The Way Out Is In
Plum Village
This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion.
- 1 hour 51 minutesIn the Footsteps of the Buddha (3/6) | The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings (Episode #104)
If you want to support our podcast please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The third in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Rajgir, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are again joined by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the foundational initial teachings of the Buddha: the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, Non-Self, and the Fire Sermon.
Together, they also share personal experiences of encountering the Buddha’s teachings, practicing Thich Nhat Hanh’s wisdom in daily life, highlighting the transformative power of mindfulness, community, the realization of non-self, and more.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit www.buddhapath.com, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2-6-enlightenment-under-the-bodhi-tree-episode-103The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-1-6-the-buddha-down-to-earth-episode-102
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongRajgir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RajgirBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeSujata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid)Magadha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagadhaPoem: ‘Please Call Me By My True Names’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/poem-please-call-me-by-my-true-namesDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsVinaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinayaDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathDuhkha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5khaDignaga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dign%C4%81gaThe Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anattalakkha%E1%B9%87a_Sutta
The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Kosala Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosala_kingdomKashyapa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KashyapaKalachakra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KalachakraJoan Halifax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_HalifaxQuotes
“Suffering is all around us. Hell is in the here and now. We have to collectively have the determination, as the Buddha did, not to deprive ourselves from food, from nutriment, but to understand the sources of our suffering – as well as the sources of the path of liberation.”
“The teaching of the Four Noble Truths is the understanding of suffering. We all have suffering. This is the shared experience of us all. We are all equal because we all suffer. In spite of status, class – whatever labels humanity may have for one another – suffering is a truth that none of us can ignore or can escape.”
“We only have so much time on this planet. But there’s so much we can direct our attention towards. What are the seeds we are watering every day? The diligence of watering our consciousness and the seeds that become the action.”
“We have to see the Buddha a little bit like a doctor. We have to see suffering as a disease, a universal disease. You might think it’s very obvious that we all suffer, that we all get angry, that we are all separated from the ones we love, that we have sickness and old age. But it wasn’t a universal idea. Some people said, ‘This life is bliss.’ So when we start with the primacy of suffering, that in itself is a revolutionary moment.”
“As somebody who really is imbued with the Buddha’s teachings, I feel that all human beings experience suffering. And that in itself is revolutionary, saying, ‘This is where it starts.’ Because a lot of it is about escaping from the present, escaping from this world. Most teachings are around something which will come hereafter – but the Buddha is saying, ‘Come back to now; feel, understand your mind, see that your mind is creating your reality.’”
“Thich Nhat Hanh always emphasized that people talk about Buddhism being about suffering. But he said, ‘No, it’s the third noble truth. It is about the releasing of suffering and the transforming of suffering into joy and happiness. That’s very important; don’t get stuck in the suffering. That’s why the first noble truth is a noble truth, because you use the suffering as a compost for happiness.”
“Siddhartha touched the reality that life and death are just a game of hide and seek. They are just labels.”
“Acceptance, and being with all the conditions in the present moment, is a superpower. You cannot escape the present moments – except by being in your suffering and your wishful thinking. But once you arrive in the here and now, and you embrace these realities, you are free.”
“This is because that is. This is not because that is not.”
“‘Thay, what happens when I die?’ Thay said, ‘I haven’t died yet, I don’t know. But what I can tell you is what happens when we are very much alive.’ Let’s come back to that present moment, to that insight.”
“Thay spoke so eloquently of the second teaching, the Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta; the sutra on non-self. Under the tree, the Buddha looked at the Bodhi leaf and said, ‘Ah, in that leaf is the sunshine, the earth, the rain, the seed, everything. And if you take one of those elements out of that leaf, the leaf won’t exist as we know it now.’ And that was his deep realization.”
“One Buddha is not enough.”
“The Buddha is the sangha.”
“I’d been a political activist looking for a way of being peace, not fighting for peace. I had a lot of anger in me and I really felt I touched peace for the first time in that walking meditation – as a visceral experience, not as an idea, not as the concept of wanting peace, but as something that I could embody.”
16 April 2026, 10:00 pm - 1 hour 43 minutesIn the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)
If you want to support our podcast please visit this link. Thank you!
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The second in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Bodh Gaya, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined again by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the journey of the Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, before he reached enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree in Bodh Gaya. It covers Siddhartha’s early life, the various ascetic practices he tried, his finding of the middle way between extreme asceticism and hedonism and going through various stages of meditation and insight, to becoming the awakened one, and his first teaching.
Together, the three participants further reflect on the relevance of the Buddha’s journey to their own spiritual practices; the challenges of maintaining mindfulness and presence in the modern world; the importance of the sangha in the Buddhist tradition; and how the Buddha’s teachings emphasize the interconnectedness of all things.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit www.buddhapath.com, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recording by Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editing by Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publishing by Anca Rusu
Produced by Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsKaundinya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaundinyaSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeBodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_GayaSujata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid)Mahavira
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahaviraKumbh Mela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_MelaMaulana Azad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_AzadDalit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DalitDharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsDharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-pathQuotes
“We think we’re practicing for ourselves only, but there are invisible connections that we may not see. So your own practice, your own transformation, your decision-making can shift a whole lineage that precedes you. Without even doing much. It’s just some decisions; it’s almost like the turning of the dharma wheel, something in our whole lineage. And it’s true for a lot of my Western monastics; they might be the first in their whole ancestral lineage to be on the path of love and understanding. So you’re not doing this for yourself only, you’re doing this for your whole lineage.”
“Everyone on this pilgrimage, in this room right now, sitting, I invite you to plant that seed to see that this journey is not yours alone. There’s a deep interbeing and it’s a weaving of past, present, and future.”
“I got involved in activist politics, organizing big demonstrations, going to jail, organizing in a big way. But then I burnt out and found that I was very angry. And that anger was actually infusing my action, and I realized I was also part of the problem. So I had to find a way of being peace, not just fighting for peace.”
“In the Indic civilizational system, at least in some traditions, and especially in the Brahmanical system – I don’t call it Hinduism – we have four stages of life. The first is what we call brahmacharya: the celibate life, when you’re a student. The second stage is the grahasthi, where you become a family person and have children and build up the family. And the third is vanaprastha: sort of a forest dwelling, but more like social work; your children are getting married and you get involved more in society, like a philanthropist. And the fourth stage is sannyas, where you actually leave the family, break your ties, and become, in effect, dead to the family and take the path of a monastic. So the Buddha is saying, ‘You don’t need to wait till you’re an older person. Start now. Don’t waste your life. The path of awakening can be walked when you’re young, too.’”
“Having children is courageous; you’re taking on responsibility for future generations, and that’s not easy. I feel that’s why we need a sangha of parents, friends. They say it takes a village, but it takes the global humanity, eight billion people, to create a civilizational shift. And that’s what we’re trying to do, to make the world a better place.”
“Courage is a moment-to-moment act. It’s not just a moment; it’s each day we get up and say, ‘Okay, it’s a blessing we have this life for these 24 hours. Can I, in some way, make it better? Can I not make it worse? Can I enhance the life of people around me and keep being mindful?’ The word ‘Buddha’ just means to be awake. So how can we really be awake? We can be awake by being mindful: being attentive, breathing in, breathing out. That’s a moment of awakening, to be present. The Buddha became a full-time Buddha, but we can do it moment-to-moment, as little, part-time Buddhas. I think all of us can touch it – and that requires courage, too, to be diligent in our practice; it’s very easy to get distracted so we need to watch our mental state of irritation, anger, jealousy, whatever comes up. I have eyes to see – wow, that’s a miracle. That’s, again, a type of awakening. So I think this path is the path of courage.”
“You can share the same bed with someone, but if you don’t share an aspiration, it can cause immense suffering.”
“The problem with the middle path is that it’s not a single line. It is an appropriate response to a particular situation. The middle part requires attentiveness, mindfulness, moment-to-moment. You might think drinking water is an appropriate action, but if you’ve had a stomach operation, drinking water might kill you. So something simple like that has to be appropriately done; the middle way is appropriate to time and place.”
“We can’t start off on the middle path. We have to understand our suffering deeply in order to know the middle path, to know the two extremes in order to find that path.”
“That’s why retreats are so important: we step away from the world to realize what our deepest aspiration is. And then we can go back with a new set of eyes.”
2 April 2026, 10:00 pm - 1 hour 44 minutesIn the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The first of a series of six episodes recorded during the pilgrimage ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha’, this instalment was made in Varanasi, India, in February 2026.
In this opening episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss the importance of understanding the Buddha as a fully human being; a boat journey on the sacred Ganges river at sunrise, from which it was possible to witness cremation and devotion; teachings on death and impermanence as daily practice; the importance of living in the present moment; and much more.
The speakers also share personal experiences and reflections on their spiritual journeys, the role played by the community, and the continuation of the Buddha’s teachings through their own lives and practice.
About the pilgrimage:In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice—one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit www.buddhapath.com, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Recording by Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editing by Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publishing by Anca Rusu
Produced by Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin ZorziniList of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘Ancient Path for Modern Times: Active Nonviolence (Episode #70)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/ancient-path-for-modern-times-active-nonviolence-episode-70Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsSarnath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SarnathDharadun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehradun_districtBodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_GayaRajgir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RajgirOld Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-cloudsFederico Fellini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_FelliniGhat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GhatAlara Kalama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80%E1%B8%B7%C4%81ra_K%C4%81l%C4%81ma
Jack Kornfield
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_KornfieldUpanishads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpanishadsSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_treeMoksha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MokshaRishi Joan Halifax
https://www.joanhalifax.org/Daily Contemplations on Impermanence & Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/daily-contemplations-on-impermanence-interbeing#the-five-remembrancesSutras: ‘Discourse on Knowing the Better Way to Live Alone’
https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-knowing-the-better-way-to-live-aloneSutras
https://plumvillage.org/genre/sutrasLeila Seth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_SethOn Balance
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1754796.On_Balance_an_AutobiographyQuotes
“Every step is a miracle. Every breath is an offering.”
“The transformation is both individual and collective – and not just right now; it is something which seeps into our understanding and informs our life. The real journey begins when you get home. When you see your familiar surroundings with these pilgrimage lenses, those are very, very important moments. When you see your familiar surroundings slightly differently, and you see what brings you suffering, what brings you joy, what brings a sense of ease, then you can tweak your life.”
“Siddhartha always says, ‘I’m on this path not for power, not for leadership, but to find liberation within us.’ And that means we have to be ready to let go of all of the ideology that we have received from our ancestors, not from just us, but from the lineage of our whole ancestors and society.”
“We can be free amidst the suffering. We can still find our calm, our peace with every storm that arises, that manifests. We find a way to understand it, to embrace it even, because we see that that storm is a part of us.”
“In the Mahaparinirvāṇa Sutta, the Buddha said, ‘Go to the places where I was born, died, where the first teachings were given, where I awakened.’ But I think he’s saying, ‘Leave your familiar surroundings and explore, and you’ll find different seeds in your consciousness being touched, which are not touched when you go every day to work or in your familiar surroundings.’ And that is the learning of yourself. It’s an interior journey on this exterior part.”
“In India, your path to God is through your guru – but in the Buddha Dharma, the guru shows you the path, and you walk it. In the classic example of the Buddha pointing to the moon, he says, ‘Don’t get caught looking at my finger; look at the moon.’”
“Somebody once asked Thay, ‘What happens when we die?’ He said, ‘I don’t know, but I can tell you what happens when we’re alive.’”
“The only ingredient that you have any control about for the future is the present. We can only act in the present. As you know, the past is gone, the future is an idea – but all these situations that arise in our lives, how do we respond appropriately? With ethics, with a sense of calm, with a sense of love, how can we respond appropriately to each situation? Because that is the ingredient for the future.”
“The Buddha is saying, ‘Stay open, stay alive. This is the most precious moment. This is a gift. And when we die, we’ll have no control over it.’”
“In Indian philosophy, we don’t have only yes or no. We say, yes, no, neither yes or no, both yes and no. So it’s the idea that I am the same person, I’m a different person, I’m neither the same or a different person, and both the same person and the different person. That’s the Buddha Dharma’s understanding of continuity, birth and death, and in that we don’t get caught.”
“Awakening is a collective awakening.”
“The Buddha was teaching us how to be a human being, how to take both the joy and the happiness of being a human being, but also to understand the suffering of a human being, and then take suffering as a noble truth. But it’s a noble truth only because we can transform it – otherwise it’s just plain old suffering. Use suffering as the compost for liberation. Looking at the cause, knowing the path to overcome suffering. And that’s key in Buddha. Otherwise, death is suffering, loss is suffering. The Buddha is saying, ‘Take that and look at it deeply, transform it, and live your life today as if it’s your last moment, your first moment, your present moment, our present moment.’”
“Secular in India means different from secular in the West. Secular in India means respecting all religions. It doesn’t mean non-religious. I was brought up in a household like that, where we had Hindu icons, Christian icons, Islamic icons, everything. And we would go to midnight mass or go to a mosque or go to a temple, but we were not religious. It was just respecting people like that. And we had friends from every religion.”
19 March 2026, 11:00 pm - 1 hour 31 minutesCalm in the Storm Q&R, Part Two (Episode #101)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This special episode – the last of two question-and-response (Q&R) installments – marks the publication of the second book by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino. Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World is intended to help readers meet the current polycrisis with love and stability, but also forcefulness and resilience.
According to Plum Village tradition, Jo and Brother Phap Huu recorded two episodes responding to questions by listeners which connect to the book’s themes. In this second part they answer questions on dealing with anxious thoughts, raising children in uncertain times, reacting to the anger of those around us, managing fears and hypochondria, and much more.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/The Way Out Is In: ‘Calm in the Storm Q&R, Part One (Episode #97)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/calm-in-the-storm-qr-part-one-episode-97Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainingsUrsula K. Le Guin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_GuinThe Sun My Heart
https://www.parallax.org/product/the-sun-my-heart/Quotes
“If Buddhism is not engaged, it’s not Buddhism.”
“We have to study the meaning of calm, because when we say ‘calm’ or ‘sitting meditation’, that may look like non-action. But what we have seen in some of the most impactful work is that, when people take the time to be still, to listen, and to embrace and hold feelings and emotions and these projects in a calm manner, they are able to direct, lead, and not be carried away with the force field of anxiety, of fear, of restlessness.”
“Mindfulness is only true mindfulness if it’s generating love and compassion.”
“We can say so many things about Buddhist history and Buddhist philosophy, but what the Buddha transmitted to us and really wanted was for us to ask the question, ‘How can I put these practices into daily life?’”
“When everything is changing, the most important thing is to also know what needs to remain the same.”
“Our mindfulness should not be a blockage to other people’s engagement with us – but, at the same time, we do have to have boundaries. We do have to have clarity.”
“Mindfulness is to lead an ethical life. If you’re practicing mindfulness and you’re continuing to cause harm to the earth, to living beings, to yourself and your loved ones, maybe that is wrong mindfulness. As Thay said, ‘Is the burglar mindful?’”
5 March 2026, 11:00 pm - 2 hours 8 minutesOne Hundred Years of Thich Nhat Hanh (Episode #100)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to celebrate the legacy of Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay)’s teachings, and how they have impacted both them and the broader community.
This milestone instalment of the podcast – the 100th episode! – coincides with the centenary of Thich Nhat Hanh’s birth. As well as discussing the purpose of the podcast series, the contributors reflect upon Thay’s compassion, and commitment to relieving suffering – and the monastic tradition’s importance to the preservation and transmission of these teachings.
The discussion also takes in topics such as the evolution of Plum Village; the development of an online monastery, to make Plum Village’s teachings more accessible; and the need for ethical values and mindful living in the face of global crises, and Plum Village’s aim to be a community of resistance, embodying a way of life that is in harmony with the Earth and with each other. All this and: how has the podcast transformed the lives of its hosts?
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Course: Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planetInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionLinji
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linji_schoolSister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiemBodhicitta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta‘The Five Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings
‘The 14 Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings
Dharma Talk: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truthsZen and the Art of Saving the Planet
https://www.parallax.org/product/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planet/How To: ‘Begin Anew’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/begin-anewLiving Gems
https://plumvillage.org/gems/Stephen Batchelor
https://stephenbatchelor.org/Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Quotes
“What you [the hosts] give voice and humanity and friendship to is what a spiritual life being lived feels like, sounds like, looks like. You’re both wonderfully descriptive in how you talk about both your own spiritual lives, and seeking, and your own experiences – and those of the people around us, here, in the community.”
“Thay’s bodhicitta really sets him apart from many other leading spiritual figures, perhaps in that he was relentless in his creativity and his determination to relieve suffering and to find universal paths out of it. And something else that set him apart was that he didn’t offer the Buddha Dharma for Buddha Dharma’s sake: he wasn’t interested in the success of Buddhism per se; he wanted humanity to be a better species and he wanted human actions to not bring so much suffering to humans and to the planet.”
“Thay transcended even Zen and Buddhism. He was an extraordinary human who wanted to share and develop practices and ways of being in the world, through mindfulness, through the Five Mindfulness Trainings and the 14 Mindfulness Trainings: concrete ways that we can cultivate ourselves to be better humans – an unusual legacy for a Zen master.”
“Thay wanted every moment of his presence to manifest right action in the world. He wasn’t interested in small talk.”
“A monastic only retires when he transforms and lets go.”
“This is it. Stop searching, stop running.”
“A lotus will be a lotus. And a rose will be a rose. And a magnolia will be a magnolia. But if we try to be everything, then we’re going to be nothing. And then we don’t know how to nurture the lotus, because the lotus is very particular; it needs mud. A rose is very particular, too; it needs a different setting.”
“This is not an era of change, it’s a change of era.”
“The primary direction that Thay gave us was to be a community of simplicity, of peace, of awareness, and of embracing suffering. Be that community. Which, by the way, is a really tall order.”
“One of our first missions as monastics is to embody a way of living that is happy, harmonious, and different. And then to hold that light for future generations, outside of the rat race. A lot of monastic communities throughout history have emerged from this kind of intention: to not follow the path of getting a job, getting a mortgage, becoming householders, getting a pension, and being part of the machine. We step outside of that in order to cultivate different qualities.”
“The algorithms, the screens, the politics, the lobbies, the economics are all taking us towards the worst of human nature. So we have to be able to say, ‘Well, we’re going to stand for the better parts of human nature.’ And that’s going to be important: for us to lift up in the world, and to know that we have had ancestors, over the millennia, who were interested in cultivating non-violence, compassion, tolerance, inclusiveness, generosity, well-being, health. And we have to take our society in that direction and not give up on it. Because otherwise it becomes a dog-eat-dog world where we’re all scrambling over each other in a race to the bottom of the brainstem. So, one of our roles in Plum Village is to help people not give up on the ethical values that are needed now more than ever.”
“When people leave Plum Village, they don’t leave with nothing. They leave with the world. They leave for the path. And we’re there to support that through the sanghas, through all our online offerings. And here is a community that’s navigating this, evolving this, updating it, exploring it. The world passes through Plum Village, and, from that, we grow so much.”
“We’re a light in the world. So wherever there’s darkness, light is there. We just have to search for it, or stop, pause, and know that that light is there.”
19 February 2026, 11:00 pm - 1 hour 34 minutesWalking the Path (Episode #99)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss what it means to walk a spiritual path.
The conversation provides a deep and personal insight into the life of a long-term Buddhist practitioner, as Brother Phap Huu reflects on his 25 years as a monk, including the joys and challenges of living in a spiritual community; the role of a teacher on the path; the importance of finding one’s own inner teacher; the practice of celibacy; the transformations that can happen through spiritual practice; the lessons learned from 17 years as Thich Nhat Hanh’s attendant; and much more.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Course: Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planetInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionFragrant Palm Leaves
https://plumvillage.org/books/1998-neo-ve-cua-y-fragrant-palm-leavesDharma Talk: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths
Taming the Tiger Within
https://www.parallax.org/product/taming-the-tiger-within/Sister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiemSister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongBrother Phap Ung
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ungQuotes
“A good teacher is to show that each and every one of us has a teacher inside of us.”
“It’s enough of a journey to transform ourselves before we choose to transform other people.”
“You’re already the person you want to be.”
“A lot of us are defined by our past, and we let that become our whole narrative. But I think that Thay stepped into transforming his past and seeing himself in the present moment and not being caught in a prison of ‘what was’.”
“Thay was very optimistic – not an ignorant optimism, but optimistic with the insight that there is awakening everywhere. We just have to tap into the right conditions, into the right path, so that those seeds can blossom into trees and into a garden.”
“Every human being that comes into the spiritual path is different. We all have different stories, experiences, histories, upbringing. So we can’t bundle everyone into the same boat. But each and every one of us have to see and accept each other’s differences, suffering, and limits, and be patient with each other.”
“When we talk about becoming a monk, we talk about stepping into freedom. And that freedom is the choice that we have made to not chase after, in our language, worldly successes. Those successes come with different layers of desires and hooks that would trap us. And the aspiration is ideal, but on the path itself, we all have to encounter our own demons within us.”
“Be beautiful, be yourself.”
“There’s a saying, particularly for monastics, that, when you wear the robe of a monk, your home is everywhere. Because our home is the present moment. The present moment is our daily destination, so that is where we will never feel lost. But that is insight and that is practice.”
“If we are a teacher who thinks we have all the answers, I don’t think we will really connect with everyone. We won’t connect with the ever-changing present moment, the ever-changing generations.”
“When we see that our whole career will become a spiritual career, the deepest aspiration is to be free from all desires. And sex is a desire. Physical contact is a desire. Emotional connections could become a deep attachment, which is a desire. And, in our practice, why do we want to be free from that? Because only when we are free from it can we be of service to the world. Our deepest aspiration is to be of service to the world, whatever world we encounter in our lifetime. But if I have a family, if I have a partner, that becomes my world and that becomes my holy life, my holy family, my community – and, of course, my son or my daughter or my children will become the focus of my devotion. But monastics want to meet the world, at any moment, without being tied down and bound to these relationships.”
“Sometimes, the mind is not the answer, and the heart is stronger. And we have to lean into the heart and be stubborn with the mind.”
5 February 2026, 11:00 pm - 1 hour 35 minutesInner Space (Episode #98)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss the importance of creating inner space and stillness through meditation practices. But what does it actually mean to create more space in our lives? And why is this important, and how do we go about it?
The conversation emphasises that the practice of meditation is not just about achieving enlightenment, but about becoming more present, compassionate, and engaged with the world. It touches upon the difficulties of finding space in modern life, the benefits of different meditation techniques, and misconceptions around enlightenment.
The hosts also share personal experiences, including insights about how meditation has deepened their practice and allowed them to navigate challenges with greater flexibility and understanding.
The episode ends with a meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Pilgrimage: In the Footsteps of the Buddha
https://plumvillage.org/event/pilgrimage/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Course: Zen and The Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planetInterbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition‘Resources for Practicing the 16 Exercises of Mindful Breathing’
https://plumvillage.app/resources-for-practicing-the-16-exercises-of-mindful-breathing/‘Making the App More Inclusive: Introducing the ‘Access to Practice’ Folder’
https://plumvillage.app/introducing-the-access-to-practice-folder/
Robert Thurman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_ThurmanMahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahayanaBodhisattvas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BodhisattvaThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18Sister Chan Lang Nghiem
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiemQuotes
“Walking meditation was our teacher’s favorite practice and it was really a life-changing cultivation for him. Because, particularly when we are very emotional – whether that be grief, agony, pain, anger, frustration – it is probably better to be in a state of motion.”
“The Buddha has said, What are we mindful of? We are mindful of our suffering. Why do we practice? To liberate ourselves and all beings from suffering. That is the greatest vow of a monk or a nun: to find liberation in oneself and liberation in all.”
“There are so many creations of senses – what we see, what we hear, what we smell, what we taste – to help us cope with our suffering. And when we are suffering, whether that suffering is very petite, a daily concern, or is a generational trauma, we don’t have language for how to be with that suffering. Therefore, we look for a way out – and the world loves giving us a prescription of, ‘If you do this, you will feel that.’”
“Sometimes silence is a chance for us to be in touch with deep suffering or deep experiences that our noise has covered up. As a meditator, space gives us the barrier and boundaries to listen and to hold. If we don’t create that space, we will be on autopilot for the rest of our life. Our mind is on autopilot; it has a way of thinking, a way of doing, a way of perceiving, of creating perceptions, creating judgment. So when we meditate and have the opportunity to listen to and then to guide the mind, it gives the mind a chance to not also be carried away by its own habits – which is thinking.”
“Thinking is not a bad thing. Like our teacher has always transmitted to us, thinking is a part of creating a view in life, a project, a mission, an intention. But most of our thinking is not productive. It is actually more daydreaming, it is more procrastination. It is more like a zombie, in a way, or a sleepwalker. It has no destination; it’s just on autopilot.”
“Many people feel they have to sit on a cushion, they have to have a shrine, they have to light incense, they have to light a candle – which of course can be very beautiful and give a good atmosphere for meditation. But you can also do it on a busy bus or train, or as you’re sitting on a park bench. It’s not about taking things out of your life; it’s about allowing life to be.”
“Sometimes we sit just to enjoy sitting and doing nothing, because maybe that’s the one gift that we want to give to ourselves – because we’re always doing, we’re always in fifth gear. Sometimes we need a radical act: to sit and do nothing, to give and create and redefine space for ourselves.”
“How can we keep mindfulness alive if we are not cultivating it? Sitting meditation is one of the concrete cultivation practices.”
“There is right mindfulness and wrong mindfulness. We could be a wonderful burglar with full concentration – but we would be creating suffering. So right mindfulness relieves suffering; it is about understanding suffering and heading towards the path of understanding and love.”
“One time our teacher told us that sometimes insight doesn’t come during sitting meditation, but when it’s ripe. Maybe when we’re most relaxed: when we’re not thinking about it, but are living the moment very deeply. And Thay told us that, a lot of the time, it would come while he was gardening or doing walking meditation. But sitting meditation is the cultivation; it is like a gardener tending the seeds of insights to help us have a moment of, ‘Ah, I get it.’”
“The practice is maybe just continuing to unlearn things, in order to learn again.”
“There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.”
“Sitting is already action. When we sit in this way and have new insight, that will become the thread of so many actions coming forward. So don’t underestimate the power of sitting still; yes, we have apps and guided meditations, but also build the capacity of generating your own guide. And that breath is there, that body is there. Then the community is there – and that’s the beauty of a tradition.”
“Whenever we speak about enlightenment, enlightenment of what? What do we want to be enlightened from or towards? Then, later on – like in my own growth – I see that enlightenment is a verb; it is a continuous enlighten-ing. You cannot be enlightened today, December the 9th, and expect that enlightenment to stay the same in 2028. Because things are changing; we are changing. The world is changing.”
22 January 2026, 11:00 pm - 1 hour 36 minutesCalm in the Storm Q&R, Part One (Episode #97)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This special episode – part one of two question-and-response (Q&R) installments – commemorates the publication of the second book by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino, which was published earlier this year. Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World is intended to help readers meet the current polycrisis with stability and resilience, but also forcefulness and love.
According to Plum Village tradition, Jo and Brother Phap Huu recorded two episodes that respond to listeners’ questions which connect to the book’s themes – from balancing kindness and anger in challenging times to staying compassionate with a world where there’s little deep listening; how to best support young people; caring for oneself while serving others; and much more.
Enjoy!
List of resources
Pilgrimage: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha’
https://plumvillage.org/event/pilgrimage/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingThe Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeingPlum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_TraditionThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89Sister Chan Dieu Nghiem (Sister Jina) https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-dieu-nghiem
Dharma Talks: ‘The Five Skandhas of Grasping and Non-Self’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-skandhas-of-grasping-and-non-self%E2%80%8B-dharma-talk-by-br-phap-lai-2018-06-08The Way Out Is In: ‘Joanna Macy’s Message of Hope’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/joanna-macys-message-of-hope
The Way Out Is In: ‘Active Hope: The Wisdom of Joanna Macy (Episode #25)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/active-hope-the-wisdom-of-joanna-macy-episode-25The Way Out Is In: ‘Grief and Joy on a Planet in Crisis: Joanna Macy on the Best Time to Be Alive (Episode #12)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/grief-and-joy-on-a-planet-in-crisis-joanna-macy-on-the-best-time-to-be-alive-episode-12‘Three Resources Explaining the Plum Village Tradition of Lazy Days’
https://plumvillage.app/three-resources-explaining-the-plum-village-tradition-of-lazy-days/Śāriputra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C4%81riputraRāhula
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81hulaHow To: ‘Begin Anew’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/begin-anewQuotes
“Do we control the world? We’re controlling our actions, if we’re mindful. But most of us let our actions control us. We let worry control us; we let the news control us; we let fake news control us; we let stories control us. We let energies that may be untrue control us.”
“We have to have the ability to generate joy and to be in touch with simple happiness and, even in moments of bitterness and difficulty, to come back to the present moment and ask the question, ‘What am I grateful for? What things surrounding me can I devote myself to, because I’m grateful for them?’”
“Thay always reminded us to take joy and happiness seriously, and, in our modern times, people who come to Buddhism and spirituality, in particular, become allergic to the words ‘happiness’ and ‘love’ and ‘smiles’ because they’re not celebrated enough in the world. Because it looks too hippie-dippie. They seem too easy, in a way. But knowing that joy is always accessible is enlightenment, is healing, is love.”
“Each and every one of us, when we start the journey of practice, really have to take seriously how to generate joy every day, with no exceptions. Don’t take it for granted.”
“Compassion is the foundation for not burning out, for not becoming hateful, for not becoming toxic. It is the foundation of understanding and love.”
“When you don’t have enough joy, lean into other people’s joy. You’re not alone.”
“The whole purpose of mindfulness is to more deeply understand ourselves, and then to more deeply understand how we relate to the world.”
“When you know how to listen, you’re already a teacher in the dharma – not through your spoken words, but through your way of just being. So don’t underestimate the practice of deep listening, because that can open the doors to people’s hearts as well as allowing them to touch healing. Because deep listening allows us to be vulnerable; it allows us to cry the tears that need to be shed to water our fields of pain and our seeds of love, understanding, and kindness. That is all deep listening; meditation is deep listening.”
“Wherever there is darkness, light is already there, because the two coexists – and wherever there is light, there is darkness.”
“Accept despair and let it deeply touch and tenderize your heart. Because that’s what despair can do. Rather than seeing it as “the end of a journey, see it as something we touch deeply and which can begin a new journey.”
“There’s something about taking the longer view and recognizing the great arc of time and not becoming so caught up in this moment, as though it’s the only moment. Recognize that life will continue in many forms, and trust in that.”
“We have to use both wings of meditation – stopping and looking deeply – in every crisis that we find ourselves in or find ourselves facing.”
25 December 2025, 11:00 pm - 1 hour 25 minutesSelf-Forgiveness (Episode #96)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino explore the lifelong journey of self-forgiveness and how to forgive ourselves. How do we find the capacity to let go of past hurts and come into the fullness of our lives?
The conversation also touches upon themes like self-love, self-compassion, community, spiritual growth, impermanence, the coexistence of suffering and happiness, and the importance of ongoing practice.
Brother Phap Huu discusses the Buddhist perspective of the Dharma threading through time, embracing past, present, and future; how loving oneself begins with recognizing and accepting one’s stories and scars; the importance of treating oneself with kindness and compassion; acknowledging unskillful actions; practicing with the inner child; and much more.
In addition, personal stories shared by the presenters illustrate how forgiveness and self-love evolve over time, and that forgiving oneself is vital for genuine compassion and service.
The episode concludes with aspirations for the new year.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Pilgrimage: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha’
https://plumvillage.org/event/pilgrimage/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingThe Way Out Is In: ‘Healing Our Inner Child: Pathways to Embrace Our Suffering (Episode #10)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/healing-our-inner-child-pathways-to-embrace-our-sufferingThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89‘Looking Deeply: Healing the Inner Child’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/healing-the-inner-childThe Inner Child (short guided meditation)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zauJYihF2fQDharma Talks: ‘Taking Refuge in the Three Jewels’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/taking-refuge-in-the-three-jewels-sr-chan-duc-spring-retreat-2018-05-20John Bradshaw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bradshaw_(author)Sutras: ‘Discourse on Knowing the Better Way to Live Alone’
https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-knowing-the-better-way-to-live-aloneThe Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeingQuotes
“What we have learned in the art of mindful living and the art of love and understanding is that we are ever-changing. We’re constantly changing. The Buddha has said that we cannot bathe in the same river twice. When we bathe in that river, the river is not the same and we are not the same.”
“The Buddha says that suffering is made of non-suffering elements – and that means you have happiness inside.”
“What I’ve learned from my journey is that healing is always a verb.”
“There is no way to healing; healing is the way.”
“Our practice of listening is very important. When we say we have to learn to listen, listen not to respond, but just to listen. Listen to acknowledge, accept, and witness.”
“It’s important to be in the present moment, but it’s also important to have an aspiration to bring into the present moment – not to see in the future, but to see coming alive right now.”
12 December 2025, 7:40 am - 1 hour 48 minutesCultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
This is the recording of our second live public event, which recently took place in London. Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined on stage by special guest Ocean Vuong, Vietnamese American poet, essayist, and novelist.
Their conversation explores the themes of joy, togetherness, and cultivating courage in the face of hardship and suffering; the role of language, narrative, and technology in shaping modern experiences of suffering and joy; intergenerational trauma; and more.
All three share personal experiences and insights about finding meaning and community amidst individual and collective challenges. Ocean recollects the way that, growing up in a community impacted by the opioid crisis, Buddhism and the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh provided solace and a path to understanding suffering, while Brother Phap Huu reflects on his journey to become a Zen Buddhist monk, and the role of kindness, fearlessness, and vulnerability in his practice.
The discussion culminates with a chant offered by Ocean as a message of hope and resilience in the face of adversity.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/Plum Village UK
https://plumvillage.uk/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/Photo credit: Wayne Price
List of resources
Ocean Vuong
https://www.oceanvuong.comBeing with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingW. S. Merwin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._S._MerwinHarry Beecher Stowe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Beecher_StoweTom Brokaw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_BrokawDuḥkha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%E1%B8%A5khaFord Model T
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_TThe Dhammapada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DhammapadaAnaphora
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphora_(rhetoric)Schadenfreude
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude‘Bright Morning Star’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_Morning_Star‘The Five Earth Touchings’
https://plumvillage.org/key-practice-texts/the-five-earth-touchingsQuotes
“When drinking water, remember the source.”
“On the last day of the world / I would want to plant a tree / what for / not for the fruit […] / I want the tree that stands / in the earth for the first time / with the sun already / going down” – from ‘Place’ by W.S. Merwin.
“Being a Vietnamese person in the diaspora, for many of us, the temple or the church or what have you is the place where we hear Vietnamese at the longest unbroken duration. Whereas someone native to Vietnam would hear it all the time. So, to this day, the Vietnamese language, to me, elicits this collective desire to heal and understand suffering. And it’s very specific to the immigrant. It’s what I call a third culture: there’s nothing like it in the homeland; there’s nothing like it in the assimilated American ethos. But there’s this special place that displacement and violence created.”
“In Plum Village, when I first entered, I was 13 years old, and I touched a kind of kindness that I’d never touched before. And I asked myself whether I could be a kind person. I think I’m good; I think I’m going to have a career of offering smiles.”
“I invite us, as a collective, to invoke this peace that we can bring in our hearts and into the world at this moment. Body, speech, and mind in perfect oneness. I send my heart along with the sound of this bell. May the hearers awaken from forgetfulness and transcend the path of anxiety and sorrow.”
“Just a smile can save someone’s life.”
“Technology was supposed to bring us together. This is the promise of the Enlightenment. But it’s interesting that all technological movements or renaissances are controlled by the wealthy and the elites. So what I’m interested in, as a writer, as a teacher, is that so much of our world is about material resources and narrative. And this is why I tell my students, ‘They shame you for being a poet, for being a writer: “Oh, you’re doing this liberal arts, naval-gazing, decadent thing, dreaming”’ – but the politicians and the elites are poets too. The greatest political speech is the anaphora. Walt Whitman used it as a catalog, but you hear it: ‘We will heal the working class, we will heal the great divide, I will solve, we will heal this country’s heart, we will heal the middle class.’ And that’s why the anaphora is so useful: because it doesn’t have to explain itself.”
“All those in power are also poets. They’re manipulating meaning, but for votes, for profit, for power, towards fascism. And no wonder the system is designed to make you ashamed to be an artist. It’s so interesting, isn’t it, that, in the art world, we’re often asked to be humble, to be grateful for a seat at the table; to perform humility. And I think humility is good; as a Buddhist, I believe in it, but there is a discrepancy here: we never tell people on Wall Street to be humble. You never hear someone say, ‘You know what, we killed it last quarter, so let’s tone it down and be grateful that we have a seat at the economic table.’”
“Kindness is more difficult now than ever because I think kindness is something that is deeply dependent on our proximity to suffering. It’s harder for us to comprehend suffering, now. Schadenfreude is in our hands and it’s always easier to see. We’ve normalized suffering so much that we’ve been disassociated from it.”
“We speak about inclusiveness and equanimity in Buddhism, but we’re not equal. Some of us are born in places where we have more privileges: in a particular race, in a particular situation, in a particular year. But what is equal is, as human beings, we’re all going to grow old, we’re all going to get sick, we’re all going to have to let go of what we think is permanent. And we’re going to learn to live deeply in the present moment.”
“Sadness becomes not just a feeling, but knowledge. So think about sadness as knowledge, as potential, and that anger even has an aftermath. And you realize that the aftermath of anger is care.”
“The big trouble with masculinity is that we are not given the ability or the permission to feel and be vulnerable – but we are encouraged to have absolute agency. It’s incredible. It’s a perfect storm of violence: ‘Don’t feel, don’t interrogate, and don’t be vulnerable. But, meanwhile, go get ‘em, buddy.’”
“Under our greatest fear is our greatest strength.”
“Camus says that writing itself is optimism, because it’s suffering shared. Even if you write about the darkest things, it is optimistic because someone else will recognize it. And recognition is a democratic ideal, because it means that one feeling could then be taken and collaborated with.”
“It’s really hard to convince people to go to war, historically. You need a lot of text, you need a lot of airwaves, you need a lot of speeches to convince people to go to war – but it’s very easy to convince people to stop war. Very easy for people to stop armament. Difficult for folks who are in control to keep it up, but if you ask the general population, ‘Do you want peace?’, it’s quick. So that gives me a little hope.”
“In fast food is a kind of sinister beauty, because it’s an industrialized promise of absolute replication of fulfillment – and yet it’s a kind of poison as well. It’s like the ultimate democratic ideal, sadly: we can’t have equality, income equality, or healthcare, but we can all eat McDonald’s French fries, and, whether you’re a billionaire or a houseless person, it will taste the same. Likewise with Coca-Cola, etc. In a way it’s the sinister capaciousness of the American dream: you can all feel the same thing while you’re all slowly dying.”
16 October 2025, 10:00 pm - 1 hour 27 minutesSilence (Episode #94)
Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino explore the importance of silence and its role in personal transformation and spiritual practice.
They further discuss noble silence in the Plum Village tradition – a fundamental practice that allows for deep reflection, self-awareness, and connection with the present moment; silence as a space that enables practitioners to listen deeply; the challenges of silence; the contrast between the mainstream emphasis on productivity, noise, and external validation, and the Buddhist approach of valuing stillness, presence, and inner listening as a path to true well-being and happiness; silence as a means to engage more deeply with life, rather than as an escape; embodied listening; and more.
The episode concludes with an invitation to take time for silent reflection and to explore the transformative power of silence in our lives.
Enjoy!
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/List of resources
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingBeing with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/Buddha Path
https://buddhapath.com‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-villageBrother Spirit
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linhBrother Phap Ung
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ung‘Three Resources Explaining the Plum Village Tradition of Lazy Days’
https://plumvillage.app/three-resources-explaining-the-plum-village-tradition-of-lazy-days/Tao Te Ching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_ChingBimbisara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BimbisaraDevadatta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DevadattaQuotes
“When we learn to allow ourselves to be in silence, the silence becomes delicious because it gives us an immense feeling of spaciousness. But silence is also very scary if we are not trained in it – scary because we get to see our restlessness.”
“The silence that we are learning to cultivate is the stillness that we all need.”
“When we engage with the world, we don’t know how to be silent. That is not engaged Buddhism. That is not applied Buddhism. So the middle way is very important. Silence is not to suppress or to bypass what is going on; in our practice, there’s a space and time for everything.”
“Silence allows us spaces of deep reflection. Silence is also to hear ourselves.”
“Noble silence is the silence of being present.”
“There’s a lot to learn in silence, and a lot to discover, as well as to celebrate.”
“The silence of listening is an art form and a practice of embodied listening. And that means that we’re not just listening with our minds, but that we need to learn to listen with our whole body.”
“We’re not here trying to gain more to enhance our ‘label’; actually, Zen is about seeing our label and letting it go, in order to see our wholeness. Because our wholeness is not limited to ‘I am a monk’, ‘I am a journalist’, ‘I am a coach’, ‘I am a business leader’, ‘I am my technician’. We’re so much more than this.”
“Learn to let go. That’s the hardest practice.”
“A lotus to you, a Buddha to be.”
“Don’t just do something, sit there.”
“There’s nothing to learn, but there is a lot to unlearn. Because, actually, when we strip away all the fears, judgments, and sufferings, home is already there. It’s already present, it’s never gone away; we just traveled a long way from it.”
“So much of life is about feeling safe, and about knowing that we’re not on our own and that we are going to be supported.”
“Colors blind the eye. Sounds deafen the ears. Flavors numb the taste. Thoughts weaken the mind. Desires wither the heart. The Master observes the world, but trusts his inner vision. He allows things to come and go. His heart is as open as the sky” – from the Tao Te Ching, credited to Lao Tzu.
“There is no way to happiness; happiness is the way.”
2 October 2025, 10:00 pm - More Episodes? Get the App