? Well, we’ve made that happen for you!

He was born in Wichita, Kansas, served in the U.S.A.F. and he received his undergraduate education at William & Mary, his masters from Indiana University, and his doctorate from Georgetown University. He was formerly the President of Texas A&M University and the current Chancellor of William & Mary. 

And…

The academic institutions Dr. Gates has been associated with all have quite different capacities of football stadium: Georgetown University’s Cooper Field can hold 3,750; William & Mary’s Zable Stadium can hold 12,259; Indiana University’s Memorial Stadium can hold 52,626; and Texas A&M’s Kyle Stadium can hold a whopping 102,733. What could we infer about Dr. Gates, college sports, or the United States from this information? Well, that would be thinking like an intelligence analyst.

Quote of the Week

"I've led four very big, very different institutions and like all of them I always saw where places where CIA could be better. But I always loved the place, and I always was proud to work there and proud of the people that I knew…they were probably the smartest, most honest people I've ever met and worked with." – Robert Gates.

Resources

*Andrew’s Recommendation*

• “Reorganization in the Intel. Community,” DCI Gates (1992)
• Watch this prescient clip on historical naivete, or if you’re hardcore, the entire congressional testimony

*SpyCasts*

• “Dealing with Russia” – with Jim Olson (2022)
• “I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – with Mike Morell (2021)

*Beginner Resources*

• History of CIA, CIA (n.d.) [website]
• CIA Director’s Portrait Gallery, CIA (n.d.) [online gallery]
• Impact of President G.H.W. Bush’s Foreign Policy, MSNBC (2018) [13 min. video]
• At 75, CIA Back Where it Started, Countering Kremlin, G. Myre, NPR (2022) [5 min. audio]

Books

• Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)
• Duty, R. Gates (Vintage, 2015) [Def. Sec. memoir]
• A World Transformed, Bush & Scowcroft (Knopf, 1998)
• From the Shadows, R. Gates (S&S, 1996) [CIA memoir]
• Power & Principle, Z. Brzezinski (FS&G, 1983) [Gates was Z.B.’s Special Asst. at the NSC during the Carter era]

Articles

• A More Realistic Strategy for the Post-Cold War Era, R. Gates, WaPo (2022)
• Creation of the Central Intelligence Group, M. Warner, SII (1996) 

Video

• Legacy of the G.H.W.B. Administration, CFR (2016)
• Book Talk: From the Shadows, R. Gates, C-Span (1996)

Documentary

• The Spymasters, Showtime (2015)

Curatorial

• Pocket History of CIA, CIA (2014)

Primary Sources

• Biden Speech on 75th Anniversary of the CIA (2022)
• Robert Gates on CIA and Openness (1992)
• Nomination of Gates to be DCI (1991)
• Adm. Roscoe, First CIA Director Dies (1982) 
• CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)
• Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 
• National Security Act (1947)

*Wildcard Resource*

• North by Northwest (Hitchcock, 1959)
• We hear the first explicit mention of “CIA” in a major movie
•  “FBI. CIA. ONI. We’re all in the same alphabet soup.”

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Hugh Wilford joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book. Hugh is a professor, author, and leading CIA historian. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• Imperial influences on American intelligence
• Key figures in CIA history 
• “Wild” Bill Donovan & British influence
• Groton School’s impact on CIA leaders

Reflections

• Inherited history
• Challenging established narratives

And much, much more …

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*Spotlight Resource*

• The CIA: An Imperial History, Hugh Wilford (Basic Books, 2024)

*SpyCasts*

• The British Monarchy and Secret Intelligence with Rory Cormac and Richard Aldrich (2024)
• The Past 75 Years with Historian of the CIA Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (2022)
• The 75th Anniversary of the CIA with former Director Robert Gates (2022)

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• A Question of Standing: The History of the CIA, R. Jeffreys-Jones (Oxford University Press, 2022) 
• Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)
• A Brief History of the CIA, R. Immerman (Wiley, 2014)

Primary Sources 

• Sherman Kent Obituary (1986)
• Maj. Gen. Edward G. Lansdale to go to South Vietnam (1965) 
• CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)
• Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 
• National Security Act (1947)
• Intelligence Remarks of Major General William J. Donovan (1946)

*Wildcard Resource*

• Kim (1901) by Rudyard Kipling
• As Hugh mentions in this interview, this book was the inspiration behind Kermit Roosevelt Jr.’s nickname, Kim. Harold Adrian Russell Philby, the infamous member of the Cambridge Spy Ring better known as Kim Philby, took inspiration from the same source. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Robert Shaw joins Andrew to discuss his experience working as an accredited Battlefield tour guide. Bob’s career in the British Army spanned over 25 years. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• Becoming a battlefield tour guide
• IEDD and Intelligence Work in Northern Ireland
• Hypothetical WWIII scenarios 
• Special Forces, TECHINT, & the Bin Laden Raid

Reflections

• Learning from history
• Interpretation and understanding

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“One of the things about being an IEDD operator, our intent of course is investigation. And part of that is asking questions, lots of them, and getting, in a sense, answers and then following off and chasing trails or rabbit holes … It's good to be able to question everything and work out why it's there and does it fit … So it does really help with battlefield touring.” – Bob Shaw.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• Alan Turing: Codebreaker, Visionary, Enigma with Andrew Hodges (2024)
• The Real Ian Fleming with Nicholas Shakespeare (2024)
• ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL: The D-Day Deception with National WWII Museum Curator Corey Graff (2023)
• St. Ermin’s Hotel, London – The History of a Legendary Spy Site with Stephen Duffy (2023)
• The IRA, The Troubles & Intelligence with Eleanor Williams and Thomas Leahy (2022)

DEEPER DIVE

Explore the Sites and Battlefields Discussed

• Thames House
• Vauxhall Cross
• Bletchley Park 
• Monument to SOE Agents
• The Old War Office Building
• The Admiralty Building
• Beaumanor Hall
• Battle of Arnhem / Operation Market Garden 
• The Khyber Pass 
• The Falklands Conflict  
• Abbottabad Raid / Operation Neptune Spear 
• Battle of Stalingrad 

*Wildcard Resource*

• The Battle of Gettysburg is perhaps one of the most well-known and most visited battlefields in the United States. 
• Take a virtual tour of this historic American site here – Tour guidance by Bob not included. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Anna Slafer (LinkedIn, Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the history of the International Spy Museum. Anna was one of SPY’s first employees when the museum opened in 2002. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• Building the International Spy Museum
• Milton Maltz: the visionary behind SPY 
• The role of historians and curators 
• Creating exhibits on espionage 

Reflections

• Institutional memory and evolution
• The challenges and joys of storytelling 

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“We structured the museum so people could understand: How does [spying] work? Who does it? What is my role? And we wanted to look at the good, the bad, and the ugly.” – Anna Slafer.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• The World’s Preeminent Collection of SPY Artifacts with Laura Hicken and Lauren VonBechmann (2024)
• Secrets Revealed – Curators Alexis and Andrew on SPY’s Pop-Up Exhibit (2023)
• Peter Earnest Memorial: Spook, CIA Spokesman, Spy Museum Director (2022)

*Beginner Resources*

• A look at the International Spy Museum in Washington D.C., FOX 5 Washington DC, YouTube (2023) [5 min. video]
• About the Collection, International Spy Museum (n.d.) [Short article]
• About Museums, American Alliance of Museums (n.d.) [Short Q&A]

DEEPER DIVE

Articles

• Cracking the Spy Museum Code to Revitalize Stale Learning, J. A. Manning, Medium (2023)
• A Reimagined Spy Museum in Washington Doesn’t Flinch From the Darker Side, S. Shane, The New York Times (2019)
• From For-Profit to Nonprofit: Evolution of the International Spy Museum, E. Merritt, American Alliance of Museums (2019)
• Spy Museum salutes '50 years of Bond Villains,' T. Wells, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (2012)
• Role of museums in managing design education: a case study, H. Lee, International Journal of Education Through Art (2009)
• Museum visitors hit the D.C. streets in spy game, B. Zongker, Seattle Times (2009)

*Wildcard Resource*

• Museums have been a critical element of community building and historical memory for centuries. 
• One of the world’s first curators was a woman named Ennigaldi-Nanna from modern day Iraq. Dating from 530 B.C., Ennigaldi-Nanna’s museum of Mesopotamian artifacts is thought to be the world’s oldest museum. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Lieutenant General Anthony Crutchfield (Ret.) (LinkedIn, Wikipedia) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his time as the Deputy Commander of United States Indo-Pacific Command. PACOM covers 52% of the globe. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• The role of intelligence in military operations
• Ethical dilemmas in command decisions
• Reflections on the impact of mentorship and outreach 
• The importance of remaining aware in today's pervasive world

Reflections

• The challenges of leadership
• Hard work, determination, and resilience

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“I worked hard at everything I did. If somebody asked me to do a job, I didn’t say, ‘That’s not my job,’ I didn’t complain. There were places that I was sent that I didn’t want to go, but I went – And I didn’t complain about it…I did the best that I could and it was recognized.” – Anthony Crutchfield.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• Leading United States Central Command with General Frank McKenzie (2024)
• CIA Director, Defense Secretary, Gentleman with Leon Panetta (2024)
• David Petraeus on Ukraine & Intelligence with the former CIA Director & 4* General (2023)
• Intelligence, Special Operations, and Strategy with Michael Vickers (2023)

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• The Melting Point: High Command and War in the 21st Century, K. F. McKenzie (Naval Institute Press, 2024)
• Conflict: The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Ukraine, D. Petraeus & A. Roberts (Harper, 2023) 
• Strategy in Crisis: The Pacific War, J. T. Kuehn (Naval Institute Press, 2023) 
• Fire on the Water: China, America, and the Future of the Pacific, R. J. Haddick (Naval Institute Press, 2014)

Primary Sources 

• U.S. Defense Infrastructure in the IndoPacific: Background and Issues for Congress (2023)
• Pacific Partnership Strategy (2022)
• Indo-Pacific Strategy of the United States (2022)

*Wildcard Resource*

• PACOM is, by far, the largest geographical combatant command. The smallest, on the other hand, is the U.S. Central Command. Listen to our interview with General Frank McKenzie, 14th commander of CENTCOM, here! 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Jonathan B. Smith (X; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the application of intelligence to entrepreneurship. Jonathan is an entrepreneur, author, and business strategist.

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• Building high-performance teams
• Case officers vs. entrepreneurs 
• Networking and overcoming operational challenges
• Curiosity as a key trait for success

Reflections

• The will to succeed 
• The power of listening and empathy

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“I often switch languages …I'll speak from a medical CEO's perspective versus a financial services CEO perspective. And people, when you use their language, they tend to lean in. They're like, “Oh, you understand me.” It's fascinating – People don't want to know how much you know until they know how much you care.” – Jonathan B. Smith.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• The Cyber Behavioral Profiler with Cameron Malin (2024) 
• The FBI Hostage Negotiator with Chris Voss (2024) 
• Spying and Start-Ups with former Assistant Director of the CIA John Mullen (2022)
• From the CIA to Strategic Cyber with Hans Holmer (2022)

*Beginner Resources*

• What Do Entrepreneurs Actually Do? Foundation for Economic Education, YouTube (2019) [3 min. video]
• What is EOS? Entrepreneurial Operating System (n.d.) [Fact sheet]
• Case Officer, Central Intelligence Agency (n.d.) [Job description]

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• Sell Like A Spy: The Art of Persuasion from the World of Espionage, J. Hurewitz (Diversion Books, 2024)
• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It, C. Voss & T. Raz (Harper Business, 2016)
• Optimize for Growth: How to Scale Up Your Business, Your Network and You, J. B. Smith (Chief Optimizer, 2015)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Ean Forsythe joins Andrew to discuss the history of Cuban intelligence. Ean is the Counterintelligence and Security Center Chair at the National Intelligence University. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• The history and evolution of Cuban intelligence
• Case studies, including Ana Montes, Kendall Meyers, and the Cuban Five
• Counterintelligence strategies and challenges
• The role of Cuban intelligence during the Cold War

Reflections

• Ideology and the power of ideas
• Offensive vs. defensive play 

And much, much more …

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• Code Name Blue Wren: Cuban Spy Ana Montes with Jim Popkin (2023)
• The Counterintelligence Chief with FBI Assistant Director Alan Kohler (2023)
• Dealing with Russia – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson (2022)

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• Code Name Blue Wren: The True Story of America's Most Dangerous Female Spy—and the Sister She Betrayed, J. Popkin (Hanover, 2023)
• To Catch a Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence, J. M. Olson (Georgetown University Press, 2021)
• United States-Cuban Relations: A Critical History, E. M. Dominguez (Lexington, 2008)

Primary Sources 

• Report on the Convictions and Disproportionate Sentences Imposed on the Cuban Five (2014)
• USA: The Case of the Cuban Five (2010)
• Inspector General Review of Ana Montes Investigation (2005)
• US vs. Marta Rita Velazquez (2004)
• Ana Montes Statement During Trial (2001)
• FBI Arrests DIA Employee (2001)
• Selection and Training of Cuban Intelligence Agents Abroad (1964)
• Cuban Intelligence Information Report (1964)

*Wildcard Resource*

• Watch Erin bake Ana Montes’ famous cheesecake recipe and dive deeper into Ana’s story in SPY's Declassified Desserts video! 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Eliot Higgins (X; Wikipedia) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the work of Bellingcat. Eliot founded the open-source investigative website in 2014. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• Bellingcat’s approach to “investigative journalism”  
• The rise of OSINT as a tool of journalism  
• Bellingcat’s relationship with intelligence agencies 
• Case studies from Bellingcat’s past, including the Skripal Case and the MH17 flight investigation

Reflections

• Leading by example
• Accessibility and accountability

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“When I first started doing this work ... I would present geolocation and stuff on stage. The reaction was like I was doing magic tricks, but my point was that. This isn't magic – This is something that you can do and recreate and understand.” - Eliot Higgins.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• Digital Innovation and the Next Frontier of Intelligence with Jennifer Ewbank (2024)
• The Future of OSINT and the Intelligence Community with Jason Barrett (2024) 
• U.S. Army Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT) with Dennis Eger & Shawn Nilius (2024)
• Ukraine & Intelligence: One Year On with Shane Harris (2023)

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• OSINT Techniques: Resources for Uncovering Online Information, M. Bazzell (2023) 
• Deep Dive: Exploring the Real-world Value of Open Source Intelligence, R. L. Baker (Wiley, 2023)
• We Are Bellingcat: The Online Sleuths Solving Global Crimes, E. Higgins (Bloomsbury, 2022)

Primary Sources 

• Map of Civilian Harm in Ukraine (2024)
• Death of Sinwar Report (2024)
• The IC OSINT Strategy 2024-2026 (2024)
• DoS Open Source Intelligence Strategy (2024)
• MH17 Investigation (2019)
• Skripal Report (2018) 

*Wildcard Resource*

• The fable of Belling the Cat
• The inspiration behind Bellingcat’s name, the moral of this story is simple – It’s one thing to suggest a solution or idea, but it’s a whole other beast to actually take action. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary

Cameron Malin (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss cyber and behavioral profiling. Cameron was the creator and founder of the FBI’s Cyber Behavioral Analysis Center. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• The historical origins of behavioral profiling
• Applying behavioral profiling to counterintelligence and cyber threats
• Nature vs. Nurture in criminal behavior
• The future of deception and cyberwarfare 

Reflections

• The complexity of the human mind
• Threat evolution

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“We need to think about cybersecurity as not just hacking and malware and the obvious tangible or known weapons that are used, it includes mental malware … Deep fakes and disinformation, things that can cause erroneous decision making that are just as powerful.” – Cameron Malin

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• The FBI Hostage Negotiator with Chris Voss (2024)
• A CIA Psychologist on the Minds of World Leaders, Pt. 1 with Dr. Ursula Wilder (2024)
• A CIA Psychologist on the Minds of World Leaders, Pt. 2 with Dr. Ursula Wilder (2024)
• “How Spies Think” – 10 Lessons in Intelligence with Sir David Omand (2020)

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• Deception in the Digital Age: Exploiting and Defending Human Targets through Computer-Mediated Communications, C. Malin et. al. (Academic Press, 2017)
• Incendiary: The Psychiatrist, the Mad Bomber, and the Invention of Criminal Profiling, M. Cannell (Minotaur Books, 2017)
• Mindhunter: Inside the FBI's Elite Serial Crime Unit, J. Douglas & M. Olshaker (1995) 

Primary Sources 

• Lone Offender Terrorism Report (2019)
• A Study of Pre-Attack Behaviors of Active Shooters in the United States Between 2000 and 2013 (2018)
• FBI Jack the Ripper Profile (1988)
• Criminal Investigation: A Practical Handbook (1907 translation)
• UK Parliamentary Debates (1888)

*Wildcard Resource*

• Mindhunter (2017-2019)
• While not perfectly accurate, this TV show (heavily inspired by the book of the same name, listed above) is a truly excellent watch. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices