A CMO Confidential Interview with Kate Bullis and David Wiser, Managing Partners and Global Marketing Practice Leaders for ZRG Partners. Kate and David translate their extensive search experience to classify common mistakes into "movie themes" and share tips on how to recognize if you are directing or reading for a part in a disaster film. From "Play It Again, Sam," to "No, No, It's Really A CMO Role!" to "Death by Committee!" they describe the all-too-familiar plotlines and how to tear apart the hype from the facts. Hints: Look at the dashboard, listen to the questions and beware of the "Hands on the keyboard" role. Tune in to hear why companies should focus on outcomes versus qualifications and why you should always check your Zoom background.

What are the five bad “movies” CEOs and boards keep remaking when they hire CMOs—and how do you avoid starring in one? Mike Linton sits down with ZRG Partners’ Kate Bullis and David Wiser to unpack 2025’s CMO market, why early-stage hiring should rebound, and how capital and IPO activity reset expectations from “profit at all costs” back to growth. They break down the most common failure modes—chasing a playbook, hiring an “orchestra,” titling a demand-gen job as “CMO,” forcing marketing to “stay in its lane,” and letting committees kill momentum—and the exact questions candidates and CEOs should ask to surface scope, KPIs, authority, and alignment.

You’ll hear red flags like “hands-on keyboard,” why the KPI dashboard effectively *is* the job description, and how cross-functional interviews reveal whether a CMO will be a strategist or an order taker. David and Kate close with urgency discipline for searches and a three-year business-back plan for defining the role.

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, ZRG Partners, Kate Bullis, David Wiser, CMO hiring, marketing leadership, executive search, CEO, board of directors, hiring mistakes, KPI dashboard, hands-on-keyboard, demand generation, brand vs performance, org design, stay in your lane, death by committee, playbook vs framework, 2025 job market, private equity, IPOs, marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth vs profitability

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Chapters

00:00 – Welcome & show setup

01:08 – Meet Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)

01:32 – 2025 CMO job market outlook

02:56 – Where hiring rebounds first (startups vs. public)

04:24 – From profitability snapback to growth focus

05:35 – Theme 1: “Play it again, Sam” (playbook thinking)

06:48 – Frameworks over playbooks: why “fetch” fails

08:16 – KPIs as the real scope: the dashboard test

10:08 – Theme 2: “I want the orchestra” (do-it-all CMO)

12:44 – Red flag: “hands-on keyboard” and checkbox hiring

14:19 – Theme 3: “No, really, it’s a CMO role” (but it’s demand gen)

15:31 – B2B trap: title inflation and scope mismatch

18:25 – Measure what matters: aligning title, work, and KPIs

19:00 – Theme 4: “Stay in your lane” (the Yes Center)

20:20 – Sales/product-driven constraints and influence

22:00 – Theme 5: “Death by committee” (misalignment & vetoes)

23:18 – Fixing alignment: who decides and how

25:26 – Why bad movies still get made: urgency and drift

27:54 – The other mistake: lack of urgency in searches

28:43 – Funniest recruiting moments (Zoom era)

30:21 – Practical advice: define the next 3 years, then the role

31:29 – Wrap and where to listen

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A CMO Confidential Interview with Tom Stein, the Chairman and founder of Stein and Jann Schwarz, Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation at LinkedIn and founder of Think tank, The B2B Institute, who join us to discuss the 2025 Brand-to- Demand Maturity and the B2B Buyability studies. Tom and Jann share results showing the need to integrate brand and performance marketing in an era when the marketing funnel has collapsed needs fundamental re-thinking and Marketing Qualified Leads (MQLs) are still a key measure (in spite of data showing they've lost their usefulness). Tom and Jann explain why nearly all survey respondents acknowledge a problem but only 20% are taking action. Key topics include: why a good product or service are now "table stakes”; how buyer confidence, human connection and customer experience have become key Buyability differentiators; and the belief that B2B creative is way behind B2C on average. Tune in to hear why “demand-focused marketing" was one of the greatest brand misdirects of all time and a fabulous story of an alter boy accidentally dropping the Baby Jesus.

The Truth Behind the Curtain in B2B: Brand + Demand, MQLs, and “Buyability” with Tom Stein & Jan Schwartz

Description:

Mike Linton sits down with Tom Stein (Stein) and Jan Schwartz (LinkedIn’s B2B Institute) to unpack new ANA research on brand–demand maturity and a bold operating model they call “buyability.” They cover why 80% of marketers say integration matters but aren’t doing it, why MQLs are failing modern buying groups, how to financialize creative and brand, and what CEOs/boards should actually measure to accelerate revenue.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro & guest setup

02:36 Why a brand–demand maturity study now

05:36 The 80% integration gap

07:17 Org design: why teams move slowly

09:36 MQLs under fire (and better alternatives)

10:45 Creative quality in B2B: reality check

13:34 ServiceNow, Idris Elba, and distinctive assets

15:01 The CEO/CFO/Board disconnect

19:00 “Buyability” explained: becoming easier to buy

22:12 Brand as a full-funnel commercial driver

23:40 The funnel is broken; AI ups the stakes

26:59 Playing offense: fewer, better buyer-group leads

28:20 Financializing the case for change

29:56 The budget stat that shocked everyone

31:41 What to do now: category fame, trust, real metrics

34:41 Funniest stories and practical parting advice

37:35 Wrap & where to find more episodes

Tags:

B2B marketing,brand and demand,buyability,MQL,pipeline velocity,CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Tom Stein,Jan Schwartz,LinkedIn B2B Institute,ANA,B2B brand,B2B demand gen,marketing measurement,go to market,Salesforce,ServiceNow,Idris Elba,B2B creative,category fame,board metrics,CFO,CEO,CRO,sales alignment,MarTech,lead gen,buyer groups,brand strategy,revenue growth

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. Joel Shapiro, Managerial Economics & Decision Sciences Professor at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern, formerly Varicent Chief Analytics Officer. Joel discusses his NFL study including why some teams handle injury better then others, the idea of finding variables which can't be seen by the naked eye, and his conclusion that resilience has a lot to do with planning, resource deployment and the foresight to think about potential problems. Key topics include: the importance of back-ups; the ability to find business problems that can be solved with data; and how to use data and AI to predict "bad stuff." Tune in to hear about the "percent cash wasted measure," and how Joel's class beat Las Vegas on predicting last year's NHL playoff teams.

**What NFL Injury Data Teaches Business About Resilience — with Joel Shapiro (Kellogg)**

Northwestern Kellogg’s Joel Shapiro returns to CMO Confidential to unpack a surprising finding: predicting player injury isn’t a “failed use case” — and the lessons translate directly to how leaders design resilient organizations. We cover the data model behind injury prediction, Joel’s “percent cash wasted” metric, the real effect of injuries on winning (including offense vs. defense), why backups matter, and how to build purposeful resilience across sales, supply chain, and leadership. Plus: a student project that beat Vegas and a fearless (and funny) Super Bowl take.

Chapters

00:00 Intro — Why this episode matters for executives

01:10 Joel’s remit: turning data & AI into business outcomes

03:19 Injury prediction isn’t a failed use case

05:45 Why the NFL: clean injury data and an 11-year dataset

07:32 What the model outputs: games likely to be missed

08:51 “Percent Cash Wasted”: paying for injured players

10:15 Do injuries really impact winning? The curve is flatter than you think

12:19 Offense vs. defense: wasted cash effects aren’t equal

13:47 Healthy one year, injured the next: who stays good?

14:36 The lever that breaks teams: losing a highly paid QB

15:25 Purposeful resilience vs. “toughing it out”

16:34 Backups matter — translating roster depth to business

18:29 If you can’t prevent every injury, recruit for availability

19:17 Business translation: resilience in sales, supply chain, and leadership

21:42 Treat resilience as strategy, not back-office insurance

24:22 Which companies are structurally resilient (and why scale helps)

24:49 Joel’s bold pick: the Bears’ weird start and a playful prediction

25:36 Data, betting, and integrity — what changes as information improves

27:25 Students vs. Vegas: NHL playoff models that won

28:20 How much data it really takes (rows, columns, and what matters)

29:54 Wrap and where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Joel Shapiro, Northwestern Kellogg, data science, AI, predictive analytics, NFL injuries, sports analytics, resilience, business resilience, risk management, leadership, percent cash wasted, roster construction, backups, quarterback, offense vs defense, supply chain, sales teams, machine learning, predictive modeling, DraftKings, FanDuel, NHL, Kansas City Chiefs, Chicago Bears, C-suite, marketing leadership, podcast, YouTube chapters

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code and Theory joins us for our 150th Show to share observations on the major forces impacting the B2B space. Michael details how "empowered buyers" are forcing sellers to increase focus on customer value creation and transforming marketing and sales from "leads to information" which is also shifting spending to capital expense. Key topics include: why the next AI frontier is customer experience; the need for companies to have both a long and short-term AI plans; why budgeting won't get any easier and; the gap between the CX problems and CX actions. Tune in to hear why you need to have an "AI plan for your humans" and learn if you need " a personalized relationship with your mustard."

CMO Confidential #150: Michael Treff on B2B’s Year-In-Review, What’s Next, and How AI Will Actually Drive Growth**

B2B is being rebuilt from the core. Michael explains why budgets are shifting from media to infrastructure, how the funnel is being rewritten by agentic search, and where AI must move from efficiency to growth. We also cover the KPIs that matter, budgeting realism for 2026, and three things every CMO should know by the end of next year. Sponsored by Typeface—the agentic AI marketing platform helping brands turn one idea into thousands of on-brand experiences. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Chapters**

00:00 Intro + show setup

01:00 Sponsor: Typeface — agentic AI marketing, enterprise-grade & integrated

02:00 Guest intro: Michael Treff, CEO of Code and Theory

03:00 B2B landscape: investment shifts, changing journeys, disintermediation

07:00 From MQLs to value: sales enablement and end-to-end outcomes

10:00 Mid-roll: Typeface ARC agents & content lifecycle

11:00 Why suites win: implementation and value realization after the sale

15:00 AI phases: Wave 1 (efficiency) → Wave 2 (growth) pressures on agencies

17:00 CX as the bridge: measure outcomes, not vanity metrics

22:00 Roadmaps, humans, and culture—planning beyond point tools

26:00 Budget reality check: deliberation, polarization, and trade-offs

29:00 Personalization vs. business impact—what to fund and measure

33:00 By end of 2026: know your human plan, AI maturity, and new journeys

35:00 2026 prediction: the ROI vice tightens—agencies must be consultative

36:00 Closing advice: “Interrogate everything yourself.”

38:00 Wrap + where to find past episodes

39:00 Sponsor close: Typeface—see how ASICS & Microsoft scale personalization

**About our sponsor, Typeface**

 @typefaceai  is the first multimodal, agentic AI marketing platform that automates workflows from brief to launch, integrates with your MarTech stack, and delivers enterprise-grade security—named AI Company of the Year by Adweek and a TIME Best Invention. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Tags**

B2B marketing, enterprise marketing, customer experience, AI marketing, agentic AI, marketing ROI, sales enablement, Code and Theory, Michael Treff, Mike Linton, CMO strategy, marketing budget, personalization, Martech, Typeface

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A CMO Confidential Interview with Evan Wittenberg, Chief People Officer of VuMedi formerly CPO of Ancestry and Box, Google's Head of Leadership Development, and a Saturday Night Live Page. Evan discusses why HR has become a much tougher position over the last 5 years, AI's negative impact on leadership development, and the similarities between marketing and HR. Key topics include: his belief that every function should have a dedicated people partner; why "the burden of proof" is often higher for marketers; why he always interviews for "learning agility;" and why "doing the job you are hired for is better for your career than trying for "the next job." Tune in to hear questions marketers should ask in an interview and a great behind the scenes story from SNL Season 18.

**What HR Really Thinks About Marketing — Evan Wittenberg (CPO) on CMO Confidential**

Four-time Chief People Officer Evan Wittenberg sits down with host Mike Linton to unpack the real relationship between HR and Marketing: decision rights, how DEI evolves, AI’s impact on entry-level careers, why hybrid work threatens apprenticeship, and what great CMOs do differently at the exec table. Evan also shares hiring signals (what CPOs look for now), the right way to use engagement surveys, and a live-from-8H SNL story you won’t forget.

**Guest:** Evan Wittenberg — CPO (VuMedi; ex-Box, Ancestry, Pivot Bio; Google/Wharton leadership)

**Host:** Mike Linton — former CMO (Best Buy, eBay, Farmers), CRO (Ancestry)

**Chapters**

00:00 – Welcome + sponsor message (Typeface)

02:00 – Evan’s background and today’s HR reality

03:30 – “Seat at the table” meets burnout and intractable problems

04:40 – Inside the COVID pivot: who owned it and why HR took point

06:10 – Should HR own cross-functional crises? Coordination vs. ownership

07:10 – HR ↔ Marketing parallels: everyone has an opinion, few have the brief

09:00 – Sponsor break (Typeface)

10:00 – DEI after the backlash: belonging, equity, and business need

11:30 – Pay parity and what still isn’t fixed

12:00 – AI’s real risk: erasing entry-level ladders and craft-building

13:30 – Hybrid work, lost apprenticeship, and how leaders must respond

15:10 – “People are our #1 asset” (or not): how to actually tell

16:10 – HR nirvana: solutions that serve both the company and the person

18:00 – How HR sees Marketing: service vs. business driver

21:10 – What great CMOs do: range (data ↔ creative) and business framing

22:40 – At the exec table: problem → data → options → choice → execution

24:20 – The higher burden of proof for HR and Marketing

24:40 – Should Marketing have a dedicated HR/People partner?

26:10 – What CPOs now screen for: learning agility

28:00 – AI fluency: no tourists, hands-on only

29:10 – Real collaboration vs. heroics and end-runs

30:40 – Due diligence for candidates: decision rights & cross-functional buy-in

33:00 – Extra interview questions worth asking (on both sides)

34:10 – SNL cold open rescue: the Rob Schneider story

38:30 – Career advice: do the job you have at 120%

40:00 – Sponsor close + sign-off

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Evan Wittenberg, Chief People Officer, CPO, HR strategy, Marketing leadership, DEI, diversity equity inclusion, belonging, employee engagement, pay parity, hybrid work, return to office, mentorship, apprenticeship, AI in HR, AI in marketing, entry-level jobs, recruiting, learning agility, collaboration, decision rights, org design, people partner, HRBP, Box, Ancestry, Pivot Bio, Vmed, Google leadership, Wharton, SNL story, Rob Schneider, executive team, business outcomes, brand vs performance, Typeface, marketing operations, C-suite leadership, career advice

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Kip Knight, founder of CMO Coaches, former CMO of Taco Bell and H&R Block USPresident. Kip lays out the case for marketers to build their brands based on trust, authenticity and personal core principles along with an objective understanding of "what you are really famous for being able to accomplish." Key topics include: why executive presence matters; the combination of emotional IQ and curiosity; the need for resume "proof points;" and why role models matter. Tune in to hear networking tips, why you want to know what "they say about you when you aren't in the room" and the power of a handwritten thank you note.

Kip Knight (Founder, CMO Coaches; former Taco Bell CMO & H&R Block US Retail President) joins Mike Linton to get practical about building a durable *personal brand* as a marketing leader. We cover a three-step framework (self-assessment - positioning - activation), executive presence (IQ + EQ + CQ), how to lead with truth during tough calls, and why handwritten notes still matter.

Sponsored by Typeface — the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Key points**

• Personal brands aren’t accidental: in today’s AI-accelerated market, being findable and consistent is table stakes for senior roles.

• The framework: start with a rigorous self-assessment (360s, reviews, assessments), then define positioning around your true superpowers, and finally activate with proof points.

• Be objective: ambition without a strategy and measurable evidence sets you up to fail; build real proof points before you sell your story.

• Executive presence = IQ + EQ + CQ (curiosity). Lean into new tech (e.g., GenAI) and stay relentlessly curious.

• Truth is better than spin in crises: define reality, be transparent, and your team will follow you through hard decisions (e.g., headcount cuts).

• Culture is the stories told when you’re not in the room; leaders are “always on,” so model consistency and principle-led behavior.

• CMOs as business integrators: convene IT, Legal, Finance, HR, and the CEO to make the right GenAI bets with clear success criteria.

• Power move: send handwritten notes on high-quality stationery; the impact far exceeds email.

**Chapters**

00:00 Welcome + sponsor: Typeface — why brand still wins in the age of AI

03:00 Why your personal brand matters more than ever

06:00 Being findable & consistent in an AI world

07:00 The 3-part framework: self-assessment - positioning - activation

10:00 Doing an honest self-assessment (360s, reviews, Working Genius)

14:00 Turning strengths into positioning; knowing your kryptonite

16:00 Executive presence: IQ, EQ, and CQ (curiosity quotient)

20:00 Truth-telling vs. vulnerability during layoffs and tough calls

23:00 Role models, “always on” leadership, and culture as stories

29:00 CMOs as business integrators on GenAI — how to run the process

32:00 Networking that works: “How can I help you?”, warm intros, no ghosting

34:00 Elite habit: handwritten notes on great stationery (why it lands)

36:00 Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO,marketing leadership,personal brand,executive presence,brand strategy,career development,marketing careers,AI in marketing,agentic AI,Typeface,leadership,coaching,CMO Coaches,Kip Knight,Mike Linton,GenAI,networking,culture,trust,authenticity,handwritten notes,frameworks,positioning,activation,EQ,CQ,P&L,growth,enterprise marketing,YouTube podcast

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A CMO Confidential Interview with Andy Sack and Adam Brotman, Co-Founders and Co-CEO's of Forum 3, authors of the book AI First, previously at Microsoft and Starbucks. Adam and Andy discuss the exponential growth of LLM's in the 3 years since the Chat GPT launch, the rapid pace of consumer adoption and "why there's never been a bigger prize in capitalism." Key topics include: why the circular tie-ups between the models and chip providers may make sense, their belief that only 5% of companies are well underway; why you should use AI at least 10 times a day; and how the "current way of doing business" is the biggest blocker to progress. Tune in to hear 2026 predictions, why you should have a "family password," and how an AI Zoom scam resulted in a $20 million loss for the company.

AI: The Year That Changed Marketing | Andy Sack & Adam Brotman on CMO Confidential

Former Starbucks Chief Digital Officer Adam Brotman and investor/operator Andy Sack return to break down AI’s wild 2025—and what’s next for marketers and the C-suite in 2026. We cover the rise of reasoning models and agents, chip-and-model tie-ups, who’s winning (and who’s falling behind), why only ~5% of companies are truly “underway,” and how consumer behavior is racing ahead of most enterprises. Adam and Andy deliver pragmatic guidance for boards, CEOs, and CMOs: where to lean in, how to organize, and what to build now.

What you’ll learn:

• The real story on model advances, agents, and the chip/energy bottlenecks

• Why supply-lock deals aren’t “circular nonsense” and how they’ll shape winners/losers

• Enterprise reality check: 5% vs. 95%, and why CEO/board sponsorship determines lift-off

• Consumer adoption, zero-click search, and how discovery is shifting under your feet

• Marketing beyond efficiency: ideation, synthetic testing, and creative at production speed

• 2026 predictions: Apple’s big AI move, the year of consumer agents, and new AI devices

• Risk & resilience: deepfake fraud, the “family password,” and change management that sticks

Actionable takeaways:

• Use AI 10×/day; turn on voice and select a “thinking/reasoning” model for complex work

• Treat AI as a company-wide transformation, not an IT pilot; pick a few high-value use cases and own them from the top

• Experiment with agentic workflows and AI video to compress cycle time from storyboard to launch

Sponsored by  @typefaceai 

Typeface helps the world’s biggest brands go from brief to fully personalized, on-brand campaigns in hours—not months. Their agentic AI marketing platform automates workflows across ads, email, and video, integrates with your MarTech stack, and includes enterprise-grade security. Adweek named Typeface “AI Company of the Year,” TIME listed it among the Best Inventions, and Fast Company called it the next big thing in tech. See how brands like  @ASICSGlobal  and  @Microsoft  are transforming marketing with Typeface: typeface.ai/cmo

About CMO Confidential

Hosted by five-time CMO Mike Linton, CMO Confidential goes inside the decisions, politics, and trade-offs of one of the most scrutinized jobs in the C-suite. New episodes every Tuesday on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube.

00:00 Intro & Sponsor: Typeface

02:00 Topic & Guests — Adam Brotman and Andy Sack

03:00 Three-year AI surge: usage, video, geopolitics

06:00 Reasoning models, long-duration agents, chip/energy demand

10:00 Midroll: Typeface

12:00 Capital tie-ups: supply lock vs. “circular money”

15:00 Winners & losers: the AGI race and consolidation

16:00 Enterprise adoption: board/CEO-led change vs. IT pilots

18:50 Reality check: 5% “well underway,” 95% early

22:00 Consumer adoption: everyday use, underutilization

25:00 Can companies keep up? Why most are lagging

27:00 Search is shifting: AI overviews, assistants everywhere

29:00 Marketing beyond efficiency: ideation, automation, CX

31:00 AI video examples to study (Kalshi ad, IAm8)

33:30 Agencies & consultancies adapting (Accenture, BCG, McKinsey)

34:30 2026 predictions: Apple’s big move, year of agents, new devices

36:00 2026 tensions: labor disruption, backlash, “bumpy” progress

38:00 Practical tips: use AI 10×/day, voice mode, “thinking” models

41:00 Tools & safety:  @lovable  family/business passwords

42:00 Deepfake/Zoom heist cautionary tale

44:00 Wrap-up: subscribe & episode library

44:30 Closing Sponsor: Typeface

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CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Adam Brotman,Andy Sack,Typeface,agentic AI,AI marketing,marketing strategy,chief marketing officer,CMO,CEO,board strategy,enterprise AI,reasoning models,AI agents,AGI,LLMs,generative AI,Claude,Gemini,ChatGPT,NVIDIA,semiconductors,MarTech,creative automation,personalization,zero click search,search disruption,media buying,advertising,brand vs performance,organizational design,change management,digital transformation,customer experience,synthetic personas,AI video,SOA,Sora,Replit Agent,Apple AI,Perplexity,security,deepfakes,family password,go to market,content at scale,ASICS

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Mike Walrath, Chairman and CEO of Yext, Inc., formerly CEO of Right Media, and SVP at Yahoo! Mike discusses what he believes is the collapse of the marketing funnel, the need to understand how AI consumes data while judgement stays with consumers, and how an "influence marketing" mindset is emerging. Key topics include: why CMOs will need to be both great brand strategists as well as scientists, the need to constantly distribute information and "tend it like a garden," and why Reddit is great for training AI, but not as important in building brand influence. Tune in to hear a story about why you shouldn't let ChatGPT talk in an unsupervised forum and why Land Rover should send me a polo shirt.

This week, Mike Linton sits down with Mike Walrath, Chairman & CEO of  @yext  (and founder of WGI Group), to unpack why the classic awareness–consideration–conversion funnel is collapsing—and what CMOs must do next. From zero-click discovery and AI agents “front-ending” consumers to why structured first-party data now beats pretty websites, Walrath maps the new rules for brand, distribution, and measurement in an AI-led marketplace.

We cover: how consideration gets outsourced to AI, why marketers will “market to agents” (without controlling the ad copy), the coming arms race in citations and data distribution, and what organizational fixes boards and CMOs should make now. If you own brand, growth, or P&L accountability, this is a playbook for the next chapter.

**Sponsor —  @typefaceai 

Typeface helps the world’s biggest brands move from brief to fully personalized campaigns in hours, not months. With its agentic AI marketing platform, one idea scales into thousands of on-brand variations across ads, email, and video—integrated with your MarTech stack and secured for the enterprise. See how brands like ASICS and Microsoft are transforming marketing: typeface.ai/cmo.

Highlights

* Why “zero-click” compresses awareness and consideration inside AI experiences—and how to win the AI bake-off.

* The end of marketer-controlled ad copy; influence shifts to data quality, recency, and distribution.

* Memory and context change everything: agents know the consumer—and your brand—better than you think.

* Brand matters more, not less; without brand salience you won’t make the answer set.

* From content to data: make every spec, price, menu, inventory, policy, and promo machine-readable and syndicated.

* Citations, not vibes: first-party sites and listings dominate AI references; keep them fresh and authoritative.

* Org design: hire the data athletes, upgrade infrastructure, and instrument real conversion milestones (tests, visits, units).

New episodes every Tuesday on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify. If you find this useful, please like, subscribe, and share with your team.

**Guests**

Mike Walrath — Chairman & CEO, Yext; Founder, WGI Group.

Host: Mike Linton — former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance; former CRO, Ancestry.

CMO Confidential,marketing,CMO,chief marketing officer,AI marketing,agentic AI,marketing funnel,zero click,search,SEO,GenAI,LLM,brand strategy,performance marketing,Yext,Mike Walrath,Mike Linton,customer journey,personalization,content at scale,structured data,citations,data strategy,MarTech,go to market,GTM,board strategy,enterprise marketing,retail,automotive marketing,restaurants,media,advertising,Typeface sponsor,Typeface AI,typeface.ai/cmo

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Jim Lecinski, Clinical Professor of Marketing at the Kellogg School of Management, author, and former Google VP. Jim discusses why he believes marketers are often overly focused on using AI for productivity improvements versus business growth, the gaps between marketers and the C-Suite highlighted by recent Gartner research, and the difference between "big frontier models" and "shiny objects." Key topics include: why you should avoid "gray market AI", how to manage the 5 AI risks (privacy, accuracy, regulatory, personnel, and reputation), and the false precision that accompanies a focus on intermediate measures like Click Through Rate (CTR). Tune in to hear why he's not a fan of Cannes and how AI helped figure out a wedding invitation calling for "casual to semi-formal beach attire."

What should CMOs actually do with AI right now—and how do you avoid chasing shiny objects? Mike Linton sits down with Jim Lecinski, Professor of Marketing at Northwestern’s Kellogg School (and author of The AI Marketing Canvas and Winning the Zero Moment of Truth) to unpack the AI application layer: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Jim explains why CEOs-CFOs obsess over growth (not merely efficiency), how to reframe marketing dashboards around business outcomes, and his simple two-by-two for AI use cases (internal productivity vs. external value creation). We cover privacy, legal/regulatory, personnel, and reputational risks—and how to mitigate them—plus a pragmatic roadmap: center on a leading frontier model and layer vetted apps instead of stitching together fragile point solutions. Jim also shares candid takes on Cannes vs. Effies and ends with a challenge: personally build something with AI before year-end.

You’ll learn:

* Growth over cost-cutting: aligning with CEO-CFO priorities and measuring ends, not means

* The AI use-case 2×2: internal productivity vs. external, customer-facing value creation

* Practical examples (e.g., apparel personalization) that lift CSAT, CLV, and revenue

* The 5 risk buckets (privacy, accuracy, regulatory-IP, personnel, reputation) and guardrails

* How to choose core models (GPT, Gemini, Claude) and avoid “tool soup”

* Why awards that honor outcomes beat awards that celebrate activity

Guest: Jim Lecinski — Professor of Marketing, Northwestern Kellogg; former VP Customer Solutions (Americas) at Google; author of The AI Marketing Canvas (2nd ed.) & Winning the Zero Moment of Truth.

Host: Mike Linton — former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance; CRO of Ancestry.com.

Sponsor: Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at (https://www.quad.com/resources/research-and-tools/return-of-touch-consumer-engagement-has-an-omnichannel-revival?utm_source=cmoconfidential&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=001_brand&utm_id=podcastnl1031&utm_content=a-paidemail&utm_vp=)

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Abhay Parasnis, Founder & CEO of Typeface, Board Member of Dropbox and Schneider Electronic, formerly EVP of Adobe. Abhay discusses the large gap between AI expectations and execution, the human and cultural issues in the way of adoption, and the C-Suite's responsibility to "guide the change" versus demand and monitor progress. Key topics include: recognizing and managing the 3 types of resistance; why specific targeted use cases are the best way to begin; the difference between Moore's Law and Amara's Law; and how to determine if you are a resistor or a pragmatic business leader. Tune in to hear an analogy of why AI is similar to Formula One where everyone has a powerful vehicle and winning is driven by how teams master and manage that power.

AI is the biggest shift of our careers—but most companies are stuck at the “cool demo” stage. In this episode, former Adobe CTO/CPO and Typeface founder/CEO Abhay Parasnis joins Mike Linton to unpack the AI cold start problem: how to move from experiments to enterprise impact. We cover where the C-suite is pushing, why practitioners are hesitating, and how to design lighthouse wins that change the org—not just the deck.

Abhay shares hard numbers (a 93% lift from email personalization in 120 days), why “watermelon metrics” derail programs, and the new reality that as agents/bots consume more content, your brand narrative must be built for machines and humans. We dig into the accountability shift from agencies to in-house teams, how to evaluate vendors without boiling the ocean, and the culture moves leaders need to close the gap between ambition and adoption.

What you’ll learn

A practical AI playbook: pick one revenue-adjacent use case, rewire the process, measure before/after, then scale

How to align the board, C-suite, and operators to avoid “innovation theater”

Where AI drives top-line growth vs. simple cost takeout—and how to prove it

Spotting resistance (job loss fears, “new thing” fatigue, agency incentives) and converting it into momentum

The right vendor questions (and red flags) to separate sizzle from outcomes

Why authenticity, governance, and legal guardrails must ship with your AI stack

About Abhay

Founder & CEO of Typeface (AI-powered personalized marketing). Former CTO & CPO at Adobe; leadership roles at Microsoft and Oracle; board member at Dropbox and Schneider Electric.

Sponsor — Quad

Marketing only works when everything works together. That’s why Quad is obsessed with reducing friction and integrating smarter—so your marketing machine runs faster with better ROI. See how better gets done: https://www.quad.com/buildbetter

Chapters (38:00)

00:00 Intro & sponsor

01:10 Guest intro & topic setup

03:10 The AI cold start problem & Amara’s Law

07:00 C-suite urgency vs. practitioner reality

11:30 Beyond efficiency: driving top-line growth

15:10 Content demand, bots/agents, and “watermelon metrics”

19:20 Case study: 93% lift from email personalization

23:30 Resistance patterns: job loss, new-thing fatigue, agency economics

29:10 Vendor questions & lighthouse projects that actually ship

33:10 Legal, authenticity, and governance considerations

35:30 Closing advice: beginner’s mindset + bet on people

37:30 Wrap

Subscribe

New episodes every Tuesday on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify. If you’re a CMO, CEO, CFO, COO, founder, or rising marketing leader—hit subscribe for executive-level conversations that translate directly to results.

Host: Mike Linton

Guest: Abhay Parasnis ( @typefaceai  )

Tags:

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Abhay Parasnis,Typeface,Adobe,AI in marketing,AI cold start,Generative AI,Amara’s Law,Marketing leadership,Change management,C suite,Board of directors,Agency model,Marketing efficiency,Top line growth,Email personalization,Content at scale,Marketing ROI,Measurement,Watermelon metrics,MarTech,CDP,Vendors,Quad,Sponsor,Marketing podcast,Digital transformation,Creative operations,Personalization

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"Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales, and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard starts with the basics of salary, bonus and equity and branches out to compensation mix, the various types of equity, negotiating best practices, and the "other" elements of an offer. Key topics include: why the devil is in the details; when and how to discuss compensation; the difference between dumb luck and bad luck; and why everyone should do a "multi-year cash flow analysis." Tune in to hear why you should always read the proxy statement and the importance of being prepared to explain how you are using AI.

In Part 2, host Mike Linton sits back down with Spencer Stuart Practice Leader Richard Sanderson to get tactical about comp negotiations, severance, equity, and managing your team through pay anxiety. If you’re a CMO (or headed there), this episode is your field guide to securing a fair offer and stewarding compensation conversations with your org.

Points of interest:

• Your moment of maximum leverage: why the verbal offer is the prime time to align on comp—and how to use that window without damaging trust.

• How different companies negotiate: spotting “full & fair” one-shot offers vs. multi-round negotiators—and how to work the process with your recruiter as a broker to keep heat and emotion out.

• Beyond base and bonus: what’s often negotiable (e.g., severance, sign-on/bridge, relocation, start date, work location, travel, even one-offs) and how to prioritize your asks.

• Severance norms & timing: what policies typically look like (e.g., 6–12 months in many cases), when to ask, and why it’s safest through the recruiter.

• Feeling underpaid? Building a data-backed case with market signals, peer benchmarks, recruiter insight—and how proxy statements can ground internal conversations.

• Underwater equity & team morale: acknowledging pain, reframing to a long-term vision, and understanding annual equity refresh dynamics (timing matters).

• Do the 5-year cash-flow analysis: compare current state vs. new offer (vesting, cliffs, bridge needs) so you don’t get surprised in Year 1–2.

• Today’s relocation reality: mortgage-rate math and why moves can be financially punitive—plan your package accordingly.

• Offer etiquette & reputation risk: why turning down a written offer is a red flag on process—and why reneging after signing can follow you.

• Be ready for the AI question: every senior marketing interview now probes AI use cases, impact, and CFO alignment—have crisp examples.

Sponsored by Quad

Marketing only works when everything works together. Quad helps your marketing machine run with less friction and smarter integration—so you get speed, efficiency, and ROI. Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at www.quad.com/buildbetter.

If you missed Part 1, go watch that next—then subscribe for weekly conversations with leaders who’ve sat in the CMO chair.

#CMOConfidential #CMO #ExecutiveCompensation #MarketingLeadership #Negotiation #Equity #Severance #AIinMarketing #SpencerStuart #MikeLinton #RichardSanderson #Quad

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