Jason and Jane are back with your questions — and an encouragingly modest agenda: saving centrism, standing by Ukraine, surviving the US midterms, tackling climate change and keeping the Red Sea open. Is anti-incumbency a symptom of a broken social contract? Can democracies outlast Putin without American leadership? And is a protest movement without a concrete demand doomed to achieve nothing?

We also tackle Trump’s Russian diesel deal, whether Trump will fightback after a midterms loss coherent fightback, what COP31 can achieve in Antalya, and how the Houthis connect the Iran war to the Horn of Africa. Along the way, Jason offers the Democrats a slogan, and we discover that puppet satire may be the most reliable form of political analysis.

ORDERING THE DISORDER: Big collective-action problems need leadership, enforceable rules and practical demands — not just outrage.

MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: Israel votes on 27 October. Could Netanyahu survive yet again? Jason and Jane examine Gadi Eisenkot, Naftali Bennett, Avigdor Lieberman and the Arab parties; ultra-Orthodox conscription; and the prospect of a knesset that cannot form a government. Join at https://disordershow.com/club.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack -

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube -

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Disorder Ep 212 — Mark Galeotti on War Putinism and Russian bears

https://podfollow.com/disorder/episode/502c88e21901dc3f66bac9d075868ce5dd86ca63/view

The Rest Is Politics: Leading — Mary Trump, “Trump’s Niece on Why He’s on Putin’s Side”

https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/trumps-niece-on-why-hes-on-putins-side/id1665265193?i=1000796648618

The Rest Is Politics — Trump and Putin vs Zelensky: Is Europe Sleepwalking into Disaster?

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-the-rest-is-politics-107223135/episode/581-trump-and-putin-vs-zelensky-348060976/

Puppet Regime — official political satire site

https://puppetregime.com/

Spitting Image — official YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/@SpittingImage

UN Climate Change — COP31 in Antalya, 9–20 November 2026

https://unfccc.int/cop31

The Atlantic — Trump’s “Staggering One-Two Punch” to Ukraine

https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/2026/10/ra-ukraine/689068/

Disorder — join the Mega Orderers Club

https://disordershow.com/club

As right-wing populist and far-right parties see a major rise across Europe, Nigel Farage is one of the most consequential politicians of our time.  

He may be the UK’s next Prime Minister. 

Investigative journalist, and best-selling author, John Sweeney is a thorn in Nigel Farage’s side. He is the Reform UK correspondent of the Nerve. He has covered wars, revolutions and disorder in a hundred countries, including going undercover in Chechnya, North Korea and Zimbabwe. He’s written 17 books including the Sunday Times bestseller ‘Killer in the Kremlin’ about Vladimir Putin.  

In this lively interview, which includes explicit language, about his new, explosive book ‘The Real Nigel Farage’ Sweeney does not hold back, citing well-sourced allegations, suggesting the charismatic and popular Reform UK leader is cruel, chaotic and akin to a leader of a cult. 

It's a packed hour full of startling allegations, such as Farage not liking working class people and academics, his sympathies towards Vladimir Putin and his narcissistic tendencies.  

Nigel Farage, as Sweeney himself makes clear throughout the interview, denies any wrongdoing and has said of Sweeney that he has caused him more misery than anyone else in 25 years of politics. Sweeney says Farage has not yet sued about any of the allegations in his book.  

Also in this interview, Sweeney reveals what really happened that caused his infamous shouting match against Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis, which has been seen by millions of people around the world.  

Sweeney also tells Out of Order with Mark Lobel why he thinks child serial killer Lucy Letby is innocent. Sweeney has reported on women wrongly jailed for murder before and revealed flaws in the case against Sally Clarke. Her verdict was subsequently overturned in 2003. 

LINKS: 

Buy John’s book, ‘The Real Nigel Farage’ here: https://amzn.eu/d/07m4laz3  

Crowdfunders for Ukraine: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/qr/XWJOKwDn?utm_campaign=sharemodal&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=shortlink  

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/qr/VlDvrKKn?utm_campaign=sharemodal&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=shortlink 

 John’s podcast on Lucy Letby https://open.spotify.com/show/0rwlMXKNQK0a7ug2p4oX1D  

John Sweeney losing his temper – Panorama, BBC One https://youtu.be/mjlo4u_8g60?is=15o0HQfnzdU5gC2f 

Contact Mark Lobel here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/getintouch  

HOST: Mark Lobel @marklobeltv

GUEST: John Sweeney @johnsweeneyroar

PRODUCER: George McDonagh

From tear gassing student protestors in France to Britain’s chaotic party conferences with their controversial motions, Jason and Jane ask whether Western democracies can still deliver anything positive for the next generation. They take on Labour’s spending promises, the Tory’s bizzarre tax cut pledges, the Greens’ Zionism is Racism controversy and the growing power of bond markets over elected governments.

Then: are AI and its creators taking over? Jane reports from the UN General Assembly on the push for global AI rules. After the break, we turn to the US midterms and Iranian-linked security threats in Britain. Plus, Jason finally learns what “squeaky bum time” means. And apparently it is not only about clearing the midpoint.

Then in the MEGA ORDERERS BONUS just for our subscribers: Can Trump Tariff His Way to a Bolsonaro Victory? Brazil’s election, the Bolsonaro comeback, Lula’s failures, crime, evangelical politics and whether economic pressure is becoming a new form of foreign election interference.

Join the Mega Orderers Club: https://disordershow.com/club

And in the ORDERING THE DISORDER: Democracies need room to invest in the next generation and international cooperation to ensure AI serves people rather than addiction, polarisation and dominance.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack -

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube -

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Have the Greens just voted for a de facto ban on Jews?

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-news-agents/id1640878689?i=1000793267697

More on this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/oct/02/green-party-anti-zionism-motion-attempt-tell-jews-how-to-think

'Everyone hates the police' – what France's school protests reveal about a divided nation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crq5nlqnn184o 

George McDonagh produced Black Box about AI https://www.theguardian.com/technology/audio/2026/sep/03/black-box-the-chatbots-spirals-ai-psychosis-podcast 

And then an On the Media about US polarization and ice. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RUp1IfoSX2CXl0s1eVi3h?si=1IlVr9j2SZqt9evXmucpaQ&utm_source=copy-link&t=2045 

Jason is joined by former Kentucky congressional candidate Erin Petrie, board member of Bourbon Women and active DAR member, to dissect the ideological clash at the heart of the American left. They discuss whether progressive slogans like "abolish ICE" drive moderate voters into Trumpism, how Citizens United and billionaire donors have created a pay-to-play system and why politicians in Washington fail to address the affordability crisis in rural America.

MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: What do Erin’s experiences in post-revolutionary Libya reveal about the collapse of civic trust back home? Then, as Jason and Erin Order the Disorder, they debate whether centrist pragmatic realism or progressive dreaming is the path forward. They explore critical Senate and House races to watch in North Carolina and Texas, whether Democrats should pack the Supreme Court to counter executive overreach, and how international trade and tariffs could hit MAGA voters where it hurts. Plus: can the rule of law still win in Trump’s America, or must centrist Democrats go lower to actually restore order?

Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus: 

https://disordershow.com/club

Producer: Sam Cluley

Subscribe to Ordering the Disorder: 

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube: 

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Erin’s Website: 

https://erinpetrey.com/

Erin’s Podcast: 

https://www.thekentuckyedge.com/on-the-edge-with-erin-petrey/

Kentucky Educational Television (KET) Debate Coverage

Citizens United v. FEC: 

https://www.fec.gov/legal-resources/court-cases/citizens-united-v-fec/

History of ICE:

https://www.dhs.gov/history

What exactly is “War Putinism” — and how long can it survive?

Jason is joined by Russia expert Mark Galeotti, host of In Moscow’s Shadows, to get inside the increasingly militarised, kleptocratic system Putin has built. They discuss Russia’s recent Duma elections, whether the war economy is devouring Russia’s future, how corruption changes when elites stop believing the system will last forever, and why Russia is so effective at exploiting divisions in Western societies.

Then they Order the Disorder: Jason and Mark disagree agreeably over whether Europe needs greater unity or much bolder action against Russia — before exploring financial enforcement, sanctions, Russian money flows and what the West could actually do to constrain Putin’s capacity to disorder the international system.

And, naturally, there are bears. Lots of rampaging Russian bears.

MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: Can Ukraine actually win? Responding to a listener challenge, Jason and Mark debate what Russian defeat could realistically mean, whether any settlement merely gives Putin time to regroup, and what security guarantees Ukraine would actually need. Plus: even more on Russia’s increasingly disorderly bears.

Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus:

https://disordershow.com/club

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to Ordering the Disorder:

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Mark Galeotti’s In Moscow’s Shadows:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/in-moscows-shadows/id1510124746

In Moscow’s Shadows 264: Russia’s Bear(s) On The March:

https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/in-moscows-shadows-264-russias-bear-s-on-the-march/id1510124746?i=1000791844169

Our recent episode with Hanna Notte — Can Putin Outlast the West (by Disordering it)?:

https://podfollow.com/disorder/episode/35b8c221b3fca72fafb5a4b0fee7924f22d97423/view

Disorder Ep. 196 with Jamison Firestone — Rule of Lies: The Origin Story of Putin’s Russia:

https://podcasts.apple.com/id/podcast/ep-196-rule-of-lies-the-origin-story-of/id1706818264?i=1000777642161

Our previous episode with Sir Bill Browder:

https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/a36160dede2b990a59c34c3c4e8eeece

Join the Mega Orderers Club:

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This is a story about an Israeli and a Palestinian who refuse to give up. Instead, they teach us that “Peace is an action”. Rejecting revenge and rage, Aziz offers an image that stays with us: anger is like nuclear power. It can destroy, or it can light a path. This is a conversation about what it takes to choose the latter, and what the rest of us might do next.

Maoz Inon's parents were killed in the Hamas attacks of 7 October 2023. Aziz Abu Sarah's brother was killed by injuries from torture he suffered in Israeli custody. They have every reason to know what this conflict costs. Together, they insist that its future can still be peace.

In this episode of Out of Order, Mark Lobel, a British Jew and journalist, speaks with the Israeli and Palestinian co-authors of The Future Is Peace, alongside his childhood friend Rida Saïd, a British Muslim, entrepreneur and advisor in the Middle East, dedicated to peace and dialogue in the region.

Their conversation moves from grief and anger to the hard work of building a movement: protecting Palestinian farmers during the olive harvest, teaching young women in the West Bank, creating a place where Israelis and Palestinians can encounter each other’s stories, and pressing people with power to act. 

The peace activists also share their thoughts on: Ed Sheeran, Macklemore, Ed Miliband, the UK government’s sanctions against West Bank settlements, the upcoming Israeli and Palestinian elections and Aziz’s assertion that just three and a half percent of a society can change the social and political structure of a country.

Mark and Rida ask the questions that test that vision. Why spend so much time appealing to audiences abroad? What should happen when language meant to demand freedom makes someone else afraid? And, if the politicians will not lead, who will?

Guests: Maoz Inon, Aziz Abu Sarah, Rida Saïd 

Producer: George McDonagh 

Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad free listening, early release episodes and more:

https://disordershow.com/club

Show Note Links:

Contact Maoz and Aziz’s non-profit organisation here: https://www.iinteract.org/

Buy Maoz and Aziz’s book here: The Future Is Peace, a New York Times bestseller https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Peace-Aziz-Abu-Sarah/dp/1837264074/ref=asc_df_1837264074?mcid=cac2792703583071a5d48985f377d155&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=781185311404&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=700057887293780533&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045954&hvtargid=pla-2449018475226&psc=1&hvocijid=700057887293780533-1837264074-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

Read ‘A Law Catching Up with a Truth We Have Always Known’ by Rida Said: https://www.arabnews.com/opinion/a-law-finally-catching-up-with-a-truth-we-have-always-known-3001235 

Watch Maoz and Aziz’s TED Talk, April 2024: https://www.ted.com/talks/aziz_abu_sarah_and_maoz_inon_a_palestinian_and_an_israeli_face_to_face 

Subscribe to Out of Order on Substack here: https://substack.com/@marklobeltv 

Follow Out of Order on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/outofordermarklobel/?hl=en-gb 

Follow Out of Order on Youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/@OutofOrderwithMarkLobel 

Get in touch with Mark here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/ 

Maoz and Aziz addressing the United Nations, 28th September 2026: https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1i/k1idc71j2y

Four and a half years after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin hasn’t won. But Russia hasn’t been isolated either.

In this episode of Disorder latest, Jason is joined by Russia expert Hanna Notte, author of We Shall Outlast Them: Putin’s Global Campaign to Defeat the West, to explore how the Ukraine war has become the organising principle of Russian foreign policy — and a much wider struggle over global order.

How has Moscow cultivated relationships with China, India, Iran and the Global South? Does Russia actively benefit from global Disorder? And does Putin really need to keep fighting to preserve his regime — or does he continue simply because he believes Russia can still outlast Ukraine and its Western supporters?

Hanna also draws on her years living in and travelling through Russia to unpack stoikost — endurance and resilience — and the Russian narratives of suffering, self-reliance and victimhood.

As they Order the Disorder, they look at what would actually prove Putin’s wager wrong? Hanna argues that Europe needs above all to remain steady: keep Ukraine economically and militarily viable, strengthen its air defences, squeeze Russia’s oil revenues and shadow fleet, and demonstrate that Moscow cannot simply wait for Western resolve to collapse.

For Mega Orderers, hear Jason and Hanna get much more granular about where the war stands right now.

Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus:

https://disordershow.com/club

SHOW NOTES

Buy Hanna Notte’s We Shall Outlast Them: Putin’s Global Campaign to Defeat the West in the UK:

https://www.hatchards.co.uk/book/we-shall-outlast-them/hanna-notte/9781324117018

Hanna Notte discusses We Shall Outlast Them on the Kennan Institute’s The Long View — Putin’s Campaign to Defeat the West:

https://www.kennaninstitute.org/past-events

Mark Galeotti’s In Moscow’s Shadows:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-moscows-shadows/id1510124746

Mark Galeotti on Hidden Forces — The West’s Forgotten War and the New Russia:

https://hiddenforces.io/podcasts/the-wests-forgotten-war-and-the-new-russia-mark-galeotti/

Disorder Ep. 196 with Jamison Firestone — Rule of Lies: The Origin Story of Putin’s Russia:

https://podcasts.apple.com/id/podcast/ep-196-rule-of-lies-the-origin-story-of/id1706818264?i=1000777642161

Disorder with Marcel Dirsus — Dictators’ Disordering Quest for Internal Security:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep67-dictators-disordering-quest-for-internal-security/id1706818264?i=1000669774299

Disorder:

https://disordershow.com/

Mega Orderers Club:

https://disordershow.com/club

It’s our favourite time of the month: listener questions time! Jason and Jane tackle migration and assimilation, the rise of the AfD and neo-populism, and what Keir Starmer’s legacy tells us about the failure of technocratic politics to offer a compelling vision of the future.

Then: is AI going to destroy humanity — or merely our jobs and our sanity? Could agentic AI military systems create their own escalatory feedback loops? And why might we need a kind of NATO for AI?

Finally, we turn to Yemen, the Houthis and the Red Sea, before asking what the Fed’s surprise interest-rate hike tells us about the importance of independent institutions.

Mega Orderers Bonus: Is Unregulated Capitalism Hacking Our Evolution?: Pls join the Mega Orderers Club for this unmissable treatment of topics like… Why does AI flatter us? And what do sycophantic chatbots, sugar, porn, gambling and neo-populist strongmen have in common? Jason and Jane explore evolutionary mismatch and ask whether we need a GLP-1 for our addiction to Disorder.

Join the Mega Orderers Club: https://www.disordershow.com/club

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack -

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube -

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

George McDonagh’s Black Box: The Chatbots series for The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/audio/2026/sep/03/black-box-the-chatbots-spirals-ai-psychosis-podcast

The Guardian on AI sycophancy:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/02/ai-sycophancy-risk-to-society-grasp-reality

The Guardian on the Fed raising US interest rates:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/sep/16/us-federal-reserve-votes-hike-rates

The Guardian on Yemen, the Houthis and the wider regional conflict:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/10/violence-erupts-in-yemen-again-why-it-matters-globally-and-how-it-is-linked-to-the-us-iran-war

The Guardian on the latest anti-Houthi military developments:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/18/yemen-anti-houthi-forces-inquest-military-collapse

Twenty-five years after 9/11, did America respond to an attack on the Western Order by inadvertently helping to disorder that Order itself?

Jason is joined by Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Ben Hodges, former Commanding General of U.S. Army Europe, to look back at 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and the collapse of NATO allies trust in the USA—and forward to how Ukraine can win and the defence of Europe. Hodges argues that military power is only useful when attached to a clear strategic objective and Congressional and popular buy-in: a lesson America repeatedly forgot after 9/11. 

They then turn to Ukraine: drones, long-range strikes, manpower, democratic legitimacy and Europe's continuing failure to develop sufficient air and missile defence. In the Ordering the Disorder section, General Hodges argues that Europe should stop thinking about merely improving Ukraine's negotiating position and instead help it defeat Russia—while rebuilding the alliances and institutions that once magnified American power. 

Join the Mega Orderers Club at disordershow.com/club to get Jason's response to the interview, including his own reflections on 9/11 and whether power without clear objectives, functioning alliances and an idea of the Order it is seeking to create can itself become an engine of Disorder.

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Democrats v Dictators with Ben Hodges on his personal background:

https://youtu.be/9eOKx6iVTx8?is=PJsO4AA9lfIk_5ru 

Ben Hodges — Association of the United States Army:

https://www.ausa.org/people/ben-hodges

NATO — Collective Defence and Article 5:

https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/collective-defence-and-article-5

Disorder — NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder? with Jamie Shea, Kori Schake, Timothy Garton Ash and Charles Kupchan:

https://podfollow.com/disorder/episode/484e21562b7dcd1a1a1f570a09343fd68bf6e732/view

Join the Mega Orderers Club:

https://disordershow.com/club 

A great power battle is emerging between Russia, China and Washington… and Europe teeters on the edge of all three. Could this break up the union? And is the European reliance on America over?

To find out, Jason is joined by author and Director of the Moynihan Center of European Studies at Syracuse University, Glyn Morgan. His latest book The Rise and Fall of American Europe charts the rise and fall of the 80-year history of what he calls American Europe. 

Jason and Glyn discuss how this system emerged off the back of Roosevelt's plans to dismantle both fascism and British imperial power, why it delivered decades of European prosperity, and why that’s now under threat.

Plus: European complacency on defence, Macron's failed warnings, and - as they Order the Disorder - Glyn imagines a future where Europe works together for defense, with Britain’s role as a guardian of the Atlantic Sea. 

To get an extended version of the episode, join the Mega Orderers Club at disordershow.com/club

Producer: Sam Cluley

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Shownotes:

Get The Rise and Fall of American Europe by Glyn Morgan

https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=the-rise-and-fall-of-american-europe--9781509573202

For more on Glyn visit his Syracuse University faculty page

https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/directory/glyn-morgan

For more on our partnership with the New Books Network

https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder

This week, Jason is joined by one of his academic idols, Laura Spinney. Laura is a much-esteemed author of Pale Rider: The Spanish Flu of 1918 and How it Changed the World, and her incredible newer book Proto: How One Ancient Language Went Global.

PROTO tells the story of how modern Indo-European languages came into being North of the Black Sea and then traveled East—the length of the steppe, north of the Caucasus, then into the Silk Roads and the Hindu Kush—and West—from the Hungarian steppe into the forest lands of Western Europe. In this episode, Jason and Laura discuss the Yamnaya nomads who spread these languages throughout the world; the central role of Ukraine in pre-history and its centrality now and in the future as a pivot of human civilization; and as they Order the Disorder: they discuss the need for an institution to preserve global memory, so that we as humans can avoid making the same mistakes of the past.

To get the rest of the bonus content associated with this multi-part episode, i.e. a discussion about who are the Celts and Jason’s views on Proto and how ancient linguistic history can shed light on the demographic and climate change problems of today, join our Mega Orderers Club at disordershow.com/club

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Get Proto: How One Ancient Language Went Global https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/proto-how-one-ancient-language-went-global-laura-spinney?variant=56326451724667 

Listen - Laura Spinney: rise of the proto-Indo-Europeans https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/laura-spinney-rise-of-the-proto-indo-europeans/id1542136715?i=1000708790296 

For more on Laura visit https://www.lauraspinney.com/ 

For more on our partnership with the New Books Network - https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder