Four days after our baby was born, I ran my version of the Sydney Marathon. It took me over four hours. Three weeks later I lined up in Berlin to run a sub 3:30. The only difference was how much I cared about the outcome.

In this episode I get into why the effort we're willing to give changes from one race to the next. Jack Brehm and motivational intensity theory. Three weeks away from my family. Oliver Foran on doing it for something bigger than himself. Fear, and proving it to yourself. The shallow end and the deep end of the pool. What happened at 33 kilometres. A mate's line about wanting and paying. And a mountain you might not need to climb to the top of.

Part one, The Wall Is In Your Head, and part two, Lowering the Effort, are both out now.

This podcast is supported by Denza. Thanks to DENZA Gold Coast for getting behind the show.

Start with parts one and two:

Why do we Quit? (Part 1) #209 Psychological Impacts on Physical Performance: The Wall Is In Your Head: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

Why do we Quit? (Part 2) #213 Psychological Impacts on Physical Performance: Lowering the Effort: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

For more just like this:

#189 Oliver Foran: Mount Everest World Record (Sea Level to Summit), Losing his Mum 16 & Finding His Why: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#165 The Psychology of Finding your Why?: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#160 Andy Buchanan: Finding Purpose In Running: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

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Letty Mortensen was a late bloomer. He turned pro by sending Rusty photo after photo for free until they put him on the team. Then he had a big injury three years running: his shoulder, a fractured tibia, and a hamstring torn off the bone. He was just getting back in the water when a board hit him in the temple and gave him a concussion, in the lead up to a boat trip through a military zone between Russia and Japan. He went anyway and had the adventure of a lifetime!

In this episode Letty and I discuss that trip to the Kuril Islands, a 1200 kilometre chain of volcanic islands that Russia and Japan still fight over, the two locals who started surfing because of Travis Rice, and what it’s like trusting your life to a captain who had never run a surf charter. We talk about the day his hamstring came off the bone, the first thing that went through his head, and how you show a sponsor your value when you can’t surf. Then the concussion: the hour and a half he kept surfing after it, what happened at the butcher’s, the headaches that came back every time he trained, and everyone having an opinion on what he should do. We compare it with my own concussions from footy, and get into the fear of getting hurt again, why he has given up some of his airs, and going all in with no plan B.

Free your team from time-consuming procurement tasks. Discover smart business buying, where unmatched selection meets AI-driven tools to simplify complex processes so you can focus on what matters most. Learn more at amazon.com.au/keegan

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If you enjoyed this you will also enjoy these

#124 Mark Mathews: Recreate the Fear · Apple · YouTube Letty names Mark twice in this episode, both times as the person who made him think differently about being scared of big waves.

#168 World Champion Surfer Molly Picklum: How I Stopped Letting Fear Make My Decisions · Apple · YouTube The same question from the other end of the sport: what happens when you stop letting fear pick for you.

#76 India Robinson: World Surf League, Burnout & Concussions · Apple · YouTube For the concussion stretch in the back half: another surfer on how little the sport knows about heads.

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Most of us already have something we reach for when a session gets hard. Music, a mate beside us, the odd swear word. I wanted to know which of them hold up in the research, and why. This is part two of a three part series on why we quit.

In this episode I get into how to make the same effort feel lighter, and why none of it is a shortcut. The study that sorted songs by beats per minute. Music against podcasts in sprint intervals. Smiling through pain, and someone in a sausage outfit. What my footy coaches used to say to me every pre-season, and whether that voice is baggage or something real. A 2020 study on anger and fear before a run. Swearing and a bucket of ice water. And an Oxford rowing crew who did the same session together and alone.

Part one, The Wall Is In Your Head, is out now. Part three, next week, is Raising the Willingness.

The studies I mention: Terry et al. (2020), Effects of music in exercise and sport: a meta-analytic review. Psychological Bulletin Patania et al. (2020), The Psychophysiological Effects of Different Tempo Music on Endurance Versus High-Intensity Performances. Frontiers in Psychology Stork, Karageorghis & Martin Ginis (2019), Let's Go: Psychological, psychophysical, and physiological effects of music during sprint interval exercise. Psychology of Sport and Exercise Blanchfield et al. (2014), Talking yourself out of exhaustion: the effects of self-talk on endurance performance. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise Giles et al. (2020), When Anger Motivates: Approach States Selectively Influence Running Performance. Frontiers in Psychology Stephens, Atkins & Kingston (2009), Swearing as a response to pain. NeuroReport Stephens, Spierer & Katehis (2018), Effect of swearing on strength and power performance. Psychology of Sport and Exercise Cohen et al. (2010), Rowers' high: behavioural synchrony is correlated with elevated pain thresholds. Biology Letters

This podcast is supported by Denza. Thanks to DENZA Gold Coast for getting behind the show.

Start with part one:

Why do we Quit? (Part 1) #209 Psychological Impacts on Physical Performance: The Wall Is In Your Head: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

For more just like this:

The Psychology of Smiling Through Pain | Episode 181: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#160 Andy Buchanan: Finding Purpose In Running: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube Listening to your shoes hit the ground in a pack comes from Andy.

#172 Rob Dalto: Losing Dad, 38 Marathons & Building the Bronx Burners: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The Bronx Burners is the run club Rob co-founded in New York.

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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Jake Taylor grew up in Sydney before moving to England on his own at 17 to play soccer. Now he's a content creator known for his signature running shot, bringing high-quality filmmaking to running content.

A year ago he ran his first marathon, in Berlin. We recorded the day before this year's race, and I'm grateful he gave up some of that day to sit down with me.

In this episode Jake and I discuss why he walked away from professional soccer at 24. What losing his wife Alex's dad did to his priorities. The stranger who ran past him in Copenhagen to say he was running because of Jake's video. How social media has made a sub-three marathon look normal, when it's far from it. The months of 300 views before anyone watched. And why he believes his best creative ideas come on a run.

This episode touches on grief and mental health. If anything it brings up for you, Lifeline is 13 11 14.

For more just like this:

#144 Bailey O'Brien: Building The Life You Want: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The episode Jake says got him following the show.

#199 Eddie Hearn: What It Takes to Be Great, "You Will Never Outwork Me": Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube Eddie on obsession and family, the conversation I bring up with Jake.

#201 The Psychology of Obsession: A Healthy Dose, and When It Crosses the Line: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The solo I mention recording just before Eddie came in.

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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Nick Pearce opened his first cafe a few days after his 19th birthday and spent the best part of 13 years in hospitality on the Gold Coast. He sold the cafe and the coffee roastery, and then last year set off around Australia in a caravan with his wife and three daughters. He cooked a recipe at every stop, and the cookbook that came out of it is out on pre-order now.

In this episode Nick and I discuss what inspired the decision to travel around Australia. The careers counsellor who told him hospitality wasn't an option. Opening Blackboard at 19, and the experience of having 70 staff and $750k of debt. Why he sold. The story of scone boy, and what inspired him to share his cooking online. Taking his seven year old daughter spearfishing. Routine and ritual on the road with three kids. How a year in a caravan affected his marriage. And what he told the publisher who said nobody makes the book he wanted to make.

This episode with Nick is supported by Dometic. If you want the best gear for your next outdoor adventure, head to Dometic.

Buy Nick's book, Recipearce On The Road, on pre-order now: Pre-order Recipearce On The Road

For more just like this:

#196 Geoff Wilson: 1800km Across the Desert by Wind & Why Hard Times Make Good People: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The mate I quote in this episode on building resilient kids.

#170 Grace Grove: Doctor, Runner & Content Creator | Being Yourself & Ditching Toxic Productivity: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The toxic productivity episode Nick mentions.

#164 Jai Arrow: Fatherhood and What Really Matters: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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Elliott Hagen hosts Mind Your Head, where he's been really open about his own mental health. A while back his wife Jordan gave him a choice, and he went and did the work. He's just become a dad, on the same day I did, so there was no better time to sit down together.

Two new dads reflecting on learnings and life on no sleep. We get into the ultimatum his wife gave him a couple of years ago. Why he had never held a baby until he was 32. And why now was the time, after years of thinking he didn't possess "the qualities to make a good dad".

This episode touches on suicidal thoughts and the death of a baby. If anything it brings up for you, Lifeline is 13 11 14.

For more just like this:

#186 Alexis Fernandez The Neuroscience of Connection, Creativity & Heartbreak: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#131 Geoff Wilson: A Life of Adventure: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The mentor Elliott and I go and see straight after this conversation.

#185 Kori Sampson: You Can't Outthink Your Mental Health, Sobriety, ADHD & the Marathon Majors: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

Elliott has a great podcast of his own. Go and listen to it too: Mind Your Head on Spotify Mind Your Head on Apple Podcasts Mind Your Head on Instagram

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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I spent the last few days going through the research on what actually stops us when we think we are done. This is Part 1 of a 3 Part Series on it, and it is one I have been waiting to make.

In this episode I get into what 8 years of NRL pre-season actually teaches you about the conversation you have with yourself when you want to stop. The study from 2012 where cyclists were tricked into racing a virtual avatar set 2% faster than their own personal best. Johnny Gannon on being curious whats on the other side of fear. Courtney Dauwalter on the pain cave. And a challenge for your next hard session.

Part 2 next week is Lowering the Effort, Part 3, the week after, is Raising the Willingness.

This podcast is supported by Denza. Thanks to DENZA Gold Coast for getting behind the show.

For more just like this:

#198 Johnny Gannon: Bra Boy to Black Belt on Grit, Self Respect and Staying Curious: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube The breath hold story in this episode is his.

#153 James Newbury: Why Most People Quit Too Early: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#162 Jake Barraclough (RanToJapan) : 280km Weeks, Running in Japan & Finding Your Limit: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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This episode includes discussion of suicide and voluntary assisted dying. If anything in it brings something up for you, Lifeline is 13 11 14.

Matt Formston lost most of his vision at five years old, and the doctors told his parents his life was effectively over. He has since won world titles on a bike, been named Australia's best big wave surfer, picked up an Order of Australia medal, run sustainability at Optus and written a book called Why Not. This is his second time on the show. He came back in the same year he lost his dad, and I'm grateful he sat down and went as far into it as he did.

In this episode Matt and I discuss why a kid with five per cent vision would tackle anyone on a footy field, and what he was really trying to prove. We get into the cycling coach who told him no, his formula for trust, standards times consistency times time, the diagnosis at five that his parents accepted and the prognosis they refused, losing one of his best mates at seventeen and the ten years off the rails that followed, the list of twelve things he wrote down in a dark apartment that turned his life around, the two weeks he spent with his dad before his voluntary assisted death in March, the I ams his three kids say out loud before they go to sleep, and the fishing hook that gave his book its name.

If you want to listen to the first episode we did with Matt:

#99 Matt Formston: Blind Surfing. Big Waves. Bigger Vision: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

For more just like this:

#124 Mark Mathews: Recreate the Fear: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#164 Jai Arrow: Fatherhood and What Really Matters: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#105 Jake Baker-Daish: Addiction, Identity & Finding Purpose: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

Follow for more: Podcast Instagram Keegan's Instagram TikTok

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Two weeks ago my wife Em and I had our first baby, a girl. She arrived a fortnight early, a couple of days before the Sydney Marathon we had spent the year planning to run. This week's solo episode is a bit of a life update.

In this episode I get into why her coming early turned out to be the biggest blessing in disguise, what it took to run a marathon on two hours and forty five minutes sleep, what a night with a newborn actually looks like, trying to get a set of squats in between settling her, update on the three majors still to run this year in Berlin, Chicago and New York, and the thing that surprised me most: it is the least I have ever slept in my life and my recovery has been in the green all week.

This podcast is supported by Denza. Thanks to DENZA Gold Coast for getting behind the show.

For more just like this:

#187 Adam Elliott: Injury, Grief & Fatherhood In One Year: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#164 Jai Arrow: Fatherhood and What Really Matters: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#170 Grace Grove: Doctor, Runner & Content Creator | Being Yourself & Ditching Toxic Productivity: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube On letting the standard drop on purpose, and what happens when you do.

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jaz Sloane had never run when she signed up for an Ironman. Ten months later she won her age group at Busselton and qualified for Kona. The year that followed was the most chaotic of her life, and she made the podium at the world championship anyway. 

In this episode Jaz and I discuss the challenging last 12 months; a breakup after five years, getting hit by a car in March, training in a sling, moving cities, house hopping because she could not find a rental, and building a whole new group of friends while she did it. She reckons she is good at positive reframing, and the interesting part is that she had to learn it. She spent two years and real money on mindset work before she started her business as a coach, and that is what carried her through. We also talk about the eating disorder she had in year eight and the trainer who pulled her out of it, why she signed up for a full Ironman with no background in running or cycling, what she does on the days she is not motivated, and why consistency is the most important thing.

For more just like this:

#176 Jacqui Bell: Youngest Person to Run an Ultra on Every Continent: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#170 Grace Grove: Doctor, Runner & Content Creator | Being Yourself & Ditching Toxic Productivity: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube A doctor who runs, on reading your own body instead of pushing through it.

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

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This is the part of my chat with Emily Capodilupo that we keep coming back to. The full episode came out in September 2024, and after sitting down with Lydia O'Donnell it felt like the right time to pull this section out on its own. Emily leads research and data at WHOOP. She was studying pregnancy while she was pregnant, watching her own resting heart rate climb by 15 beats and knowing exactly why. She went for her first run after her daughter was born and was surprised by how comfortable and how fast she felt. Most of what women are told about their bodies after a baby turns out to be social rather than physiological, and she has the data to show it. I'm grateful she talked about her own numbers this openly.

In this episode Emily and I discuss the WHOOP study with West Virginia University that followed 18 women from preconception through postpartum, why a resting heart rate 15 to 20 beats higher in the third trimester is normal, and why recovery afterwards can be better than baseline. She explains what actually needs care on the way back, from a caesarean to diastasis recti and the six week check, and why VO2 max and lung capacity can both come out higher on the other side. We finish on training with the cycle rather than against it, what changes in the follicular and luteal phases, and why you cannot simply move your cycle so a big race lands in the right week.

This podcast is supported by Denza. Thanks DENZA Gold Coast for getting behind the show. https://www.denzagoldcoast.com.au/

For the full episode:

#66 Emily Capodilupo: WHOOP$3.6B Growth, Sleep Consistency Boosts GPA and Alcohol’s Effect on Recovery: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

For more just like this:

#170 Grace Grove: Doctor, Runner & Content Creator | Being Yourself & Ditching Toxic Productivity: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#176 Jacqui Bell: Youngest Person to Run an Ultra on Every Continent: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

#160 Andy Buchanan: Finding Purpose In Running: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube

Listen and subscribe: Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube

Follow for more: Podcast Instagram Keegan's Instagram TikTok

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.