While we're on season break with Reckon True Stories, here's a sneak preview from Season Three of Ursa Short Fiction, Deesha's other podcast with author (and True Stories producer!) Dawnie Walton.

Show notes:

• Follow Season Three in your favorite podcast app.
• Support the show with a membership or one-time contribution, and get access to bonus episodes: ursastory.com/join
• Read more about Dawnie Walton's next novel!
• Contact us via email: [email protected]

Produced by: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon chat with the hilarious and multitalented Samantha Irby, author of multiple wickedly funny essay collections, as well as writer for multiple television series.

Samantha talks about her own confidence and how she’s able to write guiltless memoir pieces. She distinguishes between the experiences of watching what she’s written versus reading what she’s written. Has she bougie-ed out of her past? And, of course, what are the ins and outs of comedy-writing? Can it be taught? What are the industry-wide issues with gatekeeping? And who do you write to? 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• bitches gotta eat! (Samantha Irby blog)
• “My Mother, My Daughter” (Samantha Irby, The Rumpus 2012)
• We Are Never Meeting In Real Life (Samantha Irby)
• Meaty (Samantha Irby)
• New Year, Same Trash (Samantha Irby)\
• Wow, No Thank You (Samantha Irby)
• Quietly Hostile (Samantha Irby)

Watch List:

• Shrill
• And Just Like That: Sex and the City
• Tuca and Bertie
• Atlanta
• Mea Culpa
• Paul Mooney
• Mike Epps
• Mo’Nique
• Shirley Hemphill
• Nell Carter

Listening List:

• “Upgrade U” (Beyoncé)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw and Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon dig into a classic essay by Toni Morrison, “The Work You Do, the Person You Are,” published in The New Yorker in May 2017. They talk about labor and self-identity — how our feelings of worth can become so closely tied to the work we do, in ways that can become unhealthy, both in the corporate world and in the art we create. 

Kiese Laymon: “Without labor and work, I don’t know who I am. And I think that’s terrifying.” 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• “The Work You Do, the Person You Are” Toni Morrison (The New Yorker, 2017)
• Daddy Was a Number Runner (Louise Meriwether, 1970)
• “On Writing and the Business of Writing” (Carmen Maria Machado, 2022)
• Playing in the Dark (Toni Morrison, 1992)
• "The Cask of Amontillado" (Edgar Allan Poe, 1846)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• City Summer, Country Summer (Kiese Laymon & Alexis Franklin)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the latest episode of Reckon True Stories, Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon are joined by MacArthur Genius and National Book Award Winner Dr. Imani Perry to discuss genre, personal stories and the ethical commitment to those we write about, the utilization of craft to bring the reader close to the experience and the body, the body as political, Black women and silence, mobility, music, and mothering. 

They ask the question of what we owe of ourselves as writers — and particularly Black writers— to our audience, and they explore what it looks like to maintain boundaries, to self-preserve, and to rest. In Kiese’s words, he calls it learning “the art of not just no, but not now.” Kiese praises Dr. Perry on how she has never written the same kind of book twice, and in this episode, she talks about her inspirations, how she chooses what to write towards, and what questions she is consistently leaning into in her work.

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• South to America (Imani Perry)
• Breathe: A Letter To My Sons (Imani Perry)
• Prophets of the Hood: Politics and Poetics in Hip Hop (Imani Perry)
• Looking for Lorraine: The Radiant and Radical Life of Lorraine Hansberry (Imani Perry)
• May We Forever Stand: A History of the Black National Anthem (Imani Perry)
• Percival Everett
• A Dangerously High Threshold for Pain (Imani Perry)
• Alice Walker
• Nikky Finney
• “She Changed Black Literature Forever. Then She Disappeared.” (Imani Perry, New York Times 2021)
• “‘Palmares’ Is An Example Of What Grows When Black Women Choose Silence” (Deesha Philyaw, Electric Literature 2021)
• Palmares (Gayl Jones)
• Robert Stepto
• Hazel Carby
• Zora Neale Hurston
• Katherine Dunham
• Moms Mabley
• 1000 Words (Jami Attenberg)
• Lessons for Survival: Mothering Against “The Apocalypse” (Emily Raboteau)
• How To Live Free In A Dangerous World: A Decolonial Memoir (Shayla Lawson)
• A Mercy (Toni Morrison)

Listening List:

• Nina Simone
• Miles Davis
• “Nobody’s Supposed To Be Here” (Deborah Cox)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• City Summer, Country Summer (Kiese Laymon & Alexis Franklin)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon discuss the “manosphere,” — specifically how Black men show up in the space of it, and how Black women respond to it. Deesha talks about a “de-centering of romance” and recognition that women have come to see that their lives are full and beautiful without being partnered with a man who does not listen to or respect them. 

They are interested in the deconstruction of the notions of masculinity, of repair and accountability, and of the homosociality/eroticism of the manosphere, as well as the pulling away of intimacy between cishet men. And they discuss what the work might look like. Therapy, radical change, deconstructing notions of masculinity, and possibly even retiring the terms “masculinity” and “femininity” altogether.

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• “My Brush with the Black Manosphere” (Nicole Young, Elle 2022)
• Warsan Shire
• Act Like A Lady, Think Like A Man (Steve Harvey)
• bell hooks
• Audrey Lorde
• “Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness.” (Christine Emba, The Washington Post 2023)
• “How To Be A Better Man Right Now” (Jeff Gordinier, Esquire 2024)

Listening List:

• Jokes On You (podcast hosted by Mel Mitchell and Talle)
• “The disappearance of men” (Christine Emba, YouTube 2024)
• Instagram Reel by Ari Jai

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon sit down with Minda Honey to discuss her recently published memoir, The Heartbreak Years, and the role that Honey’s own experiences, and the stories told to her by family, have had on shaping her work. 

With her debut, Honey — who also edits Black Joy at Reckon — was praised for her ability to linger in the body and the desires of a Black woman while also seamlessly moving through not just place, but time. As Kiese Laymon says, “I actually thought what Minda was doing was like a new kind of travel writing. And so I was just so excited when everybody got to read it.”

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• The Heartbreak Years (Minda Honey)
• “The Reality of Dating All Men When You’re Black” (Minda Honey, Gawker 2014)
• “Woman of Color in Wide Open Spaces” (Minda Honey, Longreads 2017)
• Black Joy at Reckon
• Cheryl Strayed's Dear Sugar
• Sari Botton
• Sweet Valley High Series (Francine Pascal)
• Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry (Mildred D. Taylor)
• Milk Blood Heat (Dantiel Moniz)
• “On Being Black in Kentucky and Charles Booker’s Historic Run for Senate” (Minda Honey, Salon 2020)
• Praisesong for the Kitchen Ghost (Crystal Wilkinson)
• Their Eyes Were Watching God (Zora Neale Hurston)
• “Writing for the Bad Faith Reader” (Susie Dumond, Melissa Febos, BookRiot 2023)
• Danielle Buckingham 
• “A Farewell to Fuckboys in the Age of Consent Culture” (Minda Honey, Longreads 2018)

Listening List:

• “Doo Wop (That Thing)” (Lauryn Hill)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon chat with writer Alexander Chee, author of Edinburgh, The Queen of the Night, and How to Write an Autobiographical Novel. The three writers talk about their journeys in the publishing industry, and what success has meant to each of them, specifically in regards to money. They discuss Chee’s essay, “My Inheritance Was My Father’s Last Lesson To Me,” where he writes about his relationship to money, how it changes over time, and what the relationship between anxiety, money, and body looks like. 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• How to Write an Autobiographical Novel: Essays (Alexander Chee)
• “How to Unlearn Everything” (Alexander Chee, Vulture 2019)
• Edinburgh (Alexander Chee)
• The Queen of the Night (Alexander Chee)
• Other Peoples’ Husbands (forthcoming by Alexander Chee)
• “When Horror is the Truth-Teller” (Alexander Chee, Guernica 2023)
• “My Inheritance Was My Father’s Last Lesson To Me, And I Am Still Learning It” (Alexander Chee, Buzzfeed 2018)
• Damon Young
• “Storycraft: Point of Telling” (Junot Diaz, StoryWorlds 2023)
• Jesus’ Son (Denis Johnson)
• The Children's Hospital (Chris Adrian)
• The War: A Memoir (Marguerite Duras)
• Sarah Schulman
• The Book of Love (Kelly Link)
• Enter Ghost (Isabella Hammad)
• Notes from an Island (Tove Jansson)
• The Moomins and the Great Flood (Tove Jansson)
• Same Bed Different Dreams (Ed Park)

Listening List:

• Luther Vandross
• Favorite Albums of Each Year (Hanif Abdurraqib, Medium, 2016 - 2023)
• CCFX
• Lil Nas X
• Yeah Yeah Yeahs
• Omar Apollo
• Billie Eilish
• Nicki Minaj
• Japanese Breakfast
• Angel Olsen
• U.S. Girls
• Wet Leg

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon discuss the complicated process of writing about family — specifically parents. They talk about the ways parents fail, how they disappoint, but why it is important, and necessary when writing about family and those we love, to give them grace, and allow them the room to make mistakes. They ask the question, What do we owe to those we write about? And they call for writers to be guided, first and foremost, by love. 

Deesha and Kiese talk about their own relationships with their parents, the processing and tending to those relationships, and how they moved through feelings of shame and anger while working through layers of grief. 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• “Snap” (Deesha Philyaw, Pipe Wrench Magazine 2021)
• “How Can You Be Mad At Someone Who’s Dying Of Cancer?” (Deesha Philyaw, Full Grown People 2015)
• “Whiting” (Deesha Philyaw, Short Reads 2023)
• “These Are Your Memories” (Kiese’s mother’s letter, 2018) 
• “If We Can Soar: What Birmingham Roller Pigeons Offer the Men of South Central” (Shanna B. Tiayon, Pipe Wrench Magazine 2021)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deesha and Kiese welcome acclaimed writer, poet, and cultural critic Hanif Abdurraqib, author of There's Always This Year: On Basketball and Ascension. They talk about music—the significance of music to their youth and their lives now, their listening practices, and Abdurraqib’s process of creating playlists. They also discuss basketball and what is so special, so singular, about Columbus in terms of high school basketball. Deesha admits how she’s had to challenge her own notions of Ohio in regards to sports and to politics, and Abdurraqib talks about the joys and the frustrations of place, of community, and of notions of home.

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Hanif Abdurraqib
• Yona Harvey
• Brian Broome
• Hanif Abdurraqib Blog (Medium)
• There's Always This Year: On Basketball and Ascension (Hanif Abdurraqib)
• “Nicki Minaj’s ‘Pink Friday’ Sequel is Pure Spectacle” (Hanif Abdurraqib, The New Yorker 2023)
• Diane Seuss
• Greg Tate
• Wanda Coleman
• Terrance Hayes

Listening List:

• “Smells Like Teen Spirit” (Nirvana)
• “Funkytown” (Lipps Inc.)
• “Nothing from Nothing” (Billy Preston)
• “Kung Fu Fighting” (Carl Douglas)
• Parliament Funkadelic
• Hot Buttered Soul (Isaac Hayes)
• Celia Cruz
• Miriam Makeba
• Whitney Houston
• “Basketball” (Kurtis Blow)
• “Shoot Pass Slam” (Shaquille O’Neal)
• “(I Know I Got) Skillz” (Shaquille O’Neal)
• “Soul in the Hole” (3rd Bass)
• (7L & Esoteric, The Handle ft. Sadat X)
• “Hit ‘em High” (Busta Rhymes, Coolio, LL Cool J, Method Man)
• “Let’s Go Crazy” (Prince & The Revolution)
• “Human Made” (Kid Cudi)
• “The Pink Seashell” (Fall Out Boy, Ethan Hawke)
• African-American Sound Recordings
• BLK ODYSSY
• “Yellow Brick Road” (Lo Village)
• Flood City Trax (Nondi)
• Black Rainbows (Corinne Bailey Rae)
• Beloved! Paradise! Jazz!? (McKinley Dixon)
• Pink Friday 2 (Nicki Minaj)
• Allison Russell

Read more from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Acclaimed author Roxane Gay joins Deesha and Kiese for a wide-ranging conversation about her writing journey, bringing your whole self to the page, the pressures of social media, and the value of criticism. 

Gay talks about her forthcoming book on writing advice, How to Be Heard, and Deesha and Kiese ask about her current pop culture influences—what she’s watching and who she’s listening to—and Deesha gets another hint about Roxane Gay’s nemesis.

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Ayiti (Roxane Gay)
• An Untamed State (Roxane Gay)
• Bad Feminist (Roxane Gay)
• Difficult Women (Roxane Gay)
• Hunger (Roxane Gay)
• Black Panther: World of Wakanda (Ta-Nehisi Coates, Roxane Gay, et. al) 
• The Audacity 
• Opinions (Roxane Gay)
• “Why People Are So Awful Online” (Roxane Gay, The New York Times 2021)
• Donna Tartt
• James Hadley Chase
• Tayari Jones
• “A Conversation with Kiese Laymon” (Roxane Gay, The Nation 2013)
• Roxane Gay Reviews On Goodreads
• “What Fullness Is” (Roxane Gay, Medium 2018)
• How to be Heard (Roxane Gay)
• Sonia Sanchez
• “Work Friend” column (Roxane Gay, The New York Times)
• Choire Sicha
• “i cannot stop thinking about true detective: cold lesbians” (Samantha Irby, bitches gotta eat! 2024)

Watch List:

• ReesaTeesa on TikTok
• True Detective : Night Country
• Expats
• The Farewell

Listening List:

• American Requiem (Beyoncé) 
• The Roxane Gay Agenda podcast 
• Brooks & Dunn

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw and Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the premiere episode of Reckon True Stories, co-hosts and acclaimed authors Deesha Philyaw (The Secret Lives of Church Ladies) and Kiese Laymon (Heavy, How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America, Long Division) come together to kick off a season where nonfiction takes the spotlight. They talk about their own journeys to writing nonfiction, the distinctions they make between their essay writing and fiction writing, as well as how they came to collaborate and work together in the publishing industry. 

Deesha and Kiese discuss writing on their own terms, revising their own ideas of what an essay is “supposed” to do or look like, and putting themselves back into the writing, while also exploring what makes for a compelling essay — calling for the writer to not lose the storytelling aspect in their nonfiction work.

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Robert Jones Jr.
• The Fire This Time (Jesmyn Ward)
• Becoming (Michelle Obama)
• Damon Young
• Emma Carmichael
• “The Girl Is Mine” (Deesha Philyaw, Literary Mama 2004)
• Co-Parenting 101: Helping Your Kids Thrive in Two Households After Divorce 
• Song of Solomon (Toni Morrison)
• “The Charge of the Light Brigade” (Alfred, Lord Tennyson, Poetry Foundation)
• “Annabel Lee” (Edgar Allan Poe, Poetry Foundation)
• Yusef Komunyakaa 
• How to Sit (Tyrese Coleman)
• “Water Come Back To You: On Trying To Write About Love” (Deesha Philyaw, Split Lip Mag 2021)
• “Whiting” (Deesha Philyaw, Short Reads 2023)
• “The 13 Guys You’ll Meet On A Dating App” (Deesha Philyaw, Medium 2019)
• “If He Hollers Let Him Go” (Rachel Kaadzi Ghansah, The Believer 2013)
• “The Case for Reparations” (Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Atlantic 2014)
• “I Called Out American Dirt’s Racism. I Won’t Be Silenced.” (Myriam Gurba, Vox 2020)
• Creep: Accusations and Confessions (Myriam Gurba)
• “On No Longer Being A Hysterical Woman” (Nafissa Thompson-Spires, The Paris Review 2020)
• Oldster (Sari Botton)
• “Feral” (Staci Greason, Oldster 2023)
• Memoir Monday
• Electric Literature

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices