In 2020, the Hartmans grow even more isolated as Covid hits: Sophie pulls C out of school citing worsening health and breaks with the church community who’ve been supporting her and her daughters. 

Concerns for abuse grow as Sophie begins to push a new narrative that C has central precocious puberty (CPP), a condition that causes the body to go through puberty prematurely, After making an initial DCF report in 2019 and tracking Sophie’s demands for increasingly invasive procedures: Seattle Children’s Child Abuse Team files an official report to the Department of Children, Youth, and Families. Her daughters are subsequently placed in protective custody and Sophie is charged with assault of a child in the second degree. 

We hear from the Seattle reporter who broke the story, Olivia LaVoice and dig into the extensive documentation from the  investigation with Detective Michael Lee, a major crimes detective in Texas and co-founder of the National Crimes Against Children Investigators Association.. Andrea also talks with Dr. Mary Zupanc, a pediatric neurologist and epilepsy specialist with over 30 years of clinical and research experience with AHC. She gives listeners a better understanding of AHC by describing the history of the disorder, the various symptoms, common environmental triggers, and how clinical diagnoses of AHC are made.

***

Links and Resources:

More about Dr. Mary Zupanc: https://www.childneurologysociety.org/awards/mary-l-zupanc-md/

Check out Olivia LaVoice’s podcast, The Bakersfield Three: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-the-bakersfield-three-128074552/

Chad Goller-Sojourner’s Sitting in Circles with Rich White Girls: Memoir of a Bulimic Black Boy will be adding show dates in spring 2025. Click HERE for more information. 

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Catch Andrea and Mike at their Seattle Book Launch Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/andrea-dunlop-and-mike-weber-the-mother-next-door-tickets-1097661478029

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

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Introducing Cory Booker On Winning the Messaging War Against Trump with Radical Empathy from Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams.

Follow the show: Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

President Donald Trump’s first 100 days are well underway, implementing ruthless and legally questionable executive orders, eviscerating American political norms, and filling government positions with loyalists. This week, Stacey Abrams speaks to Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, who speaks unabashedly about why Democrats must strive to reach more Americans, how he approaches working across the aisle on issues that matter, and what we can do to fight back and fight for all Americans. Together, Stacey and Sen. Booker give concrete suggestions on how to support elected officials and organizations doing the work that matters, how to speak up about Trump’s Cabinet nominations, and how even small steps like amplifying  democrats through social media can help expose more people to critical information. They also answer a listener’s question about how to communicate effectively with your elected representative!

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

We want to hear your questions. Send us an email at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 213-293-9509. You and your question might be featured on the show.

Learn & Do More:

• The most effective letters from constituents to their elected officials are creative, heartfelt, and detailed. Don't underestimate your power -- organizing with like-minded individuals around a shared message does make an impact.
• Do a social media audit: who are you following? Are there elected officials you admire who you can add to the list? What are you sharing and posting? Could it be more positive, engaging, and helpful?
• Send $1 today to an organization working on an issue you care about.

DISCLAIMER: Please note, this is an independent podcast episode not affiliated with, endorsed by, or produced in conjunction with the host podcast feed or any of its media entities. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the creators and guests. For any concerns, please reach out to [email protected].

From corporate sponsorships to fundraisers large and small, Sophie Hartman was an expert at raising money for C’s various medical devices, mobility aids, and specialized treatments.

But were any of these things actually needed? 

We hear audio from the police interviews of Sophie’s next door neighbors and a school aide who note that they rarely saw C in her wheelchair. 

We also take a closer look at C’s diagnoses with friend-of -the-show (our not-so-secret Florida doctor) Dr. Bex, joins us briefly to explain the process that pediatricians go through to provide a clinical diagnosis to their patients. 

We take a closer look at the narrative Sophie weaves on Instagram, documenting her daughter C’s medical journey on both her personal account and where she posts relentlessly about C’s health and includes pictures of her G-Tube and Cecostomy Tube. We listen to reports from both Sophie’s mother and father stating that C had no trouble eating by mouth, and we’re joined by Dr. Jill Glick, a Child Abuse Pediatrician from the University of Chicago, who explains why a child who can eat normally but still has a G-Tube, as requested by a parent, is incredibly troubling.

***

Links and Resources:

More about Dr. Jill Glick: https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/find-a-physician/physician/jill-c-glick

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Catch Andrea and Mike at their Seattle Book Launch Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/andrea-dunlop-and-mike-weber-the-mother-next-door-tickets-1097661478029

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From cult leaders to con artists and undercover FBI agents, PRETEND exposes those pretending to be someone they're not.

***

LaDonna Humphrey, a respected true crime author and podcaster, has built a strong reputation through her detailed investigations. However, beneath her acclaimed public image lies a troubling undercurrent of allegations and dark secrets. As former associates, friends, and family come forward with disturbing claims. These people have never spoken out... until now.

The question arises: Who's really afraid of LaDonna Humphrey?

***

Listen to PRETEND on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vaCjR7UvlN9aTIzW6kNCo

Listen to PRETEND on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretend/id1245307962

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Immediately after moving with C and M from Zambia to Seattle, WA, Sophie starts bringing C to various doctors, reporting severe health issues. Just three days after C’s third birthday, she is diagnosed with Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood (AHC), a rare, one-in-a-million neurological disorder. 

Simultaneously, Sophie enrolls her older daughter, M, in an elite gymnastics program. We speak to some of the moms who knew Sophie from the gym to get a better picture of Sophie and the two girls. They reveal a picture of a woman who, despite seeming to move from one crisis to the next, is somehow caring for a medically fragile child, nurturing an aspiring Olympian and financing all of this without a job or a partner. 

***

Links and Resources:

Chad Goller-Sojourner’s Sitting in Circles with Rich White Girls: Memoir of a Bulimic Black Boy will be adding show dates in spring 2025. Click HERE for more information. 

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Catch Andrea and Mike at their Seattle Book Launch Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/andrea-dunlop-and-mike-weber-the-mother-next-door-tickets-1097661478029

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the second episode of season 5, Andrea dives into how Sophie’s Evangelical Christian beliefs colored her worldview. From claiming that adopting a child from Zambia was God’s path for her life to allegedly performing an exorcism, Sophie’s faith is an integral part of this case. We hear from Dr. Lauren Turek, an Associate Professor of History at Trinity University in San Antonio, TX and author of To Bring the Good News to All Nations: Evangelical Influence on Human Rights and U.S. Foreign Relations, gives us a context about Evangelical Christianity in the US and abroad and helps us understand Sophie’s religious upbringing and worldview. Andrea is then joined by some of the Nobody Should Believe Me team: Senior Producer Myrriah Gossett and Lead Researcher/Producer Erin Ajayi to attempt to fill in the many blanks left by Sophie’s memoir about her time in Zambia. The three of them lay out a timeline leading up to Sophie’s adoptions of M and C, while at the same time examining the series of omissions and half-truths riddling Sophie’s story.

***

Links and Resources:

Learn more about Dr. Lauren Turek: https://laurenturek.com/

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Catch Andrea and Mike at their Seattle Book Launch Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/andrea-dunlop-and-mike-weber-the-mother-next-door-tickets-1097661478029

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We begin the season by delving into Sophie Hartman’s 2016 memoir about her time in Zambia, Crowns of Beauty, where we learn about how a young woman from Michigan came to be the adopted mother of two Zambian girls by the age of 25. We learn about Sophie’s deep roots in evangelical Christianity and her state of mind prior to and during the adoptions of M and C; examining the way she portrays herself as both a martyr and savior. We’re also joined by Chad Goller-Sojourner, a performance artist and transracial adoption coach, to help listeners understand the complexities of transracial adoptions. 

***

Links and Resources:

Chad Goller-Sojourner’s Sitting in Circles with Rich White Girls: Memoir of a Bulimic Black Boy will be adding show dates in spring 2025. Click HERE for more information. 

More information on Chad’s background with transracial adoption: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q76t_IpbJil2vWQVsNnw7f8Ms8p_lstK/view

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Catch Andrea and Mike at their Seattle Book Launch Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/andrea-dunlop-and-mike-weber-the-mother-next-door-tickets-1097661478029

Learn more about our featured non-profit and mutual aid organizations: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/nsbm-supports/

Check out You Probably Think This Story's About You: https://brittaniard.com/podcast

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this last bonus episode before our season 5 premiere next week, we’re airing Andrea’s conversation with Dr. Catherine Ayoub, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School, APSAC member, nurse practitioner, and counseling and consulting psychologist. Cathy tells listeners about her background and first encounter with Munchausen by Proxy. She and Andrea chat about the different groupings of perpetrators and the characteristics/background that may signal that an abuser can be rehabilitated. Cathy dives into family dynamics, and her current study on the long-term effects of this abuse.

***

Links and Resources:

More about Dr. Cathy Ayoub: https://www.childrenshospital.org/directory/catherine-ayoub

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Season five of Nobody Should Believe Me tells the story of Sophie Hartman: a young, white midwestern evangelical missionary who travels to Zambia and comes home with two vulnerable sisters in her care. When she returns to the states, she lands far away from her family in Seattle, WA where she embarks on a medical odyssey with her younger daughter, C, reporting a variety of alarming symptoms: from chronic vomiting, to seizures, to days-long episodes of full-body paralysis.  Eventually, C is diagnosed with a rare neurological disorder called Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood. Sophie weaves a tale of a child who could “leave us anytime” and uses the child’s illness to fundraise tens of thousands of dollars for special equipment and medical expenses, takes C on a Make-A-Wish trip, posts constantly about her family’s plight on her prolific social media accounts, and even writes a memoir about the story of her journey to adopt her. But is Sophie really the heroic mother of a sick child, or is she the ultimate unreliable narrator?

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final part of our miniseries covering the Jesika Jones case, Andrea is once again joined by Detective Mike Weber, who shares the series of events from Jesika’s first bond violation through to her 60 year sentencing, from his perspective as law enforcement. He shares the differences in how seriously child abuse cases are taken when there’s a male vs female perpetrator, and the politics behind trying Medical Child Abuse cases in court. Andrea and Mike wrap up their conversation by talking about the systemic changes that need to happen, not only to protect kids from this abuse, but also to help families after the damage has been done.

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the 3rd installment of our 4-part series on the Jesika Jones case. In this episode, Andrea is wrapping up her conversation with Derek Jones. Derek recaps the fallout after Jesika’s lies finally start to unravel: the frustrating journey of working with the DA on the case, Jesika’s sentencing, and how his kids are doing today. Stay tuned for the final episode next week, where Andrea is once again joined by Detective Mike Weber.

***

Links/Resources: 

Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy

Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop

Buy Andrea's books here.

To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.

For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices