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Jeff Annison and Paul Scanlan, Emmy-winning co-founders of the world's first fan-owned entertainment company, Legion M, join host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about disrupting industries, building communities, and betting on the audience. Annison and Scanlan pioneered mobile television at MobiTV and launched the very first equity crowdfunding campaign in U.S. history. The duo have spent two decades proving that the audience is the most powerful force in entertainment.

Chicago, Boston, and a Love of Film (01:48): Paul Scanlan traces his passion for filmmaking to the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and to a family trip to Cape Cod where seeing Jaws at age five both terrified and captivated him. Jeff Annison arrived at storytelling through an unlikely path: a mechanical engineering degree at UCLA and a series of screenwriting classes taken on a lark.

MobiTV: Putting Television on a Flip Phone (07:18): The two founders recount how a mutual friend with a micro-display technology brought them together in 1999 to build what would become MobiTV, the first company to stream live television to mobile phones.

Colossal (25:49): Legion M's first major move was a small P&A investment alongside the distributor Neon on the Anne Hathaway film Colossal. With just 3,500 investors and a million dollars, they organized screenings and community meetups.

Community as Marketing Engine (29:54): Annison and Scanlan explain how Legion M's 60,000-plus investors are an organic grassroots marketing force. As Scanlan puts it, communicating with their community costs nothing but can drive millions in box office.

Saving Coyote vs. Acme (35:25): One of the most discussed projects in recent Hollywood history found new life through Catchup Entertainment. Legion M is partnering on its release, and the trailer has already surpassed 50 million views.

Advice for the New Filmmaker (43:22): Annison urges emerging creators to start with the end in mind, thinking not just about the key scene but about how to communicate a story in a brief window of attention. Scanlan adds a hard truth: the industry is more entrepreneurial than most people expect, and selling to a major studio is rarely the path.

On Being on the Side of the Audience (56:44): Annison reflects on what keeps him grounded amid industry uncertainty and the rise of AI: the belief that no matter what technology produces, only human beings pay to watch movies. Building a company on the side of the audience, he argues, is the most defensible position in entertainment.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Jeff Annison and Paul Scanlan
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Legion M:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_M
Website: https://legionm.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/legionmofficial/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Mark Canton, producer of 300, Immortals, Men in Black, Air Force One, and My Best Friend's Wedding, former President of Worldwide Production at Warner Bros., and former Chairman of Columbia Pictures and Columbia TriStar Motion Picture Companies, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about a career defined by passion and instinct. From delivering mail on the Warner Bros. lot as a college student to greenlighting some of Hollywood's most beloved films, Canton reflects on the legends he learned from, the risks he took, and why he still smells the circus every time he walks onto a sound stage.

Queens, New York, and Family (02:40): Canton traces his love of film to a father who survived being shot down over France in WWII, won an Oscar for a short film on Van Gogh, and went on to do publicity for Hitchcock and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and to a mother who was a published poet. The movies, he says, were always destiny.

Learning from the Greats on Papillon (15:30): Working for director Franklin Schaffner in Jamaica and living between the houses of Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman, Canton learned what it meant to commit to a film.

From the Warner Bros. Mail Room to Running the Studio (31:52): Canton traces his rise from UCLA film student to head of Worldwide Production at Warner Bros., sharing stories about the Vacation franchise, Caddyshack, and Lethal Weapon.

Taking the Helm at Columbia Pictures (41:28): Recruited by Peter Guber and Jon Peters, Canton became Chairman of Columbia Pictures and later oversaw Columbia TriStar. He reflects on the team he assembled and the record-breaking run that followed, including Jerry Maguire, My Best Friend's Wedding, Bad Boys, and Air Force One.

The Art of the Difficult Screening (47:02): Canton recounts two defining test screening moments: a chaotic preview of Scorsese's The Age of Innocence in a New Jersey bowling alley, and a tough audience response to Luc Besson's Léon: The Professional that led to an ultimatum and a reworked film that became a modern classic.

The Cable Guy and No Regrets (49:35): Canton defends paying Jim Carrey $17 million and notes what history confirmed: the film launched Ben Stiller's directing career, introduced Jack Black, Owen Wilson, and Judd Apatow. He also recalls his affectionate standoff with Mike Nichols over the ending of Wolf.

What Keeps Audiences Coming Back (54:09): Canton argues that what fills theaters today is the same thing that made Purple Rain a phenomenon: the feeling of a live, communal, irreplaceable experience.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Mark Canton
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Mark Canton:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Canton
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004799/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markcanton/?hl=en

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Mark Johnson, Academy Award-winning producer of Rain Man and Emmy Award-winning executive producer of Breaking Bad, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about a career defined by creative restlessness and uncommon decency. The interview ranges from his transformative partnership with Barry Levinson, which produced Diner, The Natural, and Good Morning Vietnam, to shepherding beloved films like The Notebook, A Little Princess, Donnie Brasco, and Galaxy Quest to championing an unknown writer named Vince Gilligan, Johnson reflects on what it means to serve a director's vision, why he refuses to make the same movie twice, and how audience testing changed the way he thinks about filmmaking.

Never the Same Movie Twice (02:14): Johnson explains his resistance to repeating himself across genres. From Galaxy Quest to The Notebook to Breaking Bad, he compares his varied tastes to simply deciding what he wants for breakfast.

Meeting Barry Levinson (04:07): Johnson recalls how a chance connection on the Mel Brooks comedy launched one of Hollywood's most fruitful producing partnerships, and what he learned from working alongside a director who always began with character.

The Lesson of Good Morning Vietnam (13:12): Johnson describes how audience testing transformed his understanding of filmmaking, including working with the mercurial and brilliant Robin Williams and the pivotal decision to restore a scene with J.T. Walsh.

Winning the Oscar for Rain Man (18:29): Johnson reflects on the bittersweet experience of winning Best Picture for a film he credits largely to others, Tom Cruise's underappreciated subtlety in the role, and the one name he forgot to thank from the podium.

The Closest Thing to a Perfect Movie (26:08): Johnson singles out Alfonso Cuarón's A Little Princess as the film he holds most dear as a lesson in collaborative craftsmanship.

Discovering Vince Gilligan (30:06): In 1988, Johnson read a script by an unknown writer at a Virginia Film Festival jury and knew immediately he was in the presence of singular talent. He details how he championed Gilligan for years before Breaking Bad made the world take notice.

The Producer's True Role (38:57): Johnson shares what he hopes listeners take away — that his passion for moviemaking is as alive today as when he started, and that a producer's job is never to claim ownership of a film, but to help a director realize their vision.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Mark Johnson
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Mark Johnson:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Johnson_(producer)
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0425741/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-johnson-3bbb7a9

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Ann Sarnoff, the first woman to serve as Chair and CEO of a major Hollywood studio and named one of Forbes' World's Most Powerful Women, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about her path from a working-class upbringing in Massachusetts to the top of the entertainment industry. From her early days at Nickelodeon pioneering audience research, to guiding Warner Bros. through one of the most turbulent periods in Hollywood history, to her current role on the boards of major entertainment companies, Sarnoff shares insights on leadership, the power of knowing your audience, and what theaters must do to survive.

From Wilbraham to Warner Bros. (03:11): Sarnoff discusses her roots in a blue-collar, Polish-Catholic family in Massachusetts, where she played three varsity sports, instilling competitive instincts and teamwork skills that would define her leadership style.

Georgetown, Harvard, and the Road to Media (04:06): With no family connections to the industry and student loans to repay, Sarnoff built her foundation in strategy consulting before finally making her move into media.

Nickelodeon and MTV (22:23): As head of strategy and research at Nickelodeon, Sarnoff championed deep audience research, running 200 focus groups a year. That rigor produced breakout hits like Rugrats and Blue's Clues.

Audience as North Star (21:21): Sarnoff explains how cable television changed the broadcast model by starting with the customer, building channels around specific passions rather than the broadest possible reach. That philosophy of programming for real audiences became the throughline of her entire career.

Breaking the Barrier at Warner Bros. (28:03): Ann shares her experience of becoming the first female CEO of Warner Bros. in 2019 and occupying Jack Warner's office, her picture joining a wall of men dating back to 1923. Sarnoff reflects on the women who came before her, and guiding the iconic studio through a pandemic, a streaming revolution, and a corporate merger.

What Comes Next (36:00): Sarnoff breaks down how the combination of streaming, COVID-era demand, and supply-side surplus led to a wave of content the industry is only now working through. She's cautiously optimistic that a leaner, more creatively diverse slate is emerging on the other side.

Theaters as Third Spaces (47:04): Drawing on her board role at Regal Cineworld, Sarnoff argues that the future of theatrical exhibition lies in becoming a communal “third space, and that the only real limit is imagination.”

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Ann Sarnoff
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Ann Sarnoff:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Sarnoff
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2115707/
Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ann-sarnoff/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Stuart Ford, Chairman and CEO of AGC Studios and one of the most influential figures in independent cinema, joins host Kevin Goetz for a candid conversation about his journey from Oxford-educated lawyer to Miramax insider to founder of two major independent studios. Ford reflects on the mentors, deals, and instincts that shaped his career, and shares an optimistic vision for the future of independent film in an era of AI, streaming, and global market expansion.

From Liverpool to Hollywood (04:17): Ford traces his unlikely path from an upbringing in Liverpool through Oxford, where he studied law and caught the entrepreneurial bug managing bands, to becoming an entertainment attorney during the British cinema boom of the early 90s.

Miramax: The Real Film School (09:26): Drawn to the energy of American independent cinema, Ford leveraged his relationship with Miramax's UK office into a move to New York, where he rose to senior executive, co-heading acquisitions and ultimately leading international sales, working with filmmakers including Quentin Tarantino, Anthony Minghella, and James Mangold.

The Birth of IM Global (14:55): After leaving Miramax, Ford moved to Los Angeles, borrowed $5 million from a London hedge fund, and launched IM Global in 2007.

Paranormal Activity (19:50): Ford recounts acquiring the international rights to Paranormal Activity for $250,000 while the film languished at DreamWorks, then orchestrating a midnight screening that helped persuade Paramount to release it. Kevin Goetz reveals that a reshoot suggested by Steven Spielberg raised test scores by 15 to 20 points and sealed the deal.

Launching AGC Studios (29:17): After selling IM Global to a Chinese private equity group, Ford launched AGC Studios in 2018. AGC has since produced nearly 45 films and television shows, including Hitman, Woman of the Hour, The Tinder Swindler, and Those About to Die.

The Art of Risk Management (32:57): Ford lays out his core investment philosophy: financial and creative risk are inseparable, and the key is to manage both simultaneously. He offers Ron Howard's Eden as a case study in successful risk management.

The Future of Independent Film (43:23): Ford shares an optimistic outlook for the independent sector, citing evolving streaming models, cost reductions, and growth in international markets as reasons for optimism. His message for the next generation is simple: responsible filmmaking doesn't mean compromising on creativity. It just means doing it at the right number.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Stuart Ford
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Stuart Ford:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Ford_(entertainment_executive)
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1023349/
AGC Studios: https://www.agcstudios.com/stuart-ford

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Filmmaker Ric Roman Waugh joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about his unconventional path from stuntman's son to one of Hollywood's most distinctive action directors. Waugh discusses growing up inside the stunt world, his mentors, and his mission to make commercial action films that also deliver an important message. During the conversation, he touches on his collaborations with Dwayne Johnson, Gerard Butler, and Jason Statham, and on films such as Felon, Snitch, Shot Caller, Angel Has Fallen, Greenland, and Shelter that have defined his brand of character-driven action movies.

Working with Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer (02:47): Waugh credits Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer as the mentors who shaped his collaborative instinct…leaders who respected everyone on set, demanded the best, and inspired those around them.

Growing Up in Stunts Unlimited (06:13): Waugh's father, Fred Waugh, was a founding member of Stunts Unlimited, the legendary stunt group led by Hal Needham. Ric grew up on sets and, to his father’s disappointment, was more dazzled by the stuntmen than the movie stars.

In the Writers' Room (15:20): Before directing, Waugh spent years writing originals for producers like Mark Gordon, Neil Moritz, and Jerry Bruckheimer. He describes how this process taught him how Hollywood actually worked.

Finding His Voice and Making Felon (17:54): Inspired by Sidney Lumet's socially-conscious entertainments, he researched the California prison system, became a volunteer parole agent, and made Felon on spec.

Snitch and Dwayne Johnson (24:10): Working with Dwayne Johnson on Snitch was a pivotal experience for Waugh. Both men were at a crossroads in their careers, and this film helped clarify Waugh’s mission: to use the commercial action films as a Trojan horse for social commentary.

The Audience Is the Real Collaborator (29:56): Waugh reflects on his long working relationship with Kevin Goetz and the role of test screenings in his process. Waugh shares how he uses early and formal audience feedback to identify what isn't being communicated.

Marketing in a Distracted World (46:10): Waugh and Goetz discuss the challenge of building audiences for original stories amid the declining effectiveness of traditional marketing.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with a fellow film lover. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes stories next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Ric Roman Waugh
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Ric Roman Waugh:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Roman_Waugh
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006846/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ric.roman.waugh/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Hollywood icon Robert Wagner (known as “RJ”) joins host Kevin Goetz for an intimate, wide-ranging conversation about his life and career. From caddying alongside Clark Gable and Cary Grant to starring opposite Spencer Tracy. From the golden age of the studio system to reinventing himself as a television star, Wagner reflects on the journey that made him one of Hollywood's most enduring figures, later delighting a new generation of audiences as Number 2 in the Austin Powers films. He also reflects on his personal life, including his marriage to actress Natalie Wood, and the family and friendships that shaped him, including his wife of nearly four decades, Jill St. John.

Caddying for Legends (06:21): Wagner recounts his early days as a caddy, where he found himself watching Clark Gable, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, and Randolph Scott walk down the fairway.

Marilyn Monroe and Screen Tests (09:22): As Fox's go-to "screen test guy," Wagner did Marilyn Monroe's first two tests. His own breakthrough came when Zanuck cast him as a shell-shocked soldier in With a Song in My Heart.

Spencer Tracy as Mentor (14:49): Working alongside Tracy in Broken Lance, Wagner earned the older actor's respect and friendship.

Advice from Cary Grant (18:07): When Wagner was preparing to play a thief for It Takes a Thief, he went to Grant for guidance. Years later he would become a television icon again opposite Stefanie Powers in Hart to Hart.

Lou Wasserman and the Move to Television 18:41): At a time when television was considered beneath film stars, Lew Wasserman called Wagner in and told him, "I think this is your medium."

Barbara Stanwyck and Bette Davis (22:43): Wagner speaks warmly about his three-year relationship with Barbara Stanwyck. He also recalls reaching out to Bette Davis after she publicly praised his work.

John Ford Knocks Him Down…Literally (26:39): On the set of a John Ford film, Wagner followed a script direction and glanced toward where music was playing. Ford stopped the scene, questioned him, and knocked him down.

Pink Panther (29:21): When the studio system collapsed, and Fox dropped its contract players, Wagner moved to Rome and worked on The Pink Panther, his all-time favorite film.

Jill St. John, Family, and Friends (36:16): In one of the episode's most moving moments, Wagner reflects on the profound role friends and family have played in his life.

Few careers in Hollywood history span as many eras, genres, or legends as Robert Wagner's, and fewer still have been lived with such grace. 

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Robert Wagner
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Robert Wagner:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wagner
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001822/
Website: https://www.robert-wagner.com/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes Bob Cooper, the influential executive who helped transform HBO from a movie channel into a creative powerhouse, producing landmark films like The Josephine Baker Story and Barbarians at the Gate, and who later shaped the theatrical landscape as President of Tri-Star Pictures and head of development and production at Dreamworks, where he championed American Beauty. From prosecuting organized crime in Montreal to greenlighting American Beauty, Bob's career is a lesson in reinvention and risk-taking.

Finding Your "And" (00:28): Bob traces his winding path from studying acting at the Pasadena Playhouse to law school to founding Canada's first storefront legal aid office to prosecuting organized crime to hosting a national investigative news program.

The Birth of HBO Originals (14:47): When his early Canadian film production company collapsed, Bob flew to New York in desperation and pitched HBO on making original movies, starting with The Terry Fox Story.

No Vanilla Allowed (19:34): Bob developed a strategy of bold, true-story-based films that couldn't be seen in theaters or on network TV. The Josephine Baker Story became the blueprint.

The Projects Nobody Wanted (22:29): Bob consistently bet on the projects others passed on, championing films like And the Band Played On, Barbarians at the Gate, and The Positively True Adventures of the Alleged Texas Cheerleader-Murdering Mom.

Tristar and Jerry Maguire (28:26): Bob shares how he helped crack the marketing code on Jerry Maguire by identifying its core theme as "a comedy about not selling out.”

Dreamworks and American Beauty (37:22): At Dreamworks, Bob got Steven Spielberg to read a script that was almost impossible to pitch – American Beauty. Spielberg read it overnight, called a meeting the next morning, and immediately declared it "an Academy movie."

Meet the Parents and the Spielberg Phone Call (41:25): Bob spotted an unmade script at Universal called Meet the Parents and brought it to Spielberg, who simply picked up the phone and called Edgar Bronfman on the spot to acquire it.

What Makes Stories Universal (47:15): Bob shares his deepest creative philosophy: that pain is the engine of every great story, including comedy. He closes with a moving account of his current stage project about Bobby Kennedy.

Bob Cooper's career is a reminder that unconventional paths often lead to the most enduring work. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Bob Cooper
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer & Editor: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with Academy Award-winning producer Charles "Chuck" Roven, the co-founder of Atlas Entertainment, one of Hollywood’s most enduring and successful production companies. Across four decades, Chuck has built a producing career defined by creative ambition and commercial scale — including five of the 100 top-grossing films of all time.  From his early struggles to winning the Academy Award for Oppenheimer, Chuck’s journey reveals how smart dealmaking, creative instinct, and relentless tenacity shaped one of the most impressive producing legacies in modern Hollywood.

From Czechoslovakia to Cinderella Homes (03:22): Chuck's father escaped post-war Europe and built a real estate empire in Los Angeles, teaching Chuck the principle of horizontal business.

Dawn Steel (08:16): Chuck recounts meeting his first wife, Dawn Steel, who revolutionized her way into Hollywood through merchandising hits like Gucci toilet paper before becoming Paramount's president of production.

The 90-Day Escrow Deal (20:48): Instead of optioning Dick Tracy, Chuck negotiated a 90-day escrow deal to "check the title," wrote a script, and sold it to Universal.

12 Monkeys and the Art of International Financing (30:34): Chuck explains how he assembled a consortium of international partners to co-finance Terry Gilliam's $32 million film.

The Phone Call That Led to Batman Begins (36:30): After producing the hit Scooby-Doo, Chuck received a call inviting him to partner with an up-and-coming director named Christopher Nolan on a little project called Batman Begins.

Bringing Oppenheimer to Nolan and Winning the Oscar (37:29): Chuck recounts how he brought the Oppenheimer project to Christopher Nolan. The film earned 11 Oscar nominations and Chuck's first Best Picture win.

Making Mercy (42:24): Chuck describes developing the "Screen Life" concept into the thriller Mercy, featuring an AI judge with access to every camera and computer.

The Value of Test Screenings (46:34): Despite working with directors like Christopher Nolan who prefer friends-and-family screenings, Chuck explains why recruited audience testing remains invaluable.

Chuck Roven's producing philosophy combines his father's business lessons with an unwavering respect for the audience, proving that hunger, passion, and smart dealmaking can result in four decades of Hollywood success.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Charles “Chuck” Roven
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Chuck Roven:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Roven
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0746273/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes Gail Berman, one of Hollywood's most versatile executives. From producing Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat on Broadway at 22 to becoming the first woman to lead both a major TV network (Fox Entertainment) and a film studio (Paramount Pictures), she has consistently rewritten what creative leadership looks like in Hollywood.

From Brooklyn to Broadway: The Joseph Origin Story (04:03): At just 22 years old, Gail and her partner, Susan Rose, produced Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. They brought the show to Broadway, earning seven Tony nominations.

The Red Dress and the Palisades Fires (15:52): Gail's Tony Awards dress remains in storage due to insurance settlements following the recent Palisades fires that damaged her home.

Starting Over in Television (19:30): Gail shares how she received a message on her answering machine about a new venture at HBO. Despite knowing nothing about television, she took the job at the comedy channel that would become Comedy Central.

The Buffy Breakthrough at Sandollar (23:56): After reading the Buffy the Vampire Slayer film script, Gail saw it as a perfect TV show. While serving as President of Sandollar, she partnered with Sandy Gallin and Dolly Parton to develop and executive produce the show—launching a cultural phenomenon.

The Austin Butler Screen Test for Elvis (28:26): When Baz Luhrmann showed four screen tests, Austin Butler's was last. The film would earn Gail an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture.

From Regency Television to Running Fox (33:49): After producing Malcolm in the Middle, Roswell, and The Bernie Mac Show at Regency Television, Gail received a call from Peter Chernin asking her to run Fox Entertainment.

The Paramount Years (40:28): Hired to run Paramount Pictures, MTV Films, and Nickelodeon Films, Gail faced some resistance. She secured the Star Trek film rights back from CBS with just 18 months to put it into production, hiring J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindelof to work fast.

Black Swan: The Musical (50:43): After leaving Paramount, Gail launched The Jackal Group. She's now producing the musical adaptation of Black Swan with Darren Aronofsky, Kevin McCollum, and Scott Franklin.

Gail Berman's story shows how versatility and the willingness to start over can create a remarkable career. From Broadway to broadcast television to film, she's proven that embracing new challenges leads to extraordinary places.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Gail Berman
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Gail Berman:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gail_Berman
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0075762/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gail-berman-6786b538

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes acclaimed writer Matthew Specktor and his father, legendary CAA agent Fred Specktor. Matthew's latest book, The Golden Hour: A Story of Family and Power in Hollywood, captures the underbelly of Los Angeles through the lens of three generations embedded in the motion picture industry. Together, Matthew and Fred explore the industry that shaped American culture.

The College Course with James Baldwin (9:47): Matthew describes being chosen by lottery to study with James Baldwin at Mount Holyoke. Baldwin taught Henry James and told his students, "For it to have happened or for it to be beautiful is not enough."

Lew Wasserman's Assistant at 19 (18:26): Fred recalls working for Lew Wasserman at MCA, the most powerful man in the industry.

The Birth of the Modern Motion Picture Industry (22:43): Matthew explains how his family lived through the entire transformation of Hollywood, recalling Lew Wasserman seeing the line of people waiting to see Jaws in a Texas rainstorm and pioneering the wide release.

"No More Middle-Class Movies" (30:14): Matthew recounts a Fox 2000 corporate retreat where Bill Mechanic announced the studio would only make films over $100 million or under $10 million – nothing in between.

The Gene Hackman Call That Won an Oscar (34:19): Fred describes how Gene Hackman passed on Unforgiven due to violence concerns. Fred gave Clint Eastwood Gene's phone number, and Clint convinced Gene to take the role that won Gene the Academy Award.

Letting the Artist See What Others Don't (37:37): Fred's philosophy: "I believe every one of my clients belongs at the top of the list." He shares thoughts on his clients, including Morgan Freeman, Helen Mirren, Taylor Hackford, and Danny DeVito.

This conversation reveals how great writers mine their personal history to illuminate an industry, and how great agents operate, not as cartoon hustlers but as believers in fairness and quality. Matthew and Fred Specktor show us that Hollywood's golden hour wasn't just about glamour; it was about families, power, and the American dream colliding in ways both beautiful and devastating.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Matthew and Fred Specktor
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Matthew and Fred Specktor:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Specktor
The Golden Hour: A Story of Family and Power in Hollywood: https://a.co/d/8Qy91qa
Website: https://matthewspecktor.com/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com