Three years ago, Jennifer Moss came on Better at Work and gave us a line that stuck: we can't yoga our way out of a bad boss.

She's back. New book. Sharper take.

Jennifer is a burnout researcher and workplace culture strategist whose new book Why Are We Here? Creating a Work Culture Everybody Wants is her third on this space and one of the most useful Cathal has read this year.

In this conversation:

→ Why hope is collapsing at work, especially for under-25s (the World Happiness Report numbers are bleak)

→ Charles Snyder's hope theory and why agency is the piece most leaders miss

→ Why a compliant team isn't a loyal team, it's a team where hope is dying

→ The real cost of layoffs to the people who stay

→ Phobos and the 1 in 2 stat on AI anxiety from Microsoft's Work Trend Index

→ Why most micromanagers are frightened, not malicious

→ The 5-step compassionate leadership framework for AI transitions

→ Why "I'm an ally" framing has made diversity work fragile, and the reframe that fixes it

→ Optimal distinctiveness: fitting in and standing out at the same time

→ Three things leaders can do this week

Jennifer references Adam Grant, Lindsay McIntyre (formerly of Microsoft), Amy Gallo, Claudia Goldin, Robin Dunbar, and case studies from companies including Patagonia and Bright Horizons.

Find Jennifer at jennifer-moss.com and on LinkedIn.

Better at Work is hosted by Cathal Quinlan. New episodes every Thursday 7am.

If this one resonated, share it with someone on your team who needs it.

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What if the colleague who drives you up the wall is the one your organisation can't afford to lose?

Cathal and Annette are back for a listener-questions special, picking up where last week's conversation with David [surname TBC], former Head of Design at Tesla, left off. The idea that stuck: every team has Mad Hatters and White Rabbits. The Mad Hatters bring the wild, disruptive, sometimes maddening ideas. The White Rabbits keep things running on time. Most organisations over-index on one and quietly punish the other, which is exactly how you lose the creative edge that made you competitive in the first place.

Cathal shares why the framework hit home, why psychological safety matters more than surface-level politeness, and why "I don't agree with you" should be a welcome sentence in any good team. He also references his recent LinkedIn post on the thing nobody tells you when you become a manager for the first time: there's no handbook. You're going to get it wrong sometimes. That's fine, as long as you keep showing up and keep supporting the ideas.

Then the listener question. Michelle wrote in from retail. She's covering two to three people's roles on her normal shifts and being called in on her days off. She's drained. She can't say no. She's breaking. Annette and Cathal unpack it honestly and the reframe is the gold: the days-off problem isn't the real problem. The root cause is the workload. And there's a way to raise it with her manager that doesn't torch the relationship, with a Plan B ready if it doesn't land.

Expect the glass-of-water stress analogy, a useful reframe on supporting failure at work, and a reminder that the people who held the retail and service economy together through Covid deserve better than being treated as infinitely elastic.

In this episode:

• Why Mad Hatters and White Rabbits need each other
• The LinkedIn post Cathal wrote about becoming a manager
• Why feeling threatened by a different viewpoint is a trap
• The glass of water and what stress does when you hold it too long
• How Michelle can raise the workload conversation, with a Plan B ready

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome back

01:35 Recap: David on curiosity at Tesla

05:38 The Mad Hatter and the White Rabbit

11:06 Why entrepreneurial thinkers need air cover

12:15 No handbook for being a manager

14:05 Why supporting failure is a leadership skill

15:03 Listener question: Michelle is running on empty

19:08 The glass of water test

20:14 How to reframe the conversation upwards

25:20 Respect for frontline workers

26:15 Next week: Jennifer Moss returns

Mentioned in this episode:

• Last week's interview with David Imai, former Head of Design at Tesla (Apple, Spotify, YouTube)
• Cathal's recent LinkedIn post on becoming a manager
• Next week: Jennifer Moss, author of Why Are We Here? Creating a Work Culture Everyone Wants

Got a career dilemma of your own?

Send it in. We'll take it on anonymously, just like Michelle's. Details at betteratwork.net

Subscribe to The Better Bits newsletter for the best insights from every episode, delivered straight to your inbox.

New episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify and YouTube. Hit follow so you don't miss Jennifer Moss.

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For 14 years, David Imai was a Design Director at Tesla, helping shape every car the company put on the road. Before that, GM and Opel. Today he advises the startups building the future of transport and robotics, and he's obsessed with one question: why do the best ideas keep dying inside big organisations?

His answer will surprise you.

Every team has two types of people. The Mad Hatter, who throws out wild, half-formed, maybe-genius ideas. And the White Rabbit, who gets things done on time. Most workplaces only protect one of them, and it's almost always the wrong one. That's why your best thinking never makes it out of the meeting room.

In this episode, David sits down with Cathal (his old London housemate, small world) to unpack the three things every curious culture needs. Why psychological safety isn't optional. Why Tesla sends its robotics engineers to Disney Imagineering. And the one habit that separates teams that innovate from teams that talk about innovating.

If you've ever walked out of work wondering why nobody listens to your best ideas, press play. This is the episode.

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In this week's listener questions episode, Cathal and Annette revisit three powerful ideas from their conversation with Marcus Collins.

First, Emile Durkheim's sociological definition of culture, and why Marcus uses it: culture isn't something we create as individuals, it creates us as social beings. Second, Marcus's definition of brands as "vessels of meaning," identifiable signifiers that conjure thoughts and feelings in the hearts and minds of people. And third, his surprisingly direct advice: if you don't believe in the brand you work for, leave.

Cathal also shares what he picked up from a recent TV media training session (including why you should never say "hello everybody"), and Annette updates on her Camino preparation with seven weeks to go.

Then they turn to something Cathal encountered across multiple conversations in Ireland over Easter: a sharp rise in abuse directed at retail, pharmacy, and healthcare workers. Signs in shops asking customers not to abuse staff. Young workers blindsided by aggression they never expected. Nurses flagging the link between understaffing and escalating hostility. They want to hear from you if you're experiencing this, especially if you work outside the typical corporate environment.

Finally, Better at Work is approaching the end of this series and planning the next season. If you've got a guest suggestion or a topic you'd love covered (someone already pitched workplace design), send it through to betteratwork.net.

Next week: David Eime joins to talk about how to create curiosity in the workplace. And Cathal has an unusual connection to him that he's keeping under wraps until then.

Key topics: culture as a system, brands as vessels of meaning, brand alignment, retail worker abuse, psychosocial hazards, customer service training, workplace design

New episodes every Thursday.

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Why Culture Is the Most Powerful Force at Work (And How to Actually Change It) | Marcus Collins

What if the biggest thing shaping your experience at work isn't your manager, your workload, or your pay, but something most organisations can't even define?

In this episode, Cathal sits down with Marcus Collins, marketing professor at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business, faculty director for the school's executive education partnership with Google, and faculty member at Harvard Extension School. Marcus has led digital strategy for Beyonce, worked on Nike and iTunes initiatives at Apple, and was recently awarded the Thinkers 50 Radar Distinguished Achievement Award.

His book For the Culture: The Power Behind the World's Most Successful Brands has been endorsed by Daniel Pink, Adam Grant, Amy Edmondson, and Katy Milkman. But don't let the word "marketing" fool you. This is a people book, and the conversation goes deep into what actually drives behaviour in any organisation.

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Your team might be too big to do its best work.

In this week's Q&A, Cathal and Annette unpack their takeaways from Colin Fisher's research on what makes great teams. The number that stuck: 4.5 people. That's the ideal team size for real collaboration.

They dig into why most leadership meetings are too big to actually solve anything, the goal-setting mistake Colin calls "meet me in California tomorrow," and how the rise of individualism is quietly reshaping how we work in teams.

Annette connects Colin's findings to Google's Project Aristotle research, making the case that psychological safety matters more than ever in an era where "I" is replacing "we."

Plus, a listener shares an update on her career transition: from corporate burnout to building a portfolio that combines consulting with her real passion, acting.

Key topics: ideal team size, goal specificity, individualism vs collectivism, psychological safety, portfolio careers, career transitions.

Guest book recommendations from listeners:→ Working Identity by Herminia Ibarra→ Barking Up the Wrong Tree by Eric Barker

Got a career question? Head to betteratwork.net and send us a note.

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Colin Fisher went from touring the world as a jazz trumpet player to becoming one of the leading researchers on group dynamics at UCL. His new book, The Collective Edge, reveals why the structure around your team matters more than the talent inside it.

In this episode, Colin shares the surprising research behind why orchestra musicians are less satisfied than prison guards, introduces the "California Tomorrow" problem for goal-setting, and explains why 93% of leadership teams can't even agree on how many people are on the team.

We also cover: the optimal team size (it's 4.6), how to "relaunch" teams that are stuck, why competition between teammates is playing with fire, and why the best coaches ask questions instead of diagnosing.

Key topics: group dynamics, psychological safety, team composition, goal clarity, conformity vs. creativity, competition, team coaching, relaunches.

Book: The Collective Edge by Colin Fisher (available now)Connect with Colin: colinamfisher.com | @ColinMFisher on LinkedIn, Instagram, X, BlueSky

Subscribe for new episodes every Thursday at 7am.

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She left her job for a direct competitor. Six months in, she wants out.

This week's Q&A tackles a listener career dilemma that most of us have lived through — that sinking feeling when your new job isn't what you expected.

Amy's dealing with a culture mismatch, missing processes, and tanking motivation. Cathal and Annette share practical, honest advice drawing from their own career transitions.

Plus, Annette shares her three key takeaways from last week's conversation with Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez on project-driven organisations.

What we cover:→ Why the shock of changing organisations is bigger than we admit→ Finding one friend at work (and why it matters)→ The manager conversation most people never have→ How to protect your personal brand while job hunting→ Annette's sea view analogy — knowing what you need→ Antonio's balanced portfolio approach to projects

Mentioned: "Powered by Projects" by Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez

Next week: Colin Fisher — The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups

Send your career dilemma: betteratwork.net

Connect: @betteratworkpod on Instagram

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Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez got fired for trying to bring project management to a top consulting firm.

Today, he's the most published expert on project management in Harvard Business Review and a Thinkers 50 global authority.

His new book "Powered by Projects" makes a bold claim: Every organization is project-driven, but the leaders don't know it.

IN THIS EPISODE:

The Origin Story:

- Almost went professional with Real Madrid (broke his knee)

- Got fired for pitching project management ("too tactical")

- The moment that sparked his mission

Getting HBR to Listen:

- Chased Harvard Business Review for 5 years

- The pitch: "Everyone's a project manager but nobody knows it"

- Became their most published PM expert

COVID Changed Everything:

- 3 days to do what used to take 3 months

- Laser-sharp focus on priorities

- Then we lost all that knowledge

The Project-Driven Organization:

- Shift from operations to transformation

- AI taking over operations; people work on projects

- "Back to normal" doesn't exist

Three Dimensions Framework:

1. Organization (culture, structure, governance)

2. Leadership (prioritization, HR, performance)

3. Value Creation (operations, execution)

Key Examples:

- Haier: Stop projects if no value in 3 months

- Fixed to exponential mindset

- Lean governance (match intensity to risk)

Best Advice:

- Do the hardest thing first every day

- Care about people (Marshall Goldsmith)

- Speak up constructively to leaders

KEY QUOTES:

"Your projects are your future. If you do them wrong, you put your future at risk."

"During COVID we did in 3 days what took 3 months. Then we went back to thousands of projects going nowhere."

"There's no back to normal. Change will happen."

About Antonio:

- Author: "Powered by Projects" & "HBR Project Management Handbook"

- Thinkers 50 ranking (2023, 2025)

- 25 years corporate (PwC, BNP Paribas, GSK)

- Website: antonionietorodriguez.com

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.

New episodes every Thursday (+ special Sunday episodes!)

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan & Annette Sloan

betteratwork.net

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Q&A episode answering a tough leadership question from Emer, plus Annette's takeaways from Laura Gassner-Otting.

IN THIS EPISODE:

Thank You Email Goes Viral:

Cathal's email praising his daughter's teacher went around the whole school. Miss Smith said "You'd be surprised how little that happens." Why recognition matters more than we think.

Annette's Laura Takeaways:

- The Four Horsemen of Success (money, title, power, prestige) and why we chase them

- The Forces (Calling, Connection, Contribution, Control)

- "Refuse not to be happy now"

- Balance = being yourself everywhere

- Do Laura's quiz

Listener Question: New Leader, Difficult Team Member

Emer started a new leadership role. Most of her team is on board. But one woman has "taken a total dislike" to her. The woman ignores everything Emer says.

Annette's advice:

1. Work as team to agree on values/behaviors (clear is kind)

2. Get to know this person - seek to understand

3. Might be anxiety, trauma, nothing to do with you

4. Build connection and safety

Cathal's advice:

1. Start with YOU - is this about YOUR need for validation?

2. Imposter syndrome from previous org?

3. Ask open questions: "How are you finding it?" "Any concerns?"

4. Discuss ways of working

5. Reality check: She might just be difficult/jealous/wanted the job

6. If intractable after doing the work, she might need to go

Key Insights:

"You'd be surprised how little that happens." - Teacher receiving thank you

"Refuse not to be happy now. Balance is being yourself in work and life." - Annette

"Let's be real. She might be a piece of work. But we try to be fair." - Cathal

Resources:

Laura Gassner-Otting's quiz

Submit your career dilemma: betteratwork.net

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.

New episodes every Thursday.

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan & Annette Sloan

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Laura Gassner-Otting (Wall Street Journal bestselling author) joins Cathal in the London studio to challenge everything we think we know about success.

This is Laura's UK/Ireland podcast debut, recorded at Christmas after a mulled wine with incredible energy.

IN THIS EPISODE:

The Four Horsemen of Success (and why they drive Laura batty):

1. "I'll be happy when..." - Life is short. Refuse to not be happy NOW.

2. Purpose - Your job doesn't need a white hat to have purpose.

3. Follow your passion - The "live, laugh, love" tattoo of career advice.

4. Balance - We need alignment, not balance. Code-switching is exhausting.

Need to Make vs Want to Make Numbers:

We all have two numbers. Need to make: bills, food, school. Want to make: Claridge's vs Holiday Inn, Rolls Royce vs Hyundai. In between are the sacrifices you'll make.

Caroline's Story:

Laura wanted to promote her to VP. Caroline said no thank you. She'd just had a baby and wanted to be present. Three years later, she got promoted. Still with the firm 10 years after Laura sold it.

Eleanor Roosevelt: "We would worry much less about what other people thought about us if we realised how seldom they did."

Whose Goal Is This?

We define success at 17-18 before our frontal lobe is fully formed. Laura dropped out of law school - it was her fourth grade teacher's goal, not hers. Give yourself grace to change.

Work-Life Alignment > Balance:

You're friends with coworkers on social media. It's already integrated. Stop separating work and life. Find alignment instead. Code-switching is exhausting.

Feeling Seen vs Feeling Loved:

Laura's therapy revelation: She felt loved transactionally (got grades = we love you). But did she feel seen? Could she have said "I don't want law school, I want to be an artist"?

Key Insights:

"I refuse to not be happy NOW. They retire and have heart attacks."

"Follow your passion is the live, laugh, love tattoo of career advice."

"I think we're not too busy. We're too busy doing things that don't matter to us."

"When you find alignment, you just move from one to the other pretty seamlessly."

ABOUT LAURA GASSNER-OTTING:

Author of "Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve Your Own Path" and "Wonderhell: Why Success Doesn't Feel Like It Should."

20 years as executive recruiter, sold her firm, now speaker/consultant. Regularly on Good Morning America.

Website: lauragassnerotting.com

Submit your career dilemma: betteratwork.net

Better at Work - Making work better, one conversation at a time.

New episodes every Thursday.

Hosted by Cathal Quinlan

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.