Bob Wallace was appointed Deputy Director of the CIA’s Office of Technical Service in 1995 and became its director three years later. In other words, he was the CIA’s “Q.” The storied office dealt in microdots and secret writing, creating innovations that spanned concealments, forged documents, surveillance equipment, covert communications, and special weapons. In this interview, Sasha and Bob sit down to discuss the tactics and innovations he has never shared before, ranging from the low-tech to the Internet Age, to the devices and techniques used in the Global War on Terrorism.

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This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. This episode was produced by Flora Warshaw and the team at Goat Rodeo. At the International Spy Museum, Mike Mincey and Memphis Vaughan III are our video editors. Emily Rens is our graphic designer. Joshua Troemel runs our SPY social media. Amanda Ohlke is our Director of Adult Education and Mira Cohen is the Vice President of Programs.

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The CIA’s book club, known by the codename QRHELPFUL, was a secret 35-year program born of the fear that communism would dominate the globe. About 10 million books were smuggled into the Soviet Union during the Cold War, transported by trucks and yachts, in tins and luggage, and even dropped from balloons. The agency believed that the literature could win hearts and minds, turning citizens of the Soviet Bloc into dissidents. It’s all documented in author Charlie English’s new book, The CIA Book Club, the first narrative account of this program.

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And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by email at [email protected], 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. This episode was produced by Flora Warshaw and the team at Goat Rodeo. At the International Spy Museum, Mike Mincey and Memphis Vaughan III are our video editors. Emily Rens is our graphic designer. Joshua Troemel runs our SPY social media. Amanda Ohlke is our Director of Adult Education and Mira Cohen is the Vice President of Programs.

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For decades, California-based engineer Chi Mak quietly stole secrets on war-fighting technologies. He and his family members shared the intelligence with spies in China, giving Beijing astounding insights they hadn’t earned. Former FBI Special Agent James Gaylord takes us back to the elaborate investigation in 2004. Evidence gathered by his squad, call sign “SARA-4,” broke a string of FBI failures in the courtroom. Chi went to prison, but new problems arose. Jim’s account is documented in his book, Chasing Chi.

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No other American has a family history quite like Christine Kuehn. Through years of doing painstaking interviews, hunting down letters, and pouring through FBI records, Christine learned that her German-born aunt had a fling with Nazi politician Joseph Goebbels. When he found out she was half-Jewish, Goebbels sent the family to Hawaii to spy. After Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Christine’s grandfather was found guilty of providing intelligence to the Japanese. In this episode we hear how Christine Kuehn strung together her family secrets to tell her family history in her book, Family of Spies, which is coming out November 25th. 

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In our last episode, author Stuart Reid peeled back the curtain on 'The Lumumba Plot,' the CIA’s plan to assassinate Patrice Lumumba, the first democratically-elected Prime Minister of the Congo. Station Chief Larry Devlin was central to the CIA’s 1960 assassination plot. He never had to carry it out, but Lumumba was later killed in another plot that Devlin knew about, according to diplomatic cables released in 2013.

Today, we'll share more of our conversation with Stuart Reid. But first, we’re going back into our archives to bring you Devlin in his own words. In 2007, a year before he passed away, Devlin sat down with the International Spy Museum's Founding Director Peter Earnest to talk about his time in the Congo.

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The Congo was just gaining its independence from Belgium in 1960 when its first democratically elected leader, Patrice Lumumba, faced an existential crisis: mutiny in his new army, followed by an unwelcome intervention by Belgian forces. Lumumba had hoped the U.S. would help, but when Washington turned its back, Lumumba turned to Moscow. And so began a CIA operation to assassinate Lumumba to stop the feared spread of Communism in Africa. The story is documented in The Lumumba Plot, a book by author Stuart Reid. 

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Russian drones and warplanes have been increasingly breaching the airspace of NATO countries. Admiral Joachim Rühle, (ret.) is the former Chief of Staff of the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe, the headquarters of Command Operations - including defense, deterrence, and training to Ukrainians - in Belgium. He talked about Moscow’s incursions, its acts of sabotage, and how to manage this complex alliance.

Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts. 

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And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at [email protected]. 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

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Jessica Brandt knows a lot about influence. She was the director of the Foreign Malign Influence Center, which served as intermediary between the U.S. intelligence community and the public. It alerted private citizens and the public to disinformation operations orchestrated by adversaries overseas. Jessica explains how the toolkit has gotten larger, more sophisticated, and is being wielded by more countries than ever before.

Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts. 

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This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

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Keith Melton is a historian who’s been an advisor to the US Intelligence Community for decades. An avid collector and board member at The International Spy Museum, Keith has donated thousands of artifacts, and one of the most historically important is the axe used to assassinate Leon Trotsky. Keith found the weapon after decades of searching. In 2007,  he spoke with Peter Earnest, the founding executive director of the International Spy Museum, about Trotsky’s assassination and tracking down the  weapon used for the job.

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"This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC."

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Vinny Troia is at home on the Dark Web. The veteran hacker has developed relationships with cyberactors who have quietly stolen sensitive data from the far corners of the world. Vinny sells that data to law enforcement and intelligence agencies, like the CIA. His book, Grey Area: Dark Web Data Collection and the Future of OSINT, is out this October.

Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts. 

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This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

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Keith Bulfin was a banker, not a spy. But then came a special client–a supposed coffee importer who was actually a banker for Mexican and Colombian drug cartels. Soon, U.S. authorities were knocking on Keith’s door. He ended up behind bars in a maximum security prison. While in prison, Bulfin ended up befriending leaders of drug cartels and eventually became their private banker, while secretly feeding intelligence to the U.S. government. It was a descent into a world few see and fewer survive.

Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts. 

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ 

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at [email protected]. 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

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