Shift Key with Robinson Meyer and Jesse Jenkins

Heatmap News

A weekly podcast from Heatmap News about climate change and the shift away from fossil fuels.

  • 52 minutes 38 seconds
    Why Trump’s Oil Imperialism Might Be a Tough Sell for Actual Oil Companies

    Over the weekend, the U.S. military entered Venezuela and captured its president, Nicolás Maduro, and his wife. Maduro will now face drug and gun charges in New York, and some members of the Trump administration have described the operation as a law enforcement mission.


    President Donald Trump has taken a different tack. He has justified the operation by asserting that America is going to “take over” Venezuela’s oil reserves, even suggesting that oil companies might foot the bill for the broader occupation and rebuilding effort. Trump officials have told oil companies that the U.S. might not help them recover lost assets unless they fund the American effort now, according to Politico.


    Such a move seems openly imperialistic, ill-advised, and unethical — to say the least. But is it even possible? On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob talks to Rory Johnston, a Toronto-based oil markets analyst and the founder of Commodity Context. They discuss the current status of the Venezuelan oil industry, what a rebuilding effort would cost, and whether a reopened Venezuelan oil industry could change U.S. energy politics — or even, as some fear, bring about a new age of cheap fossil fuels. 


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is off this week.


    Mentioned: 


    The 4 Things Standing Between the U.S. and Venezuela’s Oil


    Trump admin sends tough private message to oil companies on Venezuela


    Previously on Shift Key: The Trump Policy That Would Be Really Bad for Oil Companies


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    6 January 2026, 10:00 am
  • 1 hour 4 minutes
    Shift Key Classic: California’s Rooftop Solar Question

    ​​Shift Key is off for the holidays, but we hope you’ll enjoy this classic episode.


    Rooftop solar is four times more expensive in America than it is in other countries. It’s also good for the climate. Should we even care about its high cost?


    Yes, says Severin Borenstein, an economist and the director of the Energy Policy Institute at the University of California, Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. In a 2024 blog post, he argued that the high cost of rooftop solar will shift nearly $4 billion onto the bills of low- and middle-income Californians who don’t have rooftop solar. Similar forces could soon spread the cost-shift problem across the country.


    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with Borenstein about who pays for rooftop solar, why power bills are going up everywhere, and about whether the government should take over electric utilities. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.


    Mentioned:


    Shift Key’s rooftop solar series, featuring Mary PowellSeverin Borenstein, and Heatmap’s own Emily Pontecorvo


    Jesse’s distributed energy research at MIT


    Australia’s Solar Choice Price Index


    More on Texas’ Griddy debacle


    Leah Stokes et al. on utilities’ climate record


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    31 December 2025, 10:00 am
  • 44 minutes 51 seconds
    The Biggest Energy and Climate Stories of 2026

    2025 has been a rough year for climate and energy news. But enough about that. Let’s start looking at 2026!


    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob is joined by some of Heatmap’s writers and editors to discuss our biggest stories and predictions for 2026 — what we’re tracking, what could surprise us, and what could happen next. We also discuss a recent op-ed in The New York Times arguing that Democrats should work more closely with the U.S. oil and gas industry. Today’s panel includes Heatmap’s founding staff writer Emily Pontecorvo, staff writer Matthew Zeitlin, and deputy editor Jillian Goodman. 


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is off this week.


    Mentioned: 


    Trump Uses ‘National Security’ to Freeze Offshore Wind Work


    Matthew Yglesias’ op-ed: Obama Supported It. The Left in Canada and Norway Does. Why Don’t Democrats?


    Emily on California cities’ new heat pump rules


    The House Just Passed Permitting Reform. Now Comes the Hard Part.


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    23 December 2025, 10:00 am
  • 44 minutes 19 seconds
    Say ‘Guten Tag!’ to This New Kind of Geothermal Tech

    Over the past decade, the oil and gas industry has sharpened its drilling skills, extracting fossil fuels at greater depths — and with more precision — than ever before. What if there was a way to tap those advances to generate zero-carbon energy?


    The Canadian company Eavor (pronounced “ever”) says it can do so. Its closed-loop geothermal system is already producing heat at competitive prices in Europe, and it says it will soon be able to drill deep enough to fuel the electricity system, too. It just opened a first-of-its-kind demonstration facility in Germany, which is successfully heating and powering the small hamlet of Geretsreid, Bavaria.


    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse chat with Mark Fitzgerald, the president and CEO of Eavor, about how its new technology works, how it differs from other forms of advanced geothermal, and why Europe is a good test bed for heat-generating projects. We also chat about what Mark, who previously ran Petronas Canada, learned in his 35 years in the oil industry.


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.

    Mentioned: 


    The Eavor-Loop in Geretsreid


    Previously on Shift Key: Why Geothermal Is So Hot Right Now


    Jesse’s upshift; Rob’s downshift.


    --

    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.

    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    17 December 2025, 10:00 am
  • 59 minutes 34 seconds
    Why the Rest of the World Is Buying Chinese EVs

    China’s electric vehicle industry, it’s now well understood, is churning out cars that rival or exceed the best products coming out of the West. Chinese EVs are cheaper, cooler, more innovative, and have better range. And now they’re surging into car markets around the world — markets where consumers are hungry for clean, affordable transportation. 


    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob talks to Ilaria Mazzocco about her new report on how six countries around the world are dealing with the rise of Chinese EVs. Why do countries welcome Chinese-made EVs, and why do countries resist them? How do domestic carmakers act when Chinese EVs come to town? And are climate concerns still driving uptake? 


    Mazzocco is the deputy director and senior fellow with the Trustee Chair in Chinese Business and Economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is off this week.


    Mentioned:


    Ilaria’s new report: The Global EV Shift: The Role of China and Industrial Policy in Emerging Economies


    Previously on Shift Key: How China’s EV Industry Got So Big


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Heatmap Pro brings all of our research, reporting, and insights down to the local level. The software platform tracks all local opposition to clean energy and data centers, forecasts community sentiment, and guides data-driven engagement campaigns. Book a demo today to see the premier intelligence platform for project permitting and community engagement.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.


    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    10 December 2025, 10:00 am
  • 1 hour 1 minute
    The Biggest Lessons of a Not-So-Great Year for Climate Policy

    2025 has been incredibly eventful for decarbonization — and not necessarily in a good way. The return of Donald Trump, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, and the rise of data centers and artificial intelligence led to more changes for climate policy and the clean energy sector than we’ve seen in years. Some of those we saw coming. Others we really did not. 


    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse look back at the year’s biggest energy and decarbonization stories and examine what they got right — and what they got wrong. What’s been most surprising about the Trump administration? Why didn’t the Inflation Reduction Act’s policies help prevent the law’s partial repeal? And why have AI and the data center boom become a much bigger driver of power growth than we once thought? 


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.


    Mentioned:


    From the Shift Key archive: A Skeptic’s Take on AI and Energy Growth, with Jonathan Koomey


    The R2 Is the Rivian That Matters


    Ford, Hyundai US sales down slightly in November as EVs drag


    Jesse’s upshift; Rob’s sorta upshift


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    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    3 December 2025, 10:00 am
  • 56 minutes 59 seconds
    How to Make Your Climate Giving Count, According to an Expert

    It’s been a tumultuous year for climate politics — and for climate nonprofits. The longtime activist group 350.org suspended its operations in the U.S. (at least temporarily), and Bill Gates, the world’s No. 1 climate funder, declared that the decarbonization movement should make a “strategic pivot” to poverty reduction. How should someone who wants to help the global climate navigate this moment?


    Our guest has recommendations. On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob talks to Dan Stein, the founder and executive director of Giving Green. Giving Green is a nonprofit that researches the most high-impact climate groups and helps people and companies donate to them. Stein talked about the top five climate groups Giving Green recommends this year, effective altruism and the future of climate philanthropy, and whether Bill Gates is right that climate activism has focused too much on emissions targets. 


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is off this week.


    Mentioned:


    Giving Green’s top climate nonprofits for 2025:


    Clean Air Task Force


    Future Cleantech Architects


    Good Food Institute


    Opportunity Green


    Project InnerSpace


    The Giving Green regranting fund


    Bill Gates’ memo on “three tough truths about climate”


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Hydrostor is building the future of energy with Advanced Compressed Air Energy Storage. Delivering clean, reliable power with 500-megawatt facilities sited on 100 acres, Hydrostor’s energy storage projects are transforming the grid and creating thousands of American jobs. Learn more at hydrostor.ca.


    Uplight is a clean energy technology company that helps energy providers unlock grid capacity by activating energy customers and their connected devices to generate, shift, and save energy. The Uplight Demand Stack — which integrates energy efficiency, electrification, rates, and flexibility programs — improves grid resilience, reduces costs, and accelerates decarbonization for energy providers and their customers. Learn more at uplight.com/heatmap.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    26 November 2025, 10:00 am
  • 1 hour 19 minutes
    How Clean Energy Could Prepare for an AI Bubble

    The boom in artificial intelligence has become entangled with the clean energy industry over the past 18 months. Tech companies are willing to pay a lot for electricity — especially reliable zero-carbon electricity — and utilities and energy companies have been scrambling to keep up.


    But is that boom more like a bubble? And if so, what does that mean for the long-term viability of AI companies and data center developers, and for the long-term health of decarbonization? 


    On this week’s Shift Key, we’re talking to Advait Arun, a senior associate for capital markets at the Center for Public Enterprise, about his new report on the market dynamics at play in the data center buildout. What kind of bets are these AI companies making? How likely are they to pay off? And if they don’t, who stands to lose big? Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.


    Mentioned:


    Advait’s report: Bubble or Nothing: Data Center Project Finance


    Hyman Minsky


    Previously on Shift Key: A Skeptic’s Take on AI and Energy Growth


    Jesse’s upshift; Rob’s downshift.


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Hydrostor is building the future of energy with Advanced Compressed Air Energy Storage. Delivering clean, reliable power with 500-megawatt facilities sited on 100 acres, Hydrostor’s energy storage projects are transforming the grid and creating thousands of American jobs. Learn more at hydrostor.ca.


    Uplight is a clean energy technology company that helps energy providers unlock grid capacity by activating energy customers and their connected devices to generate, shift, and save energy. The Uplight Demand Stack — which integrates energy efficiency, electrification, rates, and flexibility programs — improves grid resilience, reduces costs, and accelerates decarbonization for energy providers and their customers. Learn more at uplight.com/heatmap.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    19 November 2025, 10:00 am
  • 50 minutes 46 seconds
    Shift Key Live: The 2025 Elections, the Gates Memo, and More

    It’s been a huge few weeks for climate news. Democrats swept state and local elections in New Jersey, Virginia, California, and New York City — and won two crucial regulatory races in Georgia. A few weeks before, the climate tech investor and philanthropist Bill Gates released a memo arguing for a pivot on climate funding vis a vis global health.


    On this special episode of Shift Key, Rob talks to Heatmap staff writers Emily Pontecorvo and Matthew Zeitlin about what the 2025 elections might mean for climate policy, why “affordability” politics could hamper decarbonization, and whether the Gates memo represents anything but a rebrand. They recorded this conversation live at the Yale School of Management’s annual clean energy conference in New Haven, Connecticut.


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. Jesse is off this week.


    Mentioned: 


    How Mikie Sherrill Won New Jersey’s Electricity Election, by Matthew 


    Democrats Win 2 Key Energy Races in Georgia, by Emily


    Zohran Mamdani’s Muted Climate Politics, by Rob


    7 New Takes From Bill Gates on Climate ‘Doomsday’ Talk and Global Health


    Where Bill Gates Got It Wrong, by Zeke Haufather


    Previously on Shift Key: How to Talk to Your Friendly Neighborhood Public Utility Regulator


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Hydrostor is building the future of energy with Advanced Compressed Air Energy Storage. Delivering clean, reliable power with 500-megawatt facilities sited on 100 acres, Hydrostor’s energy storage projects are transforming the grid and creating thousands of American jobs. Learn more at hydrostor.ca.


    Uplight is a clean energy technology company that helps energy providers unlock grid capacity by activating energy customers and their connected devices to generate, shift, and save energy. The Uplight Demand Stack — which integrates energy efficiency, electrification, rates, and flexibility programs — improves grid resilience, reduces costs, and accelerates decarbonization for energy providers and their customers. Learn more at uplight.com/heatmap.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    14 November 2025, 10:00 am
  • 51 minutes 34 seconds
    Shift Key Classic: Have China’s Carbon Emissions Peaked?

    ​Robinson Meyer and Jesse Jenkins are off this week. Please enjoy this selection from the Shift Key archive.


    China’s greenhouse gas emissions were essentially flat in 2024 — or they recorded a tiny increase, according to a November report from the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, or CREA. A third of experts surveyed by the report believe that its coal emissions have peaked. Has the world’s No. 1 emitter of carbon pollution now turned a corner on climate change?


    Lauri Myllyvirta is the co-founder and lead analyst at CREA, an independent research organization focused on air pollution and headquartered in Finland. Myllyvirta has worked on climate policy, pollution, and energy issues in Asia for the past decade, and he lived in Beijing from 2015 to 2019.

    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk with Lauri about why the country is still building so much coal power (along with gobs of solar and wind), and the energy-intensive shift that its economy has taken in the past five years. Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University.


    ​Mentioned:


    CREA’s reports on China’s emissions trajectory


    Chinese EV companies beat their own targets in 2024


    Jeremy Wallace: China Can’t Decide if It Wants to Be the World’s First ‘Electrostate’


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    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Hydrostor is building the future of energy with Advanced Compressed Air Energy Storage. Delivering clean, reliable power with 500-megawatt facilities sited on 100 acres, Hydrostor’s energy storage projects are transforming the grid and creating thousands of American jobs. Learn more at hydrostor.ca.


    Uplight is a clean energy technology company that helps energy providers unlock grid capacity by activating energy customers and their connected devices to generate, shift, and save energy. The Uplight Demand Stack — which integrates energy efficiency, electrification, rates, and flexibility programs — improves grid resilience, reduces costs, and accelerates decarbonization for energy providers and their customers. Learn more at uplight.com/heatmap.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    12 November 2025, 10:00 am
  • 1 hour 21 minutes
    How EVs Can Actually Help the Electricity Crisis

    Data centers aren’t the only driver of rising power use. The inexorable shift to electric vehicles — which has been slowed, but not stopped, by Donald Trump’s policies — is also pushing up electricity use across the country. That puts a strain on the grid — but EVs could also be a strength.


    On this week’s episode of Shift Key, Rob and Jesse talk to Apoorv Bhargava, the CEO and cofounder of Weavegrid, a startup that helps people charge their vehicles in a way that’s better and cleaner for the grid. They chat about why EV charging remains way too complicated, why it should be more like paying a cellphone bill than filling up at a gas station, and how the AI boom has already changed the utility sector.


    Shift Key is hosted by Robinson Meyer, the founding executive editor of Heatmap, and Jesse Jenkins, a professor of energy systems engineering at Princeton University. 


    Mentioned:


    Rob on how electricity got so expensive


    Utility of the Future: An MIT Energy Initiative response to an industry in transition, December 2016


    Previously on Shift Key: Utility Regulation Really Sucks


    Jesse’s downshift; Rob’s upshift.


    --

    This episode of Shift Key is sponsored by …


    Hydrostor is building the future of energy with Advanced Compressed Air Energy Storage. Delivering clean, reliable power with 500-megawatt facilities sited on 100 acres, Hydrostor’s energy storage projects are transforming the grid and creating thousands of American jobs. Learn more at hydrostor.ca.


    Uplight is a clean energy technology company that helps energy providers unlock grid capacity by activating energy customers and their connected devices to generate, shift, and save energy. The Uplight Demand Stack — which integrates energy efficiency, electrification, rates, and flexibility programs — improves grid resilience, reduces costs, and accelerates decarbonization for energy providers and their customers. Learn more at uplight.com/heatmap.


    Music for Shift Key is by Adam Kromelow.

    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    5 November 2025, 10:00 am
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