Salt might be the most overhyped thing in your running bag. Alex Ostberg is back from Chicago, where Charles Hicks became the No. 3 American all time on a record-eligible course, for his monthly breakdown of the last four editions of The Rundown. He and Dominic start with electrolytes, a piece prompted by Riley Witt’s hot take. They cover why sweating actually raises blood sodium, the four dials that decide whether you need a sodium plan, and why slower marathoners face more hyponatremia risk than the elites. Next, they ask how much of your training actually serves your health. The biggest drop in all-cause mortality comes from the first few minutes of exercise, and Cleveland Clinic data shows that low fitness carries more risk than diabetes or high blood pressure. Then comes paranoia, starting with Seb Coe’s Christmas Day double and Steve Ovett’s legendary reply. From there they get into hubris, the undisciplined pursuit of more, and why winners should keep auditing for weaknesses. Finally, Alex reflects on coaching Klaudia Kazimierska to the top of the 1500m world and makes the case against detailed race plans. His advice is to kill the perfect-day fallacy, contain the damage when things go wrong, and run the race in front of you. Dominic closes with a curveball, asking for the worst pre-race advice a coach can give, and Alex’s answer is one every coach should hear. The Rundown just passed 5,000 subscribers, so come join the community, and thank you for spending part of your week with us. Tap into the Rundown Recap Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W  N O T E S   -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Nobody builds a distance program at Harvard. Alex Gibby did it twice over 

Alex arrived at Harvard in 2017 and inherited a program that had almost never made nationals, and didn't have a single athlete setting a PR after early February. Ten years later, the Crimson men have qualified for the NCAA Cross Country Championships six straight seasons, and Gibby has coached Graham Blanks to back-to-back NCAA cross country titles and Maia Ramsden to NCAA titles in the mile and the 1500m.

In this conversation with Dominic, Gibby gets into how it actually happened. He explains why Graham's Achilles problems traced back to his toe strength, how he treats soft tissue injuries in athletes who sit at ninety-degree angles for nine hours a day, and why he bought six treadmills after last winter. He breaks down the recruiting profile he's built at a school where he only gets eight semesters: why he watches how a recruit's parents behave in the room, why "Type A+" kids get buried at Harvard, and why family of origin shapes how an athlete communicates with a coach.

He also tells the story behind the infamous LetsRun thread—the squat racks, Graham's fake YouTube channel, and a men's team he calls world-class trolls. Plus, the disastrous first six months at William & Mary that changed his coaching for good, why distance running keeps losing the investment war inside power conferences, and the exact moments he knew Blanks and Ramsden were going to be special.

Serious about the work. Never about themselves.

Tap into the Alex Gibby Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Natasza Dudek only wanted a PR. She got history instead. 

Now a junior at Ann Arbor Pioneer and the reigning Gatorade National Girls Cross Country Player of the Year, Natasza joins Dominic midway through her 2026 season to look back on the year her name went national. She remembers watching her oldest sister Zofia’s finishing kick win the 2019 Foot Locker title on a computer screen. She also explains what she learned as the youngest of three running sisters, and how weeks of workouts in the school hallways and a “feels like one degree” Brooks photo shoot tested her Michigan toughness.

Her training is refreshingly simple. She does two workouts a week, one of them up whatever “Mount Everest” her coaches can find around Ann Arbor, and she guesses she peaks at 35 to 40 miles a week. She also goes back to the last downhill at Brooks, where Blair Bartlett caught her and she told herself to stop giving up and sprint. And she talks about racing this fall as the girl everyone is chasing.

She wraps up with advice for kids hoping to make a national meet, her loaded Chipotle bowl, and the cabbage-wrapped Polish comfort dish she wishes more Americans knew. 

It’s a joy to spend time with a champion who still runs for her team, her sisters, and the fun of it. We can’t wait to cheer her on in San Diego this December.

Tap into the Natasza Dudek Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Fleet Feet x Brooks XC Championships

FleetFeet.com

@tashi_avo2 on Instagram 

The woman who breaks four minutes in the mile has probably already been born.

That's the opening claim from Professor Andy Jones, the Exeter physiologist behind Nike's Breaking2 project, and he gives her ten to fifteen years. The problem right now, he explains, is a split field: some women have the aerobic engine and the critical speed but no anaerobic reserve, while others have the speed and no endurance. Faith Kipyegon came up short on the 800m side, and Jones believes a properly paced attempt would have landed her near 4:03—a time that would have left the stadium feeling cheated.

From there Dominic takes him back to the beginning. Jones was giving conference talks arguing that 2:02:57 badly underestimated what humans could do, Nike staff were in the audience, and a phone call to Beaverton followed. He describes choreographing the pacemaker rotations in Monza like ballet, with cats, in several languages. He makes the case that 2:00:25 was the more remarkable performance of the two attempts, and says Kelvin Kiptum would likely have been the first man under two hours in a real race. 

The second half turns personal. Jones talks about the VO2 kinetics work he's proudest of, the beetroot research that earned him a nickname, the heart condition that now caps his own easy runs, and why his new book Faster—out January 28 with a foreword from Kipchoge—argues there is no magic bullet, no best method, and nothing that beats consistency.

Tap into the Professor Andy Jones Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @andrewjones7370

After Josh Kerr's mile world record, Danny Mackey had 478 unread texts. He answered about 20 of them.

The founding head coach of the Brooks Beasts Track Club joins Dominic at the end of the best season of his career. Josh Kerr broke the mile world record in London, about an hour after Brandon Miller won the 800m. Mackey still says he hasn't really reflected on any of it. He explains why: after 217 NCAA coaching rejections, he's still the guy who worries he could lose his job.

Dominic opens with a challenge: pitch a top recruit without mentioning Josh Kerr. From there, Mackey traces the Kerr partnership from its start. He first spotted Kerr's long stride across a track in Albuquerque. Mackey also names the 2024 tempo run that first made him believe a world record was possible, and confirms the 1500m record is likely next.

The conversation also gets into how Mackey coaches from inside the work rather than above it. He describes cold plunges at 6 a.m. alongside his athletes, and what Michael Jordan, Serena Williams and Rickson Gracie could teach a team.

Dominic and Danny also cover what separates good athletes from great ones, why elite coaching talent is spread acrossevery level, Spencer Brown's influence on athlete media, and a three-year-old who wanted a popsicle in the middle of a world record night.

Mackey closes with the lesson underneath all of it: nobody gets there alone. The company along the way is everything.

Tap into the Danny Mackey Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @dannytmackey

Some coaches chase talent. Todd Witzleben builds it.

When Witzleben took over at Manhattan University in June 2025, one regional ranking had the Jaspers 41st out of 42 teams in the Northeast, with six men on the cross country roster. A year later, there are 16, and he's talking about a 7:25 time in the 4x800 relay. Dominic sits down with the former Buffalo associate head coach to talk through the rebuild: from leaving a MAC program when a promotion request got laughed off, to the alumni who still care about a 1973 NCAA indoor title and a 1974 American record in the 4x mile.

Witzleben explains his formula: "big boy volume," with lots of threshold work and hill strength, and workouts nobody brags about. He makes the case for recruiting 9:30 two-milers in a roster-limit era, pointing to Leon Atkins, who never broke two minutes in high school and placed 16th at NCAAs. 

There's plenty of personality here, too. He named one son Charlie after his La Salle coach and the other Miles for exactly the reason you'd guess. He went from finance major to Citibank telemarketer to calling recruits for a living. And ahead of this weekend's Manhattan Invitational, he gives a course walkthrough of Van Cortlandt Park, including why the railroad ties now race like a steeplechase.

For anyone who believes a program, or a runner, is never too far gone, this one's for you.

Tap into the Coach Todd Witzelben Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @coachwitzleben

Vinny Mauri got drug tested at a Planet Fitness.

Five months after his 2:05:54 marathon at Glass City made him the fastest marathon debutant in American history, the self-coached Ohioan returned to the show just days before his second marathon in Chicago.

Dominic starts hot. Vinny explains why he emailed USADA himself the day after Toledo, why he feels honored rather than offended by the doubters, and how his first official test finally happened at the treadmill he uses right in front of the lobby. Then the training gets absurd: a 4:11 net-uphill mile in the middle of a long run at Pittsburgh's North Park; Tuesdays that reach 45 miles; a 30-mile treadmill long run at just over five-minute pace;near 140 miles peak weeks . 

Vinny also explains why he chose ASICS, why he's still selling shoes at Second Sole, and why he won't put a number on Sunday. He calls Toledo his debut effort and Chicago his debut race, weighs Clayton Young's shot at the American record, and explains why two miles under nine minutes would make him back off. Mostly, he just wants to reach the start line smiling.

He closes with advice for every runner still waiting on a breakthrough: sometimes you take a step back, and sometimes that step sets up a leap. Then Dominic extracts a promise involving the Ohio state cross country meet.

Listen before Sunday's gun goes off, and find out why all of Ohio is about to rally behind its king.

Tap into the Vinny Mauri Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @vinny.mauri

Four hundred straight dual meet wins don't happen by accident. 

Sean McCafferty, entering his tenth year as head cross country coach at Christian Brothers Academy (CBA) in Lincroft, New Jersey, joins Dominic to unpack the culture behind one of the most storied programs in high school running. Sean ran at CBA before competing at Princeton, and he later took over the program from Tom Heath, who led it for 45 years. He talks openly about the years he spent trying to coach like someone else before realizing he was better as himself.

He walks through the national-record dual meet streak and the brotherhood that fills the space football would occupy at most schools. He also explains how a phone-free school fits with the super shoes and GPS watches today's freshmenarrive with. Sean talks about the 2021 season that sent him back to the drawing board, and also explains the "singles and walks" mindset he preaches from the first practice in June to the night before NXN.

The most moving part of the conversation honors Alex Kemp, the former CBA state champion and Williams standout whose name now goes on the Manhattan Invitational trophy. Sean reflects on leading his team through grief, the third-place NXN finish that his runners dedicated to Kemp, and receiving the Joe Newton Coach of the Year Award. 

The episode also covers a young Edward Cheserek dropping college runners on a Sunday run, and the Jumbo Elliott mantra Sean's father passed down: keep it simple.

Tap into the Sean McCafferty Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Ethan Strand is a national champion who still believes he finished second.

He found out Jonah Koech had been busted for doping in the middle of a treadmill run, when Parker Wolfe tapped him on the shoulder, and his first reaction was anger. In this conversation, Ethan tells Dominic why the title still feels strange, why he feels worse for Hobbs Kessler, and why he thinks a positive test should end a career. He also covers the unglamorous side of racing clean: updating his whereabouts before dinner, keeping the last pills from every supplement batch, and making an 80-minute round trip to meet a drug tester.

Then there's his rookie year. Ethan admits he froze on the line at the Millrose two-mile, chasing a win with no plan, and that social media expectations helped sink his indoor season. Mike Smith's fix was to go back to basics: smaller races, pre-race checklists, and no talk of winning. Pre was where he felt like himself again, and the Silesia win over Hocker and Ingebrigtsen followed. So did Zurich four days later, which he blames on enjoying the attention too much.

Ethan also talks about sessions with Parker and Nico Young at 7,000 feet, why he's running less mileage than he did at UNC, and why he'd beat Simeon Birnbaum seven times out of ten. And he shares what Jakob said in the Brussels call room.

His goal for Year Two is to take more risks so that his bad days end in fifth instead of eleventh.

Tap into the Ethan Strand Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @ethan_strand 

Aleksander Lingauer is stepping away from running. He says it out loud here for the first time.

This one was recorded in person in Columbus, the fourth time he and Dominic have sat down together and the first time with no race waiting on the other side of it. Near the end, Aleksander announces that he is pausing his racing indefinitely. The reason is a book—the account of his 419-day solo walk across Europe, shelved when he signed as an athlete, now being finished. It arrives next year.

Before that, the fullest account he has given of the Last Soul Ultra: crewing Mark Dowdle through the closing hours, and the truth about Loop 87. Whose idea it was. What it was built to do. And what did not happen out there, whatever people decided they saw on the stream.

The rest is the conversation two friends have when nobody is watching the clock. They ruminate on what actually separates the people who win backyards from everyone who doesn't. Why you will not start in January, no matter what you tell yourself in September. What a Catholic Mass in Ohio did to him. And what he means when he says he is a mosaic of mistakes.

It keeps returning to one idea: you think nobody sees what you do in private, and you are wrong, because you are watching.

Two and a half hours. No agenda. Worth every minute.

Tap into the Aleksander Piotr Lingauer Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W N O T E S

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-

THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next

Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @aleksanderlingauer

Marcelo Mantecon has spent his whole career as the young guy. Not anymore.

The Belen Jesuit senior joins Dominic for the next episode of our Fleet Feet series leading into the Brooks Cross Country National Championships, and he arrives carrying something he didn't have last December: a target. He talks about welcoming the pressure that comes with being the top returner, about what he absorbed watching Jackson Spencer stay calm on start lines while his own nerves churned, and about learning to convert that nervousness into excitement instead of dread.

The training picture is stranger and simpler than you'd expect from the nation's most-watched high schooler. He doesn't wear a watch most days. He can't tell you his exact mileage, and he runs Miami's brutal humidity. He credits sleep above everything else for keeping himself intact, and he credits Frankie Ruiz, the coach he has known since birth, for a program built on consistency rather than heroics. 

Marcelo also revisits Balboa Park in detail: the gap that opened at the bottom of the hill, getting caught, and praying for one more surge with 300 meters left. His plan for the rematch is almost defiant: Have fun. Stay aggressive. Race like he still has nothing to lose.

Along the way, the two discuss Flagstaff team trips and flooded shoes in the Everglades, his sister's rise, UNC and a future in finance, why the class of 2027 might be one of the deepest ever, and a post-race celebration involving roughly a hundred donuts.

Tap into the Marcelo Mantecon Special. 

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZ

LuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop

$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Instagram: @marcelo.mantecon