For this bonus episode, we’re sharing a favorite from No Small Endeavor, hosted by Lee C. Camp, a podcast exploring what it means to live a good life. Lee sat down with Real Organic Project co-director Linley Dixon to talk about the path that took her from academia into farming and activism, and why healthy soil became central to the way she thinks about food, community, and human flourishing. Linley also shares the story behind the Real Organic Project and why protecting the meaning of organic requires farmers and eaters to keep asking difficult questions about the food system.

We hope you enjoy A Good Life Grows in Healthy Soil.

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Brightstocking. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

301: Frank Ashwood has devoted his career to creatures most of us never notice: springtails, mites, earthworms, and the enormous community of life beneath the soil surface. That hidden world is not incidental to agriculture - it's required! Soil life is what helps turn organic matter into fertile soil and keeps nutrients moving through a living food web to help grow our food, medicine and vital wildlife habitat. Frank explains what happens when those relationships are repeatedly disrupted and why protecting soil biodiversity may be every bit as urgent as protecting the life on Earth we can see.

https://realorganicproject.org/frank-ashwood-world-beneath-our-feet

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Brightstocking. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

300: Michael Grunwald and Tim Bowles agree that agriculture has an enormous environmental footprint; they disagree about what to do about it. Grunwald makes the case that producing more food per acre is necessary to prevent agriculture from consuming even more land. Bowles counters that the evidence for "land sparing" is far less certain, and argues for agroecology as a way to rethink productivity itself. Moderated by Linley Dixon at Churchtown Dairy, this in-person debate explores yield, technology, political power, and whether feeding the future requires us to ask a much broader question than simply how much food we can produce per acre.

https://realorganicproject.org/tim-bowles-michael-grunwald-can-we-feed-the-planet

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Brightstocking. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

299: Lynn Clarkson has been buying and selling organic grain since the early days of the market, and he has watched imported supply reshape the business. He believes that too much of that trade depends on certification systems that are difficult to enforce. The result, he says, is a market where fraudulent imports can undercut American organic farmers even when domestic production is financially attractive. Clarkson makes the case for rebuilding a stronger U.S. supply chain based on trust, transparency, and real enforcement.

https://realorganicproject.org/lynn-clarkson-winning-back-us-organic-grain-market

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Brightstocking. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

298: Soil scientist Will Brinton has spent much of his career helping farmers understand what is happening beneath their feet. Over time, that work has led him to question the mechanistic way modern agriculture often approaches living systems. Will believes that reductionist science is valuable for measuring individual parts, but becomes limiting when those measurements are mistaken for the whole. From soil testing to nutrient-density claims, he urges farmers to resist universal prescriptions and instead pay attention to the ecology of their own place. His message is simple but demanding: nature is not a machine, and farming well requires learning how to work with what a landscape is already expressing.

https://realorganicproject.org/will-brinton-let-the-land-express-itself

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

297: Kendra Klein, senior scientist at Friends of the Earth, has spent years investigating the health and environmental consequences of pesticide-dependent agriculture. She argues that the influence of pesticide companies reaches far beyond the chemicals themselves; they actively shape federal policy, as well as our commonly held belief that toxic inputs are necessary if we want to feed the world. Kendra also takes a close look at the rise of regenerative agriculture and explains why she worries that the term is being used to rebrand conventional farming rather than to transform it.

https://realorganicproject.org/kendra-klein-pesticides-power-future-of-organic The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

296: László Barabási has spent much of his career studying complex systems, from cells to social networks. This lifelong body of work eventually led him to ask a simple question: what is food actually made of? While nutrition science has identified the components we need for energy and survival, László’s lab has documented roughly 135,000 other molecules in food that sit largely outside the traditional nutritional picture. He believes that network science could eventually help us understand these molecules and food in general (including food-related diseases) with far greater precision.

https://realorganicproject.org/laszlo-barabasi-nutritional-dark-matter-in-our-food The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

295: Chuck Benbrook returns with a close look at several legal battles involving Driscoll’s and what they may tell us about the enormous influence of the country’s dominant berry companies. He discusses pesticide concerns around schools and farm communities, allegations raised by a former company agronomist, Driscoll’s lawsuit against the food-finding platform Localize, and another legal challenge to the company’s marketing claims brought forth by Beyond Pesticides. He argues that the berry industry already knows how to reduce pesticide risks and expand organic production; the harder question is whether they will ever choose to do it.

https://realorganicproject.org/chuck-benbrook-what-driscolls-lawsuits-reveal The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

294: Paul Hawken challenges the assumption that industrial agriculture is necessary to feed a growing world. His starting point is the land itself: if chemical farming has contributed to degraded soils, desertification, declining biodiversity, and increasingly fragile food systems, concentrating even more production into that model is hardly a solution. Paul argues instead for restoring life to damaged landscapes and paying much closer attention to the relationship between soil, water, food, and climate. https://realorganicproject.org/paul-hawken-can-chemical-agriculture-feed-world The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

293: Author and agroecologist Liz Carlisle has spent years documenting farmers who are building food systems around diversity, resilience, and cooperation rather than extraction. She challenges the idea that we must intensify industrial agriculture in some places in order to “save” nature somewhere else, pointing instead to thousands of years of human history in which people have grown food as part of functioning ecosystems. Liz offers a hopeful picture of what becomes possible when we design agriculture around place.

https://realorganicproject.org/liz-carlisle-land-sharing-how-we-feed-the-future

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

292: Congresswoman Chellie Pingree has spent years working at the intersection of farming, food, health, and federal policy. She sees growing concern about pesticides and ultra-processed foods coming from people across the political spectrum, creating a rare opportunity for alliances that did not exist before. But turning that agreement into policy means confronting powerful agricultural and chemical interests, rebuilding support for small and mid-sized farms, and deciding what role government should play in protecting eaters. Congresswoman Pingree also challenges the growing enthusiasm for loosely defined “regenerative” agriculture, arguing that without meaningful standards it can easily be co-opted by the same industrial system that organic was created to change.

https://realorganicproject.org/chellie-pingree-can-healthy-food-bring-left-right-together

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠