Deesha and Dawnie talk with Destiny O. Birdsong, author of the poetry collection Negotiations and the novel Nobody’s Magic. Last year, Birdsong published a short story, “The Jump,” only to have it pulled from publication less than a day later over disagreements with the editors. The story eventually found a new home at Roxane Gay’s newsletter, The Audacity.

Birdsong talks about navigating censorship and what happens when writers and editors don’t see eye to eye, and they highlight the necessity of respect and support from editors and keeping the integrity of your work when finding a home for it. Birdsong also talks about the intersections of religion and queerness, the representation of queer sex and sex work in literature, and how she follows instinct when approaching her work.

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Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Negotiations: Poems (Destiny O. Birdsong)
• Nobody’s Magic (Destiny O. Birdsong)
• “The Jump” (Destiny O. Birdsong, The Audacity 2024)
• Rick Hillis
• Roxane Gay
• Toi Derricotte
• “The Woman Shaping a Generation of Black Thought” (J Wortham,The New York Times, 2023)

Watch List:

• Cross
• 48 Hours
• Insecure

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

About the Author

Destiny O. Birdsong is the author of the poetry collection Negotiations (Tin House Books, 2020) and the triptych novel Nobody’s Magic (Grand Central, 2022), which was longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize, was a finalist for the Ernest J. Gaines Award for Literary Excellence, and won the 2022 Willie Morris Award for Southern Fiction. She has served as a Writer-in-Residence for the Hurston/Wright Foundation and the University of Tennessee and is a contributing editor of Poets & Writers magazine. She is currently at work on a second novel and a collection of short stories.

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An Ursa Member Bonus! In a new recurring feature we call First Chapters, Dawnie and Deesha dig into the memorable opening chapter of Dawnie’s debut novel, The Final Revival of Opal & Nev. Dawnie talks about her journey to becoming a writer, as well as the process of this story coming to fruition.

To listen to the full episode, become an Ursa Member in Apple Podcasts or at ursastory.com/join. 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton) 
• Moonrise Over New Jessup (Jamila Minnicks)
• James Baldwin
• Daisy Jones & The Six (Taylor Jenkins Reid)

Listening List:

• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev: Audiobook (Dawnie Walton)
• Grace Jones
• David Bowie

Watch List:

• Almost Famous (2000)
• Summer of Soul (2021)
• Wattstax (1973)

More from Deesha:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

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Deesha and Dawnie introduce an Ursa original production of “Snow Bath Season,” a short story written by Stacie Denetsosie, and performed by Nasheen Sleuth. This story is about Diana, a young Navajo woman whose late mother is communicating with her via an Amazon Alexa device. 

Denetsosie juxtaposes modern technology with Navajo tradition in compelling ways, while also writing into grief, love, and mother-daughter relationships through humor and bizarre circumstances. “Snow Bath Season” is from Denetsosie’s debut collection, The Missing Morningstar, published by Torrey House Press. Stay tuned after the story to hear from Stacie Denetsosie herself.

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Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• The Missing Morningstar: And Other Stories (Stacie Shannon Denetsosie, Torrey House Press, 2023)
• Crooked Hallelujah (Kelli Jo Ford)
• “I Give You Back” (Joy Harjo)
• Woman of Light (Kali Fajardo-Anstine)
• Julia Alvarez

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

“Snow Bath Season” written by Stacie Denetsosie 

Performed by Nasheen Sleuth

Interview by Marina Leigh 

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producers: Marina Leigh & Ashawnta Jackson

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Special thanks to Cleyvis Natera

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Deesha and Dawnie sit down with their own agents, Danielle Chiotti and PJ Mark, to chat about the publishing industry. What does it mean to be a white agent representing authors of color? What are the gold standards for blurbing? Where are the best places to find an agent and what are some common red flags with scammy “agents”? They discuss the significance of the agent-author connection, the questions that an author should ask of a potential agent, as well as what makes an agent say “hell yes” to a pitched book. 

To hear the full episode, become an Ursa Member in Apple Podcasts or at ursastory.com/join. 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Brian Broome
• Nicole D. Collier
• Tyriek White
• Joseph Earl Thomas
• Eileen Myles
• In West Mills (De’Shawn Charles Winslow)
• Decent People (De’Shawn Charles Winslow)
• Co-Parenting 101 (Deesha Philyaw and Michael D. Thomas)
• The Ones Who Don’t Say They Love You (Maurice Carlos Ruffin)

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

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Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://ursastory.com/join

Deesha and Dawnie chat with Rion Amilcar Scott, sharing stories, craft advice, 90’s hip-hop references, and how experience as parents, as teachers, and as lovers of music can inform the writing process. 

They discuss their reactions to elements of their work playing out in real life, and call for not forgetting the joys and humor of the Black experience that coincides with the tragedies. Rion talks about his generative and drafting process—his beginnings and endings, the structure and limitations of flash and short fiction, the revision process, and his playfulness and improvisation as an approach to the work. 

Support our show by becoming an Ursa Member: ursastory.com/join

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• The World Doesn’t Require You (Rion Amilcar Scott)
• Insurrections (Rion Amilcar Scott)
• August Wilson
• “The N****r Knockers” (Rion Amilcar Scott, Tyrant Books, 2017)
• “Percy And The Fire Plums” (Rion Amilcar Scott, McSweeney’s 64: The Audio Issue)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• The Sellout (Paul Beatty)
• Percival Everett
• Mark Twain
• Heads of the Colored People (Nafissa Thompson-Spires)
• Walking on Cowrie Shells (Nana Nkweti)
• “David Sherman, The Last Son of God” (Rion Amilcar Scott, Midnight Breakfast, Issue 8)
• Eugenia Tsutsumi
• Rising of a Legend (Review by Jessica Sequeira, berfrois, 2016)
• “Special Topics in Loneliness Studies” (Story from The World Doesn’t Require You by Rion Amilcar Scott)
• “A Loudness of Screechers” (Rion Amilcar Scott, Barrelhouse)
• Edward P. Jones
• Ernest Hemingway
• “Klan” (Story from Insurrections by Rion Amilcar Scott)
• Poets and Writers
• To Sir, With Love (E.R. Braithwaite)
• Between The World And Me (Ta-Nehisi Coates)
• Night of the Living Rez (Morgan Talty)
• Go Ahead in the Rain: Notes to A Tribe Called Quest (Hanif Abdurraqib)
• Mitchell S. Jackson
• The Invisible Man (H.G. Wells)
• The Women of Brewster Place (Gloria Naylor)
• Winesburg, Ohio (Sherwood Anderson)
• Miguel Street (V.S. Naipaul)
• Drinking Coffee Elsewhere (ZZ Packer)
• Before You Suffocate Your Own Fool Self (Danielle Evans)
• Sula (Toni Morrison)

Listening List:

• “Foe Life” (Mack 10)
• Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik (Outkast)
• “One More Chance” (The Notorious B.I.G.)
• “Triumph” (Wu-Tang Clan ft. Cappadonna; special shoutout to Inspectah Deck’s opening verse)
• “The End” (The Doors)
• “Riders on the Storm” (The Doors)
• “Winter Warz” (Wu-Tang Clan; special shoutout to Cappadonna’s verse)
• A Tribe Called Quest
• “Straight Outta Compton” (N.W.A.)
• Rakim
• GZA
• Chuck D
• Andre 3000
• “Name Callin’ Pt. 1” (Queen Latifah)
• “Talk to Me” (Foxy Brown)
• E-40
• Kendrick Lamar
• Books Are Pop Culture (Reggie Bailey and Akili Nzuri)

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Author Bio:

Rion Amilcar Scott is the author of the story collections The World Doesn’t Require You and Insurrections, which was awarded the 2017 PEN/Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction and the 2017 Hillsdale Award from the Fellowship of Southern Writers. He teaches creative writing at the University of Maryland, College Park. His work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Kenyon Review, and Best American Science Fiction and Fantasy 2020, among other publications.

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In this special Member Exclusive episode, Deesha and Dawnie kick off a recurring feature we call Iconic Stories — starting with James Baldwin’s ‘Sonny’s Blues,’ first published in 1957 in the Partisan Review.  They discuss the prevalent themes of family and brotherhood, loss, drug addiction, and music, as well as the broader social and political contexts of Baldwin’s fiction and nonfiction. 

Deesha Philyaw: “James Baldwin is the writer that made me want to be a writer.”

To get access to the full episode, become an Ursa Member: ursastory.com/join

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• “Sonny’s Blues” (James Baldwin)
• Going To Meet The Man (James Baldwin)
• Daddy Was A Number Runner (Louise Meriwether)
• Go Tell It On The Mountain (James Baldwin)
• If Beale Street Could Talk (James Baldwin)
• Between The World And Me (Ta-Nehisi Coates)
• The Fire Next Time (James Baldwin)
• “Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?” (Joyce Carol Oates)
• Toni Morrison
• His Name Is George Floyd (Robert Samuels and Toluse Olorunnipa

Listening List:

• Charlie Parker

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Deesha Philyaw, Dawnie Walton, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

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Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://ursastory.com/join

Deesha and Dawnie introduce an Ursa original audio production of “Telling Stories” by T.E. Wilderson, published in The Account magazine in 2021, and narrated by Jordan Cobb. 

Eighth grader, P’Mona, is sarcastic, witty, and a pathological liar. Taking place over the course of a day, the story follows P’Mona attempting to simultaneously navigate the world and cope with a difficult home life. 

Be sure to stick around at the end of the story to hear from T.E. Wilderson in her own words, discussing the themes of the story, her advice to writers, and her inspirations for “Telling Stories” and the character of P’Mona.

Support Our Show with a contribution: ursastory.com/join

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• “Telling Stories” (The Account magazine)
• T.E. Wilderson Publications

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Story performed by Jordan Cobb

Author interview by Marina Leigh

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producers: Marina Leigh & Ashawnta Jackson 

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

About the Author

T. E. Wilderson is a New Orleans-born, African American writer, editor, and teaching artist currently living in the Midwest. Her short stories have appeared in F(r)iction, Notre Dame Review, Roanoke Review, Crack the Spine Anthology XVII, The Louisville Review, The Tishman Review, Still: The Journal, Cobalt Weekly, The Account: A Journal of Prose, Poetry, and Thought, and Coolest American Stories 2023, among others. She holds an MFA in creative writing from Spalding University and is a 2019 McKnight Foundation Writing Fellow.

About the Narrator

Jordan Cobb is a New York City-based writer and actress, with a focus on live stage and voiceover. Her work spans fiction podcasts such as Bloody Disgusting's Dead Space: Deep Cover and No Such Thing Production's Primordial Deep, to bestselling audiobooks like Kalynn Bayron's This Poison Heart and Tigest Girma's Immortal Dark. For more information, visit jordanvcobb.com.

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In the spirit of Halloween, Deesha and Dawnie dig into thrillers, mysteries, and suspense with acclaimed crime fiction writer S.A. Cosby, author of the New York Times bestseller Razorblade Tears and Blacktop Wasteland, and the forthcoming novel, King of Ashes. 

Cosby talks about his early inspirations in the horror and suspense genres, and he explains how he began to use genre to craft stories that reflected his own experiences as a Black writer from the South.

Cosby also offers advice to emerging writers and helps demystify the publication process, as co-editor of The Best American Mystery and Suspense 2024 anthology.  

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Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Razorblade Tears (S.A. Cosby)
• Blacktop Wasteland (S.A. Cosby)
• The Best American Mystery and Suspense 2024 (co-edited by S.A. Cosby and Steph Cha)
• Heaven (First Book in Casteel Series) (V.C. Andrews)
• Gabino Iglesias
• Catriona Ward
• Bunnicula (James and Deborah Howe)
• The Celery Stalks At Midnight (James and Deborah Howe)
• Goosebumps (series) (R.L. Stine)
• “The Tell-Tale Heart” (Edgar Allan Poe)
• The Hardy Boys (series) (Franklin W. Dixon)
• The Three Investigators (series) (Robert Arthur Jr. and Mary Virginia Carey)
• “The Black Cat” (Edgar Allan Poe, Poe Stories, originally published 1845)
• “The Cask of Amontillado” (Edgar Allan Poe)
• Encyclopedia Brown (series) (Donald J. Sobol)
• Carrie (Stephen King)
• “The Animal Fair” (Robert Bloch)
• Clark Ashton Smith
• Algernon Blackwood
• ‘Salem’s Lot (Stephen King)
• A Thousand Acres (Jane Smiley)
• “King Lear” (William Shakespeare)
• Before The Mango Ripens (Afabwaje Kurian)
• The Human Stain (Philip Roth)
• Red Dragon (Thomas Harris)
• Thuglit
• Steph Cha
• “The Funeral Suit” (Bobby Mathews, Frontier Tales, 2023)
• “My Savage Year” (Jordan Harper, Southwest Review, Volume 108 Number 3)
• “Like Babies Crying in the Dark” (S.A. Cosby, Southwest Review, Volume 108 Number 3)
• “Welcome to the Hammer Party” (Jordan Harper Newsletter)
• “Scorpions” (Nick Kolakowski)
• “Just A Girl” (Alyssa Cole)
• “Slant-Six” (S.A. Cosby)
• Megan Abbott
• It (Stephen King)
• The Dead Zone (Stephen King)
• All The Sinners Bleed (S.A. Cosby)
• Kellye Garrett
• Toni Morrison 
• Robert Jones Jr.
• Jack London
• Dennis Lehane
• Ernest J. Gaines
• Alice Walker
• King of Ashes (S.A. Cosby)
• The Godfather (Mario Puzo)
• W. Somerset Maugham
• Nikki Dolson
• Watchmen (Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons)
• The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Alan Moore and Kevin O’Neill)
• James Baldwin
• Chester Himes
• Phillis Wheatley
• Donald Goines
• Richard Wright
• Claude McKay
• Langston Hughes

Listening List:

• Born To Run (Bruce Springsteen)

Watch List:

• 3:10 to Yuma (2007)
• American Masters: John Hammond: From Bessie Smith to Bruce Springsteen 1991 
• S.A. Cosby on The Daily Show (2023)
• White Lightning (1973)
• Rolling Thunder (1977)
• True Detective

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

About the Author 

S. A. Cosby is an Anthony Award-winning writer from Southeastern Virginia. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller Razorblade Tears and Blacktop Wasteland, which won the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, was a New York Times Notable Book, and was named a best book of the year by NPR, The Guardian, and Library Journal, among others. When not writing, he is an avid hiker and chess player.

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We're back! Dawnie Walton and Deesha Philyaw give us a special sneak preview of what's in store for Season Three.

Show notes:

• Support this season with a membership or one-time contribution, and get access to bonus episodes: ursastory.com/join
• Follow our other show, Reckon True Stories with Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon.
• Read more about Dawnie Walton's next novel!
• Contact us via email: [email protected]

Produced by: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

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Dawnie Walton and Deesha Philyaw introduce us to Reckon True Stories, a brand new podcast hosted by Deesha and acclaimed author Kiese Laymon, dedicated to all things nonfiction.

Listen, then follow the show in your favorite podcast so you don't miss an episode: https://link.chtbl.com/truestories

Guests for Season One include writers Roxane Gay, Imani Perry, Alexander Chee, Minda Honey, Hanif Abdurraqib, and Samantha Irby. Produced in partnership with Reckon.

We'll also have more episodes of Ursa Short Fiction coming this fall! Sign up for email updates: https://ursastory.com

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While we put the final touches on Season Three, we wanted to share an episode from another podcast that we think you’ll love: Black & Published, hosted by Nikesha Elise Williams. 

On today’s episode, Nikesha’s guest is Dolen Perkins-Valdez, author of the historical fiction novel TAKE MY HAND. It's a story based on the real-life Relf sisters of Montgomery, Alabama, who were forcibly sterilized by the workers of a federal family planning clinic in 1973.

Subscribe to listen to more episodes from the latest season of Black & Published: 

https://blackpublished.buzzsprout.com/

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