What does it take to stay calm when millions are watching? Rebecca Lowe, the host of NBC’s Premier League coverage and Fox’s record-breaking 2026 World Cup broadcast, joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant to explore why preparation—not confidence—is her real superpower; the weight of being one of the only women in the room; and what it really means to lead when things get chaotic. Together, they unpack the difference between presence and preparedness, the “permission slip” moment that defines great leadership, and why the loudest person in the room isn’t always the one in charge. Along the way, Rebecca reflects on breaking barriers in a male-dominated industry, how she earns trust from personalities like Zlatan Ibrahimović, and the teachable habit she uses to keep her co-hosts focused on live TV. 

The Return of Coach Lasso – NBC Sports, 2014, YouTube

Nessun Dorma, Rome 1990 – Luciano Pavarotti, 1990, YouTube

Double Standards for Competence – Martha Foschi, 2000, Annual Review of Sociology

"Executive Presence" Is Overrated – Adam Grant & Brené Brown, 2025, Instagram

Entrepreneur Passion and Preparedness in Business Plan Presentations – Xiao-Ping Chen, 2009, Academy of Management Journal

Beyond Nine to Five – Lieke ten Brummelhuis, 2017, Academy of Management Discoveries

Building atomic habits with James Clear –  Adam Grant (Host), July 21, 2023, ReThinking with Adam Grant

Can Your Employees Really Speak Freely? – James Detert, 2016, Harvard Business Review

Trailblazing Motivation and Marginalized Group Members – Karren Knowlton, 2025, Organization Science

Bullet Time Effect in "Sherlock" the BBC TV Series – Moffat & Gattiss, January 14,  2014, BBC/YouTube

Conversational Style – Deborah Tannen, 2005, Oxford University Press

Who Won't Shut Up in Meetings? – Adam Grant, 2021, The Washington Post

Dare to Lead read-along workbook (Permission Slips) – Brené Brown, 2021, Brené Brown, LLC

Tell Me What I Did Wrong – Stacey Finkelstein, 2012, Journal of Consumer Research

Emotional Contagion – Elaine Hatfield, 1993, Current Directions in Psychological Science

Huge If True – Cleo Abram, YouTube

Range – David Epstein, 2019, Riverhead Books

The science of performing under pressure with Sian Beilock – Adam Grant (Host), March 28, 2023, ReThinking with Adam Grant (“Twisties” discussion at 8:50) 

Hidden Potential – Adam Grant, 2023, Viking

What Being Sober Has Meant to Me – Brené Brown, 2019, brenebrown.com

The Gifts of Imperfection – Brené Brown, 2010, Hazelden Publishing

Positive Conceptions of Perfectionism – Joachim Stoeber, 2006, Personality and Social Psychology Review

The Queen Bee Phenomenon – Belle Derks, 2016, The Leadership Quarterly

Some Effects of Proportions on Group Life: Skewed Sex Ratios and Responses to Token Women – Rosabeth Moss Kanter, 1977, American Journal of Sociology

Demarginalizing the Intersection of Race and Sex – Kimberlé Crenshaw, 1989, University of Chicago Legal Forum

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why do sports make us cry, unite strangers, and create memories that last a lifetime? In this episode, Men in Blazers founder and CEO Roger Bennett joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant fresh off a 39-day World Cup marathon to explore what the tournament revealed about identity, belonging, and the power of collective effervescence. Together, they unpack the difference between hero players and hero teams, what it means to be a true fan, the political complexities surrounding the World Cup, and how sports create shared experiences that shape our lives. Along the way, Roger shares stories from the road, reflects on the strange grief of “World Cup withdrawal,” and revisits some of the tournament’s most memorable stories, including Erling Haaland’s taxidermy shop detour, the Cape Verde goalkeeper who became a global icon overnight, the controversial red card reversal, and more.

Roger Bennett – Men in Blazers Media Network

The Englishman Who Became America’s No. 1 Soccer Fan – David Waldstein, July 16, 2026, The New York Times

Men in Blazers’ Roger Bennett Eats Two Dinners During the World Cup “Chicken-tinga burros are the Messi of burros.” –  Ben Widdicombe, July 17, 2026, New York Magazine 

Brené Brown on Surrounding Yourself With People Who Take Pleasure in Your Joy (Schadenfreude vs. Freudenfreude) – Ellen DeGeneres, April 1, 2022, TheEllenShow

Premier League to bring all 20 clubs to U.S. in activation after 2026 World Cup – Victoria Hernandez, July 23, 2026, Yahoo Sports

The Kansas City fanwalk had us all like… – OnsOranje, Royal Dutch Football Association

The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football Is Wrong – Anderson & Sally, 2013, Penguin 

Men in Blazers - “The Women’s Game” and “Vamos” (Platform links) – The Men in Blazers Media Network

New Volume Edited by Phil Smith and Sébastien Tutenges: Collective Effervescence – 2026, Yale Center for Cultural Sociology

ROG’s Heartbreaking Farewell and Stunning Comeback at Goodison Park (Everton) – Roger Bennett, 2026, YouTube

Brené Brown: The Power of Vulnerability & Joy in Liverpool! – Roger Bennett, April, 2025, Men in Blazers (Interview)

Anfield sings 'You'll Never Walk Alone' to kick off new season – NBC Sports, August 15, 2025, YouTube

We Are the World (Cup): A Personal History of the World's Greatest Sporting Event – Roger Bennett, 2026, HarperCollins

Who Belongs? Football and the Reinvention of the Modern Nation – Josh Wilson, 2026, TIME

The definition of a true fan – Adam Grant, Instagram

Folarin Balogun's lifted suspension – Roger Bennett, CBS Morning News, Instagram

This is so awkward: Modern puberty explained – Cara Natterson & Vanessa Kroll Bennett, 2023, Rodale Books

Human challenges in polar and space environments – Sandal et al., 2006, Springer

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is a master class in coaching as Aiko Bethea, one of the most respected senior leadership coaches in the country, takes Brené through a current leadership conflict in real time, showing just how hard it is to slow down and lead from your values instead of your urgency. The coaching session is underpinned by Aiko's new "Anchored, Aligned, and Accountable" framework that focuses on why self-leadership is so critical in today's complex operating environment. Together, they dig into the difference between assuming good intent and believing someone is doing the best they can, and why that distinction changes what accountability actually looks like in practice. Aiko also introduces and models the powerful coaching practice of "three levels of listening" and how it's central to developing a coaching mindset.

Aiko Bethea — Aiko Bethea, aikobethea.com

Dare to Lead Hub — Brené Brown, brenebrown.com

Audre Lorde — Mariana Brandman, 2021, National Women's History Museum

bell hooks — Asami Robledo-Allen Yamamoto, 2025, National Women's History Museum

RARE Coaching | Aiko Bethea (@rare_coach) — Aiko Bethea, n.d., Instagram

Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams — Amy Edmondson, 1999, Administrative Science Quarterly

This Is Our Reminder of What Courageous Leadership Looks Like — Brené Brown, 2026, LinkedIn

One of the Greatest Joys of My Career Has Been… — Brené Brown, 2026, LinkedIn

Futurist Amy Webb on What's Coming (and What's Here) — Brené Brown, 2024, Dare to Lead podcast

Brené with Aiko Bethea on Inclusivity at Work: The Heart of Hard Conversations — Brené Brown, 2020, Dare to Lead podcast

Rising Strong — Brené Brown, 2015, Random House

Feeling Powerless at Work? Here's Where Your Agency Still Lives — Jessi Hempel, 2026, Hello Monday with Jessi Hempel

Without Accountability, Just Throw It All Away — Aiko Bethea, 2023, LinkedIn (Street Lights newsletter)

Post on Learning and Development (#learninganddevelopment) — Aiko Bethea, 2026, LinkedIn

Dare to Lead — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House

Stop Outsourcing Your Judgment: Brené Brown in Conversation with Leadership Coach Aiko Bethea — Brené Brown, 2026, Fast Company

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. Brené and Adam unpack the difference between effort and excellence, why coaching matters more than judgment, and how unclear priorities can quietly derail even the hardest-working teams. From there the conversation moves further into prioritization, a consequential 2x2 decision-making framework, and how leaders inadvertently signal the wrong priorities through their emotional reactions. Circling back to effort, they also discuss why the first question leaders should ask when results fall short is whether they set their team up for success in the first place. Plus, Brené has a real-time realization that her own team may not be aligned on what's actually consequential.

Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know – Adam Grant, 2021, Viking

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

No, You Don't Get an A for Effort – Adam Grant, 2024, The New York Times

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success – Carol Dweck, 2006, Random House

Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation and Performance – Mueller & Dweck, 1998, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

What Having a “Growth Mindset” Actually Means – Carol Dweck, 2016, Harvard Business Review

“Both/And” Leadership – Wendy Smith, 2016, Harvard Business Review

Genius of the AND – Jim Collins, n.d., JimCollins.com

Reversible and Irreversible Decisions – Shane Parrish, n.d., Farnam Street

The Highly Sensitive Person: How to Thrive When the World Overwhelms You – Elaine Aron, 1996, Broadway Books

Sensory-Processing Sensitivity and Its Relation to Introversion and Emotionality – Elaine Aron, 1997, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

Above/Below the Line Practice – Brené Brown, 2025, BrenéBrown.com

Fairy Tales and Script Drama Analysis – Stephen Karpman, 1968, Transactional Analysis Bulletin (Origin paper for the villain/rescuer/victim model of conflict)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. The conversation opens on time scarcity, the devaluation of future time, and whether hope is actually a strategy. From there they discuss how great leaders don't need all the right answers (just the right questions) and the difference between executive presence and pocket presence. While digging into how the five C's of delegation build the situational awareness and critical thinking that pocket presence requires, Adam has a breakthrough realization that pocket presence isn't just an individual skill, it's a collective capability. Executive presence, they agree, is "party of one."

Resource Slack and Propensity to Discount Delayed Investments of Time Versus Money – Gal Zauberman, 2004, Journal of Experimental Psychology

Time for Happiness – Ashley Whillans, 2019, Harvard Business Review

Can We Afford to be Time Poor? The Hidden Tax of Time Poverty – Celestine Rosales, 2024, The Decision Lab

The Will and the Ways – C. R. Snyder, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

Hope Theory: Rainbows in the Mind – C. R. Snyder, 2002, Psychological Inquiry

Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, The Quarterly Journal of Economics

Some Empirical Evidence on Dynamic Inconsistency – Richard Thaler, 1981, Economics Letters

Future Self-Continuity: How Conceptions of the Future Self Transform Intertemporal Choice – Hal Hershfield, 2011, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences

The stranger within: Connecting with our future selves – Cynthia Lee

April 9, 2015, UCLA Newsroom

We normally think of a weakness as a strength you lack, but it can also be a strength you overuse – Adam Grant, July 10, 2018, LinkedIn

Stop Overdoing Your Strengths – Robert Kaplan, 2009, Harvard Business Review

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

Research: Vague Feedback Is Holding Women Back – Shelley Correll, 2016, Harvard Business Review

The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, 2024, Harvard Business Review

Pocket Presence (Video) – Emmanuel Acho, n.d., TikTok

Metacognition and Cognitive Monitoring: A New Area of Cognitive-Developmental Inquiry – Flavell, 1979, American Psychologist

Essential social work theories & models – Syracuse University, n.d., OnlineGrad@Syracuse

The 5 Cs of strategic thinking, decision making, and delegating – Brené Brown, n.d., brenebrown.com

Atomic Habits – James Clear, 2018, Avery

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. They dig into the Buddhist concept of near and far enemies- and why the biggest threat to your values isn't the opposite of them, it's what masquerades as them. From there they move into discussion around the value of paradoxical thinking, why some tensions aren't meant to be resolved, and why sports are leadership theater. Plus a conversation about why future time is always undervalued.

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

The Near Enemies of the Heart – Jack Kornfield, n.d., jackkornfield.com

Almost Everything: Notes on Hope – Anne Lamott, 2018, Riverhead Books (Chapter 2: “Inside Job”)

12 truths I learned from life and writing – Anne Lamott, July 13, 2017, TED (Video)

Anne Lamott's thoughts on love, writing, and being judgy – Adam Grant (Host), April 16, 2024, ReThinking with Adam Grant, TED Audio Collective

Genius of the AND – Jim Collins, n.d., jimcollins.com

Exploration and Exploitation in Organizational Learning – James G. March, 1991, Organization Science

Putting Feelings Into Words – Lieberman et al., 2007, Psychological Science

How to Tame Reactive Emotions by Naming Them – Mitch Abblett, 2022, Psychology Today

Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule – Paul Graham, 2009, paulgraham.com

The Tush Push Explained – Kyle Brandt & Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson, 2024, NFL (Video)

Togethxr’s ‘Everyone Watches Women’s Sports’ T-shirts go viral – Callie Holtermann, June 28, 2024. The New York Times

Dr. Linda Hill on leading with purpose in the digital age – Brené Brown (Host), April 18, 2022, In Dare to Lead, Vox Media

The Pre-Mortem Method – Gary Klein, 2021, Psychology Today

Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, Quarterly Journal of Economics (PDF)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this Re:Thinking podcast episode recorded at Authors@Wharton, Brené joined Adam to dig into her book, Strong Ground. They explore why courage now has to mean being a learner instead of a knower, and why values aren't just what you care about-- they're what you sacrifice for. The conversation moves through the four skill sets of courage, why a value that isn't operationalized into behavior is just a poster with an eagle on it, and how to use the "story I'm making up" framework for hard conversations. They also get into executive presence, vulnerability, care, and why fake courage is easy to spot.

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

Research – Brené Brown (n.d.).

The discovery of grounded theory – Glaser & Strauss, 1967, Aldine

Awareness of dying – Glaser & Strauss, 1965, Aldine

De-tabooing dying control – Thulesius et al., 2013, BMC Palliative Care

Never Split The Difference – Chris Voss, May 24, 2016, TEDx University of Nevada

Expectancy Theory (Victor Vroom) – The Decision Lab, (n.d.)

Dare to lead: List of values – Brené Brown, 2018

Dare to Lead Hub – Brené Brown

Brené Brown brings Dare to Lead program to UT – University of Texas at Austin, 2020, UT News

Neural processing of narratives – Jääskeläinen et al., 2020, Frontiers in Human Neuroscience

The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, Jan-Feb 2024, Harvard Business Review

The Gifts of Imperfection - Your Guide to a Wholehearted Life: 10th Anniversary Collection – Brené Brown, 2010

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant sit down with their first-ever guest, Simon Sinek. Together, they explore the state of organizations globally, including the chaos hitting C-suites, the human cost of misaligned incentives, AI-driven layoffs, and leaders playing defense when they should be playing offense. They dig into what makes teams high-performing, why caring deeply about the people you lead isn't soft but essential, and what the military's culture of love and loyalty teaches us about business. The conversation also moves through nervous system regulation, shame and guilt in parenting and leadership, and what AI can or cannot replace about human connection. This episode is a reminder that the things we've been told to leave out of business, such as love, care, and human connection, may be the most important things we can bring to it.

The Old Order Is Dead. Do Not Resuscitate — Sven Beckert, November 4, 2025, The New York Times

A Friedman Doctrine — Milton Friedman, September 13, 1970, The New York Times Magazine

The Man Who Broke Capitalism: How Jack Welch Gutted the Heartland and Crushed the Soul of Corporate America—and How to Undo His Legacy — David Gelles, 2022, Simon & Schuster

‘Take a simple idea and take it seriously’: Charlie Munger in his own words — Financial Times

Jack Dorsey Blamed AI for 4,000 Layoffs. A Former Block Exec Says That’s Not the Real Story — Leila Sheridan, 2026, Inc.

Brené Brown on values, vulnerability, and playing to win — Adam Grant, December 22, 2025, Knowledge at Wharton (Interview)

Threat-Rigidity Effects in Organizational Behavior: A Multilevel Analysis — Barry M. Staw, 1981, Administrative Science Quarterly

Finding our strong ground, part 1 of 6 [w guest Adam Grant] — Brené Brown, September 17, 2025, In Dare to Lead. Vox Media Podcast Network

Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action — Simon Sinek, 2009, Portfolio/Penguin

The mental game of tennis: A scoping review and the introduction of the Resilience Racket Model — Konstantinou, G et al., 2025, Sports

The Inner Game of Tennis — W. Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Random House

Suppose We Took Groups Seriously… — Harold J. Leavitt, 1975, in Man and Work in Society

Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t — Simon Sinek, 2014, Portfolio/Penguin

Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House

The Fifth Discipline: The Art and Practice of the Learning Organization — Peter M. Senge, 1990, Doubleday/Currency

Developing Brave Leaders and Courageous Cultures — Brené Brown, Dare to Lead hub

The Infinite Game — Simon Sinek, 2019, Portfolio/Penguin

Brené Brown: Focus on guilt instead of shame — 60 Minutes, March 29, 2020, YouTube

Children’s Proneness to Shame and Guilt Predict Risky and Illegal Behaviors in Young Adulthood — Jeffrey Stuewig (lead), 2015, Child Psychiatry and Human Development

The Altruistic Personality: Rescuers of Jews in Nazi Europe — Samuel P. Oliner & Pearl M. Oliner, 1988, Free Press

The Toxic Handler: Organizational Hero—and Casualty — Frost & Robinson, 1999, Harvard Business Review

Jensen Huang Says an Incorrect Nine-Year-Old Prediction About AI Shows Why It Won’t Destroy Jobs — CNBC, 2025, CNBC

Relational Job Design and the Motivation to Make a Prosocial Difference — Adam M. Grant, 2007, Academy of Management Review

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant use this year’s booed commencement speeches as a launching pad to explore the role of AI in our lives. They dig into what some of those commencement addresses were missing: moral imagination, emotional honesty, and real empathy for the graduates. Brené introduces the concept of being “smitten with what’s written,” the trap of polished AI output that looks good but fails to move anything forward, and unpacks why writing is a tool for thinking, not just communicating. Adam proposes that signing your name on AI-generated content is an integrity violation, and together they work through how to give feedback, set expectations, and stay human in the middle of a technological transformation. 

Show Notes:

George Saunders Reflects on his Famous Convocation Address at Syracuse University (2013) - George Saunders, 2023, Syracuse University College of Arts and Sciences

Values and Messages Conveyed in College Commencement Speeches - Jenifer Partch & Richard Kinnier, 2011, Current Psychology

Don’t Be Afraid to Fall - Brené Brown, 2020 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address)

Make Your Bed – Admiral William H. McRaven, 2014 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address)

Through Disappointment You Can Gain Clarity - Conan O'Brien, 2011, Dartmouth College (Commencement Address )

Be True to Yourself - Ellen DeGeneres, 2009 Tulane University (Commencement Address))

The Importance of Kindness - Steve Carell, 2025 Northwestern University (Commencement Address)

Make Failure Your Fuel - Abby Wambach, 2018 Barnard College (Commencement Address)

Wolfpack: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game – Abby Wambach, 2019, Celadon Books 

2026 graduates boo commencement speeches on AI - Eric Schmidt (Former Google CEO) University of Arizona; Gloria Caulfield (Real estate executive) University of Central Florida: Scott Borchetta (Big Machine Records CEO) Middle Tennessee State University, May 2026, PBS NewsHour

Exploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature: The Stockdale Paradox Explained, Brené Brown and Adam Grant, May 28, 2026, The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

A Whole New Mind – Daniel Pink, 2005, Riverhead Books (source of 'Symphony')

AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity – Kate Niederhoffer et al. (BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab), 2025, Harvard Business Review

The Biggest Tell That Something Was Written by AI – Eve Fairbanks, 2026, The Atlantic

Quote Origin: I Do Not Know What I Think Until I Read What I’m Writing - Quoteresearch, 2023, Quote Investigator 

Dare to lead glossary: Key language, skills, tools, and practices (including “Paint Done”) - Brené Brown, 

Pilots and Passengers – BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab 2025, BetterUp

The Ghost in the Machine’s Memory: A Teacher’s Lament - Hudson Mathew, 2026, AI & Society (A Socrates warning, voiced by Plato)

The Enhanced Games – inaugural event May 24, 2026, Las Vegas (founder Aron D'Souza; doping-permitted competition)

Atlas of AI – Kate Crawford, 2021, Yale University Press

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do.

Victor Wembanyama on having Spurs legend David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the building - 2026, Yahoo Sports 

Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 of 2 -

Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast)

Victor Wembanyama Emotional After Spurs Advance to the NBA Finals - 2026, Bleacher Report 

Goals research summary - Gail Matthews, 2015, Dominican University of California

Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, Gotham Books

Ring Theory Helps Us Bring Comfort In

- Elena Sandler, 2025, Psychology Today 

Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book) 

U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & Adam Grant on Loneliness - Murthy & Grant, Authors@Wharton, 2024, YouTube 

​Andrew Garfield on grief and the loss of his mother – CBS, 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert​

National Survey of Gun Policy - Center for Gun Violence Solutions, 2025, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health 

Empathic Joy and the Empathy-Altruism Hypothesis - Batson et al, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001

Human empathy through the lens of social neuroscience - Decety & Lamm, 2006, The Scientific World Journal 

​The Making of an American​ – Jacob Riis, 1901, Macmillan 

​The Coach–Athlete Relationship Questionnaire (CART-Q)​ – Sophia Jowett, 2004, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports 

​Bad Is Stronger Than Good​ – Roy Baumeister, 2001, Review of General Psychology 

​Scarred for the Rest of My Career?​ – Erica Carleton (with Julian Barling), 2016, Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology 

The evolution of shame and its display -

Landers & Sznycer, 2022,

Evolutionary human sciences 

​Moral Emotions and Moral Behavior​ – June Tangney, 2007, Annual Review of Psychology

The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain - Brené Brown and David Eagleman, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast

Unlocking the Mysteries of our Brain - Chris Anderson with David Eagleman, 2022, The TED Interview

Winning coaches’ locker room secret - Blanding on the research of Barry Staw, 2019, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant unpack the paradoxes that shape our lives, relationships, leadership, and decision-making. They explore the Abilene Paradox, the Stockdale Paradox, why groups often make decisions nobody actually wants, and how people balance gritty facts with gritty faith. The conversation moves through spirituality, teamwork, family dynamics, optimism, creativity, and even unexpected debates about Twilight and Pitch Perfect. Funny, thoughtful, and deeply human, this episode examines why two opposite truths can exist at the same time and why learning to live inside that tension may be one of the most important skills we have. 

You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop).

00:00 Intro: Paradoxes, Dad Jokes & Big Questions

04:20 What Is a Paradox?

10:15 The Grace Paradox

19:02 The Abilene Paradox

27:04 How to Avoid the Abilene Paradox

30:45 Guilty Pleasures: Twilight, Pitch Perfect & Eurovision

38:38 Aesthetic Chills & The Big Five

43:08 The Stockdale Paradox Explained

46:48 Gritty Facts vs. Gritty Faith

49:47 Why Leaders Need Paradoxical Thinking

51:04 MLK’s “I Have a Dream” Speech

55:39 Candor Over Consensus

57:32 Comfort vs. Courage

1:02:06 Jim Collins & The Genius of the And

1:06:48 Harvard's Anti-Grade Inflation Policy

1:09:21 How Brené Grades Group Projects

1:13:19 Building the Muscle to Hold Paradox

1:14:54 Personal Paradoxes & The Grace of Getting It Wrong

Lump - Allison Sweet Grant, September 2026, Little, Brown and Co. (Forthcoming book)

Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems - Smith & Lewis, 2022, Harvard Business Review Press (Book)

Toward A Theory of Paradox: A Dynamic Equilibrium Model of Organizing - Smith & Lewis, 2011, Academy of Management Review

Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World - Adam Grant, October 2026, Vking (Forthcoming book)

Holding the Tension, The Wisdom of Paradox - Adapted, 2024, from Richard Rohr, The Naked Now: Learning to See as the Mystics See, 2009, Center for Action and Contemplation,

Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House

SmartLess (Guest: Stephen Colbert) - Arnett, Bateman & Hayes, SiriusXM/Wondery (Podcast)

The Abilene Paradox: The Management of Agreement - Harvey, 1974, Organizational Dynamics

Eurovision Song-Along: Story of Fire Saga: "Song-Along" - Dobking, D. (Director), 2020, Netflix (Movie clip)

Grease: "You're The One That I Want" - Kleiser, R. (Director) 1978, Paramount Pictures (Movie clip)

Brain Connectivity Reflects Human Aesthetic Responses to Music - Sachs, Ellis, Schlaug & Loui, 2016, Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience

Aesthetic Chills as a Universal Marker of Openness to Experience - McCrae, 2007, Motivation and Emotion

The Stockdale Paradox - Jim Collins, 2017, jimcollins.com

Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't - Jim Collins, 2001, HarperBusiness (Book)

Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts - Brené Brown, 2018, Random House (Book)

The Discovery of Grounded Theory: Strategies for Qualitative Research - Barney Glaser and Anselm Strauss, 1967, Aldine (Book)

It's 2020, Stop Saying 'Negative Nancy' - Sexist colloquialisms to avoid - Eskreis-Winkler, 2020, An Injustice! (Magazine)

https://www.feministlawprofessors.com/2008/07/nervous-nellie-was-not-a-woman/

The Will and the Ways: Development and Validation of an Individual-Differences Measure of Hope - Snyder et al., 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology

An analysis of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have a Dream" public speech - Duarte, 2011

BE 2.0 (Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0): Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company - Collins and Lazier, 2020, Portfolio/Penguin (Book)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices