Ungrafted is a podcast about wine, humanity, and the planet. Join Icy Liu in a series of conversations with scientists, winemakers, and industry professionals who are dedicated to pushing deeper into biodiversity, regenerative agriculture, reducing the carbon footprint of wine, increasing diversity in the wine business and more. Instagram: @ungraftedpodcast Website: www.ungraftedpodcast.com
Today I speak with François de Nicolay from Domaine Chandon de Briailles in Savigny-les-Beaune, Burgundy. The 14 hectare biodynamic domaine started experimenting with spraying with skim milk instead of sulfur against powdery mildew in 2013. Powdery mildew (oidium in French) is a major fungal disease that affects vitis vinifera worldwide by decreasing grape quality and yield.
Francois talks about how milk works as a preventative and curative measure, as well its advantages and disadvantages.
@chandon.de.briailles
Brian McClintic is an ex Master Sommelier who worked at the Little Nell in Aspen and starred in the SOMM documentary films. Brian launched Viticole Wine in 2016, a wine club for which he collaborates with organic wine and cider producers around the world on custom bottlings.
Today I speak with Brian about fermented beverages of the future, including multiple fruit ferments and herbal infusions. We also chat about regenerative agriculture, racism, and how to make our lives and businesses more sustainable with glass bottle recycling, homesteading, and B Corp certification.
Instagram @brianbmcclintic @viticolewine
Today I speak with Carlton McCoy MS from the Roots Fund and Demeine Estates about Black representation in the wine industry.
Carlton grew up in southeast Washington DC where wine was not part of his family or culture. After winning the C-CAP (Careers Through Culinary Arts Program) cooking contest, he earned a full scholarship to the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, NY, which kickstarted his wine career. Carlton became a Master Sommelier when he was only 28 years old, and was the second African American to earn the title. To date, there are only 3 Black Master Sommeliers out of 269. He was the Wine Director at The Little Nell in Aspen before becoming President and CEO of Heitz Cellar and Demeine Estates.
Carlton and I discuss the situation of black wine professionals and the importance of mentorship. We also chat about the Roots Fund, which provides wine education, mentorship, and job opportunities for people of color.
To learn more about the Roots Fund founded by Carlton McCoy, Tahiirah Habibi, and Ikimi Dubose, please visit www.rootsfund.com
Instagram: @carltonmccoy @rootsfund @sippingsocialite @thehuesociety
Today I speak with Olivier Lamy of Domaine Hubert Lamy in Saint Aubin, Burgundy. Olivier is one of Burgundy’s cult winemakers and a pioneer in the return to high density plantings.
Olivier discusses the history of plantations in Burgundy and Champagne, the practical choices that led to a lowering of the vine densities after phylloxera, and how his vines yield better quality grapes and perform better in warmer vintages.
Photo by: Gretchen Greer
I speak with Steve Matthiasson, vineyard consultant and owner of Matthiasson Vineyards in Napa, about water conservation in the vineyard.
Steve gives an overview of Napa’s climate and how farming practices have changed over the last 20 years. He cautions that drought cycles are more extreme and that all indicators show that there will be less water in the future. He discusses farming practices that help conserve water including planting cover crops, increasing soil organic matter, tilling differently, changing row orientations, and using different trellising systems and deeper rooted rootstocks. It turns out that farming practices that conserve water are also good for the soil.
Steve also talks about how certain wine styles require more irrigation, and that there is an aspect to sustainability on the consumer side as well.
Photo Credit: Elaine Chukan Brown
Instagram: matthiasson_wine
Website: matthiasson.com
I speak with Christina Rasmussen and Daniela Pillhofer, cofounders of Little Wine about carbon neutral shipping. Little Wine is an online wine content platform focused on organic plus and climate positive growers. Little Wine also has an online bottle shop and wine club, with carbon neutral shipping. Since their founding in April 2020, they have offset 100+ tonnes of CO2 to date. According to German nonprofit Atmosfair, that’s around 100 round trip flights from London to New York City.
Christina and Daniela talk how they chose EcoCart and a water purification project in Cambodia for their carbon neutral shipping program, where they have prevented 25,000 trees from being chopped down to date. We also talk about the future of wine distribution, and how they are inspired by fashion brand Organic Basics and Jancis Robinson.
Instagram: @littlewine.co @winecarbonara @christinarasmussen_
Website: https://littlewine.co/
Today I interview Cristiana Tiberio from Agricola Tiberio in Abruzzo about biotypes. Cristiana discusses the difference between biotypes and clones. She also shares her journey identifying biotypes in her vineyard, including the Fonte Canale biotype of Trebbiano Abruzzese and 4 distinct biotypes of Montelpucinao d’Abruzzo which behave differently in the vines and the cellar.
Instagram: @cristianatiberio
Today, I chat with Elaine Chukan Brown about Indigenous representation in the wine industry.
Elaine is an Alaskan Native, from the Inupiaq-Unangan-Sugpiaq tribes. She started fishing commercially when she was nine years old and worked in various industries before starting her wine career. Elaine is a wine educator and writer. She is the American wine specialist at JancisRobinson.com and has contributed to the 4th edition of the Oxford Companion to Wine and the 8th edition of the World Atlas of Wine. She was voted IWSC Wine Communicator of the Year in 2020.
We discuss the history of Indigenous Americans and alcohol, misguided stereotypes, cultural appropriation, and what it means to be an Indigenous-owned winery.
Photo by Elaine, with her grandmother, an Alaskan native from the Inupiaq-Yupik tribes.
Instagram: @hawk_wakawaka
We conclude Regenuary with our interview with Mimi Casteel. Mimi is one of the preeminent voices for regenerative agriculture and no till, which she practices at Hope Well Vineyard in Eola-Amity Hills, Oregon.
Mimi explains the advantages and disadvantages of tilling, one of which is the release of carbon into the atmosphere, contributing to climate change. She addresses what she believes are necessary changes to farming subsidies and viticultural regulations if we are to achieve a sustainable future.
Instagram: @mimicasteel
Website: hopewellwine.com
Photo by: Aubrie Legault
We continue our celebration of Regenuary with our interview with Nigel Greening, proprietor of Felton Road in Central Otago, New Zealand. Nigel discusses the role of animals in the vines and the winery’s ecosystem.
Nigel explains the difference between sheep (which are grazers) versus goats (which are browsers) in managing their wild rose population. While some believe the best way to restore land is by removing grazing animals, Nigel believes the contrary--their highland cattle has helped restore soil fertility and encourage grass growth. He also shares their experience with helping raise New Zealand endangered native falcons and managing birds, rabbits and other creatures in the vines.
Photo: The Family of Twelve
Today, we celebrate #Regenuary with Jordan Lonborg, viticulturist of Tablas Creek. Tablas Creek farms 120 acres of Rhone varieties in Paso Robles, California. They were certified organic in 2003. They have been farming biodynamically since 2010, and received their biodynamic certification in 2017. They are the first Regenerative Organic Certified (ROC) winery by the Regenerative Organic Alliance, established in 2017. The 3 main pillars of the ROC include soil health, animal welfare, and farmworker fairness. ROC aims to sequester carbon in the soils that would otherwise be released in the atmosphere, and helps combat climate change. ROC requires minimal irrigation with the idea that healthy soils need less water.
Jordan and I talk about these 3 pillars, including regenerative farming, climate change, tilling, carbon sequestration, cover crops, mob grazing, bees, compost and biochar, and lastly, animal and worker welfare.
Instagram: @tablascreek
Website: tablascreek.com
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