Today's guest is Warren kohl, a fifth generation member and former “worker” (or minister) in the 2x2’s, the group that Meagan grew up in. Warren shares how devout he was to the group at a very young age, having your entire life controlled, and how utter heartbreak in high school led him to celibacy and a deeper commitment to the group.

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Psychologist, trauma bond expert, and author of Run Like Hell: A Therapist's Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds, Nadine Macaluso share about her relationship with ex-husband Jordan Belfort (aka The Wolf of Wall Street) and how it led her to become a therapist with a focus on trauma bonds. They also discuss "mind mapping", intermittent reinforcement, the difference between intensity and intimacy, the three phases of trauma bonds and how violence can play into them, why Nadine uses the term "pathological lover" instead of narcissist, how to tell if you're currently in a trauma bond, and green flags that are the sign of a healthy relationship.

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In part two with Zoe and Lilly, survivors of Midwest Academy, one of the abusive troubled teen programs in the same organization that was spotlighted in the docuseries The Program: Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping, we dig deeper into Lily’s experience. She’ll tell us how she was in solitary confinement for two months, and how her reaction was to rebel in any way she could. We’ll get into how they both left, and how no one believed them for years - in some cases, up until just last month - how this was and still is a multi-billion dollar industry, and where they’re both at in their healing journey.

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Survivors of the infamous WWASP schools, Zoe & Lillian, share about their experiences being forced to join Ivy Ridge, Midwest Academy, and Casa by the Sea; All schools featured in the current Netflix docudrama, The Program: Cons, Cults, and Kidnapping. Lola & Meagan dig into how these programs were marketed to parents, the dramatic ways Zoe & Lillian were brought to the facilities as teenagers, the levels inside the program that were impossible to climb, how they could only communicate with their eyes, and how they were kept from their families.

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In part two with former LuLaRoe seller, Roberta Blevins, they discuss everything about LuLaRoe's founder DeAnne Brady and her family, the mother figure role DeAnne provided in Roberta's life, dealing with toxic positivity, and a thorough list of MLM red flags to look out for. Plus, how Roberta finally realized that she was in a cult and how starting her own podcast helped with her recovery.

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In part one with former LuLaRoe seller and Life After MLM podcast host, Roberta Blevins, she'll share how she first got involved in MLMS, what LuLaRoe was like, what the deal was with the wet smelly leggings, and what made realize that she did not want to be a part of MLM life anymore. We'll discuss how MLMs make good people act badly, what "huns" and "megahuns" are, and where the line is between incompetence and knowingly engaging in harmful practices. 

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This week, Lola and Meagan's guests are... Lola and Meagan! They talk about the cult of seeing everything as a cult, discussing how things that might seem a little culty don’t necessarily inherently mean that a group IS a cult. They’ll discuss political polarization, online miscommunication, group dynamics that happen in ALL groups, and the difference between a dickhead and a cult leader--with a few tangents in between.

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In part two of this listener story with Operation Light Force survivor, Katelyn Hlavaty, Lola and Meagan unpack how the leader's bogus healing protocol, which involved digging into old trauma, eventually led to Satanic Ritual Abuse. Katelyn shares how isolation from her family and a period of spontaneous remission from her bout Crohn's disease deepened her faith in the group, leading her to become a public facing spokesperson telling thousands of people that she was healed while secretly throwing up backstage. They also get into cold reading, the danger of religious leaders preventing their followers from getting needed medical care, and how Katelyn finally got out and started over.

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In part one of this wild listener story, Katelyn Hlavaty chats with Lola and Meagan about her experience in the evangelical healing ministry group, Operation Light Force. Katelyn shares how she joined the group when she was isolated and struggling with Crohn's disease, and how the group's promises of community, God, and literal physical healing seemed like the answer in her moment of vulnerability. They dig into how the leader, Richard, began doing counseling sessions with Katelyn, and how Richard taught his followers that any physical ailment they experienced could be the result of sin, trauma, or even Satan. In any case, the goalpost was always moving... and Richard was the one with the answers.

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Sara Gorman, public health expert, CEO & founder of Critica, and author of Denying to the Grave: Why We Ignore the Facts That Will Save Us, joins Lola and Meagan to discuss the importance of the scientific method, why presenting evidence can feel like an attack, common debunked beliefs that persist in American culture, and the role that media plays in telling stories that stoke fear instead of critical thinking. They also talk about the factors that lead people to ignore evidence, how charismatic leaders play a large role in science denial, signs that a person is not coming from a place of expertise, and how to navigate the healthcare system when it fails people. 

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Former Sea Org member and niece of Scientology leader David Miscavige, Jenna Miscavige, talks about leaving "The Ranch" in order to join the Sea Org, getting involved in higher level management, how she barely knew her own parents, the constant level of paranoia she saw from everyone at all levels, what it was like to date within the Sea Org, how she threatened to kill herself to get her partner out of highly controlled isolation, the potential whereabouts of her Aunt Shelly, how a trip to Australia served as the catalyst for her to leave, and was threatened with family separation and followed by private investigators.

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